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NetEnt's slot reels

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Balthazar, Jun 22, 2013.

    Jun 22, 2013
  1. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    Two things that I've noticed:

    -On Starburst when a star lands, before it expands, the top (or bottom) symbols almost always match the symbols of one of the reels next to it (like a mirror effect, most often the higher paying symbols).
    Example: reel 1 is bar-bar-bar, reel 2 is a star-bar-bar, reel 3 is blue-blue-blue.

    -On DoA's free spins, the time that a wild "stops" just behind a wild that is already sticky is highly disproportionate. Just on my last bonus round, it happend 3 times and I had only 2 sticky's.

    These things shouldn't happen constantly on random reel stops. Add Space Wars and its suspicious reels and it makes me wonder about how NetEnt's slots are working. I'd hate to start questioning their randomness.
     
  2. Jun 22, 2013
  3. De Beuker

    De Beuker Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Production
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Never noticed the Starburst thing, the reels spin too fast for me to see.

    But you're right about DOA, I've noticed that too, it lands behind one already there waaay too often.

    Now whats really weird is, Microgamings Giant Panda also has sticky wilds in free spins, and you'll see the exact same thing happen there too.:what:

    I dont have a clue...
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jun 22, 2013
  5. aceking123

    aceking123 Ueber Meister CAG PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    chippy
    Location:
    uk
    easy answer is its not random at all , not going into it but 99% sure those free spins & lazy programming are at fault for this , there is a few more that do this aswell )

    if i said to you that i would get two features within 1o spins at hit the same ammount you would thinking well what are the odds of that happening it happens far to much m answer is there are set pools within free spins hence to why this would be the outcome , maybe my m8 dunover can help here )
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  6. Jun 22, 2013
  7. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    It's a while since I've played Netent's slots but I remember when I was hammering them at Redbet every week I noticed several occurrences of seeing stuff that simply didn't exist on the reels in their normal state.

    I didn't make any big deal out of it because I was already of the opinion that the reels on video slots are fake, although I did pick up on the WMS slots because they're so ridiculously blatant about it.

    KK did once say that his explanation is the reels are real but when they come to the stop position they sort of 'snap' to the correct bit on the reelstrip which can lead to some of the weird stuff you see.

    But when it comes to Netent, surely we need to look no further than Elements to conclude they're not real reels? The chance for getting three winning spins and then nothing on the fourth (which would trigger the feature) are obviously not random.

    Doesn't mean the games aren't fair and random as long as the RNG is doing its job properly for the round result, but no way are the reels on their slots real IMO.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jun 22, 2013
  9. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    I know but it wouldn't explain why wilds tend to land behind another sticky. They clearly land there after the "snap" (aka spinning animation), and you can see them moving at the beginning of the following spin. They are "physically" there (for a lack of a better term) .


    Then why are they using different sets of reels for bonus rounds? That wouldn't be necessary if the reels were fake would it? Why did Enzo imply that the reels are real and the RNG stops them at random positions (and that all major softwares should work like that?) Why were KK and others able to calculate the RTP of some slots just by stripping the reels?

    See? That's not as clear cut as it sounds.
     
  10. Jun 22, 2013
  11. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    I honestly don't know Balth, and the sad case of the fact is no one from Netent is going to tell us - so all we have is our own speculation.

    I guess they use different reels for free spins on DoA to keep the RTP in check, maybe if they used the normal reels then they'd tend to pay too much?

    The only official input we've had on this is from Enzo, which is a shameful state of affairs really. Maybe Chris from Galewind could tell us how their software works, as he's generally a forthcoming and open chap.

    Enzo has indeed explicitly stated that the free spins on 3Dice's slot are 'natural' spins, I asked him in chat the other night about Fortune Falls and he said the free spins aren't controlled at all, there's nothing to stop five wilds dropping in on the shittiest three scatters trigger awarding 3 spins at 2x pay, which is an 800x stake win.

    Do other softwares work in the same way? We don't know, is the answer.
     
  12. Jun 22, 2013
  13. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    That's indeed what logic tells us, but that's only true if the reels are real and the stops are random. Otherwise they could use the base game set of reels and stop them wherever they should pay according to the RNG.

    Problem is, if the reels are real and the stops are legit then why are they blatantly acting like they aren't?

    If you ever go back to NetEnt, let us know how you feel about the randomness. I remember in one of your videos you told us that NetEnt slots feel truely random, unlike Microgaming. I'm not so sure about that now for some reasons. After playing a shitload of spins on Starburst (and I know you have done more), I find that it has a very strong "feeding and paying" pattern unlike any other slot. Now if it has fake reels on top of that, it's enough to start wondering what's going on.

    PS: I'm not hating on NetEnt and I'm usually no tinfoil hat, but some strange stuff is happening there.
     
  14. Jun 22, 2013
  15. lotusch

    lotusch Megaways Slots, as useless as salt in your coffee webby PABaccred mm2

    Occupation:
    Marketing Assistant
    Location:
    Dún Dealgan
    Hi Balth,I play this slot quite often but I have never noticed.
    Playing it as we speak so I will have a look if I can see the same pattern happening.

    But for me it is simple,fake or real reels,random stops or not,as long as the outcome remains fair I am fine with this.
    I mean the slot should stick to it's average payout ratio,no matter how the outcome of a spin is generated. :cool:

    Now I wonder,did anyone ever win like BIG on this slot because although I like the slot I never won really big on it.
    Also when 1 star lands,it very few times gives additional stars so payout stays to a minimum.

    I play similar slots like Starburst on other casino's and they tend to pay the extra expanding scatters more often like Power Stars,a Novomatic slot.
    [​IMG]


    Mark. :thumbsup:
     
  16. Jun 22, 2013
  17. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    One thing......I just don't think it is possible to "feel" randomness.
     
  18. Jun 22, 2013
  19. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Maybe people will now take my side on this, even Balt is now acknowledging the evidence which in a post in another thread recently he disagreed with me about. (I stated Netent do what MG do etc..)

    Right - on a video slot it is absolutely unnecessary to operate 5 reel stops. You can simply choose your values and amount of them (to make variance) and then their total in the pot/100% to set the TRTP.

    Then all you need is some crummy characters and letters/numbers to decorate the pseudo reels with. The reel maps will of course correspond to the values you have chosen and chucked in the pot, like for example TSII with many 9's and 10's on the reels this of course reflects their status as a high-frequency win in the RN pool.

    Now, because you've done the reel maps correctly, if you reverse engineer them like some have done for many slots before, they WILL exactly match paytable plus exact TRTP and chances of any win attainable in that IF you stopped the 5 reels individually and randomly (like on a mechanical land-based slot).

    So, the player basically selects a RN value, and the graphics ex post facto reflect this outcome. 2 processes instead of 5 - quicker, smoother and simpler for the software provider.

    Now, when it comes to bonus rounds, we know (especially from kktmd's research) that the bonus will be accountable for a set percentage of the game's TRTP. Therefore, example Wild Rockets, the reels are changed to reflect the increased likelihood of wins that will be paid over time via the bonus rounds. As Chopley says 'gimped' reels - that's exactly how they appear. We know Hitman spins the wild on reels 1,5 when you can't get it. A simple graphics error, NOT affecting RTP or randomness.

    3dice have proprietary software which may be different, but we know (or I do) that MG do it, WMS definitely do and now it seems Netent are suspected of it. It wouldn't surprise me if most software does it - it means little; slots spins are still random, bonus round spins are still random and you still get the TRTP over time as described. The only thing you sometimes notice is bizarre behaviour of the pseudo-reels in the graphics. What the hell?
     
    1 person likes this.

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