Netent not random?

[SubzeroWins]

Today I was playing gonzos quest at 2 different sites. On 1 site i had a streak going, and when i switched to the other suddenly all spins were dead ones. So I switched back and instantly the streak continued. I tried another switch just to be certain and sure enough, as soon as i went back to my favourite casino the streak picked up again. If every spin is suppose to be random and equal chance, how can this happen? The difference was just way too obvious (and for 100's of spins long) for it to be expained with variance etc. I do believe that their slots pay out according to the percentages, but sometimes it feels like its not random at all.

 

[dunover]

Today I was playing gonzos quest at 2 different sites. On 1 site i had a streak going, and when i switched to the other suddenly all spins were dead ones. So I switched back and instantly the streak continued. I tried another switch just to be certain and sure enough, as soon as i went back to my favourite casino the streak picked up again. If every spin is suppose to be random and equal chance, how can this happen? The difference was just way too obvious (and for 100's of spins long) for it to be expained with variance etc.

Of course they're random - IF you had had streaks on BOTH sites at once or neither, it would be just the same. With variance the peaks and troughs are different, i.e. very dramatic and sharp on HV slots and gentler curves on LV slots. Plus the play on the losing site psychologically would seem VERY bad if you had just quit a site playing VERY good. 100's of spins long you said - these slots make their TRTP over millions of spins, not a few hundred or thousand. I would suggest that the 'good' site will go on a trough soon and the bad site start a peak - but I can't be sure as they are RANDOM.
Please can this spate of 'questionable randomness' posts stop, as I am getting very low on stock and doubt if I can guarantee any hats being delivered outside the UK for Christmas delivery.

 

[SubzeroWins]

Of course they're random - IF you had had streaks on BOTH sites at once or neither, it would be just the same. With variance the peaks and troughs are different, i.e. very dramatic and sharp on HV slots and gentler curves on LV slots. Plus the play on the losing site psychologically would seem VERY bad if you had just quit a site playing VERY good. 100's of spins long you said - these slots make their TRTP over millions of spins, not a few hundred or thousand. I would suggest that the 'good' site will go on a trough soon and the bad site start a peak - but I can't be sure as they are RANDOM.
Please can this spate of 'questionable randomness' posts stop, as I am getting very low on stock and doubt if I can guarantee any hats being delivered outside the UK for Christmas delivery.

I agree with most of what you're saying. Like you said, eventually the good one should stop paying and the bad one would heat up. But if the slots were truly random that shouldnt take a very long time right? Say you hit 1 in 50 spins something good, and it hits 50 times on the left slot and zero times on the right. Id say thats highly unlikely, you would expect even in an extreme situation to hit like once or twice on the bad slot

In a random situation the odds of landing a good hit on one of two copies of the same slot first should be 0,5 correct? So the odds of it falling on the same side every time would be 0,5^50. Thats not a lot...

 

[dionysus]

but then, in your scenario, if it did that, you'd discern a pattern, ergo, not random.
random, means, well, you can't expect anything

 

[zreb]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Like you said, eventually the good one should stop paying and the bad one would heat up. But if the slots were truly random that shouldnt take a very long time right? Say you hit 1 in 50 spins something good, and it hits 50 times on the left slot and zero times on the right. Id say thats highly unlikely, you would expect even in an extreme situation to hit like once or twice on the bad slot

It's not exactly that one slot would "stop paying" or the other would "heat up," each spin is individual. These are just ways you can describe a lucky or unlucky trend AFTER it has happened, but they can still potentially be misleading.

Don't underestimate variance. It can take an extremely long time for things to average out.

Your example doesn't really make sense. The part you point out as unlikely, going 0 for 50 on bet with a 1/50 chance is extremely common. Going 50 for 50 on a bet with a 1/50 chance has never happened to anyone, ever. Whatever trend you saw is not nearly as rare as you think. Long story short, you're just underestimating the effect of variance.

 

[SubzeroWins]

It's not exactly that one slot would "stop paying" or the other would "heat up," each spin is individual. These are just ways you can describe a lucky or unlucky trend AFTER it has happened, but they can still potentially be misleading.

Don't underestimate variance. It can take an extremely long time for things to average out.

Your example doesn't really make sense. The part you point out as unlikely, going 0 for 50 on bet with a 1/50 chance is extremely common. Going 50 for 50 on a bet with a 1/50 chance has never happened to anyone, ever. Whatever trend you saw is not nearly as rare as you think. Long story short, you're just underestimating the effect of variance.

I think you didnt understand. i ment hitting 0 spins untill the other slot reaches 50, rather than hitting 0/50 in an x amount of spins

 

[zreb]

I think you didnt understand. i ment hitting 0 spins untill the other slot reaches 50, rather than hitting 0/50 in an x amount of spins

Yes, that would be absurdly rare. But it also didn't happen. Hitting something like 10 features on one slot before hitting any on the other, playing both an equal number of spins, is also rare, but it's possible. Like 1/1000, but it happens.

Another thing to note, is that is a game is truly random, bizarre runs will happen to a few people. Someone out there has to win the progressive jackpots, right? For each person who hits one of those, countless people will see something like red hitting fifteen times in a row, weird alternating patterns, all kinds of crazy stuff. Whatever happened to you is probably a lot more common than you realize, but it's always possible you hit the "bizarre thing happened" jackpot.

 

[Vegasbum]

Just keep playing at the "hot" casino and don't switch

 

[SubzeroWins]

Just keep playing at the "hot" casino and don't switch

I do actually, sometimes a tenner or 20 eur to try other casinos (guts has a great christmas special for 20 eur atm)

 

[gagamel]

I stopped playing IR because I never won anything. Yesterday I gave this slot a last try and whatt happened within 100 spins:
3 bonus rounds within 3 spins and a good win. That`s random at it`s best. Believe us, they are random.
I played 2 weeks ago BJ in a casino in switzerland, I lost 1000 in 30 minutes. I never had such a bad experience before and hope that I will never have it in future. But it can happen all the time.

 

[mrmark21]

Today I was playing gonzos quest at 2 different sites. On 1 site i had a streak going, and when i switched to the other suddenly all spins were dead ones. So I switched back and instantly the streak continued. I tried another switch just to be certain and sure enough, as soon as i went back to my favourite casino the streak picked up again. If every spin is suppose to be random and equal chance, how can this happen? The difference was just way too obvious (and for 100's of spins long) for it to be expained with variance etc. I do believe that their slots pay out according to the percentages, but sometimes it feels like its not random at all.

I can see where your coming from I can tell you that allot of it is based on perception. I'm one of those people that think everything's rigged. I'm a heavy gamer and whenever I cant pass a level on a video game I'll blame the video game. Once I was so convinced that a game had a fault because I couldn't pass the level I took it back to the shop and the store assistant passed the level for me. That was embarrassing. So it's going to take allot more than someone telling me a game is random before I actually believe them. I'm going to need proof that I can see with my own two eyes!

I've pretty much restricted nearly all my slot playing to land based casinos for exactly that reason. That way I don't second guess the slots I know that I just naturally sucked. I would feel allot better playing online if I knew that online casinos were being as heavily regulated as land based casinos. The whole Speilo fiasco didn't do much to back up my confidence.

I still play at 32 Red and a couple of Playtechs. I stay far away from Netent. My advice: Stick to the casino where you have more luck

 

[SubzeroWins]

I stopped playing IR because I never won anything. Yesterday I gave this slot a last try and whatt happened within 100 spins:
3 bonus rounds within 3 spins and a good win. That`s random at it`s best. Believe us, they are random.
I played 2 weeks ago BJ in a casino in switzerland, I lost 1000 in 30 minutes. I never had such a bad experience before and hope that I will never have it in future. But it can happen all the time.

Way to go! altho im not really sure what slot you are referring too

 

[SubzeroWins]

I can see where your coming from I can tell you that allot of it is based on perception. I'm one of those people that think everything's rigged. I'm a heavy gamer and whenever I cant pass a level on a video game I'll blame the video game. Once I was so convinced that a game had a fault because I couldn't pass the level I took it back to the shop and the store assistant passed the level for me. That was embarrassing. So it's going to take allot more than someone telling me a game is random before I actually believe them. I'm going to need proof that I can see with my own two eyes!

I've pretty much restricted nearly all my slot playing to land based casinos for exactly that reason. That way I don't second guess the slots I know that I just naturally sucked. I would feel allot better playing online if I knew that online casinos were being as heavily regulated as land based casinos. The whole Speilo fiasco didn't do much to back up my confidence.

I still play at 32 Red and a couple of Playtechs. I stay far away from Netent. My advice: Stick to the casino where you have more luck

Lol! Im a very passionate gamer as well and your story reminds me of the early days in gaming, when there were no walktroughs and sites like gamefaqs. There was a hotline you could call to and some UBERnerd, who appearently knew every frikkin' thing about every game, would explain on the phone how to progress to the next level, or what buttons to smash to get that insane fatality in mortal kombat

 

[Finn]

Way to go! altho im not really sure what slot you are referring too

If you take your mouse cursor over the abbreviation, it shows what it stands for.

IR = Immortal Romance
BJ = Black Jack

 

[SubzeroWins]

If you take your mouse cursor over the abbreviation, it shows what it stands for.

yea i know but for some reason nothing happens when i go over it

 

[brianmon]

Today I was playing gonzos quest at 2 different sites. On 1 site i had a streak going, and when i switched to the other suddenly all spins were dead ones. So I switched back and instantly the streak continued. I tried another switch just to be certain and sure enough, as soon as i went back to my favourite casino the streak picked up again. If every spin is suppose to be random and equal chance, how can this happen? The difference was just way too obvious (and for 100's of spins long) for it to be expained with variance etc. I do believe that their slots pay out according to the percentages, but sometimes it feels like its not random at all.

Yeah, I often think that about NetEnt slots. Especially with the likes of 'Secret of the Stones', where there can be so many wilds on screen after a spin (often 4 or 5), yet the majority are always in exactly the wrong place, even more so on reels 4 and 5

 

[mrmark21]

Lol! Im a very passionate gamer as well and your story reminds me of the early days in gaming, when there were no walktroughs and sites like gamefaqs. There was a hotline you could call to and some UBERnerd, who appearently knew every frikkin' thing about every game, would explain on the phone how to progress to the next level, or what buttons to smash to get that insane fatality in mortal kombat

Yes that's exactly what I mean! Although sometimes it can be very hard to tell where to look on the walk-through because they are so damn long. I generally use Youtube or IGN these days to find out how to complete a stage of a game. For example I bought Uncharted 3 for PS3 a couple of months ago but I'm still trying to figure out the puzzle at the very start of the game. I'd swear it was rigged so the developers never had to finish the game but I can see it's doable on Youtube. Or Batman Arkham City with the flying part when you are in lava world or something. Sigh! Lol I hate that.

Yeah, I often think that about NetEnt slots. Especially with the likes of 'Secret of the Stones', where there can be so many wilds on screen after a spin (often 4 or 5), yet the majority are always in exactly the wrong place, even more so on reels 4 and 5

I think that's the famous gimped reels at least that's what other members call them. I've noticed the same thing. I don't play Netent anymore.

 

[Balthazar]

I agree with most of what you're saying. Like you said, eventually the good one should stop paying and the bad one would heat up. But if the slots were truly random that shouldnt take a very long time right? Say you hit 1 in 50 spins something good, and it hits 50 times on the left slot and zero times on the right. Id say thats highly unlikely, you would expect even in an extreme situation to hit like once or twice on the bad slot

In a random situation the odds of landing a good hit on one of two copies of the same slot first should be 0,5 correct? So the odds of it falling on the same side every time would be 0,5^50. Thats not a lot...

I have some doubts about NetEnt's true randomness myself, but you shouldn't expect anything from a random slot. If you could, it wouldn't be random. That said, some of their recent slots appear to act similar to compensated slots (ie: Starburst).

 

[SubzeroWins]

I have some doubts about NetEnt's true randomness myself, but you shouldn't expect anything from a random slot. If you could, it wouldn't be random. That said, some of their recent slots appear to act similar to compensated slots (ie: Starburst).

what does compensated mean?

edit: nvm i did a search and found out myself
These machines are known in the gaming trade as "B3", or "compensated" games - "compensated" meaning that once a win combination is used (paying out a small win or, at the other end of the scale, a jackpot), this combination is removed from the total number of outcome combinations that could be achieved by the random number generator. In short, previous payouts are compensated for and will affect future prospects of winning.

 

[Nate]

FYI

NetEnt uses Pseudo Random Number Generation.

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Itech Labs Certificate

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More info on the PRNG

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Nate

 

[brianmon]

I don't know what's happened to NetEnt slots today. I've been playing them on Casinoluck and just can't lose. I've had bonus features on everything I've played 'creature from the black lagoon' 'Jack hammer' and even 'secret of the stones'. But the best one was this 850x stake