NetEnt has joined the the group of providers offering different RTP settings

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
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Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Yes same for me, but I don't class as a UK player at VS.

Can we nail it down to a territory or territories that get the 'We'll steal some of your winnings booster' when actually logged in?

I tagged @Team.Videoslots earlier to get an explanation because it looks rather chaotic with the two versions. It's not even the same for all in the UK when you read the member posts.

Maybe it is connected to the date of registration. Maybe they are just rolling it out. Who knows. :rolleyes:

Either way, just having that up there is not right. No casino can withhold any part of your winnings. And calling it a Weekend Booster is misleading as it is your own money you won on the slots. Plus, they do not explain if you hit a payout on a spin that is less than your bet, which means you actually do not have a win. Are they taking it from there too?

While they have a clause in the Weekend Booster part that new players consent to have part of their winnings withheld, there is no such mention in the general casino terms, which new players accept when they register. They do not see the Weekend Booster terms. Neither do the General Terms mention that enrolment is automatic, optional or whatever.

Maybe @ternur could give us his legal opinion.

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Oh yeah! Netent Slots are reviewed at Casinomeister - to include their associated casinos! Woo woo!

ternur

Destroying castles in the sky
webby
CAG
mm3
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Location
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I tagged @Team.Videoslots earlier to get an explanation because it looks rather chaotic with the two versions. It's not even the same for all in the UK when you read the member posts.

Maybe it is connected to the date of registration. Maybe they are just rolling it out. Who knows. :rolleyes:

Either way, just having that up there is not right. No casino can withhold any part of your winnings.

While they have a clause in the Weekend Booster part that new players consent to have part of their winnings withheld, there is no such mention in the general casino terms, which new players accept when they register. They do not see the Weekend Booster terms. Neither do the General Terms mention that enrolment is automatic, optional or whatever.

Maybe @ternur could give us his legal opinion.

View attachment 128611

It doesn't look great. I'll think about this more later on (not totally sober atm).
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
I would suggest, here in the UK, it shouldn't be done. It should be opt in, not opt out.
It's along the lines of those scams that used to happen when you bought something from a website, they would have a banner up saying 'save £15 on your next order, click here for the code' you went through signed up, got the voucher, then a month later noticed a direct debit come out for £19.99, as hidden in the terms was a bit saying 'you agree to a 12 month membership of xxxscam charged at £19.99 a month'. That was made illegal and now you have to specifically opt in rather than use an opt out, as they were charging you without opted in consent. I know VS aren't charging anyone as you actually get the money back, but would suggest it's along the same lines.

It's a shame they don't have a rep who would actually explain stuff like this BEFORE it went live, oh wait, they did. Dan.
 

Harry_BKK

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Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
I would suggest, here in the UK, it shouldn't be done. It should be opt in, not opt out.
It's along the lines of those scams that used to happen when you bought something from a website, they would have a banner up saying 'save £15 on your next order, click here for the code' you went through signed up, got the voucher, then a month later noticed a direct debit come out for £19.99, as hidden in the terms was a bit saying 'you agree to a 12 month membership of xxxscam charged at £19.99 a month'. That was made illegal and now you have to specifically opt in rather than use an opt out, as they were charging you without opted in consent. I know VS aren't charging anyone as you actually get the money back, but would suggest it's along the same lines.

It's a shame they don't have a rep who would actually explain stuff like this BEFORE it went live, oh wait, they did. Dan.

I'm an amateur when it comes to legal things but I sure know that anything that impacts your OWN money has to be OPT-IN first and not OPT-OUT. That's how it is in Germany and I would assume EU-wide.

TBH, somehow I think this has been an April fool's joke and somebody forgot to take it down. But it isn't.

Remember how long it took them to take down their advertising about giving back part of their profits and called it "earn 25% cashback" when they still had the original cashback scheme, which was in no way true. While that was plain misleading, this latest change is taking the biscuit if it is true.

I said a long time ago, there is a piece-meal plan they follow and see how far they can go. Reduce rewards, reduce RTPs, increase battle requirements etc etc. and this could well be their next step.
 

bamberfishcake

Senior Member
PABinit
MM
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Location
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Isolation drinking. Days, time of day ... everything comes a blur.

My philosophy: Eat when hungry, sleep when tired, drink when feel like it. :p

Reminds me of a book i read called 'Yojokun - Life Lessons from a Samurai'.

I cant find the actual quote and i lent the book but it was very similar, something like........

'Eat when you are hungry, sleep when tired, relieve when you need'

There was an afterword that said something like 'a stupid man will scoff but a wise man will know what is meant'.
 

dunover

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Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
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In order to meet the market demands and conditions at present, watering down the beer is better than no beer at all? Product shrinkage I think it's called. Remember how your tube of Rolos has gone from 12, 10 9 etc. in order to keep them the same price? If you aren't a big worldwide operation that can subsidize one section of games or jurisdiction with profits from others, this is what you'll get. It's not the casinos trying to rip you off, they're simply trying to keep afloat.
 

ternur

Destroying castles in the sky
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In order to meet the market demands and conditions at present, watering down the beer is better than no beer at all? Product shrinkage I think it's called. Remember how your tube of Rolos has gone from 12, 10 9 etc. in order to keep them the same price? If you aren't a big worldwide operation that can subsidize one section of games or jurisdiction with profits from others, this is what you'll get. It's not the casinos trying to rip you off, they're simply trying to keep afloat.

Hell NO !!!
 

bamberfishcake

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Remember how your tube of Rolos has gone from 12, 10 9 etc. in order to keep them the same price?

I remember them doing that to make more money :)

I appreciate what you are saying about being ripped off but when its not clear there are product changes or things are changed without notification then it feels like the wool is being pulled over your eyes at least.

They didnt put fake rolos in to cover up the ones that were missing.
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
In order to meet the market demands and conditions at present, watering down the beer is better than no beer at all? Product shrinkage I think it's called. Remember how your tube of Rolos has gone from 12, 10 9 etc. in order to keep them the same price? If you aren't a big worldwide operation that can subsidize one section of games or jurisdiction with profits from others, this is what you'll get. It's not the casinos trying to rip you off, they're simply trying to keep afloat.
The difference being when you buy something like that you can tell by looking that the packet is smaller.

Casinos reducing the RTP without notifying anyone is terrible. Seriously, who goes into the help screen of every single game they play, every single time they play it before spinning? LV Bet managed to put a pop up informing players of them reducing the RTP, every casino should do so.

If you have savings in an account paying 4% interest, and the bank reduce it to 2% without informing you, saying well it was displayed on your account, on a page no one ever goes to so you should have known, wouldn't be acceptable, that is more of a comparison to this than a bar of chocolate reducing in size.
 

ternur

Destroying castles in the sky
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To be fair, if you watered down the horrid beer that is Stella/Budweiser, you'd probably end up with something more palatable:puke:

Budweiser is not beer I agree. I like German lagers. They are a like a river of pure joy running through your veins.

Reinheitsgebot FTW!
 

Jono777

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In order to meet the market demands and conditions at present, watering down the beer is better than no beer at all? Product shrinkage I think it's called. Remember how your tube of Rolos has gone from 12, 10 9 etc. in order to keep them the same price? If you aren't a big worldwide operation that can subsidize one section of games or jurisdiction with profits from others, this is what you'll get. It's not the casinos trying to rip you off, they're simply trying to keep afloat.

Sorry mate but there is little defence for lowering RTP, I could possibly forgive and begin to understand the 96% down to 94% move but anything lower is basic greed and taking the piss, nothing to do with staying afloat.

A well organised and well run operator can survive without these player suffering moves, Lets forget the less Rolos in the packet and look at the amount of business (general not just casinos) who have to settle for a smaller profit margin these days but continue to run a successful business

Times have changed and casinos too have to accept this that the good old days of having a "Counting house King" are gone, greed goes along with this. If the smaller operators fall by the wayside so be it, there are too many casinos out there nowadays anyway and businesses in general are closing all the time.

IMO a loss of operators would be a tremendous boost for the industry (for those who do it right!) and players would not have to constantly be the 'fall guy'
 

bamberfishcake

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I remain open to the idea that casinos make so little they need to offer lower rtp to survive but am yet to be convinced.

These are not sole traders taking a punt at a business.

They pay 100's of thousands of pounds in setting up data centre contracts and licence fees (i think) - not to mention the additional set up costs with structuring a business.

They attract investment and whilst i know little of the exact costings i doubt they run on small profits.
 

slot_zombie

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2014
Location
UK
In order to meet the market demands and conditions at present, watering down the beer is better than no beer at all? Product shrinkage I think it's called. Remember how your tube of Rolos has gone from 12, 10 9 etc. in order to keep them the same price? If you aren't a big worldwide operation that can subsidize one section of games or jurisdiction with profits from others, this is what you'll get. It's not the casinos trying to rip you off, they're simply trying to keep afloat.

Ah, horseshit (no offence intended) - GVC made nearly 500m profit last year but there they are, "struggling to survive" and "watering the beer" on Play & Go while paying out 35p/share in dividends...
 

goatwack

I have nipples, Greg. Could you milk me?
CAG
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Aug 29, 2012
Location
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"Hey guys, I was thinking of starting a casino business. What's that? Yes Mike, I'm doing it out of the goodness of my heart. Casinos are the poor little orphans of the business world and make almost no money. Infact all our peers went into it for shits and giggles and to lose a ton of money!"

^ that's a real transcript
 

09237653

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I was wondering why there was a 25p game on vs battles this month, it all makes sense now, I'll stick to the 96% casinos thanks.
 

goatwack

I have nipples, Greg. Could you milk me?
CAG
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Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
I remember when wandering into this industry like a rookie eight years ago, and bonuses were commonplace, games ran properly in Flash, and one could play DOA with bonus funds.

Ah balls it was just a dream. And why are the sheets wet
 

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