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Neteller gives player personal info to casinos?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by portia, Feb 22, 2004.

    Feb 22, 2004
  1. portia

    portia Dormant account

    There have been a few posts in various gaming forums about casinos and sportsbooks requesting Neteller to check for evidence of player fraud.

    And that Neteller provided the merchants with MORE than :

    "Thank you, yes we see there is some evidence indicating fraud. The account will be closed while we investigate"; or

    "The player(s) accounts are verified with bamk accounts and we see no evidence indicating fraud". "Goodbye".


    It seems to me an unnecessary and dangerous violation of privacy for Neteller to give casinos and Merchants the following information :

    1) Player's banking institution name, address, account number, account type, currency - anything at all other than "This Neteller Member is Verified."

    2) Players activities wrt other merchants. Which casinos he deposits with, amounts frequency. Merchants who are substantial source of revenue to neteller or who have developed a personal rapport with Neteller staff over the years, should not be able to go shopping for "whales" or "consistent losers" at Neteller.

    Talk about a low cost way to develop a direct marketing campaign. Am not suggesting that Neteller would do this as a policy, or directly sell this valuable info. But it is very conceivable in an environment were player privacy is not a rigorously protected in company policy or culture.

    Emplyees who are caught informally providing player information to merchants should be fired at the very least. Employees who reveal player info or collude with merchants should know they will be charged criminally or sued civilly if the laws of the land allow.

    The brief point here is that, no matter how well intentioned an employee may be in helping a friendly merchant in a fraud investigation, it is a slippery slope. Neteller should address this problem with the seriousnes that they have conducted other aspects of there business.

    3) If any other casinos have made inquiries into the veracity of a players account and who those casinos are.

    4) How a player account was funded. If it was cash from a bank, EFT from bank, transfer from another player, or transfer from another merchant.

    This one can be used as a pretext to by casinos to defraud legitimate players. It is the vogue in casinoland now. That there are covens of wolves out there attacking casinos in packs. Unfairly (somehow?) taking advantage of them. Now as this is an accepted theory at this time in the industry the Rogues, or roguishly inclined know that if they can claim any connection between players - that they know of one another - that this will be accepted grounds to not pay players there winnings that they won by risking there own money in the joint.

    General acceptance that this theory has any validity makes it easier for neteller employess to act with righteousness to provide info to the casinos on who transfers to whom.

    Also might result in Neteller employees locking or closing accounts because players transfers to one another indicate fraud in the eyes of there Casino customers.

    btw Neteler and Casinos : due to the foriegn exchange charges for neteller transfers from non US banks, many non US players seek out ways to fund there accounts thru transfers from other players. (It saves significant money. The more to spend in the casinos)

    Non us players often have US$, even have US$ bank accounts in NON US banks, but cannot transfer those us$ to Neteller. They are only allowed to transfer local currency, and get nailed with exchange costs.

    5) Any info on players communications with Neteller, complaints about casino slow payments or any other communications.

    Are there more?

    This still leaves Neteller a free hand to investigate real fraud, moneylaundering, etc. And whatever reporting is required by law to governments.

    And the casinos still get thenefit of the results of any Neteller investigation of real player fraud. They get the bottom line. They do not get any preliminary details that violate player privacy and can be misused by unenlightened casino operators who refuse to pay players who on occaision happen to win.

    Neteller may not have recognised the importance of this fine line they walk between the players and the casinos. They must be trusted by all. They need internal policies and enforcement to give all parties confidence in the integrity of there employees and there operations.

    Especially if local regulators do not provide for this suffiiently.

    This must become part of Netellers culture. Neteller must be a standard of integrity. [can i buy shares in this company?]


    Now in a interview that CMeister conducted (and broadcast from this site) with Neteller, the Executive made it clear that they wanted to hear from players in instances were payments are being delayed as that could indicate cash flow problems with merchant. He confirmed that each case is investigated.

    As Dirk_Dangerous suggested, i think all legitimate players should be contacting Neteller about their concern over privacy of their account. Neteller execs appear to be serious about maintaining standards of decency in the financial industry. They are a young company and this "most serious problem" may not have been brought to the attention of the senior executives.

    Believe that Neteller has recently moved their HQ from Calgary, Canada to somewhere in the UK.

    Someone over there may know something about the regulatory environment and if Neteller is already under some statutory obligation to protect customers privacy.

    If not there are commercial and ethical reasons that they will surely see it in there interests to assure the public of there privacy while the conduct legitimate investigations of fraud.

    Problem is that legitimate players may be intimidated to speak about this for concern that Neteller or Merchants will met out some retribution.

    Unfortunately for players, there doesn't seem to be a rival to Neteller's service right now.

    Legitimate players let Neteller know if this privacy issue is important to you.
  2. Feb 22, 2004
  3. wossisface

    wossisface Dormant account

    MoneyBookers, also based in the UK, seem to be very efficient. Unfortunately they don't yet have anywhere near the same coverage of merchants as does NetTeller.

    A seriously valid point about privacy, by the way, thanks for bringing it up.
  4. Feb 24, 2004
  5. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    I just put in an email to a very close friend of mine at Neteller in hopes of possibly having Neteller set-up an email address for the purposes of having players voice their opinions directly to Neteller. The issue is very serious one and I really think that Neteller needs to know how the players feel in mass.

    Count me in Portia on anything that I can do to get this issue the attention it deserves. Have a good one.

  6. Feb 24, 2004
  7. gamblinboi

    gamblinboi Dormant account

    good idea, Cipher. I've emailed Neteller asking for their privacy policy. They responded with a vague and generic response. I emailed them again, and this time was ignored.
  8. Feb 24, 2004
  9. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Hang tight before we go hog wild. Neteller monitors this board, and the Chief of Security and Complaince is a member as well. He is out of the office until Wednesday, so lets give him some breathing room to respond. There are some issues that need to be addressed -- let's not go on the war path before there's anyone to shoot at.

    In other words, save your ammo.

    Thanks! :D
  10. Feb 25, 2004
  11. cipher

    cipher Banned member - being a jerk

    That's exactly who I emailed and I agree let's save the ammo. Thanks Brian.

  12. Feb 25, 2004
  13. gamblinboi

    gamblinboi Dormant account

    ooh, war analogies! lets flank him, set up some gun turrets and fox holes!! casinomeister you were in the army, no? :)
  14. Feb 25, 2004
  15. lanidar

    lanidar Dormant account

    Avenel, New Jersey
    set up some gun turrets

  16. Feb 26, 2004
  17. gamblinboi

    gamblinboi Dormant account

    bump, colin where are you?
  18. Feb 26, 2004
  19. crushgrove

    crushgrove Dormant account

    Neteller does in fact give out player info to casinos. I know this first hand. A casino account of mine was locked because the casino said that I was linked to another player because that player had transfered money to my Neteller account. Now how would the casino know who has transferred money to my neteller account?

    The crazy part is that I never got my money from the casino and my neteller account was locked untill I contacted them. All this because a freind of mine sent me 300$. What a joke! I'm sure Neteller will come here and try to say they don't collaborate with casinos but I can assure you its a load of BS. The casinos are their meal ticket and based on my situation Neteller they will unload things to casinos at their beckon call. Not that I care, but players should not be so naive to think that Neteller doesnt look out for the needs of the casinos first.
  20. Feb 27, 2004
  21. portia

    portia Dormant account

    tick ... tock ...tick ... tock .... tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ...
  22. Feb 27, 2004
  23. caruso

    caruso Banned User - repetitive violations of 1.6 - troll

    Casino apologist
    As I said in the other thread, Neteller will make payments to a casino from your account without your authorization. Happened to me last year with iGlobalMedia.

    Obviously they work in tandom with the casinos for their mutual benefit. Why would anyone have ever doubted this? We're players, remember, or "scum" in Neteller / casino speak.
  24. Feb 27, 2004
  25. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    I'm sensing another "conspiracy theory" here. Sheesh! Don't forget, there are three parties at work - Neteller - the merchant - the customer. It's funny how player fraud just whips by most of you, but when it comes to casinos protecting themselves or a cash provider assisting investigations, the outspoken ones become even more aggreived and outspoken.

    If so many players weren't consistantly trying to rip off casinos with forged documents, false statements, and other lies and misdemeanors, there wouldn't be this problem.

    Give Colin a chance to respond. I've just been notified that his trip was extended. Perhaps he can fill us "scum" in.
  26. Feb 27, 2004
  27. gamblinboi

    gamblinboi Dormant account

    Dudemeister there's no conspiracy imo, it's happened to me as well. Let's say a casino sends you a payment. Now all of a sudden the casino renegs, and the payment they want cancelled. Neteller will cancel it NO QUESTIONS ASKED. By cancel i mean the money is taken from your neteller and sent back to the casino. Let's see a player try and do that!!

    Back when paypal was still usable, if a casino wanted to cancel a payment then paypal security would call you, or send you an email, and ASK you. Not so with neteller.
  28. Feb 27, 2004
  29. lanidar

    lanidar Dormant account

    Avenel, New Jersey
    I don't doubt what you are telling is about PayPal.
    But...PayPal actually phoned you and ASKED you if you would allow the payment to go back into the casino BEFORE removing it?
    And...what happens when you refused to let the transfer take place back to the casino?
  30. Feb 27, 2004
  31. gamblinboi

    gamblinboi Dormant account

    yep they had me call in and they explained to me what was going on, then they asked if it was okay to reverse the payment. I don't know what would have happened had i said no??
  32. Feb 28, 2004
  33. portia

    portia Dormant account

    Neteller CSR says the company NEVER gives casinos any information about the players activities. Not banking info, Not were they deposit, how much, wether they lose alot, Not who they transer funds to and from, nothing.

    But the casinos say otherwise.

    Cannot see were Neteller site says they hold player info strictly confidential from merchants.

    It does have a large write up on cooperating with the patriot act in the US, and cooperating with law enforcement on moneylaundering by criminals and Terrorists, etc.

    There is a potential for a big problem here for all players (it may be real already) :

    Cause Neteller doesn't set up booths at conferences around the world to meet with us players. They do so to meet casino operators.

    They do not attend parties, dine and socialize with players. They do so with casino operators.

    The Millieu for Neteller is the casino operator and they probably will pick up the same attitudes, the vernacular, and prejudices that casino operators have about gamblers. This would not be a good thing - as the players are not viewed in a very flattering light.

    Neteller Exec's would have to be very determined to avoid having their employees (or themselves?) co-opted or corrupted by the casinos.

    Hopefully Netellers response to the info that is leaking out of the casino's (that Neteller is providing casino's info about players that can be used as an excuse to refuse payment of winners) will not be a directive to the casinos to "keep quiet about us giving you the players private info".

    Don't think anyone would have a problem about info on terrorists moneylaunders going to the authorities but how to justify providing info on winning player to a casino?

    tick ...tock ... tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ... tick ... tock ...
  34. Feb 28, 2004
  35. crushgrove

    crushgrove Dormant account

    Player fraud or whatever the casinos/Neteller's excuse still does not give Neteller the right to divulge player information. I for one was not involved in any type of player fraud, this is obvious because I had to call Neteller and send in my ID to them and then had my account reopened. Would you trust a bank that gave out your transaction history to a merchant simply because a merchant asked for it? This is absurd, if Neteller wishes to be treated as a legitimate financial institute in Canada then they better stop this infringement of privacy. I for one was very close to calling the Canadian government about how Neteller is breaking privacy agreements. The fact that Neteller still hasnt come here to address this matter is scary as well.

    Just FYI, when I talked to the casino involved, Ecashworld (golden palace) they knew the persons name who transferred money to my Neteller account. Now how would they know that???? Neteller, any answer???
  36. Mar 1, 2004
  37. murder1

    murder1 <a href="http://www.casinomeister.com/meister_awar

    I will tell you first hand Neteller does give out Private Information. They have access to your private credit history. Doing signup they ask you alist of questions that has appeared on your credit file. I have had them to send my personal information to Golden Palace casino groups. They also charge you a outragous 9% to use Insta-Cash. To make a deposit. And if you refuse and want to use EFT they make you wait 4 full business days. Even if your bank shows it was withdrawn the same day. I really miss Paypal and think we should email Paypal and ask for they service back. Neteller used to be alright when they were in the back seat behind Paypal and Firepay. But now since they have the driver's seat. They don't respect they customers. I only use Firepay to Deposit because of they lower fees. And use Neteller to withdrawal. But Neteller as a whole can Kiss my ...
  38. Mar 2, 2004
  39. xianna

    xianna Dormant account

    I am beginning to think we need to hold a "Players' Convention." All interested parties would be welcome to attend. Maybe if we could have a drink with them and talk face to face with them, they'd stop thinking of us as they do.

    Right now though, it seems a little like "them against us." They all party together, they get to know each other . . . and we're out here in email land.

    Actually, my "Players' Convention" idea might be a very bad one. There could be some disastrous results. I've heard too often about the threats some casino managers have made. It might not be a good party at all.

    But they all kind of need us, don't they? NeTeller, casino managers . . . all of them? I think many of them would be out of a job if we suddenly disappeared.

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