Resolved Need advice on iNetBet - don't want to lose 6k from one spin :(

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danofthewibble

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It seems odd to me that they couldn't do some maths simply to work out what percentage of the win from the "banned" game was then used in wagering for the Big Win. UK casinos apportion winnings from bonus/cash in their wagering. If the Big Win was as a result of 80% "banned" winnings, pay out 20%. If the Big Win was as a result of 0.05% "banned" winnings, pay out 99.95%. Etc.

Whichever way you look at it, he won this fair and square. He was then treated woefully unfairly.

At every step, the casino has acted unfairly, in game placement, in post-sale care, in dispute resolution. To me, it should therefore be a 100% payout, with an apology and a goodwill bonus.
 

Casinomeister

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Just a few comments from me.

  • I'm the one who banned the OP, not Max. And I'm the one who reinstated mfrasher's account for the sake of transparency and being fair.
  • There was no rush of judgement from Max, this was a collective decision which we went back and forth on for quite a while. And it was extremely tough to say the least
  • The game is placed on every page of every category along with the other new games. There is no intention to trick anyone - most every RTG casino is laid out the same way. This game is listed as a new game - it is plain as day. The bottom of every game category has this tab to include Video Poker, Table Games, Slots, Specialty Games. It is not list as a slot; it is a specialty game - it does not appear as a slot - it is a snakes and ladder board game. So it is a board game and anyone who is familiar with RTG casinos would know about this layout - and the OP is an experienced player and should have known this.
  • You are not locked into this game when you place a bet. You can leave the game. So this is incorrect in stating that the player is forced into a lose/lose situation.
  • RTG casinos do not have the function to block games. I am gathering more information on this at the moment because I feel this is a serious issue. But I cannot condemn a casino for not doing this if this is not a software function out of the package. All RTG casinos list the games you are allowed to play, and it is the player's responsibility to read and heed this.
  • That one "win" can make all the difference for future wagers. This you can't assume or dismiss - you are talking about unknowns here. People have won massive jackpots on their last spin.

One thing that people have failed to acknowlege is that this was RTG's money not the casino's. It was a jackpot won after the terms of the bonus was broken. Is it fair to players who have painstakingly NOT broken the terms?
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
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I'm confused with some of the stuff here

regarding the game placement, quite a few members who play at RTG casinos say they wouldn't know it wasn't a slot, therefore seems it is deceiving

regarding the locked into the game part, again, more than one member have said you are - not sure whats going on there as clearly some say you are and a couple say not.

someone posted a screenshot of an RTG casino with blocked games while using a bonus, if they don't have the ability to do that, then what was the screenshot of?

the fact he won $16 from the first spin obviously doesn't help, but he states he never went under $16 so I can't see how it made any difference?

Not trying to be a twat here, just genuinely don't understand those things.
 

greylady

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I find it totally incomprehensible that the Casino has actually read this thread and at no time responded, never mind made no attempt to apologise to the OP, their credibility with me has dropped into the sewers, which is exactly where their casino can stay - their silence speaks volumes, obviously they cannot defend their own actions so opt to stay stuhm!
 

KasinoKing

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  • The game is placed on every page of every category along with the other new games. There is no intention to trick anyone - most every RTG casino is laid out the same way. This game is listed as a new game - it is plain as day. The bottom of every game category has this tab to include Video Poker, Table Games, Slots, Specialty Games. It is not list as a slot; it is a specialty game - it does not appear as a slot - it is a snakes and ladder board game. So it is a board game and anyone who is familiar with RTG casinos would know about this layout - and the OP is an experienced player and should have known this.
For the record - I strongly disagree with that statement.
When you enter the casino (pretty much ANY RTG casino) this game was shown as a "New Game" in-between other new games, which happened to all be slots.
Yes it is as plain as day if the player clicked on all the various categories and saw the same "New Games" at the bottom of each page - but in reality who ever does that?
Players just want to play- not spend 10 minutes looking at each page in detail trying to suss out what sort of game each icon represents.
I made the exact same mistake myself - I opened the game fully expecting it to be a slot.
Luckily I wasn't playing with a bonus at the time.


My overall opinion (might not be popular!):
This whole thread is just a total waste of 100's of hours of everyone's time, compiling and posting masses of unnecessary waffle.

This is a VERY SIMPLE issue and NOTHING else matters:
The casino confiscated the player's entire winnings purely on the grounds that he accidentally played one round on one game because he thought it was a slot.
Which ever way you chop it up - that's just WRONG! :mad:

KK

PS: I disagree that there was any intent to "entrap" by the casino: all RTG casinos have pretty much the same layout.
 
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CasinoNinja

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Can someone make a video placing a real bet and shows what happens if you try to exit the game before you roll the dices? Up until you press the bet size you have no idea that it is not a slot game, as demonstrated in Dunovers video.
 

Casinomeister

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You ARE locked into the game once you select your bet. I can not see any way of backing out of it, as backed up by several other members who have posted the same findings in this thread.

You aren't locked in to the game. I play RTG for real money and can bail from the game after selecting the bet and clicking "play". No funds leave my balance. I see that the game is a board game and bail.

As for RTG not blocking disallowed games, I am currently contacting several operators to find out if this is a function that they can chose. For what I know it is not, and if some RTG casinos are able to do thing, their programers they may be adding code or something to their websites. I don't know. I wish people would be specific and tell me which casinos can do this. That would really help.
 

Casinomeister

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Can someone make a video placing a real bet and shows what happens if you try to exit the game before you roll the dices? Up until you press the bet size you have no idea that it is not a slot game, as demonstrated in Dunovers video.
I'll do this if I have the time this morning.
 

KasinoKing

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You aren't locked in to the game. I play RTG for real money and can bail from the game after selecting the bet and clicking "play". No funds leave my balance. I see that the game is a board game and bail.
Yeah - I tested that again and edited my post while you were typing!
You are correct on that one - my bad.
However I have seen many weird & wonderful slots in my time and I was not 100% certain it was not a slot until I clicked "spin"'

KK
 

paul7388

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Maybe the player could have exited but having had to choose stake he thought he had to play so did.

But this thread is going around in circles.

Maybe Bryan you vould just actually state your honest opinion. Regardless of rules etc. and fact casino technically is right do you personally think it is right that 6k is refused for only 1 spin.

Not meaning to come across in wrong way but i am sure most members would like to.know your personal opinion of this and not the casino is right as term was broke.
 

Casinomeister

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But this thread is going around in circles.
Ya think? :p

Maybe Bryan you vould just actually state your honest opinion. Regardless of rules etc. and fact casino technically is right do you personally think it is right that 6k is refused for only 1 spin.

Not meaning to come across in wrong way but i am sure most members would like to.know your personal opinion of this and not the casino is right as term was broke.
Yeah, I'm still looking into this and hope to get back to everyone later today.
 

deaconk78

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United Kingdom
Just a few comments from me.

  • I'm the one who banned the OP, not Max. And I'm the one who reinstated mfrasher's account for the sake of transparency and being fair.
  • There was no rush of judgement from Max, this was a collective decision which we went back and forth on for quite a while. And it was extremely tough to say the least
  • The game is placed on every page of every category along with the other new games. There is no intention to trick anyone - most every RTG casino is laid out the same way. This game is listed as a new game - it is plain as day. The bottom of every game category has this tab to include Video Poker, Table Games, Slots, Specialty Games. It is not list as a slot; it is a specialty game - it does not appear as a slot - it is a snakes and ladder board game. So it is a board game and anyone who is familiar with RTG casinos would know about this layout - and the OP is an experienced player and should have known this.
  • You are not locked into this game when you place a bet. You can leave the game. So this is incorrect in stating that the player is forced into a lose/lose situation.
  • RTG casinos do not have the function to block games. I am gathering more information on this at the moment because I feel this is a serious issue. But I cannot condemn a casino for not doing this if this is not a software function out of the package. All RTG casinos list the games you are allowed to play, and it is the player's responsibility to read and heed this.
  • That one "win" can make all the difference for future wagers. This you can't assume or dismiss - you are talking about unknowns here. People have won massive jackpots on their last spin.

One thing that people have failed to acknowlege is that this was RTG's money not the casino's. It was a jackpot won after the terms of the bonus was broken. Is it fair to players who have painstakingly NOT broken the terms?


The rep that provided false information regarding the supposed chat that took place -- they didn't reply immediately with the information but ti took several days and yet they still LIED. why is this is being overlooked ?

i could accept anyone making an instant off the cuff assumption in the moment but this was several days later and it is accepted as just a 'mistake' ?

IF they can't even provide yourselves with factual information the first time and allow you to make a decision initially based upon falseness then doesn't that infuriate you in the slightest ?

what i really don't like is that iNetbet created doubt about the processes here and didn't even get a kick up the backside! why should a service you provide for free leave you and your staff in a position taking all the flak.

you should be proud though that you have a website and created a community that battles for fairness like a dog with a bone !
 

shadow123

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Any casino that isnt a 2 bit operation would have paid after considering the fact it was a genuine mistake on the players part.
6K should be nothing to them and was it really worth all the bad publicity, players do not forget and its going to cost them
far more in the long run.I take the dog walkies on a local racecourse and they have a banner for betfair,little reminder every time
i see it.
 

Kerply

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cornwall
I was linked this thread on another site.
What an interesting read, and eye opening for sure.
I completely agree with most of the community here, the OP has been VERY harshly treated, and the casino has acted deceitfully and imo very rogue and underhand.
 

deepsky2

One more spin
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Location
toronto ontario canada
Just a few comments from me.

  • I'm the one who banned the OP, not Max. And I'm the one who reinstated mfrasher's account for the sake of transparency and being fair.
  • There was no rush of judgement from Max, this was a collective decision which we went back and forth on for quite a while. And it was extremely tough to say the least
  • The game is placed on every page of every category along with the other new games. There is no intention to trick anyone - most every RTG casino is laid out the same way. This game is listed as a new game - it is plain as day. The bottom of every game category has this tab to include Video Poker, Table Games, Slots, Specialty Games. It is not list as a slot; it is a specialty game - it does not appear as a slot - it is a snakes and ladder board game. So it is a board game and anyone who is familiar with RTG casinos would know about this layout - and the OP is an experienced player and should have known this.
  • You are not locked into this game when you place a bet. You can leave the game. So this is incorrect in stating that the player is forced into a lose/lose situation.
  • RTG casinos do not have the function to block games. I am gathering more information on this at the moment because I feel this is a serious issue. But I cannot condemn a casino for not doing this if this is not a software function out of the package. All RTG casinos list the games you are allowed to play, and it is the player's responsibility to read and heed this.
  • That one "win" can make all the difference for future wagers. This you can't assume or dismiss - you are talking about unknowns here. People have won massive jackpots on their last spin.

One thing that people have failed to acknowlege is that this was RTG's money not the casino's. It was a jackpot won after the terms of the bonus was broken. Is it fair to players who have painstakingly NOT broken the terms?

Thank you for your ongoing work on this, however, your talking about the OP about his responsibility for playing a restricted game but yet you do not mention anything on the casino responsibility on this.
Honestly, It was one spin doesn't matter as if he knew it wasn't a slot why would one open it and play 1 spin. Be a different story if he did several rounds but it was 1 spin this says volumes and you need to hold the casino accountable for lies and yes they lied period and we want them to be accountable for that.
 

Tirilej

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I know everything have been said here already but why not another post anyway....

I wonder if the outcome had been different if it had been another casino? One where Max and Bryan didn't know the staff or had worked with them for many years.
I feel that in this particular case it would have made a difference.

What I could read from Max earlier posts is that he didn't believe in the player, and was really searching for something negative. When the PAB was looked at a second time all the facts was still not there and it was points made that had nothing to do with the case...like the one that he had played at a sister casino and after his loss he played the comp points.

I do know that the people behind Inetbet is honest, but I also think that everyone's mind is set out to search for fraudsters, and after having dealt with some stupid and fraudulent players for so many years it's tough to believe in people. That goes for Max and Bryan too. It's human to become a bit cynical and there is a lot of dishonest people out there.

In this case though you have to see a bit longer. We are no fools in here and never since I signed up here almost ten years ago have I seen a case where 99% of the members have voted for the player. That must mean something!
 

lockinlove

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You aren't locked in to the game. I play RTG for real money and can bail from the game after selecting the bet and clicking "play". No funds leave my balance. I see that the game is a board game and bail.

As for RTG not blocking disallowed games, I am currently contacting several operators to find out if this is a function that they can chose. For what I know it is not, and if some RTG casinos are able to do thing, their programers they may be adding code or something to their websites. I don't know. I wish people would be specific and tell me which casinos can do this. That would really help.

They do block games. They block the big jackpot games when on a bonus. Also, when you get deposit freespins for a certain game, they block all other games aside from that slot so they make sure you play the spins first and not save them til last. Atleast slotocash and uptownaces do. I dont really play anywhere else for rtg so I dunno
 

Harry_BKK

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You aren't locked in to the game. I play RTG for real money and can bail from the game after selecting the bet and clicking "play". No funds leave my balance. I see that the game is a board game and bail.

As for RTG not blocking disallowed games, I am currently contacting several operators to find out if this is a function that they can chose. For what I know it is not, and if some RTG casinos are able to do thing, their programers they may be adding code or something to their websites. I don't know. I wish people would be specific and tell me which casinos can do this. That would really help.

As far as I understood it, you choose a bet size and one game is five "spins", once you have done one "spin" you have to complete them. At that point you will not be able to leave the game and you get a message like: "Incomplete game...."

Now, if you don't pay much attention and click the spin button too quickly, you realize too late that it is not a slot. It can happen easily, especially because you choose the bet size before it loads, so you are comfortable to press "spin".
 
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Casinomeister

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Anyway, this thread his spiraled into a heap of speculation - many assumptions are being made here from senior members who ought to know better.

The reason the casino rep has not been involved in this thread is because this has been an ongoing complaint and he was given instructions by me to not participate. To call this "disgusting" is way out of line.

Here are my final comments on the matter:

  • Nothing was hidden. The game was not placed in the wrong place - like some have suggested. No one was tricked. The player should have known that the game was not a slot game. It is listed as a specialty game - not a slot game. Everyone who is familiar with RTG - like this player - would have known. Besides, each game has an "info" tab, and it is clearly shown.
  • RTG bonus codes can disable games that are not included with the bonus terms. But if a new game is launched, it may not be included unless all of the bonus codes are changed. This is something I am still looking into.
  • Management did the right thing. He played the wrong game, and that game negated any play after that. If the player had won only $50 or $500, he probably wouldn't have made an issue about it. The only reason there is such a hullabaloo about this is because it was a jackpot. If he had only waited for a response from the casino, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
  • The player broke the runs and gained an unfair advantage. The casino management removed the winnings and returned those to RTG for someone else to win - someone who would not break the rules. This is fair to the other players who are playing this game. We were talking about giving the player a pass - but what happens then? Do you understand that anyone who has broken these rules would be looking for a free pass as well?
  • The player had his deposits returned - thus he is not "out of pocket." He lost nothing but a jackpot that should not have been awarded in the first place.
Nevertheless, I have spoken to the owners of the casino, circumventing management, and we are making a decision here. Watch this space for further development.

Thread is closed for now until this is over. Thank you for your understanding in this and please don't start cross posting about this issue. Thank you.
 
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Casinomeister

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After a long detailed talk with the owners of the casino, we have decided on the following to resolve this issue once and for all:

The player's initial withdrawal was $5854.08 - Minus sticky bonus $300 = $5554

and the win from the non-allowed game was $14 = 9.33% boost on deposit of $150

9.33% of win = 518.37
Remainder = $5035.62 which iNetBet has agreed to pay.

Now I want everyone to be 100% clear on this: iNetBet is giving the benefit of doubt to the player, that a mistake was made, and that the casino is willing to remove that "win" the player made from that illegal bet - and that the casino is now willing to pay out of pocket. It's not RTG's money now since that jackpot money has already been returned - it's coming from iNetBet. This should underscore the fact the Max and I have harped on - that the operators of iNetBet are not the monsters or rogues that a load of people are trying to make them out to be.

I think that this resolution is more than fair. Again, this was an unauthorized game, the player should have known, and the casino had no obligation to hand over RTG's jackpot funds to a player who violated the rules - no matter how minor a number many of you made it out to be - paying him would not have been the right call. But in all fairness - the owners have decided to look beyond this.

A final note: for those of you criticizing my judgement, Max's, or making demeaning comments towards my standards or the motto "Advocate of fair play" need to be honest about your motives. Advocate of fair play is to be advocating fair play to all - which includes not only the player in question, but to the operators, to the software provider - and to other players who may be affected by a jackpot that was unfairly won.

This thread will remain locked because I have no more to say about this matter in the public fora. This issue has gone around in circles in public mainly from a load of misinformation, assumptions, untrue statements, and some downright bullshit. If anyone has anything to say to me in private about this, by all means feel free to PM me. For those of you making public false statements about me or my brand Casinomeister based on some of the BS that was being regurgitated in this thread, I would recommend retracting those statements or correcting them. That would be the right thing to do.
 
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greylady

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I hope everyone appreciates the work you put into this, well both you and Max, kudos to you both :)

As to iNetbet, this thread would never have existed had they done what was right in the first place but I will give them some credit for coming through in the end, even if it was with your intervention, sure the OP will make for a great Christmas now.
 
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