Resolved Need advice on iNetBet - don't want to lose 6k from one spin :(

[Jono777]

Well I am glad OP can post again. That is a start.

Yes me too.

One of my bucket list from my earlier post, "tick"

Now for the appearance of the rep with a post from them along the lines of...

".....Despite etc etc, mutually, apologies, etc etc .......and paid the player"

and they all lived happily ever after!

 

[goatwack]

There once was a player

Who spun on a prayer

Not knowing the game was banned

He felt sick to the bones

For Banana Jones

Had peeled him for six grand

He went to see Chat

But they seemed to be sat

Idly, twiddling their thumbs

As he mused, others berated

His ban reinstated

He longed for iNetbet to respond

Not cursing or pissing

Instead

He found the Rep was simply

'Missing'

 

[Casinomeister]

I nominate Goatwack as Poet Laureate for Casinomeister. Perhaps he can give us a performance at the next Meister Meeting.

 

[ChrisNobles]

Our very own Edward Lear! Lol

 

[Steviedoo]

The player approached Bryan and Bryan thought he should be reinstated. Beyond that I don't know as I'm not currently involved.



I respectfully point out that there are great number of other things we look for and want from a casino in order to consider it "good". You could look at the Becoming Accredited section for some further thoughts on that.

1. No player shall be involuntarily placed into a situation which breaches the terms and conditions during the course of play
2. Must offer live chat support.
3. Must have an active representative (who can walk and chew gum at the same time) listed in Casinomeister’s forum. This representative must be directly involved with customer/player service, or who can make decisions involving player issues. This representative needs to log in at least once a week.

from your link above...

the point i was making was a 9.8 casino vs an 8.2 casino.

 

[dunover]

I nominate Goatwack as Poet Laureate for Casinomeister. Perhaps he can give us a performance at the next Meister Meeting.

I can do poetry too!

There was a young lady from China,
Who had a great hair*******
*ahem*

OK, seriously I'll have to re-record my Christmas Carol I posted on YT a couple of years ago. It was based on the 12 Days Of Christmas and I can only remember how it began On the twelfth day of Christmas my true love gave to me 12 slots-a-stitchin' ended (in tune) and a bonus fuck*ng guarantee.

I might have posted the lyrics on here somewhere so me and Goatie can do a duo at MM.

 

[dionysus]

I can do poetry too!

There was a young lady from China,
Who had a great hair*******
*ahem*

ok, so this young woman from China had a great hairdresser
what's next?

*a what now?

 

[Maniakk]

I am not player of any online casino, neither owner of any online casino, in my point of view this is just business and in business your goal is to make money as much as possible and from casino point of view i am 100% sure, that all this - placing this game middle of slot games etc - is really good move to get reason to screw people.

OK, they wrote it in their T&C, but as it seems, they are actually hoping and was doing (and i think still doing) anything they can to misdirect players to play this game, to void their winnings. Why else they were playing this game in middle of slots and was denying to pay out big win? Because its business and if they can find reason to save and earn money they will. It has been so for decades and it will be so for decades.

In my point of view as a person who is actually more active in casino affiliate area, where these kind of situations should make me happy, i think its simple screwing over people and i recommend to avoid these kind of companies and casinos. If You want to be good company & trustworthy company, you dont make & look any loopholes to f**k people over. Period.

 

[mfrasher]

Post #1:

Hello Everyone,

OP here - this is my reply to everything that has transpired in what now seems a pretty hot topic... and rightly so.

First off, I want to say thank you to everyone that posted here, supporting me, and not assuming I was a lying monster. That support means a lot to me personally. Thank you again.

Second. To Bryan and Max. Thank you for re-instating me. You didn't have to do that, especially knowing that my responses may be harsh. This speaks to volumes to the fairness of the community. No. They did not ask me to say this.

Prior to getting into the facts, I want everyone to know that I am going to do my best not to let emotion seep into this post. I'd be lying though, if I told you I wasn't upset because I am. I feel my words, actions, and person were grossly mis-characterized. I don't think Max or Bryan did anything nefarious however. I believed and still believe they did what they though was right, but in the end, they got it wrong and it could of been handled better.

My intent here is to be respectful and present facts. I hope it comes across that way.

In my opinion, there are several questions that need to be addressed regarding this case. Some are related to the actual case/PAB. Others are related to the opinions, the mis-characterization of me, and my ban.

Regarding the actual PAB:

1. Did I play on a restricted game?
2. Did I receive an advantage from the game played?
3. Did I try and contact support?
4. Does the casino have any culpability in the game play (e.g., placement, etc.)
5. Was the casino's decision not to pay me equitable?
6. Did the casino act unethically?

Regarding the mis-characterization, opinions, and ban:

7. Did I omit key information?
8. Did I receive my deposit back and did I omit this?
9. Did I play at "sister" casinos?
10. Was asking for advice after requesting a payout wrong?
11. Was I dishonest?
12. Was the characterization of my person justified?
13. Was the ban justified?
14. Does the lack of response from the casino have any bearing?
15. Is the PAB process still credible and should we trust this site?


Question #1: Did I play a restricted game?

Answer: Yes.

Response: I didn't know it was a restricted game. Pure and simple. It was my first time playing at INetBet. I noticed a new game in the "latest games" section from the slot page, next to other games I knew to be slots.

Question #2: Did I receive and advantage from the game played?

Answer: No.

Response: I did win $16.00 from that first roll/spin, but my balance thereafter, never dropped below $16.00. No advantage gained.

Question #3: Did I try and contact support?

Answer: Yes.

Response: I did as soon as I realized what I was playing wasn't a slot. I quickly reviewed the T&C's and realized I might be screwed. So I tried to contact them multiple times. I never got a response from them. I was never "told to wait". Some have asked why did I play on after knowing I violated the T&C's. The answer is simple, in my opinion. I found the casino from this site (I think I actually clicked through the link here), and trusted that they were above board. Moreover, I honestly didn't think the chances of winning were good, and it would be a waste of time to make a stink about it because I would probably lose anyways. And honestly, it was ONE SPIN. I felt that if someone reasonable reviewed the situation, they would see I wasn't trying to dupe the casino.

Question #4: Does the casino have culpability in the game play?

Answer: Yes.

Response: That game is deceptively placed. As stated by many of the members here, it is hard to recognize as something other than a slot, and its placement makes it look like a slot. This happened to me. I thought it was a slot!

Question #5: Was the casino's decision not to pay me equitable?

Answer: No.

Response: The casino has used their T&C's to not pay me for one spin on a restricted game, that is placed deceptively. Remember - one spin that I gained no advantage from. And they had no support available. If they had support available, this whole thing would have been avoided. However, despite the game placement AND not having support available to address the situation, they claim I am 100% responsible. Not fair, nor equitable at all. Especially considering I gained no advantage from the spin/roll.

Question #6: Did the casino act unethically?

Answer: Yes.

Response: Despite the fact that they have terms and conditions that allow them to void the winnings, the onus is on them to ensure players can easily make distinctions between the games. Moreover, and more importantly - the game was not blocked. Had the game been blocked, this situation would never had occurred. Furthermore, as later discovered on the thread, they lied to Max during his investigation. While some may think they responded in haste, this is not an excuse to me.

Recap of the PAB facts:

1. Fact: I did play a restricted game, for one bet. I won $16.00.
2. Fact: I never gained an advantage since my balance didn't drop below $16.00.
3. Fact: The game is placed in an area that allows for confusion.
4. Fact: The game can easily be mistaken for a slot - as stated here on this thread by several other members.
5. Fact: The casino could have, but chose not to, block the game.
6. Fact: The casino could have, but did not have, support immediately available.
7. Fact: I did try to contact support.
8. Fact: They lied about this transaction and what was said/transpired.

 

[mfrasher]

Post #2

Now regarding the other questions, relating to subject matter discussed in this thread, and specifically in response to Max's decision (Post #235).


Question #7: Did I omit key information?

...And furthermore the player has never thought to mention this conversation at any time since. These are lies of omission and that is the second case of necessary and sufficient grounds to rule against this player, not to mention kicking him to the curb for being deceitful.

Answer: No.

Response: This is a multi-faceted response.

• Please refer to the second to last sentence on my first post on 8/24, (Post #1). In this post, I state that I tried contacting the player rep and that I've sent in my documents (information shared publicly).
• Please refer to post #7, second sentence made on 8/26 where I stated the casino emailed me, asking me for banking information, and that I promptly replied (information shared publicly).
• Please refer to post #14, where Max replies to the thread two days later, in which I included the information he claimed I omitted.
• Please Note: The PAB submission process only allows you a limited amount of characters when submitting your ticket (256 i believe?). I spent a long time widdling my ticket down to enough characters to fit into that space, and yet provide as much information as possible.
• On 8/30 I opened the PAB. In the initial ticket, I informed him that I tried contacting support, and emailed them with no response, and also tried contacting their player rep.
• The email they didn't (and still haven't) respond to was my request for re-consideration sent on 8/28 in response to them denying my payout. I could not elaborate all of these details in 256 (?) characters. But it was not omitted, and I did not lie (I shared a screen shot of this email with Max via the PAB ticket on 9/15).
• On 8/31 I replied to Max via the PAB private message and told him "Let me know if I can provide any additional information".
• Later on 8/31, Max replied and said "Will do".
• On 9/5 I messaged Max because I hadn't heard anything.
• On 9/6 Max responded by referring me to the Player Arbitration Policies and Practices, item 2.5; which states "...pestering us will only slow things down". I took this at face value, which told me not to pester Max.

Opinion: I feel most slighted by this piece, because I was made out to be a liar. I'm not going to claim ignorance here, but I will say I'm not the most versed in the PAB process. I tried to give all the information I could in the allowable space and stay within the PAB rules. I asked Max if he needed more from me, and he never told me he did. I wouldn't have made those post or asked Max if he needed more, if I was trying to hide something.... I hope this is reasonable and clear to everyone.

Question #8: Did I receive my deposit back and did I omit this?

d) when the player's withdrawal was denied his deposits were immediately returned. He never mentioned those returned deposits anywhere. Not on the forums, not in the many exchanges we've had since, nada.

Answer: Yes and No.

Response:

• I did mention this, please refer to post #48.
• I honestly don't even know what day they gave it back to me on. I wasn't even looking for it.
• How is this relevant to whether they should pay me the $6000?
• What is the thought here? I don't even understand what I possibly did wrong in this situation??

Question #9: Did I play at a "sister" casino?

Answer: Yes.

Response: So what? How is this even relevant? Truth be told, I don't really pay attention to who owns who, but I do now. So thank you for the information - I have now crossed all of their "sister" casinos off my play list as well. And I used their comp points. Again, so what? I earned them, and that has ZERO bearing on this matter.


Question #10. Was asking for advice after requesting a payout wrong?

c) this player was awfully fast to jump on the forums and "ask for advice." I have two major issues with this:

i) it's a flat out violation of our zero tolerance Posting Complaints policy which states that players MUST contact the casino rep before hitting the forums with their complaint on pain of being banned for violation of said rule. This is a second instance of grounds to kick this player to the curb.

ii) that post can as easily be read as a deliberate attempt to pressure the casino as it can as a innocent plea for help. And who posts their case on the forum "asking for advice" in that manner _while_ they are waiting for confirmation from the casino on their KYC docs? Something is not at all right here.

Answer: No.

Response: Another multi-faceted response...

• I did try contacting their rep. On 8/24 I sent a message to "iNetBet Promos". I never got a reply.
• I actually tried contacting a SECOND rep on 8/24, I sent a message to "Steven Dawson". He replied ONE TIME, 4 days later on 8/28 saying he would look into it. Never responded again.
• In my post, I never named them. On purpose. I didn't want to taint a potential PAB or give them undue negative exposure if they paid me. People on the thread asked me to name them, and I refused until after the PAB was concluded. Please reference Post #10, #19, #20 and #22. I avoided naming them and kept it strictly anonymous. I was LEGITIMATELY seeking advice here.

Question #11. Was I dishonest?

2) For forum violations, dishonesty and attempting to use our forums as a stick against the casino this player is toast at Casinomeister.

Answer: No.

Response: As everyone later learned, I told the truth and the casino lied. That lie was taken at face value, despite my repeated objections. I was then called dishonest and "toast".


Question #12. Was the characterization of my person justified?

Answer: No.

Response: I think I've proven this. No need to beat a dead horse.


Question #13. Was the ban justified?

Answer: No.

Response: Max claimed abuse of the site's terms... but I think I've shown I actually didn't break the rules. If I have, I did so in error and apologize. But I am not aware of it.


Question #14. Does the lack of response from the casino have any bearing?

Answer: Yes.

Response: Not showing up in this forum, or returning my email asking for a re-consideration, or the lack of any adequate response from the 2 player reps I messaged shows you they weren't even willing to work with me. Take from that what you will. I've made my decision with them.

Could they have offered me a settlement? Yes. Did they? No.

What did they do? They lied to Max. Then said "oopsies - but still not paying him".

And please note - their rep has read this thread... which means they were totally OK with me getting the blame for being dishonest.... when they know they were the ones who lied. F - Y - I.


Question #15: Is the PAB process still credible and should we trust this site?

Answer: Yes.

Response: As I stated earlier, I have garnered a lot of value from this site and the service they offer here is free to us, and many of you have gained from it. I, unfortunately, am on the extreme other end of the spectrum when it comes to this. But, considering all that this site does, these guys deserve credit.

Mistakes can be made, and as I said in an earlier post - I am all for 2nd chances.

Yes, Max mis-characterized me. He rushed to judgement. He believed the casino and made a hasty decision. Despite me repeatedly and vehemently telling him it was a lie, he sided with the casino and called me dishonest.

However, I don't think he did so with bad will. Please know that I am not letting him off the hook. I am still upset about how I was treated, however it is not lost on me that he and all the others here do so much for players and I'm sure, time and time again, he helped some of you out there. Max, Bryan, and the rest of the staff deserve credit for all that they do.


My final thoughts:

This situation sucks. This isn't the 1st time I've had online casinos mis-treat me (slow payments, etc.). But this is by far the worst. I can't believe what they are allowed to get away with... I've lost a $6000 payout, that me and my family could use. I feel like I was taken advantage of. And when I tried to find some relief, I basically got sh*t on. I kept a level head throughout this ordeal, and despite that, got flamed and made out to be a liar and a cheat.

But alas, that is all in the past now. My hope now is that the other members out there read this and make an informed decision about this casino going forward.

I don't know if this is completely over with the casino yet, but my hopes aren't high. Trust me.

To Bryan and Max. Thank you. You didn't have to allow me to post and you did. I hope my response wasn't disrespectful, as that was not my intent. I still appreciate what you guys do for everyone.

To everyone else. Thank you, again (except iNetBet).

 

[Savatage79]

Hope this works out for you man because you sure handled it alot better than I probably would have. Everything I have read and seen shows me 2 things...

1. You were wrongly accused and mischaracterized
2. You got screwed out of 6k over a simple mistake

Hopefully this situation will turn in your favor as for me it's one of the worst situations I've ever seen handled on a forum dating back to the dial up BBS days, in terms of banning someone in a situation like this in the first place. I'm glad they have since corrected that though.

So again, hope this will turn for you.

 

[deepsky2]

Wow after reading your post I have to say I really feel bad the way we're treated, but yet your very forgiving and humble and have a positive attitude just to show you, you're the better person. The casino and their reps really need to do the right thing. Just sad they sat back reading this thread and let Max make you sound like a liar is almost unforgiving, is just how I feel.

Good luck moving forward.

 

[Harry_BKK]

Thanks mfrasher for your extensive posts, which only hardened my opinion that you have been unjustly screwed.

I can assure you that, as the case shows up to now, iNetbet would not have an "iota" of standing in a UK or European court, but the casino knows very well that your country of residence is limiting your options to pursue this legally.

I am still appaled that iNetbet has not gotten as much as a slap on the wrist from CM, first for blatantly lying, second for not answering to your messages and a few other things. To the contrary, they have been given all possible leeway while you have been falsely snubbed off.

FYI, I downgraded them to a 1.5 rating out of 5, they were at 2.5 previously as I don't think they are a good place to play anyway because they just lack proper customer care and hide repeatedly behind their T&C's although they put the absolute majority of the burden on the player.

E.g. RTG offers to block restricted games, other casinos use it, iNetbet doesn't (and I am going as far as saying - purposely) and goes even further by placing a restricted game between other slots without as much as a marker that it is not a slot or restricted.

 

[mfrasher]

Hope this works out for you man because you sure handled it alot better than I probably would have. Everything I have read and seen shows me 2 things...

1. You were wrongly accused and mischaracterized
2. You got screwed out of 6k over a simple mistake

Hopefully this situation will turn in your favor as for me it's one of the worst situations I've ever seen handled on a forum dating back to the dial up BBS days, in terms of banning someone in a situation like this in the first place. I'm glad they have since corrected that though.

So again, hope this will turn for you.

Thanks man. I definitely appreciate it.

 

[mfrasher]

Wow after reading your post I have to say I really feel bad the way we're treated, but yet your very forgiving and humble and have a positive attitude just to show you, you're the better person. The casino and their reps really need to do the right thing. Just sad they sat back reading this thread and let Max make you sound like a liar is almost unforgiving, is just how I feel.

Good luck moving forward.

Thank you. I definitely appreciate it.

I agree. Knowing someone from the casino read this and let me take the fall, is probably one of the worst parts.

 

[mfrasher]

Thanks mfrasher for your extensive posts, which only harden my opinion that you have been unjustly screwed.

I can assure you that, as the case shows up to now, iNetbet would not have an "iota" of standing in a UK or European court, but the casino knows very well that your country of residence is limiting your options to pursue this legally.

I am still appaled that iNetbet has not gotten as much as a slap on the wrist from CM, first for blatantly lying, second for not answering to your messages and a few other things. To the contrary, they have been given all possible leeway while you have been falsely snubbed off.

FYI, I downgraded them to a 1.5 rating out of 5, they were at 2.5 previously as I don't think they are a good place to play anyway because they just lack proper customer care and hide repeatedly behind their T&C's although they put the absolute majority of the burden on the player.

E.g. RTG offers to block restricted games, other casinos use it, iNetbet doesn't (and I am going as far as saying - purposely) and goes even further by placing a restricted game between other slots without as much as a marker that it is not a slot or restricted.

Thank you. I agree, the fact I'm in the US may have something to do with it, but that is just speculation.

 

[NeverLucky]

Thanks @mfrasher for the long post explaining your side of things while trying to keep it as neutral as you can -- which has to be difficult given the situation.

Its frankly quite shocking seeing how iNetbet is not willing to even respond to this Thread. The least they can and should do in my eyes is to apologize for this Situation and enable the blocking of non-permitted Games while playing on a Bonus to STOP this from happening in the future.

I hope that this still can turn around for you even though it isnt looking good at the moment.

 

[mfrasher]

Thanks @mfrasher for the long post explaining your side of things while trying to keep it as neutral as you can -- which has to be difficult given the situation.

Its frankly quite shocking seeing how iNetbet is not willing to even respond to this Thread. The least they can and should do in my eyes is to apologize for this Situation and enable the blocking of non-permitted Games while playing on a Bonus to STOP this from happening in the future.

I hope that this still can turn around for you even though it isnt looking good at the moment.

Thank you. I am not shocked at the lack of response however...

 

[ladyhawke]

Hope this works out for you man because you sure handled it alot better than I probably would have....

And me. There is no way I could have remained as polite, reasonable and as non-confrontational as the OP, bearing in mind the stress he must have been under when faced with lies , lies and damned lies by the casino at nearly every turn, tainting his reputation in the process.

In fact, I would have been researching Grumpy Cat's "Idiot's Guide to Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies!"

 

[deaconk78]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

It is the behaviour of con artists . Having been following this whole sorry mess from the outset I feel that the trust iNetbet have gained with @maxd and other staff members has been abused .

They could well be victims just the same as @mfrasher .

The fact that iNetbet lied will place doubt on all future dealings with them - perhaps not openly but in the back of the mind there will always be nagging uncomfortable feelings unless there is irrefutable proof provided .

Genuinely makes me sad.

Hopefully charlatan behaviour by casinos will not go unpunished by players . A casino lives and dies by it's trustworthiness .

 

[Savatage79]

Also I think that if it was perhaps a minor jp that popped for 5 or 600 bucks that maybe it wouldn't be that catastrophic to just roll with the punches... But 6 grand? Lol id be on a fiery warpath. Not that any amount should justify it but the sum of money does change it dramatically

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Please note I recorded this BEFORE mfrasher made his posts following his ban being lifted (which I haven't had time to read yet), I left the upload going when I went to bed last night.

I will digest mfrasher's posts and upload a fresh video tonight, but for now I will publish this one.

 

[sueyh]

Thank you @mfrasher
and also I'm so sorry that you have been treated in a wrong way by not just Inetbet also by this forum.

Thanks to your action to bring this up here, now many people know how bad Inetbet is, and I'm sure many people stop playing there. You saved a lot of people from being screwed up by a bad casino. That is one comfort you can think of, I guess.

Hope you will have another very nice win at a really good casino soon. Fingers crossed for you.

 

[Cocochanel]

I feel SO SORRY for the OP, but Im still hoping for an Happy Ending.

Inetbet....you will never get a dime from me, disquesting how you treated this player because of one spin which was a mistake.

I can for sure understand why you are hiding, my face would be deep red of shame.

 

[colinsunderland]

So 2 x reps had 7 days to do something before the PAB was submitted? Apart from one message saying they would look into it, they didn't reply. So to me that puts a worse slant on the whole 'lie' they told. Max states he believes it was an innocent mistake where they glanced at it and didn't read what had happened properly as they were possibly rushing, fair enough, we all make mistakes, however I would think things should be double checked for something like this. But, they had 7 days before that to read the case notes, so 7 days + however long it took to come back to Max (4 days?) so about 11 days. Not sure why a complaint shouldn't be investigated properly in that sort of time frame and makes me think it is just as likely they didn't make a mistake, and knew the PAB would be kicked out if they stated what they did.

Something else that has probably been overlooked, and not related to this case, is the FU clause they have in the KYC process where they can confiscate balances if documents aren't supplied within 5 working days of request. What if someone is on holiday when the request comes through? I thought FU clauses weren't allowed from an accredited casino?