Need a BTC Guru to .....

weesie

Ueber Meister
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Location
Old bag lady with a laptop
explain this to me.

Recently got a bit of news about how to save on fees.

I watched the youtube tutorial and read the article.

Just confuses me.

Can anyone explain this to me in laymans' terms, "idiot terms" if you prefer.

To me it is just another/different hoop for us to jump through

instead of the casinos finding a better way for us to deposit.


Article:
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Youtube :
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Any help is greatly appreciated!
 

incrediblestuff

SearchingForTheHolyGrail!
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Location
Mostly the Netherlands
I followed the youtube link and it seems everything you need to know is in the video...all it says is to go to GDAX and make an account there, which apparently is exactly the same as CoinBase, except for the interface and fees...

Meaning that if you do a bit more work, then just clicking 'buy' or 'sell' you can trade with others for a marginal fee instead (within 0.5 according to the vid)
From the video i take it, that you just place a buy order, with a set limit of within 0.5 of the actual lowest price and then wait...

But, i don't use BTC myself, and am not planning to, so i can't guarantee or confirm anything: best thing to do is talk with your 3Dice friends that already tried, and have them tell you in a p.m.

Or go for it and 'experiment' yourself :)
It does appear to be very simple process:

Open GDax site, sign up for an account, put money in your Coinbase, and instantly transfer it to Gdax, buy BTC with a set limit of 0.5 less or more then the current average value and save a little bit of money (the service fees are less regardless, according to the guy in the vid, and if you do this apparently you are a maker, instead of a taker, which also should exempt you from other fees, as i understand it)
 

weesie

Ueber Meister
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Location
Old bag lady with a laptop
That's the way I took it too but since it tells you to fund coinbase first

then transfer to GDAX, a person will still have the "buy" fees from the

coinbase purchase.

Plus, they even say it is a bit more complicated and it definitely doesn't

say anything about a "timeline" for when the site you are sending btc to.

Many times with coinbase, aside from the privilege of paying ridiculous

ransom fees, it still takes up to 5 hours to see it in the casinos.

You never know if it will be instant or tomorrow!

Hoping someone with in-depth knowledge will post!
 

rena35

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Location
cyber space
I just wish there was a better way for us in the USA. Just seems like something could be put into place that works for both the casino and the player. Long ago i suggested a pre paid card from the casino that you can deposit and withdraw to. Just can't take the ransom/murder of those fees anymore :eek2:.
 

labeled

The eagle got Kevin!
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Location
Land of the "free"
We'll figure this out in stages? lol... I started by going to gdax and making sure my bank account was linked.

Today, I clicked "deposit" and selected "bank account" for $20. (Other options are bank wire, which has a $10 fee, coinbase, which is instant & free, or from a btc wallet. No fee information is given about wallet-to-gdax OR bank transfer, just that the bank transfer takes a few days.)

So now, we wait for the transfer to hit to see what the fee is/isn't. If it's lower than CB, then it makes sense to transfer your normal play money all at once before you need it.

This is copy & pasted from the "withdraw to btc address" page:
Enter a BTC address and the amount you wish to transfer from your GDAX trading account. BTC transfers are free and fast.

So presumably we can transfer to whatever btc addy we want, for free? Sounds too good to be true.

eta: Opened cb, it shows the pending $20 deposit. I'm... confused already. lol

I'll update when the funds hit gdax.
 

labeled

The eagle got Kevin!
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Location
Land of the "free"
Update: Coinbase shows the $20 pending deposit as heading to my usd account. So I'm assuming I'll then have to buy bit from that account, and that's where the video/link come in.
 

labeled

The eagle got Kevin!
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Location
Land of the "free"
Well, this is interesting.

Since my previous transfer is still pending, I decided to buy bit at CB this morning. $32. After cb took their fee, I had 29.81 in my CB account.

Transferred that instantly to gdax, then initiated a bit withdrawal to a, ahem, place of choice. It was free, and in my account there w/in a few minutes... the entire $29.81

I'd be interested to see if this works for anyone else, or if it's a fluke.
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
explain this to me.

Recently got a bit of news about how to save on fees.

I watched the youtube tutorial and read the article.

Just confuses me.

Can anyone explain this to me in laymans' terms, "idiot terms" if you prefer.

To me it is just another/different hoop for us to jump through

instead of the casinos finding a better way for us to deposit.


Article:
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Youtube :
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Any help is greatly appreciated!

Hey weesie,

Actually, BTC or any crypto currency IS the best way to deposit :) No all casinos support it at the moment, but big times are coming.
 

SlotMonster

Twitch Streamer - Affiliate
webmeister
Joined
Apr 2, 2007
Location
Belarus
That's the way I took it too but since it tells you to fund coinbase first then transfer to GDAX, a person will still have the "buy" fees from the coinbase purchase.

Plus, they even say it is a bit more complicated and it definitely doesn't say anything about a "timeline" for when the site you are sending btc to.

Many times with coinbase, aside from the privilege of paying ridiculous ransom fees, it still takes up to 5 hours to see it in the casinos.

You never know if it will be instant or tomorrow!

Hoping someone with in-depth knowledge will post!

Have you found their step-by-step guyde?

Here’s a clearer version broken down for you:

Step 1) Sign up and complete verification with Coinbase
Step 2) Link your bank account to Coinbase and deposit money from your bank into Coinbase
Step 3) Sign up and complete verification with GDAX
Step 4) Transfer money from Coinbase to your GDAX account; it should appear instantly (they share the same back-end)
Step 5) Go to GDAX and make a trade using the trading window on the left-hand side of your screen; make a limit order, and you’ll pay no fees whatsoever (if you make a market order, you’ll pay a 0.3% fee)


Also, Gdax has much lower fees: Outdated URL (Invalid)
 

labeled

The eagle got Kevin!
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Location
Land of the "free"
OK, long weekend over, time to update on my bank transfer experience.

I initiated my $20 bank transfer on the 17th. On the 20th it was debited via ACH from my bank. On the 24th I rec'd it into my gdax USD wallet. (A full 7 days, BUT I started this buy on a Friday afternoon and the Thanksgiving holiday was Thursday.)

On the 25th I placed a "buy" order (I didn't do any of the advice about scrolling thru and picking the lowest fee, etc... I just went to gdax and clicked "buy" for the $20. (as of this point, I've had zero fees taken from the transfer.)

The buy was executed, and I had $19.95 usd equivalent in my bit account. There was literally a 5 cent fee to buy the bit.

So now, after bit has gone nuts the past few days, I have the usd equivalent of $22.25 in my gdax bit account.

Did a btc transfer into a playing account & rec'd 22.17 into my cas account instantly.

So from start to finish a bank transfer took a while to process, and I made money in the end because of rising btc values, BUT more important than that, appear to have "lost" about .13 along the way.

ETA: Conclusion, no harder than buying bit any other way and it might convince me to plan ahead w/my budgeting rather than do day-by-day. I usually buy btc w/a card, instantly, but man, it is NICE not losing before I even start playing. ;)
 

AlexJamesSmith

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Location
Brighton, United Kingdom
explain this to me.

Recently got a bit of news about how to save on fees.

I watched the youtube tutorial and read the article.

Just confuses me.

Can anyone explain this to me in laymans' terms, "idiot terms" if you prefer.

To me it is just another/different hoop for us to jump through

instead of the casinos finding a better way for us to deposit.


Article:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.



Youtube :
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Any help is greatly appreciated!

Are you talking about the fees associated with actually buying the BTC, or the fees with sending them?

It seems there's a few people asking similar things, so hopefully this helps - i'll cover both below.

1) Exchange Fees

Exchanges (places you can buy and sell Bitcoins) will sometimes take a fee from your actual purchase. So, if you purchased £100 of Bitcoin, the amount you actually get, could be - for example, £98. (The exchange take a 2% fee.) This varies a lot from exchange to exchange, but it generally isn't something that'll see you lose much!

Now, what I THINK you're probably talking about, is the transaction fees.

2) Bitcoin Transaction Fees

When you send a BTC transaction, it goes - as I'm sure you know - through a series of confirmations. This is basically where miners on the Blockchain are checking all the cryptologic hashes are right etc etc to prevent double spending (being able to send multiple transactions while only being credited for one.)

Now, the speed at which your BTC are confirmed depends on a lot of things - the status of the Blockchain network being one of the biggest factors - but you can also set a 'fee', to either increase the speed at which your payment is made (increasing the fee), or, if you prefer to save money, you can lower the fee (for longer confirmations.)

Now the important thing to note, is that not ALL exchanges and BTC wallets allow you to set fees. LocalBitcoin, for example, doesn't - I'm not sure about CoinBase. Block Wallet DOES - and most local wallets (wallets stored on your computer) will allow you to set a fee.

If you get into the habbit of increasing the fee to speed up your transaction, just make sure you don't set the fee to use too much of your BTC. (I've seen people send $100 of BTC, but set the fee so that $50 OF that, is paid in fees. This generally applies when the Blockchain is very busy, so don't worry too much. Just always double-check your transitions before sending them.

Does that help at all? Let me know if you have any other questions!
 

AlexJamesSmith

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Location
Brighton, United Kingdom
OK, long weekend over, time to update on my bank transfer experience.

I initiated my $20 bank transfer on the 17th. On the 20th it was debited via ACH from my bank. On the 24th I rec'd it into my gdax USD wallet. (A full 7 days, BUT I started this buy on a Friday afternoon and the Thanksgiving holiday was Thursday.)

On the 25th I placed a "buy" order (I didn't do any of the advice about scrolling thru and picking the lowest fee, etc... I just went to gdax and clicked "buy" for the $20. (as of this point, I've had zero fees taken from the transfer.)

The buy was executed, and I had $19.95 usd equivalent in my bit account. There was literally a 5 cent fee to buy the bit.

So now, after bit has gone nuts the past few days, I have the usd equivalent of $22.25 in my gdax bit account.

Did a btc transfer into a playing account & rec'd 22.17 into my cas account instantly.

So from start to finish a bank transfer took a while to process, and I made money in the end because of rising btc values, BUT more important than that, appear to have "lost" about .13 along the way.

ETA: Conclusion, no harder than buying bit any other way and it might convince me to plan ahead w/my budgeting rather than do day-by-day. I usually buy btc w/a card, instantly, but man, it is NICE not losing before I even start playing. ;)

Also, to add to this - you will always pay more to buy BTC with a credit/debit card than a bank transfer. Credit/Debit Cards are far-more likely to chargebacks for the BTC exchanges, hence the higher fees. (Same with PayPal - buy £100 of BTC with PayPal, and you may recieve only around £80 worth!)

To minimize this, ideally, use cash - but that's far too much effort for most, me included lol - so try to use a direct bank transfer (ones that complete instantly) for the smallest fees!
 

labeled

The eagle got Kevin!
Joined
Mar 22, 2011
Location
Land of the "free"
Are you talking about the fees associated with actually buying the BTC, or the fees with sending them?

It seems there's a few people asking similar things, so hopefully this helps - i'll cover both below.

1) Exchange Fees

Exchanges (places you can buy and sell Bitcoins) will sometimes take a fee from your actual purchase. So, if you purchased £100 of Bitcoin, the amount you actually get, could be - for example, £98. (The exchange take a 2% fee.) This varies a lot from exchange to exchange, but it generally isn't something that'll see you lose much!

Now, what I THINK you're probably talking about, is the transaction fees.

2) Bitcoin Transaction Fees

When you send a BTC transaction, it goes - as I'm sure you know - through a series of confirmations. This is basically where miners on the Blockchain are checking all the cryptologic hashes are right etc etc to prevent double spending (being able to send multiple transactions while only being credited for one.)

Now, the speed at which your BTC are confirmed depends on a lot of things - the status of the Blockchain network being one of the biggest factors - but you can also set a 'fee', to either increase the speed at which your payment is made (increasing the fee), or, if you prefer to save money, you can lower the fee (for longer confirmations.)

Now the important thing to note, is that not ALL exchanges and BTC wallets allow you to set fees. LocalBitcoin, for example, doesn't - I'm not sure about CoinBase. Block Wallet DOES - and most local wallets (wallets stored on your computer) will allow you to set a fee.

If you get into the habbit of increasing the fee to speed up your transaction, just make sure you don't set the fee to use too much of your BTC. (I've seen people send $100 of BTC, but set the fee so that $50 OF that, is paid in fees. This generally applies when the Blockchain is very busy, so don't worry too much. Just always double-check your transitions before sending them.

Does that help at all? Let me know if you have any other questions!

I'm going to piggyback onto your post as well, Alex. I suspect that Weesie suspects that the casino itself, or the processor it uses to complete a bitcoin transfer, charges a further fee.

Weesie, lmk if this is what you're thinking: You buy bit from CBase and get charged a fee for buying. Then you sent it somewhere, and CB charges a fee to send it. Then the receiving party's processor charges a fee to complete the send? Is that about right? (This is based on convos we've had, and another post you made.)

IF that's so, it's my understanding that no, this isn't like what we're "used to" with depositing. We're used to having that 3rd party processor take a cut to make the payment possible. (Like any merchant fee at a brick & mortar when you use a card, the only diff is that brick & mortars take the fee-hit on their end, casinos trained us to take the hit instead.)

What we're doing now is completely different (based only on the two groups I deposit with, 3d & bovada, et al). We're moving bit directly from point A (ie, coinbase or a separate bit wallet like blockchain.info) to point B, the casino. The fees are based solely on our outgoing "sender." So if you use Cbase, you're at the mercy of what they consider a reasonable/reliable send-fee. If you use a separate wallet as Alex mentioned, you can usually adjust the fee. The fee is what makes it attractive to miners to send your bit along the chain.

Clear as mud?
 

AlexJamesSmith

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 10, 2016
Location
Brighton, United Kingdom
I'm going to piggyback onto your post as well, Alex. I suspect that Weesie suspects that the casino itself, or the processor it uses to complete a bitcoin transfer, charges a further fee.

Weesie, lmk if this is what you're thinking: You buy bit from CBase and get charged a fee for buying. Then you sent it somewhere, and CB charges a fee to send it. Then the receiving party's processor charges a fee to complete the send? Is that about right? (This is based on convos we've had, and another post you made.)

IF that's so, it's my understanding that no, this isn't like what we're "used to" with depositing. We're used to having that 3rd party processor take a cut to make the payment possible. (Like any merchant fee at a brick & mortar when you use a card, the only diff is that brick & mortars take the fee-hit on their end, casinos trained us to take the hit instead.)

What we're doing now is completely different (based only on the two groups I deposit with, 3d & bovada, et al). We're moving bit directly from point A (ie, coinbase or a separate bit wallet like blockchain.info) to point B, the casino. The fees are based solely on our outgoing "sender." So if you use Cbase, you're at the mercy of what they consider a reasonable/reliable send-fee. If you use a separate wallet as Alex mentioned, you can usually adjust the fee. The fee is what makes it attractive to miners to send your bit along the chain.

Clear as mud?

This is pretty much correct - however, the only caveat with this (and this is me speculating, I don't know for sure) - is that if the casino doesn't have their OWN BTC payment system in place (for example, bitcasino.io DO - meaning they handle the deposits, withdrawals, without any need for a third party processors (i.e. a BTC equivalent of Worldpay), then you MAY be charged a fee to deposit.

Having said that - 1), I am yet to hear of BTC casinos using a BTC payment processor rather than integrating it into their system themselves, and 2) even if they were to use a BTC processor, I would be surprised if the fees were passed on to your as consumer.

Remember, casinos want to inscentivize players to use BTC - it completely eliminates the need for Worldpay, and other payment processors (many of which will hold a portion of funds for 60, 90, even 180 days to minimize fraud) - so it's really win-win, for both player, and casino.

Any other BTC-related questions feel free to shoot them over - I'll get to them when I see them!

Alex
 
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