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Nationality, Citizenship or Residency?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by loganberry, Aug 19, 2007.

    Aug 19, 2007
  1. loganberry

    loganberry Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    No more Heroes
    I apologise if this has been discussed elsewhere in the forum, but I have not been able to find any related threads.

    When casinos ban players from certain countries, do they mean all nationals, including citizens, of that country, or anyone who happens to be a resident?

    There is a world of difference between the terms nationals/citizens and residents; although nationals/citizens can be residents of a country, residents are not necessarily nationals/citizens. And don't even get me started on domicile! :rolleyes:

    To clarify:

    Nationality usually refers to the country of birth.

    Citizenship is usually granted by a government to a national of another country who wishes to make that country their home, usually through immigration.

    A resident is someone who lives in a particular country, but may or may not be either a national or a citizen.

    Therefore if a casino is banning all US players, (and using Bryan as an example here), does that mean he does not have the right to play at any casino on his accredited list, even though he is now a resident of Germany, rather than the USA, although he still (presumably) retains US nationality/citizenship?

    Another example: BlueSquare are banning Australians, but does this mean all Australian nationals/citizens, irrespective of the country of residency, or anyone who is resident in Australia, irrespective of nationality/citizenship?

    In either case, if the exclusion is based on nationality/citizenship, then that means that foreign residents in those countries are eligible to play, while their next-door Australian/USA neighbour cannot. And Australians/Americans who have not darkened their country's doorstep for years, and who are resident in other countries, are also banned, while their next-door neighbours can play.

    This all seems rather nonsensical. :confused:

    Is anyone out there able to clarify the position?
     
  2. Aug 19, 2007
  3. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    I can answer that

    It means that Bryan cannot gamble online legally if he lives in AZ or 12 other states, but since he lives in Germany, he can gamble.

    It is where you live, not where you're born. Do you know how crazy that would be for the govt to determine where you were born in order to find out if you can gamble? Think about it!

    Hope this helps

    Here is just another example: At one time drinking age in NJ (USA) was 18, In PA (just over the bridge is 21 to drink) People in PA could drive over the bridge to NJ at age 18 and drink (they could get arrested once they drove back over the bridge and get pulled over by a cop) BUT...NJ residents could not drive over the bridge if they were 18 and drink because the drinking age is 21 even though it's legal for them to drink at 18 in their own stare
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2007
    1 person likes this.
  4. Aug 19, 2007
  5. ssgtsnelly

    ssgtsnelly Quit Gambling PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    MI5 :P
    Location:
    UK
    i would have thought that if you are a US citizen but live in say the UK or Germany as descrivbed then you are no longer governed by US gambling laws and should be free to play, i dont think ive played a casino where it has asked for a nationality or citizenship proof s part of the sign up. id see it as if you are American and you live in Germany and you commit a crime then you are punishable by German law and not American law (unless its treason or whatever)
    i thionk your only barrier may be if you are tryng to draw funds from a US bank or othger funding option, but i would imagine that if you live abroad chances are you have a bank account in that country anyways so you should be fine.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Aug 19, 2007
  7. loganberry

    loganberry Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    No more Heroes
    Sorry, but no, it doesn't. You have missed the point. :oops:

    No, but you will have seen a list of banned countries!!!!

    My question has nothing to do with the government, or US gambling laws - I am not American - but the way in which casinos themselves decide what are the criteria for banning players. Nationality? Citizenship? Residency?

    What I am trying to ascertain is when they ban players from certain countries, are they banning the country and everyone it in, or only the citizens/nationals from that country.

    Another example....players from Denmark. Is that players from Denmark, or players in Denmark.

    And the reason behind all of this? Cashouts. My country is banned from gambling at a certain casino, but I gamble there because I don't live in my country. However does this mean that when I present my passport as ID I will be told....sorry, but you are a player from a banned country, so we will confiscate your winnings as you should not have been playing!
     
  8. Aug 19, 2007
  9. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    Loganberry

    It makes a huge difference. If they ban Denmark, they are banning the country not the person. I understand what you are saying but I am right.

    If gaming is illegal in Denmark and you have an Italian citizenship, it doesnt matter, you cannot cash the check in Denmark. It has nothing to do with your nationality. It has to do with where you reside at the time you want to gamble and withdrawl.

    Infact, If Im right, Let's say I take my laptop to Singapore to visit my brother and it's legal there but not where I live in the USA. My bank is located in the USA where I reside and I still could not cashout unless I change my resident status and banking info to Singapore and can PROVE that I live there
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Aug 19, 2007
  11. loganberry

    loganberry Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Consultant
    Location:
    No more Heroes
    Gaming is not illegal in Denmark. For some reason, it is regarded as a hive of fraudulent gaming activity, which is why many casinos ban Danish players. :confused:

    Hmmm. They all seem like such nice gentlemen, too. :D

    Thanks for that clarification. Phew! :p

    This is what I also believe it should be....it's just that Bryan's blanket statement about BlueSqCasino not accepting any Australians rather threw me, which is why I began this thread, as I didn't want to end up in the position of being regarded as a national from a banned country, rather than a resident of an unbanned country. And I'll leave the semantics of that to some-one else this time. :lolup:

    Cheers.
     
  12. Aug 19, 2007
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Casinos seem to regard the ban in the widest possible sense.
    While a player from a banned country can play when resident in another country, the trouble starts when they are asked for documents. This has already happened. Most likely, the casino will believe fraud has been attempted to enable a banned player to play, and will still seek to confiscate winnings.
    Initial detection is by IP address, and registered address. If these seem OK, then play will be allowed, but when they ask for ID at cashout, they will suspect fraud if this ID shows the player is really a CITIZEN of a banned country. A Passport is the one that causes most trouble, as these are usually issued from the country of origin, usually where a player was born, and even when someone becomes resident elsewhare, they retain this passport until they are granted full citizenship of their new country of residence.
    Players in this situation are prone to trouble at casinos, depending on how uptight their security people are, and rogues will happily use such circumstances to withold payment.
    Such players are probably better off getting their full documentation pre-approved by the casino BEFORE playing, and get it in writing.
     
    2 people like this.
  14. Aug 19, 2007
  15. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Residency is what counts.

    For example, smoking pot is illegal in most cases in the US. It is not illegal in Holland if you are smoking in a licensed coffeeshop.

    Another example - it is illegal to gamble in Utah, but it is not illegal for a person born in Utah to gamble in Nevada.
     
    3 people like this.
  16. Aug 21, 2007
  17. dazlazz

    dazlazz Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Prophet
    Location:
    London, UK
    Danish players

    Hi folks,

    Just picking up on one of the points re: not including Danish players. I think what you will find is that Danish players are generally accepted in online casinos, but are not eligible for any deposit match bonuses - the thinking behind this, is that the players are actually too good at clearing the bonuses!

    It started about 5-6 years ago, and as a lot of online casinos simply copy their content / T&Cs from other sites, they have simply continued with this ban, with a few other countries i.e. Ukraine, China etc.

    As regards residence - it is actually the country which you are registered living in which applies to bans etc

    Regards,

    Dazzla
     
  18. Aug 21, 2007
  19. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    what if you live in an allowed country but play from within a banned country while on vacation? would you have to go home to initiate the cashout? :thumbsup:
     
  20. Aug 21, 2007
  21. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    Danish players was banned because of bonus hunters and not fraud. In the good old days with huge BJ bonus and low wagering requirement it was
    very easy to make good money. A few danish portal sites emerged telling people excactly what to do. Play BJ here and here, and use this optimal
    BJ chart. Because a lot of people did make money it also got attention by the TV/newspapers etc. If it is too good to be true, it normally is not true - but in this case it was true. With all this media attention even more people became aware of this opportunity.

    Whenever a casino offered a BJ bonus they got surged by waves of danish bonus hunters, and today danish people still suffer from this. I had to mail INetBet to open an account (with no signup bonus of course) etc. If the casinos had just removed BJ was from the bonus, most of the danish players would not have been able to make money there. They were not interested in gambling, only the money, and they were only able to play optimal because of the easy to follow BJ-charts.

    These BJ bonuses did finance a lot of college students, so they money came to good use :)


    Zoozie
     
  22. Aug 21, 2007
  23. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    I think you would be asking for trouble if you tried to play from a banned country. I said residency is what counts - but actually, it's your physical location that counts.
     
  24. Aug 21, 2007
  25. dazlazz

    dazlazz Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Prophet
    Location:
    London, UK
    Nationality

    Dear Happygobrokey,

    If you reside in an allowed country you can play. If you are on vaction in a banned country but reside in a banned country, then you could still play but some casino payment service providers i.e. trustmarque would prevent automated deposits or withdrawals becuase of the IP.

    Solution is to deposit before you go on vaction, so you have funds to play with and either request withdrawal on return to allowed country or request the relevant finance dept to 'force' through a withdrawal say back to your card.

    It really depends on the casino and which payment processers they use - something like Trustmarque and cybersource enables the casino finance / fraud teams to force through relevant card deposits / withdrawals at their discression.

    Best regards,

    Dazzla
     
  26. Aug 21, 2007
  27. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    I think you meant "vacation in a banned country but reside in a legal country" - if so then you are incorrect. Not only do many providers block access from banned countries, you are also likely to be breaking the law and the operator also breaking the law by accepting your play. And even if you did manage to play, you would probably be breaching the casino's terms and conditions.
     
  28. Aug 21, 2007
  29. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    Im not trying to start anything but....

    Isnt that discrimination to the danish? I mean, how can you say one group of people are bonus abusers? Im not arguing with the person that wrote it, I believe you. Im just saying, how can someone determine that a WHOLE COUNTRY are abusing bonuses? Dont most of us want bonuses? For me, I dont take them but that's just wierd to me that a casino would say "We don't let danish people play here or take bonuses"

    I also notice alot of sites say Italians or Chinese are excluded. That is so stupid. Why cant they take one individual at a time ins?tead excluding the whole country
     
  30. Aug 21, 2007
  31. dazlazz

    dazlazz Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Prophet
    Location:
    London, UK
    Nationality

    Hi Babs, like i said earlier - most of the casinos are like sheep, and because a lot of companies simply copy the main T&Cs from other casinos, it means this Danish ban on bonuses remains commonplace.

    Maybe there is a casino out there who can accomodate the Danish?

    Any casino reps watching, or are you still on MSN all day long...? :=)

    Regards,

    Dazzla
     
  32. Aug 22, 2007
  33. babs7262

    babs7262 Banned User

    Occupation:
    On Disability,p/t online slots reviewer
    Location:
    PA
    Hey Casinos????

    Guess What?

    You dont like bonus abusers and gamers dont like having 2 straight weeks of losses BUT guess what?

    That's frikin life!!!!!!

    get a pair and make your own T&C instead of copying them! Be the one that is different. Dont give a whole country a bad name because of a few bad apples. And no, I'm not biased, I dont even think I have personally met a Danish unless you count their baked goods!
     
  34. Aug 23, 2007
  35. quber

    quber Senior Member

    Occupation:
    spy
    Location:
    Europe
    whether you can play depends on a couple of factors player location and bank location

    a US citizen would be able to play if he was in the UK, however he wouldn't be able to fund his casino account using a US bank account, if he funded it via a European account he would be fine.
     
  36. Aug 23, 2007
  37. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    i ban americans from my home because a few of them are meth heads and trigger-happy gun-toters. and i reserve the right to do this. :thumbsup:
     

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