My underage son gambled on sportingbet.com

[moraaltjedd]

Been a few days since I read the initial posts so could you please refresh my memory on if the casino et al has unequivocally acknowledged and/or validated that the wager was in fact underaged. Thanks!

No, casino did not even try to validate this; they did not ask for any sort of documentation. Not in the beginning, and not now. I just get the feeling they want to keep the money, and they don't care if the money is from an underage boy, or from an adult.

 

[playklax01]

No, casino did not even try to validate this; they did not ask for any sort of documentation. Not in the beginning, and not now. I just get the feeling they want to keep the money, and they don't care if the money is from an underage boy, or from an adult.

While I don't believe this was stated, and I totally doubt it could be true, was it validated that your son registered with with both Neteller and the casino with his true date of birth that would make him 16?

 

[Mavin1]

I think as a parent, you should review some of the threads in the Quit Gambling section. It can be very starkly honest where addictions can take a person. If your son had done this and is only age 16, then he obviously is developing a serious foundation for some major addictions to gambling and other possible negative activities.

Also if you have inadvertently introduced him to online gambling then you need to change how you are doing things. Such as playing when your child is not there watching or seeing you do it. It's no different than smoking parents, they will usually create smoking children, alcoholic parents, alcoholic children, drug parents, drug children.

I have never had the pleasure of being blessed with children of my own, but I do feel that they are already at a great disadvantage these days with the garbage they face everyday in the world outside the home. Children should be raised with great care and be able to see their parents as not looking like the rest of the world. This is not to say a parent is or has to be perfect, only to think of what your children see you do and understand that you are their first and most prominent influence in their lives.

Anyways, here is just one post in the Quit Gambling forum that should be read as one example just how bad things can get. If a young adult starts early in life, then it could be 10x worse than this post.


I never knew until now

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GA is where I belong, I just got done reading the GA page and I am sick to my stomach. How can I be so stupid, how could I have lost so much money, how could I hurt my family, this pain is unbearable. I read all the signs of a gambler and I fit everyone to a tee, why was I so blind. I'm 42 years old, I had so much money from an inheritance, I had no mortgage, no credit cards, no car payments and now I sit hear with a mortgage, and a car payment and no one to blame but myself. I was doing so good with my wins, cashing out, paying off credits cards, etc. and it sucked me right in, I won so much and now I sit here and see what I really won, "nothing" The more I won the more I played and when I lost I needed money to play so I turned to the good old refinancing the house. What the hell was I thinking. How could I have been so stupid. I sit here and read some of the threads and I want to be sick, I just joined last night to put in a complaint about 2 casinos (which are true, so stay away), and the more I read the more I hate myself. I don't like me right now, I'm not sure if I'm glad I found this site or happy that I realized before it's really to late, if it's not to late already. How do I get back all I lost, my self esteem, my dignity, how do I get it all back. How do I not go back to gambling, how do I lose this urge. I know it's killing me but yet I'm gonna miss the rush of seeing those 4 of a kinds pop up, they are so hard to get and when I got them, oh boy, not to mention the royal flushes at 25.00 a hand, yet the weird thing is I would rather see the 4 of a kind only winning 800.00 then to see the royal and winning 25,000.00, what the hell is my problem. And now I sit here reading all about the terrible casinos and how a lot of casinos don't pay you, plus I just went through the same thing with 2 casinos and I still want to play. I am so confused, so frustrated. I use to get so mad at my dad when he gambled and now I sit here and do the same. I hated him for it and now I hate myself. I hope I make it through this, I can always make the money I work very hard but will I ever get past the pain of guilt? thanks for hearing me vent, I needed it

Parents, take care of your children, for no one else will.

 

[GOCC]

While we are all being told that the Terms and Conditions are god, Sportingbets are

3. Age Restrictions

3.1 Sportingbet only accepts bets from clients over the age of 18. The right to void any transactions with minors or defaulters is reserved.


This term, in my basic legal opinion is unlawful. They obviously, by this statement, acknowledge that it is possible to by pass whatever their own Age Verification process is to place a bet; but then they go to say be reserve the right to void underage bets. Well unfortunately their is no right, its law. As you cannot accept bets from a minor.

Im not supporting the OP but the terms cover the situation.

 

[Kenny Lingus]

I am going to qualify my opinion in a couple of ways before I spout off.

First of all, my comments are made with the stipulation - at least in regards to the situation at hand - that the OP was telling the truth. Second of all, I would agree that if the info is indeed true, the child should be dealt with by the parents in an appropriately stern manner.

Now on to my rash opinions and the "facts" as I see them:

He may not be a criminal, but whenever you knowingly lie when filling out a contract - that's fraud.

Not in the legal sense. At least here in the states, a minor cannot legally enter into a contract for any reason; the "contract" as such is legally invalid, and the other party involved could be held liable for endangering the minor. In this case, Neteller could certainly be in legal hot water.

For a parallel example, say a website published a nude photo of your 16 year old daughter, then claimed that she used a fake ID to "prove" she was 18. Depending on the circumstances, the website could be in big trouble. And actually, if negligent, the parents of the minor could face criminal charges as well.

I must also say I am shocked to hear very little from most of you on the casino's responsibility. As I have maintained before pertaining to the "onerous docs required in order to cashout" type of issues, a casino should ask for appropriate verification BEFORE accepting ones deposit. If they choose not to, or if they are fooled into inappropriatly accepting money from a minor, they should expect nothing less than to refund any money received under such circumstances, lest they be guilty of "irresponsible acquisition of ill gotten gains" or something legal sounding like that. It goes with the territory, boys!

Finally, to hear many of you wanting to figuratively "lynch" the child of the OP for what he had done, I can only shake my head and mumble "hypocrites", particularily of those of you who hail from the states. I'll bet most of you break at least a law or two in your jurisdiction every time you gamble online.........

 

[all4greed]

...Not in the legal sense. At least here in the states, a minor cannot legally enter into a contract for any reason; the "contract" as such is legally invalid, and the other party involved could be held liable for endangering the minor. In this case, Neteller could certainly be in legal hot water.

Point made. This could be the get out of jail free card.

Is it right to go this route? I don't think so. There's a thing called responsibility whether it be on his or his parents shoulders. He knew he was doing something illegal and wrong. The parents are ultimately responsible for a minor child.

If he had been winning, this most likely wouldn't be an issue and the money would have be happily accepted...

 

[BingoT]

I have already punished my son for his actions, for example, I won't give him access to the computer for the coming weeks.

That's all.I would be way harder than that.
It's to easy to play on mommy or daddy's acct if he what's to do that if he goes that route if he gets on the computer.
I just like to know if you heard more on this & what they tell you.

 

[moraaltjedd]

Point made. This could be the get out of jail free card.

Is it right to go this route? I don't think so. There's a thing called responsibility whether it be on his or his parents shoulders. He knew he was doing something illegal and wrong. The parents are ultimately responsible for a minor child.

If he had been winning, this most likely wouldn't be an issue and the money would have be happily accepted...

I've been told that if he had won, he would always have been checked on his age. I've also read some strict verification proccesses on this site. So your last sentence just can't be true. They would have said: you won, but, you're underage. So you won't get your winnings. It's a win-win situation for such an online casino. They always get the money of the underage person.

And in reply to BingoT: I haven't heard anything anymore from them. I guess, with this chat conversation, they find this case to be closed. To be honest, I don't think these guys feel any responsibility for an underage bet placed, they only smell the money.. That's what makes me angry.

 

[darkpixie]

I agree that if you can substantiate that a Minor indeed placed the bets and did the deposit the money should be refunded.

However I ALSO agree that the parents in this case are out of their minds if they allow the Minor to KEEP the money.

Neither party should be in receipt of these funds and they SHOULD be donated to a worthy cause. How bout Gamblers Anonymous for starters....

To the op, if you recoup the cash we would love to know where the money goes.

 

[racefanrob]

Back on the gambling addiction part of this. I can assure you that it is real and it is very hard to break. it wrecks lives for sure and I hope that none of us here have to go through it (or go through it again). It is awful and if you catch it early it will save you so don't think you are above it. None of us are.

 

[manofsteel]

must also say I am shocked to hear very little from most of you on the casino's responsibility. As I have maintained before pertaining to the "onerous docs required in order to cashout" type of issues, a casino should ask for appropriate verification BEFORE accepting ones deposit. If they choose not to, or if they are fooled into inappropriatly accepting money from a minor, they should expect nothing less than to refund any money received under such circumstances, lest they be guilty of "irresponsible acquisition of ill gotten gains" or something legal sounding like that. It goes with the territory, boys!

In a perfect world, businesses would always do the right thing. They would be environmentally friendly, they would always be fair, the list goes on. Unfortunately, this is of course not the case and government regulation is required to ensure that businesses behave.

We can talk about how the casino should do this or that until we are blue in the face, but it's really the licensing jurisdiction which needs to ensure the casino is doing the right thing. Verification is a pain in the ass for the player and casino's likely lose players by requiring new signups to go through this process. In this highly competitive industry, most casino's probably aren't going to do much more than the minimum required to pass the requirements from their licensing jurisdictions. Requiring docs on cashing out rather than on signing up is better for the casino because the casino has already gained the player and the deposit.

Underage players don't care so much about how reputable a casino is as long as that casino has loose enough verification standards to allow him/her to play. Because there are so many different jurisdictions online casino's operate from, I think the industry really needs some sort of international organization which could set a global standard and have some power to do its own investigation and enforcement (fines, etc.)

So, I guess in this case, the best way to go would be to contact the licensing jurisdiction.

 

[Mavin1]

The idea of making newly registered players forward all docs before depositing and playing is just ridiculous. There are many casinos a player will try, some once, some a few times, but may decide not to continue depositing at that casino.
Why in the heck should we have to send our personal and financial information to every single casino we try out? Just because one or two children have managed to fraud their way into such a venue?
I personally don't want my information out there at every casino on the planet, do you?

 

[Kenny Lingus]

Point made. This could be the get out of jail free card.

Is it right to go this route? I don't think so. There's a thing called responsibility whether it be on his or his parents shoulders. He knew he was doing something illegal and wrong. The parents are ultimately responsible for a minor child.

If he had been winning, this most likely wouldn't be an issue and the money would have be happily accepted...

The idea of making newly registered players forward all docs before depositing and playing is just ridiculous. There are many casinos a player will try, some once, some a few times, but may decide not to continue depositing at that casino.
Why in the heck should we have to send our personal and financial information to every single casino we try out? Just because one or two children have managed to fraud their way into such a venue?
I personally don't want my information out there at every casino on the planet, do you?

all4greed, if you read my post carefully, I said: "I would agree that if the info is indeed true, the child should be dealt with by the parents in an appropriately stern manner."

But this is not a parenting forum, but a gambling one, and my post was tailored as such. I think that most agree that the minor child should have to deal with consequences for their actions. But ultimately this is to be the parents call, and I maintain that is how it should be.

But in a legal sense, what should happen? At least in the states, the answer is quite clear to me; both Neteller and the casino are at fault. It is absolutely their responsibility to make sure this type of thing doesn't happen.

It is here that Mavin's post needs to be addressed. Simply, it is not the player's call as to what verifications happen or when. The only thing you can do is not play at a site which you think goes overboard on this issue.

Now, I have seen many, many complaints in this forum about required documentation, particularily at cashout, and the abuses that occur. I for one would gladly submit my docs up front, for once and for all, if I knew that my cashouts were going to be processed swiftly and without hassle should I win.

Further, should (or more accurately, when) the US government legislates legal online gambling, don't you think that up front verification might be a real possibility? I can't imagine the politicians accepting a system that begs for an underage player to weasel their way into an active account.

To me, this is above all a moral issue. Does anyone really want to side with a predatory institution over an underaged kid?

Lest you say that I am being unfair with my bracketing, I'll bring up another parallel example:

Your 17 year old son goes into a liquor store and manages to buy a case of beer. After he and his friends drink it all, they are involved in a fatal car crash. Now, what is your primary respone? To say, "He got what was coming to him, he was wrong to illegally buy the beer", or to say "That liquor store should have NEVER allowed him to buy alchohol, we must make sure that it never happens again?" I say, as a member of society, the second reaction is the appropriate one to focus on.

 

[Mavin1]

There is no amount of rules, regulations, documents, that is put upon the people that will hinder those that are lawless by nature, doesn't matter if they are a child or an adult, if they have it in them to break the rules, they will find a way to do so.

It is no different than the idea of a National ID, supposedly being forced on the public to protect us from terrorsits, when in reality it is nothing more than excessive personal control over individuals rights. You think you're safer with the new ID, well google walmart and their new scanners, they can read your information off your ID through your pocket or purse and it goes into thier data base.

Children/adults, still drink, use drugs, steal, murder, rape, fraud, destroy property and so on, no amount of laws or restrictions has ever stopped any criminal behavior. The more stringent the laws, rules and regulations on anything and everything only effects the law abidding people, not those that seek to break the law.

So if I, as a responsible adult want to try a casino that today may be hailed as a respectable place to play, then tomorrow it turns rogue or goes belly up, I don't want my personal and financial information going with it.

Keep in mind, that if laws, regulations, restrictions and so on were really so effective, then who is living in the jails and prisons?

This is not to say I totally disagree with your point Kenny Lingus, just to say, there has to be a better way.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I've been told that if he had won, he would always have been checked on his age. I've also read some strict verification proccesses on this site. So your last sentence just can't be true. They would have said: you won, but, you're underage. So you won't get your winnings. It's a win-win situation for such an online casino. They always get the money of the underage person.

And in reply to BingoT: I haven't heard anything anymore from them. I guess, with this chat conversation, they find this case to be closed. To be honest, I don't think these guys feel any responsibility for an underage bet placed, they only smell the money.. That's what makes me angry.

This is the main argument for requiring casinos to refund all monies to minors who manage to bypass the checks. They could NEVER win, so therefore ALL bets should be void, NOT just the WINNING ones that trigger verification.

If casinos DID pay winning minors before banning them for being underage, then it WOULD be much easier for them to argue the case for keeping the money from LOSING bets placed by minors.

Often, it is an early positive experience from gambling that causes players to go on to be habitual gamblers, and some to go further to being addicted. An early NEGATIVE experience, like this kid had, should have the opposite effect, putting him off online gambling for some time, if not for life.

He should feel the loss of this €1500, rather than have the shelter of a parent just giving it back to him. He saved €1500 once, he can do it again, and will most likely be more careful about spending it.

Discuss with him what attracted him in the first place. It might have been misleading advertising, or all those spam messages that try to convince you that an income can be made from online gambling alone, and no "day job" is ever needed - a life of luxury. Casinos are responsible for this kind of advertising and spamming, either by design, or by "looking the other way" whilst their "marketing partners" bend and break the rules in order to get as many players lured in as possible.

 

[all4greed]

Mavin1 -

Pretty much right on with how I was going to respond.

I'm so tired of hearing people make excuses for teenagers instead of making them accountable. Blame this person, blame that person, but don't blame the person that engaged in the behavior.