My underage son gambled on sportingbet.com

moraaltjedd

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
The Netherlands
Dear everyone,

Maybe this is a weird story, but I'm going to post it anyway. My son, who is only 16 years old, registered on a casino/sportsbook site called Sportingbet.com.

He has spent 1500 euros of his savings money to this site. When he came crying downstairs to me, I contacted their support immediately. Support first told me that they will investigate this and contact Neteller about this. (He paid through Neteller.)

Now today, they said that there won't be a refund since Neteller would be liable for sending the funds and sportingbet.com accepting the bets of my son. I find this absolutely ridiculous. They want to keep the money of my underage son.

I have copied the chat I've had today (sorry for the long conversation). I'd like to hear your thoughts on this and what can I do best now? I feel pretty shocked about this as a parent and can't imagine what would be the best solution now.

Thanks in advance.

The chat of me with support today:

info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Saso'
Saso: Welcome! How may I assist you?
Saso: Hi Dirk.
Dirk Jacobus: Hello Saso. I was wondering what's going on right now.
Saso: I have received a reply and I am affraid I do not have a good news for you.
Saso: Our Accounts Managment have received a reply from neteller and have deceided that it was not Sportingbets liability the funds that your son had lost.
Saso: The reason being that he gave false information about his age when registering the Neteller account.
Dirk Jacobus: But he played on your site, right?
Saso: Yes, but AM have explained to me that once a customer is using a neteller account we assume that he is not a minor since he would noy have been able to register an account with a Netteler if he were.
Saso: The only possibility is when that person provides false information regarding his or her age.
Saso: When that happens, are liability stops.
Dirk Jacobus: Yes, but it is an underage child Saso. I dont understand that Account Management accepts that an underage child played on your site, and deposits his savings money
Dirk Jacobus: It can't be true that a casino wants money of an underage person?
Saso: The way they have explained is that we are vaild in asumption that the person is not an underage unless it provided false information.
Saso: But that would be something Neteller should deal with.
Dirk Jacobus: Of course Neteller should also block his account
Dirk Jacobus: But then, the money of my 16 years old boy is still with a gambling company
Dirk Jacobus: That's just not correct
Saso: Our warranty is Neteller, they shoul make sure that their users are not underage.
Saso: Once the money comes to us, we just assume it has been checked.
Saso: That is the explanation I was given, Dirk.
Saso: I am just a messenger here.
Dirk Jacobus: Okay, but then, if it appears that it's not money of someone older than 18, don't you then have the responsibility to say as a gambling company: We can't accept this?
Dirk Jacobus: That would be the most fair in such a situation when everything is clear about it
Saso: That is why we have closed his account.
Saso: But prior to that, he did register as over 18.
Dirk Jacobus: Okay, but then you just say: We see that he is underage, we close his account, but we keep the money for ourselves.
Saso: Money has been lost before.
Saso: Before we even knew that he was underage.
Saso: Money is gone.
Dirk Jacobus: Yes, but the bets are if we view it legal, invalid. Bets cant be placed by an underage according the law
Dirk Jacobus: They should never been accepted
Saso: Technically, at that moment bets were accepted from someone that claimed to be adult and register on our site as adult and even opened N Neteller account as adult.
Saso: Imagine a minor looking like a nadult and entering the night club with the fake ID.
Saso: The security's liability stops once he had used a fake ID to enter.
Dirk Jacobus: Well, but when they find out later on that night he is underage, he would get kicked out
Dirk Jacobus: After someone reports that
Saso: Exactly, that's why we closed an account. But the barman will not refund the money for the drinks he has drunk at that night club, correct?
Dirk Jacobus: That's correct. Because he can't give the drinks back. But a casino case and a bar case are very different. I mean, you would have always found out that a person is underage after a first security check. Neteller isn't liable for accepting your bets?
Dirk Jacobus: Because if Neteller would be the company that's liable for placing bets on your site, I have to argue with that with my lawyer
Saso: They should check the customers who are using their services.
Dirk Jacobus: But you as a merchant too.
Dirk Jacobus: It's not 100% liable of Neteller, agree?
Saso: It should have not com as far as us.
Saso: They are 100% liable for checking their customers, in my opinion.
Dirk Jacobus: But a nice comparison, what if my son just transfered the money straight away from his bank account?
Dirk Jacobus: Then he would play with it, I bet you would also say that you won't refund anything then..
Dirk Jacobus: Because it's just all about the money now for you..
Saso: No, because, it would show at registration that he is underage.
Saso: That ia what I am tryng to explain.
Dirk Jacobus: Of course not, if he had registered with the same details as now, okay.
Saso: We would have checked him automatically and he would not be able to do it.
Dirk Jacobus: Then he made a deposit NOT through Neteller
Saso: No, his bank details would have been checked or they would have to macth the details he had given while registering into Sportingbet.
Dirk Jacobus: Because it's easy to say this, but when a test person would do this (for example with my lawyer) and we see that there also is no check..
Saso: Once they do not match the deposit would have been rejected.
Dirk Jacobus: They would have matched, because the name of my son was just like on the bank account
Saso: You don't know that, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: there is never a check of date of birth with bank transfers Saso
Saso: You would be surprised at how many customers we check on, with phone call, URU or otherwise.
Saso: Again, I do undesrtand your situation here, sir. But i do not think that you will get a refund.
Dirk Jacobus: Okay. But when it's about big money, you can't deny that a company thinks: We can better accept it, and then when we see it was an underage player, just say this..
Dirk Jacobus: It's just the thought after this decision Saso
Dirk Jacobus: I just can't understand a casino wants money of an underage child..
Saso: As I said, I am just a messeneger and I have been talking with AM about that for last few days.
Dirk Jacobus: As that is clear now
Saso: But it seems to me that they are set on this decision and they will not change it.
Dirk Jacobus: And then yes, you can say it was through Neteller and they're liable, but you can also say that maybe if you had also done a check, he wouldn't have deposited at all and show a positive side of your company..
Dirk Jacobus: But I just have the feeling you want to keep money of my underage boy
Saso: We would not have done it because it comes through Neteller.
Saso: It seems that money will be kept, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: Yes but please, you keeping Neteller liable, it's not about the liability but about the thought that you as a casino have underage money
Dirk Jacobus: Isn't there any regulation commission for these cases?
Dirk Jacobus: I mean independent
Dirk Jacobus: Because you never can say this is independent
Saso: You will have to ask them, I am really not sure.
Dirk Jacobus: You only see the money side of this situation and not the human side..
Dirk Jacobus: Well, not you Saso, but the Account team
Saso: I don't think that decision will be of obligatory nature.
Saso: Regardless of what could be deceided.
Dirk Jacobus: So I could better contact Alderney Gambling Control Commission?
Dirk Jacobus: or the Malta Lotteries and Gaming Authority
Saso: I really do not know where to go, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: Saso do you say this because you don't want me to report this to them?
Dirk Jacobus: Can't you ask a collegue?
Saso: I suggest you get in touch with them and see if they are the one to handle tha tissue.
Dirk Jacobus: Yes, because a regulation commission makes obligatory decision, right?
Dirk Jacobus: and they are independent.
Saso: I really do not know and I am really not the one to give away any information of that nature even if i knew, sir.
Saso: I personally tried to help on a human klevel as much as I could, but now it is out of my hands, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: I understand Saso. But finally I have something that shocks me.
Dirk Jacobus: Please note that anyone under the age of 18 found to be gambling with SportingBet will have any winnings forfeited.
Dirk Jacobus: If my son would have won, then he would lose his winnings
Dirk Jacobus: that's just ridiculous..
Dirk Jacobus: and then he would got his original bet back..
Dirk Jacobus: So only when you would made a loss on this person you would make a decision in your own profit..
Saso: I didn't even know that. So money is lost anyway.
Saso: Money is lost from the moment he signed with false information.
Saso: That is pretty much it.
Dirk Jacobus: Says your account management..
Dirk Jacobus: But we don't know the decision of the independent 3th party yet
Saso: Perhaps, sir.
Saso: is there anything else I can do for you?
Dirk Jacobus: Also on many sites, when you search for underage gambling you can read the following Saso:
Dirk Jacobus: When you register to gamble with any payment method other than a credit card, the operator must carry out additional age checks to make sure you are over 18. This is because some forms of payment, for example debit cards, can be held by under-18s. No winnings should be paid to you until your age is verified. If, after 72 hours, the operator has not been able to verify your age, they should freeze your account until they are able to do so. If you are later found to be underage, your account will be closed. Your stakes will be returned to you, but you will not be paid any winnings.
Dirk Jacobus: especially the last part is important to me.
Dirk Jacobus: " If you are later found to be underage, your account will be closed. Your stakes will be returned to you, but you will not be paid any winnings. "
Dirk Jacobus: That's the best decision I suppose, for everyone. For the reputation of your company and for the underage child..
Saso: The AM decision is final, sir.
Dirk Jacobus: Well, not after a regulation commission changes that decision, Saso.
Dirk Jacobus: Then they are obligated to listen to that.
Saso: Until then, at least.
Dirk Jacobus: It could have been solved much quicker..
Dirk Jacobus: But I can't accept it when a company looks more to the financial aspect than the human aspect of an underage gambler.
Dirk Jacobus: It's just the wrong attitude of a company
 
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lottethedog

Newbie member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Location
Europe
I think sportingbet are right, it's not there responsibility - its that of neteller.

I am pretty surprised he's been able to do all this - fund and deposit as accounts normally need verifying.

Neteller only accepts persons over the age of 18, so they are the people you need speak with.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
I think you should be more concerned that your son falsely represented himself and thus could be liable for fraud.

While I sympathize with you and your son, I don't think it wise for you to pursue this any further - SB's explanation is quite reasonable even if we don't like the decision.
 

pokeraddict

Webmaster
Joined
Aug 3, 2002
Location
Las Vegas
I have to agree with the other poster here. The casinos could get completely scammed if every time someone lost they claimed they were underaged. In their position I could see why they were concerned here because this could be taken as a complete freeroll attempt by the player which every casino has been the victim of. This looks like a tough life lesson for your kid. Going to their regulators might be your only hope.
 

liquuid_fusion

Meister Member
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It's Alderney you need to contact if you want to take it to the regulator.
 

funeral979

Dormant account
PABaccred
Joined
Apr 4, 2008
Location
Texas
Im just curious as to why a 16 year old has a Neteller account? And you said these were his 'savings'? Why would a 16 year olds savings be in a Neteller account?

At any rate, we have seen situations like this before....about an underage gambler all of a sudden loses money, and then the 'parent' wants to try and recoup the losses. And it usually turns out that there was no one underage involved....just a frustrated gambler who lost more than they should have.

Im just saying...........
 

moraaltjedd

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
The Netherlands
So I have to contact a regulator?

And I understand the situation - but in a real casino my child also wouldn't be accepted to place a bet. So it's a no go for an online casino to accept it.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
So I have to contact a regulator?

And I understand the situation - but in a real casino my child also wouldn't be accepted to place a bet. So it's a no go for an online casino to accept it.

Most casinos - at least in the States - don't card you at the door. You could be a 16 year old who looks like 22 sitting at the slots and get away with it.

The thing is, you are making an extremely serious allegation. You could contact Alderney here:

Alderney
Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC)
St Anne's House,
Queen Elizabeth II Street,
Alderney,
Channel Islands,
GY9 3TB
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

info@agcc.gg
Phone:
+ 44 (0)1481 825500

But I'm warning you, they will investigate this and if it turns out your son is playing the same games in the same manner they will probably come to the conclusion it was you who played out the funds - not your son. If your son has a completely different playing pattern, then they may come to the conclusion that it was him.

Please let us know how this turns out.

I'm also curious how your son managed to get a Neteller account. If he committed fraud by misrepresenting himself, then you have much more serious problem on your hands besides some lost funds.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
So I have to contact a regulator?

And I understand the situation - but in a real casino my child also wouldn't be accepted to place a bet. So it's a no go for an online casino to accept it.

In a real casino your son would not be able to fool the people at the entrance, at least not in Holland.

Do not lose sight of the fact that your son has fraudulently misrepresented himself in the FIRST place.

And as Casinomeister said, they do not card you in the US (not in Asia either) - and I am pretty sure they would not refund any losses under any circumstances.
 

RedAndi

Winter is Coming
Joined
May 1, 2009
Location
US
Most casinos - at least in the States - don't card you at the door. You could be a 16 year old who looks like 22 sitting at the slots and get away with it.

Here in Michigan most casinos have people at the door who card if you look young. This includes both Indian and NON-Indian casinos.
I know in Vegas they don't stop you at the door much, but I think that's because it more resort-like there and you have family types coming through with the kids to get to pools, restaurants, shows, etc. But that doesn't mean they are not watching the floor and will come up to you if you are underage at a machine.

BTW, did the kid fake the ID he sent to Neteller?
Can't you just have the bank reverse the transfers to Neteller? I seem to recall this being done in the US for some cases.
And also, I hope you are taking this kids computer away from him as punishment (as the LEAST of his punishment, I should say).
 
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anniemac

Ueber Meister
PABnoaccred
MM
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Location
Texas, USA
Gotta disagree with you, Bryan. The casinos I frequent in La, and most all others I have been to in the US, card young looking players. My son is 27 and my daughter is 34 and both of them get carded. Course at my age if I got carded, I would take it as a compliment.

To get back to the OP, how did your son open up a casino account or a Neteller account and not have to send in ID. When I had a Neteller account, I had to send in docs and that was years ago.

Not sure I would want to push this. Just punish him and call it a learning experience.

Might want to pay a little more attention to what he is doing on the internet. Just saying.
 

all4greed

Now we can do business.
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Location
Pacific NW
If your son had been on the winning side of things, would you have contacted the casino to give the money back?

I still don't get how he had a Neteller account and funded it.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
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Location
Bierland
Here in Michigan most casinos have people at the door who card if you look young. This includes both Indian and NON-Indian casinos...

Gotta disagree with you, Bryan. The casinos I frequent in La, and most all others I have been to in the US, card young looking players...
Sorry, should've made myself clearer - I meant the REAL casinos in Vegas, baby! :thumbsup: :p
 

dominique

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Location
The Boonies
A lot of Vegas casinos cater to families, as mentioned above. For example, the Excalibur is very kid friendly, with puppet shows and all kinds of stuff interesting to older juveniles too.

Underage persons roam the casinos quite freely.

I suppose a 13 year old who looks like a 13 year old and doesn't have fake ID would be thrown off a table game.

But I have been in Vegas quite a bit and I have never seen anyone get carded except in bars and clubs.

How on earth did your son get a Neteller account? It would be fraudulent for him to have it.

If it was my son I would punish him and let him learn his lesson about monies lost - you say that it was his own money.
 

butterflyboogie

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Jun 4, 2008
Location
Casino Oblivion
My Opinion

Although I know this is heartbreaking for the person, knowing the son lost his money this way, however, trying to resolve it may open up a whole new can of worms. This, may turn around and cause more harm to the boy.

This is my opinion, and only my opinion, for what it is worth. I believe that every processor (netteller, quicktender, moneylinewallet, etc) should ask for documentation when an account is open. At the beginning before the first deposit is made, or the first withdrawal. It would be simple to ask for a utility bill and a drivers license. Most online casinos ask for this with withdrawals, and I don't think it is a bad idea to ask for it when an account is open. This would be protection for the casino, the processors, and the customer. It might be viewed as a hassle, however it could help to keep this type of thing, along with other fraudulant acts to a minimum.

For the person with the son, again this is my opinion, but I have 4 kids and 9 grandkids. It is terrible when they do something they shouldn't do, and when savings are lost, it is heartbreaking. However, your son signed up knowing that he was not 18. He also lied to get an account at the casino, and with the processor. Although the circumstances are bad, he is not a "little" kid, and he knew what he had done, because when he didn't win, and lost instead, he came to you with the information. If he had won, would he have come to you? This is the real issue here. I do feel sorry that this is a hard lesson to learn, however, he has to take responsibility for his actions. It's not about him losing the money, it is the way he lost the money and the deception he did in order to do this. I wish you the best.
 

silcnlayc

Just one more spin pleez!
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butterflyboogie:I believe that every processor (netteller, quicktender, moneylinewallet, etc) should ask for documentation when an account is open. At the beginning before the first deposit is made, or the first withdrawal
AS I remember it, when I applied for my Neteller account, I had to give my banking information and a credit card with docs to prove my address and location. Then Neteller proceeded to deposit a few pennies into my account (checking) to show where the money is coming from and going. I was told the credit card was for a backup in case I overdrew and didn't have funds available in my checking account.

I then had to log into Neteller for the first time and it asked you these questions on how much money was deposited into my account and the date and time. If I got any wrong they said my account would be locked until further investigation. I got the answers all right (was a nervous wreck hoping I didn't screw it up) .They were very thorough in these checks...so to get a Neteller account is not as easy as one would think.

Since I am in the USA, I can no longer use my Neteller but it is still there.

.
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya: What if you son would have WON $1500? What if they then asked for his ID, to send him the winnings?

And, NO, in real casino's here in Vegas, NO One ever ask to see anyones ID, Unless they are Gambling, and unless they, or their friends, REALLY look like they are under 21. On Table Games, this is done before they are allowed to buy any chips. Slots are different. A 6 year old could walk up to a slot machine, put in $2, push the button, win $100, hit print ticket, walk over to an ATM/Ticket Redemption machine, get his $100 in cash, and walk out the door without anyone ever knowing........

Last I remember, you need a ID to either open a Processor acct:, in this case neteller, or to set up your Casino acct: to be able to withdraw Winnings. I would be happy that your Son got caught, and that this should teach him a lesson..................


PS: This is exactly why Las Vegas did not enter the On Line Gambling world several years ago. THIS was the single objection that shot it down, and the single biggest objection that will stop On Line Gambling from become legal in America. And that is......"How do we KNOW, that the person at the Keyboard is of Legal age to gamble"? and the answer is.......You Don't..............
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
I saw people getting asked for ID in Vegas and then asked to leave the gambling area.

As for Neteller verification, all they did was phone me on the number I registered. I never sent any documents.
 

vegetagirl2008

Mafia Wars Level 472
Joined
May 10, 2008
Location
Brooklyn, New York, United States
How does a 16 year old get their hands on 1500 dollars to begin with. Second of all if the child has a checking account and they are under 18 years of age they would have to get their parents to co-sign their withdrawals or deposits. The bank does not give that kind of money to a minor without the parents permission. Did the bank even call you to tell you about this large withdrawal from your child's bank account?
 

taysh075

Non-Gambler
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
New Zealand
Although I know this is heartbreaking for the person, knowing the son lost his money this way, however, trying to resolve it may open up a whole new can of worms. This, may turn around and cause more harm to the boy.

This is my opinion, and only my opinion, for what it is worth. I believe that every processor (netteller, quicktender, moneylinewallet, etc) should ask for documentation when an account is open. At the beginning before the first deposit is made, or the first withdrawal. It would be simple to ask for a utility bill and a drivers license. Most online casinos ask for this with withdrawals, and I don't think it is a bad idea to ask for it when an account is open. This would be protection for the casino, the processors, and the customer. It might be viewed as a hassle, however it could help to keep this type of thing, along with other fraudulant acts to a minimum.

For the person with the son, again this is my opinion, but I have 4 kids and 9 grandkids. It is terrible when they do something they shouldn't do, and when savings are lost, it is heartbreaking. However, your son signed up knowing that he was not 18. He also lied to get an account at the casino, and with the processor. Although the circumstances are bad, he is not a "little" kid, and he knew what he had done, because when he didn't win, and lost instead, he came to you with the information. If he had won, would he have come to you? This is the real issue here. I do feel sorry that this is a hard lesson to learn, however, he has to take responsibility for his actions. It's not about him losing the money, it is the way he lost the money and the deception he did in order to do this. I wish you the best.


Was going to respond and then read Butterfly's post. It pretty much sums up exactly what I was going to say. So I saved myself some time and quoted :D
 

skiny

Banned User - violation of <a href="http://www.cas
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Location
Canada
When I was his age I didn't have 1500 bucks. I had about 15. And I delivered about 300 newspapers before 7 am every Sunday morning to get it.

Ahhh the good ole days. :)
 

LHofsdal

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Location
NY
I am not sure why everyone is getting on the gambling site and neteller. The gaming site will ask for documents when a withdrawal is requested and neteller should have verified everything before any deposits were made to the gaming site.

I don't want to seem insensitive here, but I think the big problem here is this child knew what he was doing. He signed up at a gaming site, he knew he was gambling. After he had lost his savings only then did he go to his parents. If he would have won and then put the money back into his savings account, do you think he would have went to his parents then? Who knows, but I really believe that if he had won he would still be gambling at that gaming site.

Its a hard pill to swallow knowing your under age child was gambling and lost his money, but he had to commit fraud somewhere along the lines to be able to fund and gamble at this site. Thank god it was only 1500 dollars and not thousands. IMO, take this as a lesson and make sure your son earns back every penny he lost, then he might think twice about gambling on line.

I am just sayin'.

LH

PS. It is not uncommon for kids to have such large amounts money now a days, my daughter is 9 and has more in the bank then what some middle class families make in a year. I keep a close eye on her bank accounts, and will until she is old enough to get the money out. And that will not be until she goes to college, and hopefully by then she will be smart with her money.
 

Mavin1

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 19, 2009
Location
Arizona
Okay, since you opened this can of worms, my question is, do you really have a son and did "he" really play? Afterall, the burden of proof is on you.
 
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