my thoughts on casino payment processing....

[Mousey]

This is only my thoughts and conclusions from what I've been able read here at CM. If this scenario (or any part thereof) is incorrect, or is missing key components, feel free to chime in. And if anyone gets all bent out of shape worrying that I'm giving away 'secrets'... you haven't been reading the forum for years, and/or you have forgotten that the DOJ ran their own payment processing sting, Linwood, for two years(!) so they already know a hell of a lot more than I do about how the system works.

I am assuming we all understand our gov't has burdened banks with the UIGEA and if they see anything that they know comes from an online gambling establishment, they block it. Or if they have been informed that "Guido's Fancy Italian Shoes", or 'Fast Pay to You', or whatever the name, is a front for online casino money processing, they will seize/freeze/block those transactions, too.

This is the payment processing to/from casinos as I understand it....

Let's say I'm willing to go into the payment processing business. (Though after reading the like of the US War on Online Gaming, I can't fathom why anyone would....) Let's call it PayPay, Inc. I contact casinos, I have money, seem to be dependable, and they are interested. I set up a fat account at a bank (preferably in the US) showing I'm good for it. All of this takes weeks to get set up properly. The casino finance people/owners/whoever (we'll do only one for simplicity) sends me $50k to work with. (Amounts are pulled out of the air and are only for the purpose of this little discussion.)

Everything is fine for awhile... money goes in money goes out and everyone is happy.

But then the casino begins to get emails, phone calls, from players. Where's my money? I didn't receive my $500. Why don't you know where it is?? What do you mean you sent it to the processor? Why don't I have it??

Casino support tells you to be patient, give it some more time. It's Friday, and they will contact the finance dept next week when they're in the office. On Monday, Finance dept. says they sent the payment to the processor. Just be patient we have a lot of payouts and processor can only send out X number of checks/ACH/wires in a week without raising suspicions. OK... fine...

Or maybe they sent you a check, you put it in the bank. But... oh dear! ... 15 days later you find out it bounced! Fees, phone calls, send copy of statment to casino, they'll cover NSF fee... but where'd the money go??? Is the casino broke?

Another week drags by.... where the hell's your money??? Another day or two while the casino finance dept tries to contact processor again.... Cannot reach processor. Doesn't answer phone or skype or emails or anything.

So what happened?

Maybe the DOJ got wise and seized all of PayPay, Inc's monies, arresting the CEO -- me. They have seized my house, cars, boat, personal and business financial accounts, computers, cellphones,... everything. That means you didn't get your $500, and the casino lost $50k. Oh, and letting the casino group know what happened to me isn't very high on my list of priorities.

OR... maybe I got wind that someone was snooping into PayPay Inc's affairs.... I grabbed what money I could, closed the bank account, put my house up for sale, threw my compuers and cellphones into the river on the way to the airport and took the family for a long, long vacation in Siberia (or wherever).

But the casino/poker room still owes you $500. Now what?

They've got to find another processor.... Not so easy or quick. Remember, it takes weeks to get things set up again somewhere else.

Why don't they just sit down in the office and write you a check? They can't. They do not have direct access to the money. Plus, they've just lost $50k -- or whatever they still had resting with PayPay. The casino group may have plenty of money, but it's scattered everywhere... Sweden, Germany, Italy... wherever....

Oh, I know... what about a plain ol' money order? There's a guy in Florida (I think it was) moldering away in jail that might tell you that might not work for very long, either.

So anyway... when it's working, it's fine. When it stops working, it's a PITA -- for everyone involved. For the past several years, it's just not that easy moving money from here to there.

 

[samoas]

Your thoughts are very plausible, Mousey!

 

[bb28]

Great post Mousey!

I also think it's going to be several more years before anything other than poker is legalized in the states and I think the transferring of money back to winners will eventually get even more difficult than it already is. I think US players are taking more of a risk as time moves on.

 

[Diane]

Great post Mousey!

I also think it's going to be several more years before anything other than poker is legalized in the states and I think the transferring of money back to winners will eventually get even more difficult than it already is. I think US players are taking more of a risk as time moves on.

Which is why you Deposit and if you win, you immediately, withdraw....never leave money on account. Hit a win, w/d, and move on to another casino why you wait for the w/d to avoid the temptation to play it back out of boredom.

FWIW,
Diane

 

[Mousey]

Great post Mousey!

I also think it's going to be several more years before anything other than poker is legalized in the states and I think the transferring of money back to winners will eventually get even more difficult than it already is. I think US players are taking more of a risk as time moves on.

I fully agree. IMHO the legalization of poker (which will come first) will make playing online casinos even more difficult, and we will see our casino choices - not that we have much in the way of choices now - dwindle even further. Nuworks software and rogue Virtual casinos may be all that is left open to us in near future.

Plus, we have to remember that USA players are costing these RTG casinos a fortune. The fees must be astronomical for processing to USA. Everytime a processor goes away, casinos lose tons of money. I'm really surprised they haven't dumped us already.

 

[4 of a kind]

What could possibly motivate any USA player to risk even a penny under these factual conditions;? unless of course they have been living under a rock.

With the amount of USA enforcement that took place over the last year or two, any person recommending online casinos to USA players today even with a warning about payments being delayed, should be considered unethical, (regardless how right or wrong one might consider the USA law to be) and greedy, with their only concern being to line their own pockets.

 

[bb28]

What could possibly motivate any USA player to risk even a penny under these factual conditions;? unless of course they have been living under a rock.

Well that's the nature of gamblers, = risk takers.

With the amount of USA enforcement that took place over the last year or two, any person recommending online casinos to USA players today even with a warning about payments being delayed, should be considered unethical, (regardless how right or wrong one might consider the USA law to be) and greedy, with their only concern being to line their own pockets.

I don't think I agree 100% with the above as I see some webmasters as ethical and some are not and my view is not solely based on if they promote US facing casino's are not. I can also see it from the point of a webmaster who has focused his business upon the US market and isn't sure what to do now. I suppose the best advice would be to have already been working on plan B and plan C.

 

[bb28]

I fully agree. IMHO the legalization of poker (which will come first) will make playing online casinos even more difficult, and we will see our casino choices - not that we have much in the way of choices now - dwindle even further. Nuworks software and rogue Virtual casinos may be all that is left open to us in near future.

Plus, we have to remember that USA players are costing these RTG casinos a fortune. The fees must be astronomical for processing to USA. Everytime a processor goes away, casinos lose tons of money. I'm really surprised they haven't dumped us already.

I agree with most of your post although they still have to be making big $$$$'s or else they would already have dumped us. I can see a day when a group that is reputable will close up shop because of the processing problems in the very near future. Scary isn't it? I wonder if they then will start going after affiliates and then players?

 

[felicie]

Good post mousey can't believe I missed it. I apologize. You've got a great handle on the whole processor problem I think and man can I relate to the frustration.
I do agree with bb28 however, that RTG's aren't losing on US players or some of our biggest wouldn't have switched over to RTG. Whose losing Is the American player and all Americans until we get rid of the crooks that have been running this country the last umpteen years.