My online slots videos (plus UK AWPs)

[ChopleyIOM]

I never knew any of the "cheats" existed on the old ACE machines - many a cigarette smoke-infused spanking was had in the arcades of Sheffield, back in the day...

Unfortunately yes, one of the most fuckable families of machines ever. Like you, I had no idea back in the day, the drubbings I had handed to me by those things....

ACE were so bad for this stuff that one of their coders was actually sent to prison for deliberately coding shit into his machines, selling the details to a select few, and also doing the machines himself with the bent shit he'd coded into them!

We've talked about it over at Desert Island Fruits at some length, and those who know a bit about coding (we can get into the code pretty well using the emulator and its debugger features, as well as decompiling the ROMS) are left with no doubt whatsoever that most of the nonsense on ACE machines was purposely coded in for the purposes of corruption, rather than oversights or mistakes.

 

[Jono777]

Video jogged a memory, well I think it did!

Most ACE machines had 2 streaks, tokens and cash. Once ready it would do, lets say the token streak, Once it had taken enough back after streak, next time it would be the cash streak and so on.

Quicksilver in Queen Street Wolverhampton had Play it Again for ages, reasonably often saw some of the "addicts" feed a complete token streak back in, plus a good portion of their benefits on top in an attempt to trigger the cash streak.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Ace Emptiers were my first ever exploit and what a beauty it was. Not Play it Again but the later machines with the 'free' lines wins.

Downside was so many jammed token mechs, a lot of scrutiny from fellow pub go-ers and "Mug punters" and drinking and smoking away most of our profits.

We committed so many hours and drove here there and everywhere doing these, at one point, I had about 12 pint glasses on my window sill full to the top with £1 coins, along with bags of tokens which I made mental notes where they could be used. In the end could empty cash tubes without needing money, just the tokens we'd accrued.

If I'd been older and wiser and more restrained at the time, could have got rich from these as they were literally everywhere.

Even most pubs to start with were 'happy' to pay out a £50 IOU lol.

The money I could have made back in the early 90s if I'd have had just had a few of the cheats and methods that prevailed at the time. Back in those days, as I'm sure UK folks of the same vintage as me will remember ( ), there were pubs absolutely everywhere, open all day, and all of them having one, or two, or three fruit machines (sometimes more!). Plus the machines got a lot of casual play back then, so they were getting money through them all the time, meaning a clued-up player would have been able to visit them regularly.

I do slightly wonder if a younger version of me would have just spunked all the money away anyway on all sorts of hedonistic nonsense, but it still would have been better than being a permanently skint addict!

 

[ChopleyIOM]

On this day last year my dad was in a medically induced coma, slowly deteriorating towards his eventual death on the 27th.

Some thoughts about the process of grief, and also a series I'll make about possibly the worst year of my fruit machine addiction, 1994, with reference to my diary from that year, which I still have.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Out at the pub with a couple of mates enjoying some responsible gambling. When the fun stops, stop! And all that.

I haven't made a single deposit at any online casino in 2024, so I'll allow myself a bit of a punt at the pub from time to time.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This is not a new video, it's a re-edit and reupload of the video I made documenting the decline and death of my dad last year. I kept the project 'live' on my editing laptop after the original upload 'cause I felt it could use a few tweaks and improvements, which is what this version represents.

Please note it is substantially the same video as the original, but it is my preferred version of it.

I published the video yesterday, which was the first anniversary of my dad's death.

 

[dealer wins]

This is a sort of follow-on video to the previous video on my channel, where I have a deeper dive into the MYSTERY MACHINE that could be seen in the background of me and Mrs Chopley playing pool.

So I talk a bit about Hot Rod and its proper physical bagatelle game that was incorporated into the cabinet, and also take a look right back into the early 90s for a machine with a similar sort of gimmick made by Barcrest, called Gamball.



View attachment 190336

That Gamball had the craziest emptier ever, where you needed to get the £2.40 + repeat chance and hold down every single button. You either needed 2 people or a plank of wood to do it lol

 

[ChopleyIOM]

How far wrong can a compensated machine go?

You might be surprised.....

 

[Reelsoffun]

I totally get what you’re saying about this, but in the real world it was never going to get to that severe point, no one would have played it that bad for anywhere near as long. There were probably dozens if not hundreds that could go behind if played badly on purpose long enough.

As you mentioned later games did force jackpots in if they got too far behind.

This sort of thing was fundamentally the problem for most coders they just didn’t see the point coding for each senario or they just weren’t up to the job. Let’s be honest here they would have been far more focused on protecting the compensator being manipulated to pay too much rather than forced to not pay enough.

Even compensated machines have/ had decisions that were still random given some parameters, which is why even tho it’s so far behind can still kill you off etc.

Compensators often had several “pots” or controls, and didn’t just look at overall % or drift, which is a big problem in this particular case.

As you also state another problem, most likely the biggest was there wasn’t really any standard for how the compensators had to work, so many coders had there own style and some were better than others.

If you think big wheel was bad you should see how far some clubbers could go behind if forced badly, they can go in well excess of £10k drift behind. “Money to burn club” is a good example.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I totally get what you’re saying about this, but in the real world it was never going to get to that severe point, no one would have played it that bad for anywhere near as long. There were probably dozens if not hundreds that could go behind if played badly on purpose long enough.

As you mentioned later games did force jackpots in if they got too far behind.

This sort of thing was fundamentally the problem for most coders they just didn’t see the point coding for each senario or they just weren’t up to the job. Let’s be honest here they would have been far more focused on protecting the compensator being manipulated to pay too much rather than forced to not pay enough.

Even compensated machines have/ had decisions that were still random given some parameters, which is why even tho it’s so far behind can still kill you off etc.

Compensators often had several “pots” or controls, and didn’t just look at overall % or drift, which is a big problem in this particular case.

As you also state another problem, most likely the biggest was there wasn’t really any standard for how the compensators had to work, so many coders had there own style and some were better than others.

If you think big wheel was bad you should see how far some clubbers could go behind if forced badly, they can go in well excess of £10k drift behind. “Money to burn club” is a good example.

Yes we did a really deep dive into a machine called Super Blackjack Club by Barcrest (one I'm sure you remember as it was one of your original MPU3/4 classic layouts that Wizard supplied me with on CD back in 2001!), using autoplay and manual play we eventually sussed out that it basically locked 20% of RTP into feature ladder wins that were below the block, if you constantly forced it for the jackpot, or through the block wins, it would pay out 20% below target, permanently.

Getting it back to percentage was as simple as letting 'G FOR GEORGE' take the strain (Albeit for a very long time....) It turned into a really interesting deep dive and a great group effort over at Desert Island Fruits.

So yes, I totally get what you're saying in your post there, the compensation of UK fruit and club machines was a total wild west. It was ostensibly regulated but in reality, you had small teams of coders, or indeed just individuals at all the different companies, writing their own versions of 'the truth' that worked, or more often didn't work, in all kinds of ridiculous ways. I mean, the evidence of that is right there on my channel with all the emptier and method videos, these things have been fundamentally broken for decades.

Even speaking as someone who was able to consistently win out of compensated machines from the year 2001 forward, I can't even remotely defend them and I'm glad they're basically extinct, the simple truth of the matter is that random machines are a far fairer proposition. (Although even there, especially in the online space, we see many providers trying to stretch the limits of the definition with things like stored value and suchlike.)

 

[Jono777]

Ah Yes Super BlackJack Club

I remember you sending me those ROM's that were WAAYYY behind percentage.

Played it manually (No G for George) but also using "best strategy"

Short summary, I simply did not lose and won almost every time over a lengthy period and even then it was still very slightly adrift.

Also IIRC, in all this play (100K spins+??) it still did not drop a Cashpot or Jackpot.

Glad this thread got bumped with this machine as I had totally forgot about it, may revisit the emu a few nights this week.

 

[slot_zombie]

And yet... Compensation is alive and well in 2024 - not at all as pervasive as back in the day, but I give you:

Exhibit A, Light & Wonder Cat C community video slots - £100 jackpot with 1 repeat chance possible, can take £1000 to pop on a really bad day.

These are examples of games that can drift very badly behind for no reason at all, and it's not as if there is any "playing style" fault here due to their simplistic 3 reel nature -they are simply pure evil compensators but the grannies sit rowing the Black Knights day in day out at my local arcade.

 

[Reelsoffun]

Like most club machines of the time you had to learn to play them in a way that they didn’t fight you against forcing them, I used to just always go for nudges, £10 was the target to then gamble out.

Using George for the first £10 would often give you an indication of any value in the machine from the off if you hadn’t got any recent info, eg by watching some mug doing a brute force and getting shafted.

The only way I had Cashpots was the usual roll in, you know straight away as it spins slower the same as the hold after nudge type spin.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Like most club machines of the time you had to learn to play them in a way that they didn’t fight you against forcing them, I used to just always go for nudges, £10 was the target to then gamble out.

Using George for the first £10 would often give you an indication of any value in the machine from the off if you hadn’t got any recent info, eg by watching some mug doing a brute force and getting shafted.

The only way I had Cashpots was the usual roll in, you know straight away as it spins slower the same as the hold after nudge type spin.

IMO this is where compensated machines fall into the 'should never have existed' category, they only managed to proliferate in the first place by skirting around gambling regulations by (somehow!) achieving the arcane classification of 'AMUSEMENTS WITH PRIZES', and yet as we all know, even by the £4.80p token jackpot era (1990), there were machines that could save for streaks of £50-£60 (the original ACE Hidden Treasures machines, for example), which in today's money is £143, is that really just 'amusement with prizes'?

I mean, it's all very well for us to sit here in the year 2024, with decades of accumulated knowledge, and also the ability to dissect machines in the emulator in a way that was never possible on the real thing, including doing stuff like 'rewinding time' with VM snapshots to prove certain cheating/dishonest behaviour, like I did with the Betcoms 'switching the box' on the player on their DOND style game.

However, back in the day it was basically just the wild west, with the manufacturers of these machines essentially able to do pretty much whatever they wanted, with all sorts of bonkers compensators, pots, saved for value, anti-force code and all the rest of it.

Specifically in the case of Super Blackjack Club, the original 'correct' way to play this, on earlier chips, was the straight gamble force technique, and then Barcrest pushed out a ROM revision that categorically fought against that behaviour, essentially turning it into an entirely different machine, and reducing its payout by 20% if played in that manner, and there was no requirement whatsoever to inform the player of this. (And of course, when the new ROMs were put in the machine, it'd reset all its internal meters, so anything owed to the player at that point was just lost forever.)

For my money, there's no 'good' way to do compensation, some methods are fairer than others, but fundamentally it's a shit idea and I'm glad it's now dead in the real world, but that it can live on through emulation.

 

[dealer wins]

How far wrong can a compensated machine go?

You might be surprised.....

I remember playing JPMs Rollercoaster on the emulator, must have put £500 in it and refused all wins and features (Busting out of the trail using the hi low gamble). It never once brought in the jackpot I gave up on it in the end. I might try that again one day if I have the time!

 

[dealer wins]

Yes we did a really deep dive into a machine called Super Blackjack Club by Barcrest (one I'm sure you remember as it was one of your original MPU3/4 classic layouts that Wizard supplied me with on CD back in 2001!), using autoplay and manual play we eventually sussed out that it basically locked 20% of RTP into feature ladder wins that were below the block, if you constantly forced it for the jackpot, or through the block wins, it would pay out 20% below target, permanently.

Getting it back to percentage was as simple as letting 'G FOR GEORGE' take the strain (Albeit for a very long time....) It turned into a really interesting deep dive and a great group effort over at Desert Island Fruits.

So yes, I totally get what you're saying in your post there, the compensation of UK fruit and club machines was a total wild west. It was ostensibly regulated but in reality, you had small teams of coders, or indeed just individuals at all the different companies, writing their own versions of 'the truth' that worked, or more often didn't work, in all kinds of ridiculous ways. I mean, the evidence of that is right there on my channel with all the emptier and method videos, these things have been fundamentally broken for decades.

Even speaking as someone who was able to consistently win out of compensated machines from the year 2001 forward, I can't even remotely defend them and I'm glad they're basically extinct, the simple truth of the matter is that random machines are a far fairer proposition. (Although even there, especially in the online space, we see many providers trying to stretch the limits of the definition with things like stored value and suchlike.)

There was a cheat/tell on this machine that I never found out, even to this day. Someone who knew could literally walk into a club back in the day, and tell instantly if this machine was ready to go beyond the block and how to make it if it was ready. I would love to know what it was.

I made a fortune from emptiers/skill for 20 years back in the 80s and 90s but never found this one out, it bugs me to this day lol

 

[ChopleyIOM]

There was a cheat/tell on this machine that I never found out, even to this day. Someone who knew could literally walk into a club back in the day, and tell instantly if this machine was ready to go beyond the block and how to make it if it was ready. I would love to know what it was.

I made a fortune from emptiers/skill for 20 years back in the 80s and 90s but never found this one out, it bugs me to this day lol

He wasn't just trying to look inside the machine at the tubes or something was he?

It wouldn't surprise me if there was something coded in for those in 'the know' to quickly identify. Barcrest themselves changed how the 'COLLECT' button flashed on rechips of their £70 machines where the method had been removed, so you only needed to get a couple of quid in the bank, collect it, and then depending on if the collect button flashed when the bank was being paid out, you could tell if it was chipped or not, and they specifically did this on the rechips where the methods were removed.

Vivid changed how the machine looked in attract mode when they rechipped all their Pie Factory + clones machines, with the bank display periodically flashing CASH instead of 25.00, so you just needed to watch it for a minute or two in attract mode, and could tell if it was one that had the method chipped out, didn't even need to put a credit in.

Totally bent 'industry', pitifully regulated and woefully corrupt and incompetent.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

'£70 compensated fruit machine in vulnerable to fuckery that could leave it wanting nearly £50 for a single feature or £1 win shocker'.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Having a crack at the £500 Blueprints in the pub, includes a brief foray into the world of MAX STAKE (£2 per spin) which is usually a bit rich for my blood.

There's a really nice win in here (I posted pictures in the Winners Screenshot thread earlier in the week), and also includes a few closing thoughts of where I'm at with online slots. (Quit, basically.)

 

[dunover]

Having a crack at the £500 Blueprints in the pub, includes a brief foray into the world of MAX STAKE (£2 per spin) which is usually a bit rich for my blood.

There's a really nice win in here (I posted pictures in the Winners Screenshot thread earlier in the week), and also includes a few closing thoughts of where I'm at with online slots. (Quit, basically.)

Good video, enjoyed that one.

 

[incrediblestuff]

Good video, enjoyed that one.

What he said

 

[ChopleyIOM]

A bit of history around a Barcrest AWP from the year 2000, the interesting thing here is that the internet was really starting to become a mass-adoption sort of proposition at this time, much to the chagrin of the professional fruity brigade, who suddenly found their coveted methods, emptiers and tricks being sprayed all over the internet....

 

[slot_zombie]

Good little earner that was. I never received any methods on it but quickly worked out that forcing it for a red TOT was the way to go.

 

[Reelsoffun]

@ChopleyIOM Sent you PM when ya get a min

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Celebrate the general election result with a machine sporting a nifty quad-lamped central kebab feature.

Red, blue, yellow, green - it's all in there.

Also, a proper clanger of an emptier that Barcrest once again 'accidentally' left in the code.