My online slots videos (plus UK AWPs)

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dunover

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It's probably skirting very close to the BACTA regulations. (If not breaching them.)

It says on the display 'AVOID THE STOP' and invites the player to make a choice, the clear implication being that it is possible to choose correctly, when in actual fact there is no winning choice.

Moreover, once the player makes his choice, the machine switches the contents of the box they didn't choose, then reveals that box, to make it look like the player only lost because he chose incorrectly.

Pretty scummy.
No different to the principle of the unwinnable hi-lo gamble though.
 

ChopleyIOM

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Yes I'd agree, both are scummy practices.

Compensated machines are just a bad idea IMO, the 'industry' has demonstrated time and time again, over decades, that it's completely incapable of designing them without them being bent and/or open to abuse and/or cheating and/or vulnerable to 'player advantage' play etc.

It's good that they're finally dying off to be replaced by random machines.

(EDIT - And that last sentence there is my honest sentiment, even though I've personally been making money out of them since around 2001.)
 

Jono777

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It's probably skirting very close to the BACTA regulations. (If not breaching them.)

It says on the display 'AVOID THE STOP' and invites the player to make a choice, the clear implication being that it is possible to choose correctly, when in actual fact there is no winning choice.

Moreover, once the player makes his choice, the machine switches the contents of the box they didn't choose, then reveals that box, to make it look like the player only lost because he chose incorrectly.

Pretty scummy.
I always said to my friends when these sort of machines first appeared in the pubs arcades etc, that there is NO WAY it is a genuine choice.

Can't recall my exact words but "Anything could be going on behind that mirror" rings a bell. We/they didn't understand RTP fully back then but we discussed how 10 players 'fluking' the right choice continually would end up the machine possibly making a loss!

Scummy indeed!
 

ChopleyIOM

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Interestingly (sort of..... :) ) there was a fruit machine that made a big deal out of the fact that it featured a 'FAIR PLAY' hi/lo reel that didn't cheat.

I tested it to destruction in the emulator :)

 

Spikie

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I’ve just read an interesting patent from 1987 submitted by JPM regarding SWP skill with prizes machines , patent no GB2185612A , available to read on google patent search.

In a nutshell, it basically covers the compensation in difficulty in skill machines (quiz or others) that increases the difficulty to keep the balance between machine income and payouts ....
 

colinsunderland

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I remember playing Pool Play, and also fixing them at a later point :)
JPM were massive and were streets ahead of anything else at the time. Bell Fruit too.
Also used to work on Jukeboxes, pinballs etc but the bandits were the easiest.

Theres also a Nudge Double Up Deluxe and Lite a Nudge in my local seaside arcade :)
They are the version shown in your video, from memory the very first NDU had big round buttons, unless I'm thinking of a similar one.
 

dunover

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Dual slot play, Red Hot Win Spin and Berrini's Fortune.

I don't know if you mentioned it or spotted it, but in the free games if you get an extra spin and one of the 2+ scatters is the Red Hot symbol on reel 5, then it guarantees the next spin will be a winning one with the symbol you are on.
EDIT - Ah, yes you did mention it just after I posted this....

P.S. there was a player at bwin who got a huge win on this, over 3k x IIRC.

rhws.jpg
 
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ChopleyIOM

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Was just about do post I do mention that during that one of the features when it happens :)

Is there any info anywhere as to the max pay on this?
 

dunover

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Was just about do post I do mention that during that one of the features when it happens :)

Is there any info anywhere as to the max pay on this?
Yes, we did have the data sheet somewhere for when it was being developed, I'll see what it says. Obviously I can't plaster the full thing in public, but I can try and get the cogent facts most players would look for.

EDIT - There isn't one specified, as each individual 5OAK win is random and has its own odds which differ in the base game, mini-feature and main feature. So the multiplier you can achieve has no cap, and neither does the win but you would need an incredibly lucky run of events to say build up to a 3x multiplier and land say 54 or 81 ways of the 7 in one of the spins. But it's possible. I know in testing it produced wins of several thousand x stake, but cannot give a specific maximum. There's no built-in limit though.
@ChopleyIOM Your RTP is split (rounded up) 35% base game, 16% Reels of Fire and 46% Win Spin Feature.
Your overall hit rate is approx. 1/4 base game, 1/35 Reels of Fire and 1/120 Win Spin Feature so around 1/4 overall. :)
 
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colinsunderland

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Whenever I watch your videos, I get this type pop up on the side, these were my type of machines :D



I can't still remember the reels now, and probably haven't played one properly for 35+ years, watching those videos when he was getting a nudge I could instantly say how many he needed, before he did. Struggle to remember what I did last month, but can remember how many reel stops the grape is from the JPM on the first reel of a slot I first played almost 40 years ago!
 

dunover

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A bit of hacking to discover if Win Series even exists or not.....

Have you ever considered that the RTP switches could have something to do with it? I know club machines on the old MPU3 or 4 would bar some features according to the setting, so on the top 88% for example, the 'Bar Steppa' wasn't possible, but the cash pots would always come out at about 80 quid on the 150 j/p version. if you set the pay-out switches below 80%, then you could get the stoppa features including skill reel for j/p BUT your cashpot would then always rise to 150 and not drop at 80. I know £5 j/p conversions with low RTP's (due to the lower 5 or 10p stakes) would ALWAYS prevent the 4-£5 gambles. I wonder if you guys have checked the that the win series is barred on ALL possible RTP settings?

The above is one massive reason why AWP's and club machines were in my view illegal and deceptive - never mind the rigged hi-lo, the fact the machines displayed features on the glass that on some RTP settings were IMPOSSIBLE to get put them in breach of numerous consumer and advertising/trades descriptions laws.

I still believe to this day that the UK allowing compensated and misleading club/AWP slots, almost unique in the civilized world, is and was the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on a country's citizens. And we had the hopeless BACTA who made petty rules while perpetuating the whole scam for decades.
 
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ChopleyIOM

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The stuff you mention there definitely happened in all sorts of various ways dunover, but in the case of Indiana Jones I honestly don't think it's the culprit. (As for compensated machines in general, they are a uniquely strange UK creation, on the one hand they have given rise to some of the most creative, skilful and challenging gambling games ever made, but on the other hand they've been vulnerable to all sorts of corruption, manipulation, trickery and general malfeasance.)

Over at a couple of dedicated fruit machine emulation forums, and indeed in comments left on my previous videos about Indiana Jones, not one single person has ever reported managing to land the Win Series feature on the machine, across all kinds of stake/prize settings, and a multitude of percentage settings. (Including from people who have owned the real machine for years, and state they have never managed to collect the feature.)

It looks like JPM coded the feature in but just didn't leave in any viable mechanism for it to be awarded, but by hacking the RAM location for the hi/lo reel, we did at least prove it exists and the machine can award it, and knows what to do with it, if you can survive the required number of ambushes.

EDIT- Plus I played this machine A LOT back in the day for real, and have thrashed it in the emulator over the years too, I've never had Win Series.
 
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