My input on Software concerns - including Playtech

caruso said:
Bryan - since the time you complained about my stating opinions as "fact", you'll notice all my subsequent comments on this matter are INVARIABLY prefaced with an "IMO" statement. There is nothing irresponsible or emotional about stating one's opinion.

For one thing, I don't complain on my board. This is my property - nothing to complain about. I give guidelines and rules on how I believe posters should behave.

Anyway, this here is your opinion:

I know they're happy (Playtech) being the crooked pondlife scum they are.

So I guess you feel that you are free to say whatever you like here without repercussions just because you throw in the disclaimer IMO.

Sorry dude, dat don't cut it here. You want to start name-calling? go to That Sucks or WOL or wherever. The only one allowed to call anyone names here is me. Sorry, that's the way it is...unless of course I agree with the namecaller, or I miss the thread.

Playtech may have some problems, but the operators and employees are not "crooked pondlife scum" IMO.

And no, Bethug, I ain't no Black Jack player. In fact I find it incredibly boring like Roullete (sorry guys).

But besides this, receiving your logs from the casino should not be a mindnumbing deal. If they don't provide them on your first request, request them again and state why you want them. If they blow you off again, contact me and I'll see what I can do.
 
banno said:
I have sent a 2nd request to betcasino for my Blackjack game logs. I should have an answer by tomorrow.

Good luck banno. If you hit a brick wall, please let me know.
 
bryan , do this then , take 8000 dollars. try two of each casinos, with 1000 in each one. Play black jack. ( two playtec, two micro,two rtg, and two boss meida) record all your results then please tell me and others what your think. ;)
 
casinomeister said:
Playtech may have some problems, but the operators and employees are not "crooked pondlife scum" IMO.

OK, I retract the comment. It wasn't necessary to the point I was making. I stand by my opinion that they cheat, however.
 
casinomeister said:
I guess I should ask my wife for an advance on my allowance :D

Ask Vortran, I hear he's seeing a cute little ATM down the street!
 
No Playtec logs yet

No logs as of yet from betcasino. I'm going to give them until tomorrow morning and if I've received nothing, I will send them one final e-mail expressing my displeasure. A no response will just add fuel to the fire because I am already suspicious of their software, they've refused to provide logs and their customer service isn't what they say it is. Their website it's stated that all e-mails will be answered within 25 mintues. The first e-mail that I ever sent it took a day and a half to get a response.

I will provide an update in the morning and look forward to any ideas that anyone might have.
 
"Microgaming: Currently clean as a whistle. Pre-2002ish, cheating. Heard about the OCA and pulled their socks up fast. If a full set of tests is ever done on the (hopefully now error-free) data before the OCA folk get their kneecaps broken, it'll be revealed. Maybe too time-consuming a task, however. And probably too much risk to the kneecaps."

This would seem to me to be supposition, unless you have some evidence to back your statement (a) that MGS was cheating, (b) that they "pulled their socks up fast" on hearfing about the OCA. The broken knees comment is presumably intended as a frivolous comment, or do you have evidence that physical violence has been offered to "the OCA folks" and if so by whom?
 
"Boss: Rigged.

Playtech: Rigged."

Is this a personal opinion or a statement based on firm evidence please?
 
Cryptologic and a few select RTG casinos are the only ones I will mess with now days.

There is a great deal of cheating that goes on with many BJ internet games. Seriously, what are the odds of losing 20+ hands in a row playing perfect basic strategy?? It happens all the time at some of these casinos and no one can deny that there is something fishy going on. That being said, stay away from certain software providers that seem to have these problems. There are good guys out there, why wast your money on a bad bet?? Its already gambling, you already have a good chance of losing your money, why increase that chance by placing your bet with a shady casino?? I see many complaints around here from peole that waste hundreds at these casinos and seem to be under the impression that eventually its going to turn around, i know all about it because I used to be one of those people.

You can complain about it all you want but unless you can prove it and do something about it, then stay away from them.
 
jetset said:
"Microgaming: Currently clean as a whistle. Pre-2002ish, cheating. Heard about the OCA and pulled their socks up fast. If a full set of tests is ever done on the (hopefully now error-free) data before the OCA folk get their kneecaps broken, it'll be revealed. Maybe too time-consuming a task, however. And probably too much risk to the kneecaps."

This would seem to me to be supposition, unless you have some evidence to back your statement (a) that MGS was cheating, (b) that they "pulled their socks up fast" on hearfing about the OCA. The broken knees comment is presumably intended as a frivolous comment, or do you have evidence that physical violence has been offered to "the OCA folks" and if so by whom?

OCA reports (approximately) a 0.2% HA for Single-Deck BJ data before 2003 and 0.05% after 2003. If they cheated, they didn't cheat by much but if they did then they tinkered with the game after 2003 so that the whole set of results would be closer to the theoretical 0.1% HA.

jetset said:
"Playtech: Rigged." Is this a personal opinion or a statement based on firm evidence please?

OCA reports that Playtech BJ has a HA of over 2% after roughly 186,000 hands. Its not a huge sample but inspires no confidence. I myself have been victim to some disgusting hands by the Playtech dealer. Just my thoughts on the matter.
 
Playtech basic strategy

Hi,

I've had reasonable luck playing blackjack at Playtech casinos. Of course the basic strategy for playtech is different from RTG. If you use the wrong basic strategy, that might explain why you are losing!

Make sure your basic strategy is for European blackjack (with no hole card), not American, like the RTG casinos use.

Neil
 
Ah, those controversial OCA results again...OK, thanks Dealer Busts, that would seem to place these comments in the "unproved" sector, then.
 
DealerBusts said:
OCA reports (approximately) a 0.2% HA for Single-Deck BJ data before 2003 and 0.05% after 2003. If they cheated, they didn't cheat by much but if they did then they tinkered with the game after 2003 so that the whole set of results would be closer to the theoretical 0.1% HA.



OCA reports that Playtech BJ has a HA of over 2% after roughly 186,000 hands. Its not a huge sample but inspires no confidence. I myself have been victim to some disgusting hands by the Playtech dealer. Just my thoughts on the matter.

How many hands were in the MG samples? Unless there were several millions in both, there is not enough data to draw conclusions from with such small differences.

The Playtech data is different, if it is correct, it is off by about 5SD, which is conclusive.
 
jetset, Do you play black jack? and if you do how often?

I play black jack every day, alot on land and online. You telling me casinos never cheated? Come on now. If they casinos was so honest , they would let a indepent party verify there software at anytime.

I been playing long enough to know a fixed game. jetset i want u to put your money in playtec black jack , then try rtg or intercasino black jack. Then come back and lets us know
 
gamemaster, do you play and trust playtec black jack. why do most up and up players dont trust them. There to many 13 losing streaks, just to many. micro does not do that, intercasino, rtg

gammaster what casino do you play at
 
GrandMaster said:
How many hands were in the MG samples? Unless there were several millions in both, there is not enough data to draw conclusions from with such small differences.

They were of roughly equal sizes, about 2 million each i think.
 
Damian - His handle is "Grandmaster" not "Gamesmaster" - I think you're confusing him with someone else. :)

Jet said:
Is this a personal opinion or a statement based on firm evidence please?

I repeat AGAIN: since Bryan chose to haul me over the coals for stating my opinions as "fact", I have been VERY careful to preface all such comments with the appropriate disclaimer. All my comments are my own opinion, based on my own play. I had a session at Gambling Federation which lost to the tune of five SDs. This is not conclusive. It does, however, tell me to my own satisfaction that GF deal a rigged game. I don't have that same extreme evidence against either Playtech or Boss, but I do NOT believe that either deal a random game. I believe MG, Crypto and RTG currently DO do so.

And in reply to jpm, whose question I didn't respond to (sorry jpm) - my comments relate pretty much only to blackjack or the variant games. And, they remain my opinion only.

Dealerbusts has the edge on me with those OCA figures. I've not heard anything about them since the final MG addendum was released. If those Playtech figures are accurate it's powerful and damning (and unsurprising) evidence.
 
DealerBusts said:
They were of roughly equal sizes, about 2 million each i think.

Where have you got this OCA house edge info from? Was it private correspondence or did I manage to just miss it somewhere along the line?
 
caruso said:
Where have you got this OCA house edge info from? Was it private correspondence or did I manage to just miss it somewhere along the line?

I was rather surprised by the lack of publicity about the OCA client that was released so I checked it out myself. I paid $30 for three months access to their statistics. You can download the software from truegambler.com.

For MG single deck:
1.57 million hands collected before 2003, HA = 0.216%
1.66 million hands collected since start of 2003, HA = 0.029%

Playtech BJ:
211,000 hands collected, HA = 2.06%

The HA is calculated on the total bets, not just the initial bets. All the hands above are the ones that have been played optimally. Note that something is fishy with the HA of MG before 2003 and after. Almost 10 times the HA!!!

Playtech is just rigged.....and i am angry because they have ripped me off.
 
In regards to the intital topic of whether gaming software is fair, I don't think anyone can argue that RTG is very straight, unless someone can post otherwise. From my experience I believe RTG is very fair. Their only problem is the licensees, of which a large percentage are questionable in regards to fair payment of players. Sunset Palace, iNetBet, Phoenician, and Nostalgia Group being the exception. Has anyone out there had an experience with RTG that would lead them to believe the software is not dealing a fair game?
 

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