My GoWild ordeal

[FourTeller]

About two months back, I signed up at GoWild Casino through another site offering a free no deposit bonus. Went to claim it through live chat and all seemed to be proceeding as normal - barring the overenthusiastic rep with her 'dears' and exclamation marks and smilies - until she stated that I had to provide verification documents in order to be credited the bonus. Mind you, this is not exactly a staggering offer to begin with but an amount of less than US $20 with standard site wagering requirements.

Immediately smelling a rat, I asked the chat rep named Gia (it stuck but not for good reasons) if I was specifically being singled out for some reason but she denied it and basically claimed it was routine procedure Quite irritated at this point, I signed off and essentially decided to hell with this casino - there are so many other sites out there where I do not have to jump through hoops just to receive a modest freebie that I may not even complete the WR on, let alone get to withdraw.

Several days later, however, I relented as I was in the mood to play at MG but was not having much luck with those I already frequented - plus I was short of funds Part of me still resented what I cosidered a completely unnecessary imposition but I grudgingly sent my passport and bank account scans. Shortly afterwards, I decided to log into GoWild and play a free tourny or two while I waited for a response and the bonus to be credited - only to find that it had been locked without any prior warning whatsoever.

It is from this point onwards that things truly went downhill A quick live chat confirmed what I was already convinced of: 'dear' Gia lied earlier about why I was being asked for ID documents. Apparently I was under suspicion of attempted fraud by opening multiple accounts, yet the chat rep couldn't specify the exact offence - trying to claim the no deposit bonus twice and being signed up to a sister site (of which she could only name one i.e. GoWild Poker) were both mentioned.

Repeated emails (at least four) to GoWild support and other addresses on their website all bounced back over a three day period. So much for sending verification scans when they don't even have a working email address Another live chat wasn't much help but I eventually got a contact with a slightly different domain and finally, a week after my first message, I got a brief reply confirming my documents had been received forwarded to the finance department.

Another week passed with no word of my GoWild account status so, seeking an update, I went to live chat for the fourth time in this sorry saga... And who should I find but the one who started it all Actually, this time around I couldn't find much fault with Gia but, as far as I was concerned, the downward spiral started from our first interaction and the damage was irreversible. Anyway, she just repeated what the last email stated and told me to return in the morning when the finance team would be in.

Let me state that by this point I was no longer interested in the bonus that had originally led me to sign up at this casino. In fact, I did not see myself ever depositing under any circumstances. My main goal now was to disprove the multi-accounting accusation against me and to uncover the basis for it in the first place because I have only ever deliberately and knowingly signed up at GoWild the one occasion. So I returned to live chat for the last time and this is how it went:

info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Claire'
Claire: Hi Xxxx, welcome to GoWild
Xxxx: When will I ever find out if my documents have been verified and my account reinstated?
Claire: Xxxx, please allow me couple of moments to check everything for you
Claire: Xxxx, I have spoke to my finance department now on behalf of your matter and I'm sorry to tell you your account has not been approved for play
Claire: At our terms and conditions web page you have a part where it is stated next: 11.1 GoWild has the right to terminate Services or suspend your account if it believes you are in breach of these Terms of Service.
Xxxx: What terms have I suposedly breached?
Claire: Terms & Conditions link
Claire: Our system has detected that multiple accounts are being used from the same address
Claire: If you would like to know more details, I would like you to contact our finance department via e-mail
Claire: finance@gowildcasino.com
Xxxx: I've had so much trouble with email previously
Xxxx: Plus if the decision had already been made, why wasn't I informed?
Xxxx: Why don't you instruct them to email me right now with the full reasoning and supposed proof against me?
Xxxx: Because I still maintain I have never before opened a GoWild account
Xxxx: I have signed up and played at many casinos and poker rooms over the years and never once have I been barred
Claire: I will speak on behalf of you with them and tell them to contact you via e-mail ASAP
Xxxx: Wouldnt that have been common sense though?
Xxxx: After all the hassle I've already been through?
Xxxx: Why would you people just keep me deliberately hanging each and every time?
Claire: I'm very sorry you feel that way Xxxx
Claire: The best I can for you is to speak to them in your name
Xxxx: Fine, I'll hope to hear from someone by email but the only messages I've ever gotten are the original registration email and one confirming my documents were finally received after they had been bouncing for a week
Xxxx: I just don't understand how a casino I'd read many good things about could treat me so shabbily
Claire: Hope this will resolve in your advantage
Xxxx: Even if I was indeed a cheat and a fraud as suspected, why would you never even send an email explaining the situation?
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to xxxxxx@xxxxxx.com at the end of your chat.

The chat ended abruptly because I simply couldn't take any more.

Over the course of this whole mess I experienced a wide range of emotions: anticipation at the opportunity to play and maybe win; disbelief at being unable to; skepticism of the chat rep; resignation at finally complying with a dubious demand; annoyance at being locked out; anger at finding out why; doubt over whether I could unknowingly be guilty; determination to prove I was not; frustration at being unable to send my docs; bewilderment over the lack of response...

Ending with apathy. When I concluded the final chat session, I decided that I had had enough of GoWild and it was not worth the effort and time I had spent for approximately three weeks. After all, I had not spent a single cent there or even played any games, free or otherwise, so had no outstanding financial stake there. It wasn't worth it to try and contact them again when they were barely ever bothered to contact me. Even posting about the whole experience took a backseat to other matters.

However, I saw a thread by someone seemingly puzzled as to why this casino is not highly esteemed by Casinomeister and was finally prompted to respond. While mine is not the most horrific or woeful casino-related story ever told, it undoubtedly ranks as the worst customer service experience I have ever had - bar none. Seriously, I have had much better encounters at a couple of rogue casinos (yes, I knew what I was getting into) that are totally despised here. Finally, I have yet to receive that email from GoWild's finance department - or anyone else - explaining why my account was and remains closed... But I'm certainly not holding my breath until its estimated arrival time of never.

 

[Cant_Get_Right]

This place isn't right! There has been problems with this place for a while.

 

[Mavin1]

About two months back, I signed up at GoWild Casino through another site offering a free no deposit bonus. Went to claim it through live chat and all seemed to be proceeding as normal - barring the overenthusiastic rep with her 'dears' and exclamation marks and smilies - until she stated that I had to provide verification documents in order to be credited the bonus. Mind you, this is not exactly a staggering offer to begin with but an amount of less than US $20 with standard site wagering requirements.

It is my opinion if a casino requires documents in order to receive a free chip to test them out, this is a big turn off. They do not need anything from a player unless the player after testing decides to continue and deposit with a casino, so you the player are not obligated to give them anything, if they insist, then you are also not obligated to deal with them.

Also there have been several casinos that I have discovered as having more than one account with through live or phone chats, I simply asked if they could delete the old account as I forgot about it and didn't use it anyways and they always have, gladly. I have not been blocked or locked for this reason.

There are many good casinos that don't make a wade through so much garbage just to try them out. Just as there are many good casinos that are more than happy to work with their players to help get things in order.

These are just some of the good things a reputable casino will do for it's clients.

 

[kakata]

There are many good casinos that don't make a wade through so much garbage just to try them out. Just as there are many good casinos that are more than happy to work with their players to help get things in order.


many?are you sure?

 

[thebizb]

I've never had a problem here before, i receive my requested withdraws about 24hrs after requesting and when i sent my docs to be verified it took them 30 mins to do it. Sucks though what you've gone through.. i'd move on if it ever happened to me.

 

[chayton]

Not that I'm a huge fan of GoWild or anything - I do have an account but I don't play there very often. But if any casino is offering a free chip to new players and they have reason to believe that someone from the same computer/address already received and played the free chip, I can see the point they're making. Most casinos would give the chip, then hit the player for ID and/or lock the account when they try to cash out.

To the OP - IMO the point you should be most concerned about is the lockout/player fraud accusation. You wasted some time and got frustrated, but you're not out any money, you didn't play for hours to meet WR and THEN get your account locked, so really what did you lose? You didn't get a free chip, big whoop - GoWild has a max cashout on free chips anyhow.

But being accused of player fraud is serious business, and it's something you should try very hard to clear up or it may come back and bite you somewhere down the line. There have been rumors - albiet hotly denied - of a casino blacklist, and if those rumors have any basis in fact, you may find casino security breathing down your neck no matter where you play. Not that there actually *IS* a blacklist. But maybe there is.

 

[Mavin1]

There are many good casinos that don't make a wade through so much garbage just to try them out. Just as there are many good casinos that are more than happy to work with their players to help get things in order.


many?are you sure?

Depends on ones definition of many, could mean a couple, a few or several to some, many to others.
My personal disclaimer....

 

[FourTeller]

It is my opinion if a casino requires documents in order to receive a free chip to test them out, this is a big turn off. They do not need anything from a player unless the player after testing decides to continue and deposit with a casino, so you the player are not obligated to give them anything, if they insist, then you are also not obligated to deal with them.

This is exactly how I felt upon the verification issue first being brought up under these specific circumstances. I could understand them being particularly diligent about investigating customers beforehand if the free chip was of a higher value or had very low/no WR but that was no really the case here. What started out as a quest for some cheap entertainment instead turned into a chore, rather defeating the purpose of me being enticed to play there on the house and perhaps enjoying it enough to become a depositor. Plus I don't like sending sensitive personal data unless and until it is absolutely necessary.

There are many good casinos that don't make a wade through so much garbage just to try them out. Just as there are many good casinos that are more than happy to work with their players to help get things in order.

Exactly, which is why I ultimately decided my focus was better off directed elsewhere.

 

[FourTeller]

...if any casino is offering a free chip to new players and they have reason to believe that someone from the same computer/address already received and played the free chip, I can see the point they're making. Most casinos would give the chip, then hit the player for ID and/or lock the account when they try to cash out.

Yes and with good rationale because until the withdrawal stage, a free chip is essentially a win-win proposition for both parties. The casino has hooked a new customer into trying out their product/services and the player gets the chance to win some free money without spending any of their own, or at least a few minutes/hours of entertainment in pursuit of that goal. In my case, I never even got around to opening up a single game so, unike the vast majority of users with a beef against a particular establishment, I didn't even get to sample what GoWild was offering.

To the OP - IMO the point you should be most concerned about is the lockout/player fraud accusation. You wasted some time and got frustrated, but you're not out any money, you didn't play for hours to meet WR and THEN get your account locked, so really what did you lose? You didn't get a free chip, big whoop - GoWild has a max cashout on free chips anyhow.

But being accused of player fraud is serious business, and it's something you should try very hard to clear up or it may come back and bite you somewhere down the line. There have been rumors - albiet hotly denied - of a casino blacklist, and if those rumors have any basis in fact, you may find casino security breathing down your neck no matter where you play. Not that there actually *IS* a blacklist. But maybe there is.

This is precisely why I pursued the matter for almost three weeks, but what am I supposed to do when the charges being levelled against me are poorly defined and GoWild never even attempts to address me directly about them? Notice that for the entirety of this saga I only ever dealt firsthand with live chat reps, who are basically IMO at the very bottom of the customer service ladder. Naturally the responses I got from them were usually conflicting and vague at best. The person or people who could give me clear answers were not clearly identified and never reachable from my end.

Email, which is my preferred means of dealing with casinos, proved to be a stumbling block in this case as most of my messages were returned as undeliverable. Clearly there was a technical problem with their system lasting at least 3-4 days (saw in another thread that someone went through the same thing) and, quite frankly, that is inexcusable for an organization in this type of business. Even then, when I finally did get a response and it was clear the GoWild finance/security people knew of my issue and the fact that I eagerly awaited a response, none was forthcoming.

Understand that I have been in the online game for many years now (since 2005) and have dealt with numerous poker rooms and casino over that time. The vast majority of them I've had no problems with but, inevitably, there has been the occasional dispute involving bonus or withdrawal issues. In fact, I had one incident early on involving a similar accusation - except I had already reached the cashout stage and actually got an email with some specifics about the situation, which was eventually resolved in my favour (but I never returned to the site in question).

Basically, I have signed up and played at many places before, during and after this GoWild mess and can honestly state that this is an isolated and unique case based on how it was dealt with or, more accurately, not. Whatever information they have in their 'system' implicating me in multiaccounting has not prevented me from registering and playing - with bonuses - at a few other Microgaming casinos since then. Over the years I have always been careful about following protocol, reading tedious T&Cs etc. and - while I may have exploited the odd loophole when bonus whoring* - have never intentionally broken any gaming site rules.


*An increasingly difficult and less profitable venture nowadays to the point where I hardly consider myself still in the practice. However, while I have been a bonus whore and proud of it, I have never been an abuser i.e. done multiple signups, made prohibited bets to clear WR, used bots or gnomes etc. Whatever most casinos (including those on here) or the odd poker room (less of an issue) try to claim, playing a bonus profitably while following the stated general terms and promotional rules does not automatically make one an 'abuser'.

 

[Floyd GoWild]

Hi Everyone,

Before my response allow me to express that I was shocked by the title of this thread and really thought that something went terribly wrong but as far as I went into the case; reading the thread comprehensively, investigating every person that had a touch to this issue and reviewing the talked account, I found that the people here at GoWild did their job correctly and I will explain why I think so:


Fourteller opened an account at GoWild casino and was welcomed instantly by one of our representatives, GoWild security team have found that an account was already opened from the exact same place and on the exact same day (I will not get into the exact details for privacy and security). These accounts were opened from a country that barely send any players to GoWild, it was very suspicious to see 2 accounts from the same place opened at the same day trying to claim our free welcome bonus. As a part of our security detection routine, the mentioned account was locked and never opened again.

We believe ourselves to be fair and open minded, so we asked for documents (this is our normal procedure in such cases of duplicate info in more than 1 account and obviously for legit accounts, bonuses are issued instantly and without any requests whatsoever!!) in order to examine whether it is possible to approve this account after all. Yet we have received no documents up until two weeks later and once we have, we took our right to keep this account locked, which is also our obligation.

In regards to the accusation that our Emails are not working: The email responses that were sent to us by Fourteller were showing, without a doubt, that the message was not delivered to GoWild at all (the email provider response was pasted in one of the chats with our representatives). The accusation should be pointed to the Email service provider and not addressed aggressively over the Casino live chat towards the representatives (who are amazing and polite, it is not wrong to be polite when you give service!), after checking the information gathered including the documents that were finally sent to us, our security team decided not to reopen the account. this is a procedure that we are obligated to pursuit moreover, our system is efficient and we put efforts and money in it to prevent the situation of a winner cant get paid (again, by law) for all sorts of security and sometimes even fraud reasons. Ours and every other online casino's terms of use clearly states that only one account per house hold is allowed to be opened.

Thank you all for making it a healthy debate;

here are my comments:

FourTeller -
I personally resent your attitude towards the online representatives and the way you describe them on the thread, the fact that you are a bit angry regardless if it is justified or not, doesn't change the fact that when someone do his/her job they do it right and give 100% good service as you received throughout all your chats with the GoWild representatives. I can understand your feelings and I am always open to the possibility that even when things looks 100% right, in rare cases it could be wrong, yet you are stressing the truth in such demagogic way that you make it seem like this is not the case,
Here are some examples to what I mean:
"arring the overenthusiastic rep with her 'dears' and exclamation marks and smilies" - "his is not exactly a staggering offer to begin with" - "Immediately smelling a rat" - "dear' Gia lied earlier" - "not worth the effort and time I had spent for approximately three weeks" - " I have had much better encounters at a couple of rogue casinos" - "Repeated emails (at least four) to GoWild support and other addresses on their website all bounced back" etc...

Now, the most amazing thing is that this thread was opened yesterday when your account was opened at 2/13/2010 11:18:26 PM - over two month ago, yet you seem to be very much into details remember exactly what you did, how you felt and what happened even though you mention throughout the post how insignificant all that was and still is and how GoWild is the worst place to go, I dont say it is not possible, I just say all the pieces of this puzzle doesn't fit together.

other than this, GoWild has no sister casinos and during all communications no one ever mentioned the word fraud except yourself.

To conclude, I think that during the two month you have waited you could send me a PM or a complaint Email to GoWild and try to see if there is a solution for you, the fact that you didn't just makes me feel that this post is insincere and used to serve a certain agenda, I apologize if I am wrong.

Cant Get_Right - can you please explain or give examples for your argument?

Mavin1 - I agree that the free bonus shouldn't be attached to sending a document or registering a credit card..etc.. and in fact at GoWild, legit accounts (which are the majority or new accounts opened) are getting their bonus right away! cases such as this (violation of terms) will never receive a bonus as they cannot deposit or be paid.

thebizb - What you describe is how things normally go at GoWild, usually the good experiences are not being mentioned and thank you for sharing yours.

chayton - We have never mentioned the word fraud and the violation of our terms is clear, yet not considered to be a crime and all we did is keeping the account closed, FourTeller would not be able to use it for depositing or withdrawing.



Once again thank you all, as always I am available for you at all times

Yours,

Floyd W.
GoWild Gaming

 

[mclee321]

Just for the record -

1. OP. You tried to play a free chip and it didn't work out. Hardy the biggest injustice on the planet considering the casino was concerned over some issues. I'm not sure it was worth the gigantic orignal post, and overly dramatic statements. It's not like you were conned out of a 2 million progressive jackpot. Perspective.

2. Why didn't you just leave it and go elsewhere? Free chips are a dime a dozen, they all come with endless rules and conditions.
.
3. I have a Go Wild account, they offer some stupid bonuses and some great ones. After verification they have never dicked me around and pay out within a day. I'm not sure you can ask for more than that these days. I'm probably biased due to my own treatment, but so be it.

 

[FourTeller]

Before my response allow me to express that I was shocked by the title of this thread and really thought that something went terribly wrong but as far as I went into the case;

When I fininished typing my post and it was time to name the thread, I admit I found myself grasping for the right word to describe what I went through - only terms like 'disaster' and 'nightmare' immadiately sprang to mind. While certainly not inaccurate from my perspective, I agree they are perhaps stronger than warranted. Only much later on did it strike me that 'ordeal' was the ideal word and I even came back to edit my post but the option was no longer available.

reading the thread comprehensively, investigating every person that had a touch to this issue and reviewing the talked account, I found that the people here at GoWild did their job correctly and I will explain why I think so:

I certainly don't agree that everyone at GoWild performed to the best of their ability, or even adequately.

Fourteller opened an account at GoWild casino and was welcomed instantly by one of our representatives, GoWild security team have found that an account was already opened from the exact same place and on the exact same day (I will not get into the exact details for privacy and security). These accounts were opened from a country that barely send any players to GoWild, it was very suspicious to see 2 accounts from the same place opened at the same day trying to claim our free welcome bonus. As a part of our security detection routine, the mentioned account was locked and never opened again.

Finally I get the answer I was seeking from GoWild all along! Now my question is: Why couldn't any of the chat reps simply tell me this to begin with? Or why couldn't the finance or security or support or whatever team email me this information? Without specifically knowing what had triggered the alarm, how could I possibly even begin to explain the situation? I had a glimmer of a suspicion that my country of origin was a factor but simply being accused of opening 'multiple accounts from the same address' didn't particularly narrow it down i.e. was it based on IP or mailing address.

So let me explain the country situation. Last year I moved back home from Canada where I had lived for five years and where I first started playing online. Previous CM posts have alluded to the fact that I was located there and it used to be listed as my location. There is a reason I deliberately don't disclose where I currently am any more and Floyd has pretty much confirmed the logic behind my decision. Suffice to say that I moved from a highly developed G8 country to a so-called 'developing nation' or 'third world country.'

I'm not ashamed of where I come from, far from it, but it is a definite disadvantage when it comes to playing online for a number of reasons, the most obvious one being that I immediately stick out like a sore thumb because there is practically no one else from my general geographic area engaging in this activity.With that being the case, it surely defies logic that I would be stupid enough to sign up and try to claim the exclusive bonus twice on the very same day from such an exotic and unusual location.

We believe ourselves to be fair and open minded, so we asked for documents (this is our normal procedure in such cases of duplicate info in more than 1 account and obviously for legit accounts, bonuses are issued instantly and without any requests whatsoever!!) in order to examine whether it is possible to approve this account after all.

Let me post the very first live chat I had at GoWild that started all this:

info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Gia'
Gia: Hello Xxxx
Xxxx: Hi, I just signed up from xxxxxxxxx.com and would like to claim the $15 free bonus
Gia: Xxxx thank you for joining us
Gia: Allow me a few minutes and i will check everything for you
Xxxx: OK ty
Gia: and in the meatime i will provide you link of our Terms so you can read a bit about our games and bonuses
Gia: Xxxx i am back
Gia: I have checked everything for you and i can see that we have some very sweet things here for you
Gia: so now
Xxxx: OK
Gia: all you need to do us to send us a copy of your ID and some utility bill that has your address on it to support@gowildcasino.com
Xxxx: Just to get teh bonus credited? Thought that usually comes afterwards i.e. when cashing out...
Gia: Dear it is just few clicks from receiving your free bonus and
Gia: as soon as you send them you will be enjoying with us
Xxxx: It is just I have not seen anyone else at LCB asked to send in ID just to get the bonus - which isn't that big anyway - credited
Xxxx: I find it curious and wonder if Iam being singled out for some reason...
Gia: We are asking for documents almost all the time dear Xxxx
Gia: it is our standard procedure, some details need to be confirmed and as soon as your documents are approved you will be having a wild time with us
Xxxx: Sorry but it's not a good start to my experience with Go Wild. Even though I hae the documents ready to send, I again ask if it is typical of you to request them BEFORE giving out what is not a really big bonus that I'd more than likely bust out before ever getting the chance to hit the withdraw button?
Xxxx: Please answer the question - whether it is normal of you to require ID BEFORE crediting this bonus?
Gia: And as i already told you Xxxx it is our standard procedure when some details need to be confirmed
Gia: Documenst are requested before crediting free welcome bonus
Xxxx: Well I am not convinced and will be checking first to see if other people had to do this, because I do not believe in sending such sensitive info unless it is ncessary i.e. actual *real* money is potentially involved, not a modest bonus I don't even know I'll make playthrough on.
Xxxx: Bye.
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to xxxxxx@xxxxxx.com at the end of your chat.

Notice how Gia keeps trying to stress that requests for documents prior to issuing the bonus are normal. This is where my animosity towards GoWild and this particular rep stems from i.e. the initial attempt to mislead me as to the reason why I was required to send verification to begin with. Even when she eventually brings up the fact 'some details' need checking out - which is a far cry from stating there are possible security issues with my account - it is with the inference that it is a foregone conclusion that I'll get the bonus.

Yet we have received no documents up until two weeks later and once we have, we took our right to keep this account locked, which is also our obligation.

My original post makes the reasons behind the delay in sending my documents abundantly clear so I won't address that again. However, despite the fact that GoWild did eventually receive them, my account remains closed and I have yet to receive an explanation for that decision. The documents I sent fully backed up the personal details I provided upon registration so, unless there were serious issues regarding the legitimacy or quality of the scans, how is it that sending them still made no difference - unless the decision to bar me from your casino was already final?

In regards to the accusation that our Emails are not working: The email responses that were sent to us by Fourteller were showing, without a doubt, that the message was not delivered to GoWild at all (the email provider response was pasted in one of the chats with our representatives). The accusation should be pointed to the Email service provider and not addressed aggressively over the Casino live chat towards the representatives (who are amazing and polite, it is not wrong to be polite when you give service!)...

Here's the live chat in question (minus the copied email text) - not one of my prouder moments but I was almost at the end of my rope by this point:

info: Please wait for a site operator to respond.
info: You are now chatting with 'Amber'
Xxxx: Hello
Xxxx: Welcome to GoWild
Xxxx: I want to get my account problem sorted out once and for all.
Xxxx: Will ANY one from GoWild contact me by email?
Xxxx: Yes I see your account has been locked and I also see a note that it will be opened as soon as all documents are verified
Xxxx: I have REPEATEDLY tried to send my documents through email but they are all bouncing!
Xxxx: EVERY single one sent to an address ending in gowildcasino.com is returned by Xxxxxx!
Amber: Can you text back to me what info do you recieve when the email bounces back
Xxxx: Here's the first: <SNIP>
Xxxx: the next: <SNIP>
Xxxx: Again: <SNIP>
Xxxx: And the last: <SNIP>
Amber: Try to send it to support@gowildcasino.com and info@gowildgaming .com
Xxxx: I've tried the info@gowildgaming.com as a last resort - no reply yet but at least I don't think it has bounced
Xxxx: But why don't YOU people try emaiing me since you're the ones accusing me of being a cheat?
Xxxx: I wouldn't even have known my account was locked if I hadn't tried logging in
Xxxx: Because at this point I don't care if I ever play at your casino
Xxxx: But if soneone's using my details I need to know for sure
Xxxx: Since I'm being accused of multiple accounts and attempted fraud
Xxxx: So why don't you actually help me by getting someone to concact ME for a change, be email or even phone?
Amber: How about we try by fax?
Amber: Can you send us a fax message
Xxxx: No way I am paying to sed those docs, not when I don't eve nhave a cent in your casino
Xxxx: Why is it so hard for you [eople to email me, just so I know for sure your email works, hmmm?
Xxxx: What sort of support staff do you have that can't send me an email?
Amber: We will now send you a test email, however this is a technical issue that support is unable to help you with
Xxxx: Believe me, I have tried to be patient with this situation but this is the last time I am actually going to make the effort to reach out to GoWild when you won't do the same
Xxxx: We have sent you the test email
Xxxx: Fine, I'll check for it and hopefully be able to reply to it.
Xxxx: Great, I already see it in my inbox
Xxxx: But it's from support@gowildcasino.com which has just kept bouncing - guess I'll just have to try again and see if it finally works...
Amber: Yes we just wanted to see if you could recieve emails from us
Amber: I will forward these errors you sent me to techical department so they can see what the issue is
Xxxx: Fine, I'm off to try yet again but honestly I'm just about fed up with with my emails not getting through so if they still bounce I'll just have to post about my experience and hope no one out there is actually misusing my info.
Xxxx: OK, bye.
Amber: Take care
info: Your chat transcript will be sent to xxxxxx@xxxxxx.com at the end of your chat.

Whether the fault ultimately lies with my popular free email provider or GoWild, the fact remains that the only messages that were undeliverable during that period of time were those directed to any address ending in @gowildcasino.com - otherwise, I had absolutely no problems sending and receiving other email from my account. As for being 'aggressive' with live chat, I was understandably frustrated at all my messages bouncing and the continued lack of response from GoWild - even so, at the end I rated this rep positively based on her performance.

...after checking the information gathered including the documents that were finally sent to us, our security team decided not to reopen the account. this is a procedure that we are obligated to pursuit moreover, our system is efficient and we put efforts and money in it to prevent the situation of a winner cant get paid (again, by law) for all sorts of security and sometimes even fraud reasons. Ours and every other online casino's terms of use clearly states that only one account per house hold is allowed to be opened.

Does that mean that the other account you have linked mine with had the same personal details contained in the documents I sent? Otherwise, what is the basis for concluding that both were opened from the same household, other than the fact that they were registered on the same day from the same country? As unlikely as I myself admit this to be, considering how few of my fellow citizens even have internet access let alone play online, did it ever occur to you that it could be a genuine coincidence?

Once again we come to what I consider to be the crux of the matter. Despite an earlier lofty proclamation from Floyd that I bolded earlier, the casino industry as a whole - not just GoWild - is neither 'fair' nor 'open minded,' far from it. One only needs to look at most sites' promotional terms and, specifically, the list of countries that are excluded from bonus eligibility or have higher wagering requirements placed upon them. More often than the same regions keep cropping up like China, eastern Europe or Scandinavia.

In this business, certain customers are considered guilty before being proven innocent, based purely on where they happen to be located. Even worse, this is a sentiment that is not only exclusive to casinos themselves but is often shared by other players from more priviledged, less restricted locales. For instance, I was recently on a popular UK-based message board where a no deposit bonus was being discussed, and someone mentioned that its days were numbered because the offer had just shown up on a Polish forum.

Now imagine me being from a place whose average standard of living is much lower than that of Poland. Internet access is far from widespread and what service is available often tends to be expensive, even by western standards - mine certainly is Despite this usage is definitely increasing and, with higher computer ownership, improved communications infrastructure and hopefully lower costs to come, there will be many more people from here online in the future.

It just so happens that my country has about the same population as that of Canada, maybe a bit higher. Would my GoWild account have come up under the same immediate scrutiny had I signed up from there? Right now, I actually consider it a bigger advantage than drawback to be one of a very few people from here playing online, because it means my locale remains under the general casino watchlist radar. Unfortunately, this GoWild situation is one where the reverse is true.

Now my internet technical knowhow is pedestrian at best but I suspect that the reason I have been linked to another account is because we use the same ISP that happens to employ proxy servers, which means that it likely appears that we signed up from the same IP address. I use a wireless USB modem that accesses the internet via the most popular mobile telephone network in the country. If proxies work the way I believe they do, chances are anyone else with the same 3G connection is being routed through the same central IP address. (I stand to be corrected if my assumption is wrong.)

I personally resent your attitude towards the online representatives and the way you describe them on the thread, the fact that you are a bit angry regardless if it is justified or not, doesn't change the fact that when someone do his/her job they do it right and give 100% good service as you received throughout all your chats with the GoWild representatives.

You have the right to stick up for your organization's employees but that doesn't change the facts as I see them from a customer's perspective. Notice that the only representative I singled out out for negative attention was Gia, and even that was based solely on the first GoWild chat that I felt set the completely wrong note based on her misleading info and overenthusiastic tone. Personally I don't find her calling me 'dear,' using numerous smilies and promising me 'a wild time' particularly professional The second chat with her was much improved in that regard.

I can understand your feelings and I am always open to the possibility that even when things looks 100% right, in rare cases it could be wrong, yet you are stressing the truth in such demagogic way that you make it seem like this is not the case,
Here are some examples to what I mean:
"arring the overenthusiastic rep with her 'dears' and exclamation marks and smilies" - "his is not exactly a staggering offer to begin with" - "Immediately smelling a rat" - "dear' Gia lied earlier" - "not worth the effort and time I had spent for approximately three weeks" - " I have had much better encounters at a couple of rogue casinos" - "Repeated emails (at least four) to GoWild support and other addresses on their website all bounced back" etc...

What did you expect from a customer that feels unjustly aggrieved and wronged, a totally neutral and objective report devoid of colourful expressions? Yes, I allowed a sense of bitterness and sarcasm to creep into my narrative and make no apologies for it. This is an account of my personal experience, not a 'straight' news article for a mainstream publication - which, by the way, I'm more than capable of writing if I chose to since I studied media and journalism at university.

Now, the most amazing thing is that this thread was opened yesterday when your account was opened at 2/13/2010 11:18:26 PM - over two month ago, yet you seem to be very much into details remember exactly what you did, how you felt and what happened even though you mention throughout the post how insignificant all that was and still is and how GoWild is the worst place to go, I dont say it is not possible, I just say all the pieces of this puzzle doesn't fit together.

You make 'over two months ago' practically sound like a lifetime when it's not. Again, I already explained why it took me this long to post and what finally sparked me to do so. As for remembering all that occurred with such clarity, obviously the whole experience was particularly memorable to me because of how highly unpleasant it was throughout, from my perspective. Where exact recollection failed me, the fact that I kept relevant chat transcripts and emails also helped.

other than this, GoWild has no sister casinos and during all communications no one ever mentioned the word fraud except yourself.

Unfortunately, there is one live chat (think it was the second overall) that I failed to keep a record of, which is where the issue of other GoWild-linked sites came up. Basically, I once again asked the chat rep (forgot her name) why my account was locked and she implied that I had signed up at more than one casino within the group and that was not allowed. When I challenged her to name a sister site, all she could come up with was GoWild Poker.

As for the word 'fraud,' I bring it up because it is ultimately what GoWild has indicted me of by claiming I signed up twice in order to claim the no deposit bonus. It is, according to one Old / Expired Link of the word I just found, "Deceitful conduct designed to manipulate another person to give something of value..."

To conclude, I think that during the two month you have waited you could send me a PM or a complaint Email to GoWild and try to see if there is a solution for you, the fact that you didn't just makes me feel that this post is insincere and used to serve a certain agenda, I apologize if I am wrong.

First of all, I did not just 'wait' two months to post this. I pursued the matter over a three-week period, during which I was the one constantly having to prod GoWild for any type of response. In my last live chat, I once again conveyed my strong desire for someone to email me with the details of why my account was locked and the rep said she would pass my request on. It was early March by then and, believe it or not, my stronger emotions had subsided and I thought to at least read the official response before deciding to post. Again, I am still waiting for that message to arrive... any day now I'm sure.

As for PMing you, I agree it was an option but, as my posting history suggests, I'm not on this forum regularly. I vaguely recalled there possibly being a forum rep on here but wasn't sure and, by the end, didn't particularly feel bothered to once again go out of my way to check. Besides, considering the serious nature of this complaint, surely it warranted a direct email response from GoWild after confirming receipt of my documents that I already tried sending multiple times, so that avenue was already exhausted in my mind.

Regarding the bolded charge levelled against me, I assure you that my post is most sincere and that I do have an agenda: to get casinos like your to take communication with customers more seriously. The fact that live chat was pretty much the only means of getting in touch with GoWild is a big minus in my book, given what I wrote earlier about it being the lowest rung on the customer service ladder - in fact many sites don't bother to have it and I don't particularly mind, as long as there is good email support.

The simple fact is that this thread would not exist if I had simply gotten what I kept asking for all along i.e. an email clearly explaining why my account was locked to begin with and, later, the reason for keeping it closed. What if GoWild was one of those sites without live chat? What if there was no rep here or I didn't know about CM? Yet even after confirming that email to and from your site was fine again after the initial technical difficulty, no definitive response was ever forthcoming.

 

[maxd]

I found myself grasping for the right word ... Only much later on did it strike me that 'ordeal' was the ideal word

So let it be written, so let it be done. Thread title changed.

 

[FourTeller]

J1. OP. You tried to play a free chip and it didn't work out. Hardy the biggest injustice on the planet considering the casino was concerned over some issues. I'm not sure it was worth the gigantic orignal post, and overly dramatic statements. It's not like you were conned out of a 2 million progressive jackpot. Perspective.

I can totally see where you're coming from and your viewpoint is perfectly valid. The thread title could have been less dramatic but I was stumped for something better at the time... However, I thought I made it clear in the course of my lengthy spiel that the bonus was no longer the focus of my displeasure with GoWild, although it was obviously what started it.

2. Why didn't you just leave it and go elsewhere? Free chips are a dime a dozen, they all come with endless rules and conditions.

Believe me, I did
.

3. I have a Go Wild account, they offer some stupid bonuses and some great ones. After verification they have never dicked me around and pay out within a day. I'm not sure you can ask for more than that these days. I'm probably biased due to my own treatment, but so be it.

Let me make one thing clear: I am not attempting to preach to the converted. In fact, despite what Floyd obviously thinks, I am not even advocating that people stay away or never consider signing up there. I even mentioned in one of the live chats that I had read a lot of positive things about the casino - no doubt there are many satisfied customers there and likely with sound reason. Just because I feel that GoWild has treated me poorly doesn't mean that I automatically assume everyone is dealt with the same way.

 

[Nifty29]

FourTeller - I did actually read everything you wrote, and it seems to me the only person dragging the issue out was you.

Your account was suspended because it seems that you tried to claim the welcome bonus twice - and this was obviously confirmed because the casino did not re-open the account after reviewing your documents. If the documents you sent were unrelated to the other account, they would have done so, so its a simple conclusion to draw that you were trying to pull a fast one. After all, a casino doesnt make money from people who cant deposit.

If you dont like sending documents, then you should get used to the idea of not being paid and perhaps not receiving bonuses. You are right that come countries have higher security expectations than others, but this is based on a history of bonus abuse/fraud from such countries. Its the same with car and house insurance - where you live determines your premiums/alarm requirements, based on past experience and the number of claims in that area.

At the end of the day, you were denied a free chip. You were asked to provide docs, which you didnt initially, so it stayed that way. Who is at fault here? You are. Anyone who had nothing to hide would just send them the ID surely? In my experience, those that dont want to provide them have something to hide.

IMO you did make a huge mountain out of a molehill, and went on a huge rant because a CS rep said it was 'standard practice' to request ID before bonuses are issued. Well, obviously it wasnt, so what do you want them to do?? Sack her?? She made a mistake, but if the casino wants ID then its their right, and if you want the bonus you need to provide it. Simple.

As for not being ashamed of your country.....well the fact you wont tell anyone says otherwise.

Sorry, but there are players out there with real problems.

 

[vinylweatherman]

THIS is where casinos screw up. Whilst a "poor" country is far less likely to have people who can afford to play, or even have internet access, NO consideration whatsoever is given to immigrants from WEALTHY countries who move to these poorer countries, bringing with them their "first world" wealth and lifestyle. Such players should be "ringfenced" from the usual stats from that region, so in this case it is NOT "2 players from a POOR background signing up on the same day", but ONE player from this "poor background" who just happens to sign up on the same day as a WEALTHY Canadian immigrant who has been a long time regular player.

The term violation was stated to be "only one account per household", but this has NOT been proven by the Go Wild rep, who is more or less saying "one account per COUNTRY" in this case.

This player is right to pursue this with vigour, because if the casino has detected someone else using his details, HE HAS HAD HIS ID POTENTIALLY STOLEN & BEING USED FRAUDULENTLY, and he MUST get to the bottom of this, and get the local police involved, in case further damage ocurrs.

Although Go Wild say that people from this "poor" region rarely sign up, REMEMBER, this is a FREE CHIP, and 20 credits is A GREAT DEAL MORE for a "poor" person with internet access than it would be for one of us "first world" players. Free chips are likely to draw in players with little money because of the chance of "something for nothing", however there is likely to be a VERY low conversion rate to DEPOSITING players.

IP address matching alone is NOT ENOUGH by a LONG WAY to assume the accounts come from the same household, and this industry should take a course in BASIC telecoms, and they might understand.


Lesson 1

Dial up internet. The ISP holds a pool of IP addresses, and these are allocated ONLY when a subscriber connects to the internet. Each time a subscriber makes a connection, they are allocated an IP address from the pool, but this is unlikely to be the same one.

Since these come from the pool, the IP address used by player A to sign up is going to be allocated to many other subscribers to the same ISP. The coincidence is when one of these other subscribers also signs up for the casino whilst having been allocated the IP address that player A used earlier.

Lesson 2

Probability. Same place, same day is unlikely, but NOT IMPOSSIBLE. They say "lightning never strikes twice", but IT DOES, unlikely, but NOT impossible.

Funnily enough, casinos understand this WHEN IT SUITS THEM, for example - dealer gets 5 BJ in a row, and player screams "rigged". Casino says it is unlikely, but not impossible - it happens, bad luck.

But when THEY are on the receiving end of a similarly unlikely event "same place, same day sign up", no amount of evidence will convince them that this is not "rigged", but simply unlikely, but just one of those things - bad luck mate

This inconsistency in arguments is one reason players CONTINUE to give credibility to the "rigged" side of the "rigged" vs "bad luck" argument when it comes to gaming outcomes.


For this account to remain under a cloud (and locked), it MUST be a duplicate IN THE SAME HOUSEHOLD, and this STILL leaves the OP with the problem of WHO in their household signed up at Go Wild on the same day.


In the end, Go Wild have lost a potential "first world wealth" player since 2005, simply because he moved to a "third world" country, and this does NOT feature as a factor in security checks, who assume he is just another natural citizen of this region, where there is in operation some kind of "quota" based on the general poor wealth of this country.

Lesson 3

Email - when players get their emails bounced back, how are they supposed to know why unless someone tells them. A BUSINESS is expected to use an email provider that will DELIVER all inbound messages, not bounce them back, and it should NOT matter what email provider the CUSTOMER uses.

Lesson 4

CS - when you don't know the answer, DON'T MAKE IT UP, pass the question up the chain to someone who does. This would prevent the perception that CS are deliberately lying through different agents giving conflicting answers to the same question.
When CS say "someone will be in touch", MAKE IT HAPPEN - this was another thing that went horribly wrong in this case, despite promises, NO-ONE got back to the OP from finance/security after CS passed the query up the chain.

Once the rep explained to the forum what happened, the OP said "finally - an answer.....". It should NOT have needed three weeks of fruitless dealings with CS to get this far, it should have been dealt with LONG BEFORE it got to the stage of this thread being started, or the rep getting involved.

Go Wild CS are certainly polite, more so than other live chat CS I have dealt with, but politeness alone is no good, there has to be quality of service behind it, otherwise the politeness begins to look patronising.

 

[Nifty29]

Just a couple of things Vinyl:

1. The OP is using USB broadband via mobile network.

2. Floyd said "an account was already opened from the exact same place and on the exact same day (I will not get into the exact details for privacy and security)". I assume 'exact place' means something more than just the country, but maybe Floyd can help us there. Casinos dont generally reveal the exact information related to fraudulent accounts, for the obvious reason that others may try to get around it.

3. You said " For this account to remain under a cloud (and locked), it MUST be a duplicate IN THE SAME HOUSEHOLD, and this STILL leaves the OP with the problem of WHO in their household signed up at Go Wild on the same day." Exactly - which could mean machine ID or something like that. If the ID of the player did not convince them to re-open the account, then there must have been more similarities than just IP addy. In most cases, providing docs resolves these matters but there must be more to it.

I do agree that CSRs shouldnt make stuff up - its poor service. Just say you dont know and promise to send an email with the answer later. Trouble is, many players in live chat are so damn nasty or impatient they wouldnt accept that as an answer anyway....which is probably why CSRs make stuff up....circular logic anyone??

I still think the OP went OTT about a minor matter - he didnt lose any money, he wasnt owed any money, and he wasnt going to deposit any money (at that point anyway) - so whats the big fuss?

Also, the OP didnt contact the rep here before he posted, and didnt call the casino (there are numbers on the website). Yes, I know he shouldnt have to contact via phone, but if he was that concerned about ID theft and/or getting his bonus then he would have done it - email isnt 100% reliable, as I am discovering with another casino which you may be hearing more about in the next 24 hours..... He said he didnt know there was a rep here - in other words he didnt bother looking, because Floyd is definitely listed.

 

[Tengil]

A bit about the IP stuff. I was (falsely) "accused" of being linked to another account last year. Actually the definite proof they had was the IP address. It took weeks and loads of mails to get it resolved. And that was at a very reputable place and not a craphole like GoWild.

If I would like to multiaccount I could do it without getting caught.

And if Nifty thinks a player is a "fraudster" its nothing new, he actually thinks that every single player posting a complaint is a cheater.

 

[maxd]

And if Nifty thinks a player is a "fraudster" its nothing new, he actually thinks that every single player posting a complaint is a cheater.

And to be fair it needs be said that you tend towards holding forth that all players' arses are the very font of celestial illumination. To each their own.

 

[Tengil]

And to be fair it needs be said that you tend towards holding forth that all players' arses are the very font of celestial illumination. To each their own.

Of course, when the casinos act like they do one needs to stand up for the player. If more players would have acted in past years casinos couldnt get away with the crap they are pulling nowadays.

Its you and Bryan who decides who is a cheater and I always assume one is innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around.

 

[maxd]

Of course ... I always assume one is innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around.

Some folks like to assume the player is the 'innocent' party, others the casino. AFAIC there are just two parties, the issue is on the table between them and we roll up our sleeves: we see what we see when we see it and not before.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Some folks like to assume the player is the 'innocent' party, others the casino. AFAIC there are just two parties, the issue is on the table between them and we roll up our sleeves: we see what we see when we see it and not before.

It depends on who levels the accusation. Whoever accuses has the task of proving it. When a player accuses a casino game of cheating, they are told "prove it". It should be the same for a casino. IP address alone is NOT proof, and should NEVER be the ONLY thing used to make an accusation - this kind of thing is a joke. Machine ID is far better, especially when coupled with the IP address being the same. This WOULD be a strong indication that 2 different members of a household had opened accounts.

The term the rep uses to justify the decision to NOT reopen the account is the one prohibiting more than one account PER HOUSEHOLD. To justify this, there must be sufficient evidence that these are indeed duplicate accounts.

The fact that other players are FALSELY accused of this kind of thing, and then CLEARED after WEEKS of hassle proves that there is a lack of objectivity in the internal appeals processes within many operations.

I have TWICE had my accounts questioned, and this has proven to be mere coincidence. I was most recently under "investigation" by Prime casino earlier this year, and some while back Spin Palace made me submit enhanced documentation. I was paid both times, BUT the fact that this group STILL brings me into question after YEARS of membership makes me think there is a lack of common sense being brought to bear.

Reminds me of Little Britan sketch "computer says no.......". Computer says "fraud", and player has little chance of fighting it in many cases.

In this case, "computer says duplicate account", and no amount of documentation, emails, contact with the rep, will make any difference - no-one is prepared to look beyond the computer "flags" for an innocent coincidence being the cause, and this player cannot play because another account was first, even though he didn't open it. He had no trouble with other MGS casinos though, so I doubt he is interested in playing at Go Wild any more, BUT the issue of WHO is his doppleganger still lingers. Will it come back one day to bite him in the ass whilst playing elsewhere?

 

[maphesto]

In this particular issue it seems like the casino screwed up but the player made a bigger issue out of it than it was.

I don´t consider Go Wild a craphole as spiderlegz do but we all want the support staff telling the truth.
Niftys point about how players can be rude is of course true. This may have caused the chat girl to avoid the truth.

My two cents.

 

[maxd]

It depends on who levels the accusation....

It's not that simple, in my experience.

Example A: casino abuses player to no end, player cries 'Uncle!' and does a PAB calling the casino the arse of Satan. Who's the 'innocent'? Who knows until you dig into it.

Example B: player lies cheats and scams their way through the casino for yonks, finally the casino slams the cage door down on them and the player comes running to us with it. Who's the 'innocent'? You guessed it, don't know until there's digging done.

IMHO looking for the 'innocent' in the vast majority of these situations is like looking for the virgin in a maternity ward: wrong place, wrong time, and it's the wrong thing to be asking in the first place.

 

[Floyd GoWild]

Hi FourTeller and everyone

Thank you for your replies and comments, Please excuse me for not being able to address all issues as I cannot disclose any private information and hand in hand cannot talk about security procedures.

Talking about the Support representatives,
I still believe they did their job correctly as they kept an open mind and did all they could to help you resolve the matter - from your point of view you say that they did not give you the full information and maybe gave you a feeling that everything will be fine and should resolve - this is keeping an open mind because there is always a chance and we welcome every new player.
This line is very clear and was presented to you on chat on the beginning of your communication with GoWild: "Claire: I would like you to know you have 2 accounts in GoWild Casino, and you have already received promotions on your first account". - other than this we are not obligated to share any additional information.

As a person who has some experience with online gaming you probably know that most places would roughly say: "You cannot play with us for this and that reason, we apologize for the inconvenience" and that will be the end of it! as the representative have no personal gain from you staying around yet this is what makes our representatives so special - they felt that they might be able to help and that's what they did, even if you are not a fan of their manners, you have to take a look from the other side and appreciate them for their trials, they could just say " you have a multiple account and its against our terms and you have no chance at all" and that would wrap the issue up, but they didn't choose the easy way.. they wanted to see if there is a chance for you to join us - maybe they believed you and wanted to help... otherwise what in the world would their motive be to ask you for documentation?

As I can see it now, after we both respectfully discussed this matter, the reason for this issue is mainly because your inability to send emails to us, I do not know that reason for that and during my checking I can see that we did receive Emails from your service provider in the talked time frame but still, looking backwards I do believe you tried and something went wrong - We do not block email addresses and you must understand that we want and welcome new players to our casino from every country ( except a few that we cannot receive, yet your country is not one of them ).

Any discussion about the country is irrelevant to anyone who read what I wrote, as I only suggested that from our security point of view it seems suspicious and yes the location is exactly the same and whether you use a proxy server or anything else, maybe could explain the situation..but from our side we cannot guess those things and again, if you wish to try and check this matter further I am always at your service through PM and Email.


Bottom line, even if this case is unfortunate for both of us - I still think that your anger towards us is more for your feeling of injustice than an actual action or bad intention practiced by GoWild.

I hope that we can remain friendly to each other despite these feelings and I will be happy to hear from you and will do my very best to help.



Here are my comments for other friends on this thread:

Nifty29 - Well, you see things as they are in reality and I simply and strongly agree with you.

vinylweatherman - You misread my post as the country here is not the issue, the issue is opening more than one account per household, the country is great and personally I wish to visit it at least once in my life, I will not disclose personal or security information over the forum yet if you would have carefully read what I wrote you would find the following: "GoWild security team have found that an account was already opened from the exact same place and on the exact same day (I will not get into the exact details for privacy and security)". exact is the key word here, no one said anything else so the debate on a non existing situation is pointless.

You mentioned the following : "IP address matching alone is NOT ENOUGH by a LONG WAY to assume the accounts come from the same household, and this industry should take a course in BASIC telecoms, and they might understand."
I wanted to ask how did you determined that this issue is only IP related?

I resent your trial to present us as prejudiced, it is untrue and perhaps you should reconsider your words.

About the CS remarks, once again, I resent what you said as it has no grab in reality.

Another quote from your post: "In this case, "computer says duplicate account", and no amount of documentation, emails, contact with the rep, will make any difference" - and again comes the question, how did you come up with this false information about GoWild?

spiderlegz - Thank you for the "compliment".

maxd - I agree, things should be investigated before any conclusion.