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My confession, and where I am now...

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by sticks1977, Sep 2, 2011.

    Sep 2, 2011
  1. sticks1977

    sticks1977 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Graphic Designer
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    I have not told many people this - and would like to share my experience and possibly get some replies to what course I should be going down in the next few weeks...

    Lately I have been using gambling as an alternative source of income to try and pay down on some debts that I have slowly managed to abuse over the last few years. I have been gambling online for roughly 12 months and have had some rotten moments of luck. The main problem I have had is resorting to credit cards to fund my balance in the online casino.

    I won't exactly advertise or promote the site that I have been playing on - but they have a Live Dealer Roulette table that I often play at.

    Just this week I have cashed out $2,500 out of my account to pay off one of my credit cards that I had maxed out due to gambling. The cash out request it still being processed but this is the first time in months that I have actually cashed out the money and have felt good about it... I do not want to really go back to where I was a few weeks ago...

    I still have a LONG way to go and I guess registering here and writing up this thread - I want some advice and ideas from the people out there that may have had a similar experience to me, or can at least guide me in the right direction.

    I mainly play a system and set myself goals at the start of every month. My current goal is to win $180 per day and spread this over 3 sessions of play in the morning, afternoon and evening (attempt to win $60 per session). In the past I have been able to stick to a strict regimented way of playing and not letting greed and impatience take over. Unfortunately though it has been easier to say than do and have sometimes found myself in a heap of trouble.

    So far my current casino balance is sitting at $3,090. I wanted to get to $3,120 this morning but the way I was playing and risking a lot of money (at one stage was $200 behind where I needed to be). I find especially lately that is has been very hard and difficult to win on Roulette even placing small bets.

    My main method of betting in the past has been to cover 2 of the 3 dozens (eg. 13 - 36) on a European Wheel, the initial bet amount per dozen being what I want to win - $10 on each dozen to win $30, a profit of $10. If the first spin was a loss I would then triple my bet on the next spin - $30 per dozen. This method worked well when I happened to fall into a win but turned dangerous when I happened to always not be betting on the dozen that came up!

    Recently I have been using a 'Labouchere' method of betting and in the short term it has worked well. But it has it's own down-falls when I run into a loss streak of 5-10 spins when betting on an even result (eg. 1-18, Even, Red, Black, Odd, 19-36). Keeping in mind I am only wanting to win a total of $60 over a session of play (which often lasts for 15-30 minutes).

    So - after everything I have mentioned above - I would welcome feedback and any advice that I should be looking into. I have wondered whether to change my focus to Blackjack as the probability of losing 5-7 hands in a row on Blackjack may be less?

    Thanks for reading, and I look forward to any replies and also contributing myself to this forum in the coming weeks and months. It may help me even keep my feet on the ground and realise what I have done in the past but to also focus on the future!

    Regards, Shaun (sticks1977)
     
  2. Sep 2, 2011
  3. takethemoney

    takethemoney Banned User - Chargebacks at Slotastic

    Location:
    Washington
    You are not going to like my feedback, but here it is: close every damn credit card account and casino account that you have. Work out a repayment plan with your creditors and understand that your salvation is not going to come from gambling in any form. Find a new hobby, or treat gambling as a hobby and play for fun. Chasing losses and hoping to recoup them, with the dream of getting back on top is the delusion of pretty much every gambler who has had problems or has gone too far. The casinos recognize this and that psychological aspect is built right into the games. It's a trap. Run Jim!!! ;) (Shaun)
     
    14 people like this.
  4. Sep 2, 2011
  5. 4 of a kind

    4 of a kind Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll

    Occupation:
    Trans. Tech
    Location:
    New York
    I’m one of the old men here and have been gambling most of my adult life. My first emotion was to respond to your post like a father and give you hell for your obvious lack of education when it comes to gambling.

    This forum is loaded with many educated gamblers that will give you a good ass whipping for even suggesting any type of system for any gambling game offered by any casino, land or online could possibly work for the long term.

    You state you’ve only been gambling online for 12 months with the delusional thoughts of thinking gambling could act as an alternative source of income and in turn help you pay off your debts created over the last few years with your winnings. Since you didn’t specify how you actually put yourself in debt over the years, I could only assume it wasn’t from gambling, since you certainly wouldn’t consider to expect online gambling to give you a different outcome. (I hope)

    I see that your only 33 years old, and there is a good chance you like the millions and millions before you that thought the same way only to learn the hard way, that gambling with money you couldn’t afford to give to charity will certainly nail your coffin closed. Considering the fact that your still young means there is plenty of time left for you to get off the ground and brush the dirt off.

    You sound like a rookie gambler; yet, smart enough to realize there is a problem. I hope you didn’t come here expecting someone to give you the winning recipe.

    My favorite saying is: “Las Vegas wasn't built from paying winners”.

    What takethemoney says above, although short and to the point is dead on balls. Take that advice and remember you could always try gambling again for some fun later on in life when your back on your feet and mature enough to gamble with the right expectations.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2011
    10 people like this.
  6. Sep 2, 2011
  7. dominique

    dominique Dormant account

    Occupation:
    webmistress
    Location:
    The Boonies
    Sticks, I only have one comment:

    SYSTEMS DO NOT WORK!

    Run fast and run far! Gambling is entertainment, not an income. Never gamble what you cannot afford to lose!
     
    2 people like this.
  8. Sep 2, 2011
  9. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots webmeister

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    A great saying from Albert Einstein
     
  10. Sep 2, 2011
  11. Pulver

    Pulver Senior Member PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Tellus
    Worth a read:

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  12. Sep 2, 2011
  13. 4 of a kind

    4 of a kind Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll

    Occupation:
    Trans. Tech
    Location:
    New York
    "No one can possibly win at roulette unless he steals money from the table while the croupier isn't looking." — Albert Einstein

    You forgot to mention that he said that after his first and only visit to Vegas, and made that comment just after watching the game for awhile without playing it. Guess he did the math in his head without risking a penny.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Sep 2, 2011
  15. jstrike

    jstrike Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer & Designer
    Location:
    Europe
    I one time saw a guy pay his rent by taking the half he had to Vegas, betting it on one spin and winning. But the odds were against him. He had the good sense to walk away. You want to live your life hoping to get lucky on something you got a 47% chance of scraping by on? You got debt -- everybody's dealt with it. Doubling down on it is the wrong answer. You can't win when you walk into a casino hoping for your life to change. The only time you ever win is when you got enough to not care about the money you lose, and you get lucky, and walk away while you're up. You go in thinking this'll make a difference, you're dead on arrival. Man, you should know this. Your ability to win goes hand in hand with your state of mind. Here's what I mean.

    Technically speaking, your roulette system is gonna cause you to lose just as much as any other bet you'd make. It might, MAYBE, be able to consolidate your losses into losing sessions, and your wins into winning sessions, but over time you're gonna lose the same average amount per bet. You can't beat the house. And yet... I've seen people have amazing runs of luck. And I'm not sure what to attribute it to... sometimes it just seems almost impossible that someone could be that lucky. I know, mathematically that means some other player's going to be incredibly unlucky, and I've seen that too. But what makes one guy be lucky and another unlucky? I don't think the mathematicians or the philosophers have really answered that question yet. If there's a hope of you getting more out of a casino than you put into it, it lies in the undiscovered territory concerning why some guys are luckier than others.

    If there's any kinda science to that, I'd submit it has something to do with need, and something to do with self-control. And either one without the other is worthless. If you need your rent and somehow get lucky enough to win it in Vegas, and then try to double up, forget it: You just blew the cardinal rule. The only thing about your system that makes some kind of sense is that you have a daily win cutoff. That's smart. That could work for you, if luck's on your side and you hold to that cutoff amount religiously.

    Even so, there's a 99% chance over time you're gonna go down trying to make money this way. And the more it matters to you, the more it's gonna hurt. So just work your way outta the hole, stay away from the casinos, and focus on producing something good for humanity that pays the bills and makes up for the mistake. Before you bet another dime, go to the bookstore and buy "The Gambler" by Dostoevsky. It's all about Roulette, and it'll change your life. We've all made mistakes, and we've all been in that pit. Maybe those of us who run casinos more than players. How you get out of it is what shows what you're worth as a man and what kinda character you got as a human being.
     
    8 people like this.
  16. Sep 4, 2011
  17. Westland Bowl

    Westland Bowl Tin Foil Hat Club Member CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    not applicable
    Location:
    America
    I play betting systems too. And I have won much money from them (see the Heroes Casino thread). However, I have only won ONCE since November 2009 after winning over $60,000 that year. I can tell you that control of the cards is hidden and in the online casino's hand. Do you really trust that the online casino will allow truly random games if you are a consistent winner?

    It is ok and advisable to have a goal. But not every session is going to be profitable. You just need to have more winning sessions than losing sessions and the average winning sessions be higher than the average losing sessions.

    Doesn't it seem like the online casino "knows" you are trying to reach a certain plateau? I can't count the number of times when I came close to reaching my goal, "just $20 more to $2000", only to lose it all. One time I lost $1595 trying to reach that last $5 to reach my $1,600 goal. To me, $3090 is damn well close enough. Take it off the table and don't sweat that last $30.

    Believer me, the probability is not less at all. In a brick and mortar casino, you will once in a while come to a 7 hand losing streak but it happens all the time in an online casino. The more often you win with a system in an online casino, the more likely it "figures out" your system and it will strategically place losing double-downs, losing splits and incredible dealer 5-, 6- or 7-card 21's against your 20.

    If you are going to insist on playing blackjack or any other casino games, I would suggest playing in a land casino. I win consistently there and don't come across the ridiculous obvious sh*t that online casinos have been pulling for nearly two years now. But some same sh*t is being pulled in land casinos now....stay away from the i-tables by Shufflemaster. If you see a Continuous Shuffle Machine (CSM) with two cords coming out of it, one a power cord and the other is a data cord, then likely it is tracking how you play with the help of RFID chip in the casino chips and cards and RFID readers beneath the table under each player's spot. Just play blackjack at tables that have the stand alone shoe.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Sep 4, 2011
  19. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    I beg to differ. SYSTEMS DO WORK, in favour of the casinos though.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Sep 4, 2011
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The ONLY way to make money from gambling is to look for opportunities where casinos have got the maths wrong. This almost always happens in the design of promotions, most usually bonuses. The drawback is that as soon as the casino realises what has happened, they will shut it down. This means these opportunities do not last long enough for a CONSISTENT income to be made. There is also variance, and you CANNOT guarantee to reach a specific target in a specidic timeframe, even if the maths is in your favour. Even when you DO find such an opportunity, the casino may look for ways not to pay the winnings, yet they would have been happy to have you lose with the same strategy.

    Players that win consistently get the infamous "bonus ban", thus even though the opportunity remains, they are banned from taking it.

    There are sometimes occasions where a casino has a game with an RTP slightly above 100%. These games usually have a complex "perfect strategy" for reaching that RTP, and the gain is very small. Although this works, the hourly rate of income for playing "perfect strategy" can be much less than the minimum wage for a "proper job". Use of bots to play the games will usually be against the rules, and will result in the winnings being confiscated.

    Lastly, there is the software bug. These make a game +EV by mistake, and the casino will only notice once they have enough data. This tends to happen once the bug has been reported on advantage player fora, and "everybody" starts to target it. Those players exploiting it in these later stages tend to get their winnings voided under the term "malfunction voids play", and may also be banned for trying to exploit the bug.

    A select few players CAN make a consistent (although not guaranteed) income by REALLY knowing what they are doing, and having iron discipline when carrying it out.

    An example here is Kasino King, who has made consistent profit by playing loyalty bonuses in such a way as to stay " under the radar" at many casinos. Even he has found this becomes harder each year as casinos learn how their offers can be exploited, and adjust them accordingly.

    If any Roulette or Blackjack system works without using any promotions, it is an indication that the game has a "bug", or has deliberately been "rigged" by the casino. A rigged game can be beaten, as was seen by the UK Fruit Machine industry:D - a random game with an RTP less than 100% CANNOT be beaten over the long term.

    In B & M casinos, Blackjack can be beaten by "card counting", and Roulette can be beaten if there is bias in the wheel, or the croupier goes into "autopilot" and starts introducing a level of predictabilty into the game. Casino managers are aware of all this, and take steps to prevent players benefiting over the long term.
     
    4 people like this.
  22. Sep 4, 2011
  23. jstrike

    jstrike Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Programmer & Designer
    Location:
    Europe
    WB, all due respect, I gotta disagree on some of this stuff.

    I don't know what casinos you're playing, but do you think there's some kinda mass conspiracy since 11/09? Even if your casino figured out your strategy (I'm gonna get to that in a sec) why wouldn't it keep working at other casinos under a different handle? You know as well as anybody that systems just consolidate your wins and consolidate your losses into bigger chunks. So if you had a $60k year, it's pretty reasonable to expect a -$62k year the next year.

    This might be true, but only where casinos don't have multiplayer tables with published card shoes.

    It seems like that to me in a real casino too. It seems like it, because as a player, you're setting the goalposts and you're moving them when you feel like it. It's a psychological side-effect of gambling.

    Online, you're dealt a lot more hands in an hour. And you have easier access to the records. I'm not saying here that no online casinos cheat, but what I'm saying is you're more likely to get a run of bad luck in any given hour online than you are in a brick casino, because you're playing more hands.

    Okay, this is what I really gotta disagree with. I've programmed AI's and all kinds of complicated mathematical models. I also own a casino. As a casino owner, I'll tell ya there's no point to doing what you're suggesting. Your code's getting audited, and look -- some people have to win big, or nobody would play, right? And beyond that, you've already got a mathematical edge, regardless of what system the player uses. A guy like you who made $60k last year and thinks it's because of a system rather than luck is a perfect customer because we know we're gonna get it back as long as we keep you playing. It's a mathematical fact.

    Add onto that the complexity of coding a system for "reading" player behavior like what you're talking about. Humans are smarter than machines. A lot like coding a poker bot, you're dealing with a field of infinite possibilities, and picking out certain behavior patters would be incredibly difficult. Let's say you always double on 12 except if a dealer shows a 3 or 4, or if the player on third base doesn't have to hit, or if the count is <-4. (And let's assume it's a 6- or 8-deck shoe where you can count). You'd have to play, at a guess, about 50,000 hands at a casino for the system to understand how those variables got together. Even then, software to tease those things out would cost at least half a million to write. And it's definitely not being marketed by the big software manufacturers, so that cost would be on a single operator. And if that operator's being audited, then certainly their RTP and their hand distributions would show some pretty weird stuff if their biggest players suddenly couldn't win anymore.

    I'm not saying the software you're talking about is impossible to write, but it's definitely not worth it. And the data cable on Shufflemaster tables is to track hands, not to influence them. If you're seriously concerned about that, call the Nevada Gaming Control Board and ask -- there are some really intelligent, really well educated technical experts there who check this stuff all day, every day, all over Vegas. I'm pretty sure they'd back up what I'm saying. You're basically spinning a string of losses into a conspiracy theory. The human mind wants to see patterns, even in randomness, and gamblers have that instinct in spades, no pun intended. But it just ain't true. Even if it was possible, it'd be economically unfeasible, and blatantly obvious to auditors, players, and forums like these if it really happened.
     
    7 people like this.
  24. Sep 5, 2011
  25. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    IMO it is irresponsible to encourage this person to continue gambling, in addition to telling him that systems "work".

    Whilst it isn't our responsibility to counsel problem gamblers, this member is clearly at a crossroads and the last thing he needs is "advice" about how to continue.

    @jstrike....thankyou for exposing just how much of that post was deluded gamblerspeak.
     
    4 people like this.
  26. Sep 5, 2011
  27. jod5413

    jod5413 Is That Better?

    Occupation:
    having a good time doing anything
    Location:
    somewhere on the planet
    Whenever I needed extra money to pay down debt or for something special, like a new TV, I got a second job. THAT is the only way to guarantee earning extra money (unless you sell something, like the TV). To think that gambling could ever be a done deal for earning cash is self delusion, IMO.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Sep 5, 2011
  29. WB_Carter

    WB_Carter Banned User

    Occupation:
    PI
    Location:
    New York
    @Jstrike and Nifty: West Bowl won $65,000 last year. Why in the world would he listen or take advice from either one of you? If anything one should be taking notes from him

    Jstrike you said "You know as well as anybody that systems just consolidate your wins and consolidate your losses into bigger chunks. So if you had a $60k year, it's pretty reasonable to expect a -$62k year the next year."

    So If I were a $20 a week lottery player. The first week I pay $20 and win $5000. The next 8 weeks I play and lost $160. Week 10 I play and win $100,000. By the end of the year. I've won $95,000+. So based on your statement. The next year I should expect to loss $97,000 play the lottery? WOW!

    I rather listen to West Bowl!!!!
     
  30. Sep 5, 2011
  31. jod5413

    jod5413 Is That Better?

    Occupation:
    having a good time doing anything
    Location:
    somewhere on the planet
    WB_Carter, you are certainly allowed to believe anyone here that you want to. However, I would love to see Westland's financials. I wonder how much he spent to end the year with $65,000. He doesn't say how much he lost, and that would certainly be relevant to what he says he won. There are successful BJ players all over the place. Most of them have sponsers that help cover the cost to get to the win, if that makes sense to you.

    In any case, it is a recipe for disaster for anyone to think they can support themselves or be able to win enough to get out of debt. Especially if the debt was created by gambling.

    JMO
     
    1 person likes this.
  32. Sep 5, 2011
  33. Pulver

    Pulver Senior Member PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Tellus
    WB_Carter: Please read: You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I have a really simple answer to why systems don't work though. If there was a way to make gold out of sand, gold would be worthless. If there was a way to consistently beat online casinos using a system, the casinos would be bankrupt long time ago.

    Seriously, if there was a way to beat online roulette, don't you think everyone would be doing it?

    Not trying to sound like a dick, but I hate to see people throwing away their money on "systems".
     
    4 people like this.
  34. Sep 5, 2011
  35. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    :lolup: :lolup:

    It's times like this I wish I owned a casino....I would make you a VIP instantly and just sit back and count the cash as you pitted systems against my house edge.

    WB won $65k from good luck and nothing more and could well have spent $1m to get it.....but well never know as these guys never tell the real story.

    The day I take lessons from WB or you will be the day that I have dinner and go clubbing with daveboz.
     
  36. Sep 5, 2011
  37. jod5413

    jod5413 Is That Better?

    Occupation:
    having a good time doing anything
    Location:
    somewhere on the planet
    I beg to differ. I think going clubbing with Dave would be hysterical. I imagine he gets really funny when he gets drunk. It'd be worth the cost of the drinks to get him going!! :p
     
    1 person likes this.
  38. Sep 5, 2011
  39. mattsgame

    mattsgame Ueber Meister CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    Web Master
    Location:
    Clown Town

    WB also said this "However, I have only won ONCE since November 2009 after winning over $60,000 that year." Who know's what he spent to get there and if he has blown it all since winning but that is his business and no one else's.


    And about your lottery theory, That is based on luck (and a bloody lot of luck) and this does in fact happen and can happen. BUT.. This is pure luck and not a system which is what everyone is trying to say about black jack and roulette.

    If someone plays a system and luck falls there way good luck to them and they will believe in it, but eventually they will find it was foolish to think it is why they had won in the first place.

    If there was a system that worked every single time whether it be the lotto, black jack, roulette etc then I would have been retied at 20.
     

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