My confession, and where I am now...

[sticks1977]

I have not told many people this - and would like to share my experience and possibly get some replies to what course I should be going down in the next few weeks...

Lately I have been using gambling as an alternative source of income to try and pay down on some debts that I have slowly managed to abuse over the last few years. I have been gambling online for roughly 12 months and have had some rotten moments of luck. The main problem I have had is resorting to credit cards to fund my balance in the online casino.

I won't exactly advertise or promote the site that I have been playing on - but they have a Live Dealer Roulette table that I often play at.

Just this week I have cashed out $2,500 out of my account to pay off one of my credit cards that I had maxed out due to gambling. The cash out request it still being processed but this is the first time in months that I have actually cashed out the money and have felt good about it... I do not want to really go back to where I was a few weeks ago...

I still have a LONG way to go and I guess registering here and writing up this thread - I want some advice and ideas from the people out there that may have had a similar experience to me, or can at least guide me in the right direction.

I mainly play a system and set myself goals at the start of every month. My current goal is to win $180 per day and spread this over 3 sessions of play in the morning, afternoon and evening (attempt to win $60 per session). In the past I have been able to stick to a strict regimented way of playing and not letting greed and impatience take over. Unfortunately though it has been easier to say than do and have sometimes found myself in a heap of trouble.

So far my current casino balance is sitting at $3,090. I wanted to get to $3,120 this morning but the way I was playing and risking a lot of money (at one stage was $200 behind where I needed to be). I find especially lately that is has been very hard and difficult to win on Roulette even placing small bets.

My main method of betting in the past has been to cover 2 of the 3 dozens (eg. 13 - 36) on a European Wheel, the initial bet amount per dozen being what I want to win - $10 on each dozen to win $30, a profit of $10. If the first spin was a loss I would then triple my bet on the next spin - $30 per dozen. This method worked well when I happened to fall into a win but turned dangerous when I happened to always not be betting on the dozen that came up!

Recently I have been using a 'Labouchere' method of betting and in the short term it has worked well. But it has it's own down-falls when I run into a loss streak of 5-10 spins when betting on an even result (eg. 1-18, Even, Red, Black, Odd, 19-36). Keeping in mind I am only wanting to win a total of $60 over a session of play (which often lasts for 15-30 minutes).

So - after everything I have mentioned above - I would welcome feedback and any advice that I should be looking into. I have wondered whether to change my focus to Blackjack as the probability of losing 5-7 hands in a row on Blackjack may be less?

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to any replies and also contributing myself to this forum in the coming weeks and months. It may help me even keep my feet on the ground and realise what I have done in the past but to also focus on the future!

Regards, Shaun (sticks1977)

 

[takethemoney]

You are not going to like my feedback, but here it is: close every damn credit card account and casino account that you have. Work out a repayment plan with your creditors and understand that your salvation is not going to come from gambling in any form. Find a new hobby, or treat gambling as a hobby and play for fun. Chasing losses and hoping to recoup them, with the dream of getting back on top is the delusion of pretty much every gambler who has had problems or has gone too far. The casinos recognize this and that psychological aspect is built right into the games. It's a trap. Run Jim!!! (Shaun)

 

[4 of a kind]

I’m one of the old men here and have been gambling most of my adult life. My first emotion was to respond to your post like a father and give you hell for your obvious lack of education when it comes to gambling.

This forum is loaded with many educated gamblers that will give you a good ass whipping for even suggesting any type of system for any gambling game offered by any casino, land or online could possibly work for the long term.

You state you’ve only been gambling online for 12 months with the delusional thoughts of thinking gambling could act as an alternative source of income and in turn help you pay off your debts created over the last few years with your winnings. Since you didn’t specify how you actually put yourself in debt over the years, I could only assume it wasn’t from gambling, since you certainly wouldn’t consider to expect online gambling to give you a different outcome. (I hope)

I see that your only 33 years old, and there is a good chance you like the millions and millions before you that thought the same way only to learn the hard way, that gambling with money you couldn’t afford to give to charity will certainly nail your coffin closed. Considering the fact that your still young means there is plenty of time left for you to get off the ground and brush the dirt off.

You sound like a rookie gambler; yet, smart enough to realize there is a problem. I hope you didn’t come here expecting someone to give you the winning recipe.

My favorite saying is: “Las Vegas wasn't built from paying winners”.

What takethemoney says above, although short and to the point is dead on balls. Take that advice and remember you could always try gambling again for some fun later on in life when your back on your feet and mature enough to gamble with the right expectations.

 

[dominique]

Sticks, I only have one comment:

SYSTEMS DO NOT WORK!

Run fast and run far! Gambling is entertainment, not an income. Never gamble what you cannot afford to lose!

 

[BingoT]

Sticks, I only have one comment:
SYSTEMS DO NOT WORK!!

A great saying from Albert Einstein

"No one can possibly win at roulette unless he steals money from the table while the croupier isn't looking." — Albert Einstein

 

[Pulver]

Worth a read:

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[4 of a kind]

A great saying from Albert Einstein

"No one can possibly win at roulette unless he steals money from the table while the croupier isn't looking." — Albert Einstein

You forgot to mention that he said that after his first and only visit to Vegas, and made that comment just after watching the game for awhile without playing it. Guess he did the math in his head without risking a penny.

 

[jstrike]

I one time saw a guy pay his rent by taking the half he had to Vegas, betting it on one spin and winning. But the odds were against him. He had the good sense to walk away. You want to live your life hoping to get lucky on something you got a 47% chance of scraping by on? You got debt -- everybody's dealt with it. Doubling down on it is the wrong answer. You can't win when you walk into a casino hoping for your life to change. The only time you ever win is when you got enough to not care about the money you lose, and you get lucky, and walk away while you're up. You go in thinking this'll make a difference, you're dead on arrival. Man, you should know this. Your ability to win goes hand in hand with your state of mind. Here's what I mean.

Technically speaking, your roulette system is gonna cause you to lose just as much as any other bet you'd make. It might, MAYBE, be able to consolidate your losses into losing sessions, and your wins into winning sessions, but over time you're gonna lose the same average amount per bet. You can't beat the house. And yet... I've seen people have amazing runs of luck. And I'm not sure what to attribute it to... sometimes it just seems almost impossible that someone could be that lucky. I know, mathematically that means some other player's going to be incredibly unlucky, and I've seen that too. But what makes one guy be lucky and another unlucky? I don't think the mathematicians or the philosophers have really answered that question yet. If there's a hope of you getting more out of a casino than you put into it, it lies in the undiscovered territory concerning why some guys are luckier than others.

If there's any kinda science to that, I'd submit it has something to do with need, and something to do with self-control. And either one without the other is worthless. If you need your rent and somehow get lucky enough to win it in Vegas, and then try to double up, forget it: You just blew the cardinal rule. The only thing about your system that makes some kind of sense is that you have a daily win cutoff. That's smart. That could work for you, if luck's on your side and you hold to that cutoff amount religiously.

Even so, there's a 99% chance over time you're gonna go down trying to make money this way. And the more it matters to you, the more it's gonna hurt. So just work your way outta the hole, stay away from the casinos, and focus on producing something good for humanity that pays the bills and makes up for the mistake. Before you bet another dime, go to the bookstore and buy "The Gambler" by Dostoevsky. It's all about Roulette, and it'll change your life. We've all made mistakes, and we've all been in that pit. Maybe those of us who run casinos more than players. How you get out of it is what shows what you're worth as a man and what kinda character you got as a human being.

 

[Westland Bowl]

...........I mainly play a system .....

I play betting systems too. And I have won much money from them (see the Heroes Casino thread). However, I have only won ONCE since November 2009 after winning over $60,000 that year. I can tell you that control of the cards is hidden and in the online casino's hand. Do you really trust that the online casino will allow truly random games if you are a consistent winner?

........My current goal is to win $180 per day and spread this over 3 sessions of play in the morning, afternoon and evening (attempt to win $60 per session).

It is ok and advisable to have a goal. But not every session is going to be profitable. You just need to have more winning sessions than losing sessions and the average winning sessions be higher than the average losing sessions.

......So far my current casino balance is sitting at $3,090. I wanted to get to $3,120 this morning but the way I was playing and risking a lot of money (at one stage was $200 behind where I needed to be). I find especially lately that is has been very hard and difficult to win on Roulette even placing small bets.

Doesn't it seem like the online casino "knows" you are trying to reach a certain plateau? I can't count the number of times when I came close to reaching my goal, "just $20 more to $2000", only to lose it all. One time I lost $1595 trying to reach that last $5 to reach my $1,600 goal. To me, $3090 is damn well close enough. Take it off the table and don't sweat that last $30.

.......I have wondered whether to change my focus to Blackjack as the probability of losing 5-7 hands in a row on Blackjack may be less?

Believer me, the probability is not less at all. In a brick and mortar casino, you will once in a while come to a 7 hand losing streak but it happens all the time in an online casino. The more often you win with a system in an online casino, the more likely it "figures out" your system and it will strategically place losing double-downs, losing splits and incredible dealer 5-, 6- or 7-card 21's against your 20.

If you are going to insist on playing blackjack or any other casino games, I would suggest playing in a land casino. I win consistently there and don't come across the ridiculous obvious sh*t that online casinos have been pulling for nearly two years now. But some same sh*t is being pulled in land casinos now....stay away from the i-tables by Shufflemaster. If you see a Continuous Shuffle Machine (CSM) with two cords coming out of it, one a power cord and the other is a data cord, then likely it is tracking how you play with the help of RFID chip in the casino chips and cards and RFID readers beneath the table under each player's spot. Just play blackjack at tables that have the stand alone shoe.

 

[chuchu59]

Sticks, I only have one comment:

SYSTEMS DO NOT WORK!

Run fast and run far! Gambling is entertainment, not an income. Never gamble what you cannot afford to lose!

I beg to differ. SYSTEMS DO WORK, in favour of the casinos though.

 

[vinylweatherman]

The ONLY way to make money from gambling is to look for opportunities where casinos have got the maths wrong. This almost always happens in the design of promotions, most usually bonuses. The drawback is that as soon as the casino realises what has happened, they will shut it down. This means these opportunities do not last long enough for a CONSISTENT income to be made. There is also variance, and you CANNOT guarantee to reach a specific target in a specidic timeframe, even if the maths is in your favour. Even when you DO find such an opportunity, the casino may look for ways not to pay the winnings, yet they would have been happy to have you lose with the same strategy.

Players that win consistently get the infamous "bonus ban", thus even though the opportunity remains, they are banned from taking it.

There are sometimes occasions where a casino has a game with an RTP slightly above 100%. These games usually have a complex "perfect strategy" for reaching that RTP, and the gain is very small. Although this works, the hourly rate of income for playing "perfect strategy" can be much less than the minimum wage for a "proper job". Use of bots to play the games will usually be against the rules, and will result in the winnings being confiscated.

Lastly, there is the software bug. These make a game +EV by mistake, and the casino will only notice once they have enough data. This tends to happen once the bug has been reported on advantage player fora, and "everybody" starts to target it. Those players exploiting it in these later stages tend to get their winnings voided under the term "malfunction voids play", and may also be banned for trying to exploit the bug.

A select few players CAN make a consistent (although not guaranteed) income by REALLY knowing what they are doing, and having iron discipline when carrying it out.

An example here is Kasino King, who has made consistent profit by playing loyalty bonuses in such a way as to stay " under the radar" at many casinos. Even he has found this becomes harder each year as casinos learn how their offers can be exploited, and adjust them accordingly.

If any Roulette or Blackjack system works without using any promotions, it is an indication that the game has a "bug", or has deliberately been "rigged" by the casino. A rigged game can be beaten, as was seen by the UK Fruit Machine industry - a random game with an RTP less than 100% CANNOT be beaten over the long term.

In B & M casinos, Blackjack can be beaten by "card counting", and Roulette can be beaten if there is bias in the wheel, or the croupier goes into "autopilot" and starts introducing a level of predictabilty into the game. Casino managers are aware of all this, and take steps to prevent players benefiting over the long term.

 

[jstrike]

WB, all due respect, I gotta disagree on some of this stuff.

I play betting systems too. And I have won much money from them (see the Heroes Casino thread). However, I have only won ONCE since November 2009 after winning over $60,000 that year.

I don't know what casinos you're playing, but do you think there's some kinda mass conspiracy since 11/09? Even if your casino figured out your strategy (I'm gonna get to that in a sec) why wouldn't it keep working at other casinos under a different handle? You know as well as anybody that systems just consolidate your wins and consolidate your losses into bigger chunks. So if you had a $60k year, it's pretty reasonable to expect a -$62k year the next year.

I can tell you that control of the cards is hidden and in the online casino's hand. Do you really trust that the online casino will allow truly random games if you are a consistent winner?

This might be true, but only where casinos don't have multiplayer tables with published card shoes.

Doesn't it seem like the online casino "knows" you are trying to reach a certain plateau?

It seems like that to me in a real casino too. It seems like it, because as a player, you're setting the goalposts and you're moving them when you feel like it. It's a psychological side-effect of gambling.

In a brick and mortar casino, you will once in a while come to a 7 hand losing streak but it happens all the time in an online casino.

Online, you're dealt a lot more hands in an hour. And you have easier access to the records. I'm not saying here that no online casinos cheat, but what I'm saying is you're more likely to get a run of bad luck in any given hour online than you are in a brick casino, because you're playing more hands.

The more often you win with a system in an online casino, the more likely it "figures out" your system and it will strategically place losing double-downs, losing splits and incredible dealer 5-, 6- or 7-card 21's against your 20.

Okay, this is what I really gotta disagree with. I've programmed AI's and all kinds of complicated mathematical models. I also own a casino. As a casino owner, I'll tell ya there's no point to doing what you're suggesting. Your code's getting audited, and look -- some people have to win big, or nobody would play, right? And beyond that, you've already got a mathematical edge, regardless of what system the player uses. A guy like you who made $60k last year and thinks it's because of a system rather than luck is a perfect customer because we know we're gonna get it back as long as we keep you playing. It's a mathematical fact.

Add onto that the complexity of coding a system for "reading" player behavior like what you're talking about. Humans are smarter than machines. A lot like coding a poker bot, you're dealing with a field of infinite possibilities, and picking out certain behavior patters would be incredibly difficult. Let's say you always double on 12 except if a dealer shows a 3 or 4, or if the player on third base doesn't have to hit, or if the count is <-4. (And let's assume it's a 6- or 8-deck shoe where you can count). You'd have to play, at a guess, about 50,000 hands at a casino for the system to understand how those variables got together. Even then, software to tease those things out would cost at least half a million to write. And it's definitely not being marketed by the big software manufacturers, so that cost would be on a single operator. And if that operator's being audited, then certainly their RTP and their hand distributions would show some pretty weird stuff if their biggest players suddenly couldn't win anymore.

I'm not saying the software you're talking about is impossible to write, but it's definitely not worth it. And the data cable on Shufflemaster tables is to track hands, not to influence them. If you're seriously concerned about that, call the Nevada Gaming Control Board and ask -- there are some really intelligent, really well educated technical experts there who check this stuff all day, every day, all over Vegas. I'm pretty sure they'd back up what I'm saying. You're basically spinning a string of losses into a conspiracy theory. The human mind wants to see patterns, even in randomness, and gamblers have that instinct in spades, no pun intended. But it just ain't true. Even if it was possible, it'd be economically unfeasible, and blatantly obvious to auditors, players, and forums like these if it really happened.

 

[Nifty29]

I play betting systems too. And I have won much money from them (see the Heroes Casino thread). However, I have only won ONCE since November 2009 after winning over $60,000 that year. I can tell you that control of the cards is hidden and in the online casino's hand. Do you really trust that the online casino will allow truly random games if you are a consistent winner?



It is ok and advisable to have a goal. But not every session is going to be profitable. You just need to have more winning sessions than losing sessions and the average winning sessions be higher than the average losing sessions.



Doesn't it seem like the online casino "knows" you are trying to reach a certain plateau? I can't count the number of times when I came close to reaching my goal, "just $20 more to $2000", only to lose it all. One time I lost $1595 trying to reach that last $5 to reach my $1,600 goal. To me, $3090 is damn well close enough. Take it off the table and don't sweat that last $30.



Believer me, the probability is not less at all. In a brick and mortar casino, you will once in a while come to a 7 hand losing streak but it happens all the time in an online casino. The more often you win with a system in an online casino, the more likely it "figures out" your system and it will strategically place losing double-downs, losing splits and incredible dealer 5-, 6- or 7-card 21's against your 20.

If you are going to insist on playing blackjack or any other casino games, I would suggest playing in a land casino. I win consistently there and don't come across the ridiculous obvious sh*t that online casinos have been pulling for nearly two years now. But some same sh*t is being pulled in land casinos now....stay away from the i-tables by Shufflemaster. If you see a Continuous Shuffle Machine (CSM) with two cords coming out of it, one a power cord and the other is a data cord, then likely it is tracking how you play with the help of RFID chip in the casino chips and cards and RFID readers beneath the table under each player's spot. Just play blackjack at tables that have the stand alone shoe.

IMO it is irresponsible to encourage this person to continue gambling, in addition to telling him that systems "work".

Whilst it isn't our responsibility to counsel problem gamblers, this member is clearly at a crossroads and the last thing he needs is "advice" about how to continue.

@jstrike....thankyou for exposing just how much of that post was deluded gamblerspeak.

 

[jod5413]

Whenever I needed extra money to pay down debt or for something special, like a new TV, I got a second job. THAT is the only way to guarantee earning extra money (unless you sell something, like the TV). To think that gambling could ever be a done deal for earning cash is self delusion, IMO.

 

[WB_Carter]

@Jstrike and Nifty: West Bowl won $65,000 last year. Why in the world would he listen or take advice from either one of you? If anything one should be taking notes from him

Jstrike you said "You know as well as anybody that systems just consolidate your wins and consolidate your losses into bigger chunks. So if you had a $60k year, it's pretty reasonable to expect a -$62k year the next year."

So If I were a $20 a week lottery player. The first week I pay $20 and win $5000. The next 8 weeks I play and lost $160. Week 10 I play and win $100,000. By the end of the year. I've won $95,000+. So based on your statement. The next year I should expect to loss $97,000 play the lottery? WOW!

I rather listen to West Bowl!!!!

 

[jod5413]

WB_Carter, you are certainly allowed to believe anyone here that you want to. However, I would love to see Westland's financials. I wonder how much he spent to end the year with $65,000. He doesn't say how much he lost, and that would certainly be relevant to what he says he won. There are successful BJ players all over the place. Most of them have sponsers that help cover the cost to get to the win, if that makes sense to you.

In any case, it is a recipe for disaster for anyone to think they can support themselves or be able to win enough to get out of debt. Especially if the debt was created by gambling.

JMO

 

[Pulver]

WB_Carter: Please read:

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I have a really simple answer to why systems don't work though. If there was a way to make gold out of sand, gold would be worthless. If there was a way to consistently beat online casinos using a system, the casinos would be bankrupt long time ago.

Seriously, if there was a way to beat online roulette, don't you think everyone would be doing it?

Not trying to sound like a dick, but I hate to see people throwing away their money on "systems".

 

[Nifty29]

@Jstrike and Nifty: West Bowl won $65,000 last year. Why in the world would he listen or take advice from either one of you? If anything one should be taking notes from him

Jstrike you said "You know as well as anybody that systems just consolidate your wins and consolidate your losses into bigger chunks. So if you had a $60k year, it's pretty reasonable to expect a -$62k year the next year."

So If I were a $20 a week lottery player. The first week I pay $20 and win $5000. The next 8 weeks I play and lost $160. Week 10 I play and win $100,000. By the end of the year. I've won $95,000+. So based on your statement. The next year I should expect to loss $97,000 play the lottery? WOW!

I rather listen to West Bowl!!!!

It's times like this I wish I owned a casino....I would make you a VIP instantly and just sit back and count the cash as you pitted systems against my house edge.

WB won $65k from good luck and nothing more and could well have spent $1m to get it.....but well never know as these guys never tell the real story.

The day I take lessons from WB or you will be the day that I have dinner and go clubbing with daveboz.

 

[jod5413]

The day I take lessons from WB or you will be the day that I have dinner and go clubbing with daveboz.

I beg to differ. I think going clubbing with Dave would be hysterical. I imagine he gets really funny when he gets drunk. It'd be worth the cost of the drinks to get him going!!

 

[mattsgame]

@Jstrike and Nifty: West Bowl won $65,000 last year. Why in the world would he listen or take advice from either one of you? If anything one should be taking notes from him

Jstrike you said "You know as well as anybody that systems just consolidate your wins and consolidate your losses into bigger chunks. So if you had a $60k year, it's pretty reasonable to expect a -$62k year the next year."

So If I were a $20 a week lottery player. The first week I pay $20 and win $5000. The next 8 weeks I play and lost $160. Week 10 I play and win $100,000. By the end of the year. I've won $95,000+. So based on your statement. The next year I should expect to loss $97,000 play the lottery? WOW!

I rather listen to West Bowl!!!!

WB also said this "However, I have only won ONCE since November 2009 after winning over $60,000 that year." Who know's what he spent to get there and if he has blown it all since winning but that is his business and no one else's.


And about your lottery theory, That is based on luck (and a bloody lot of luck) and this does in fact happen and can happen. BUT.. This is pure luck and not a system which is what everyone is trying to say about black jack and roulette.

If someone plays a system and luck falls there way good luck to them and they will believe in it, but eventually they will find it was foolish to think it is why they had won in the first place.

If there was a system that worked every single time whether it be the lotto, black jack, roulette etc then I would have been retied at 20.

 

[Jeffrey Audette]

INTERESTING

I have not told many people this - and would like to share my experience and possibly get some replies to what course I should be going down in the next few weeks...

Lately I have been using gambling as an alternative source of income to try and pay down on some debts that I have slowly managed to abuse over the last few years. I have been gambling online for roughly 12 months and have had some rotten moments of luck. The main problem I have had is resorting to credit cards to fund my balance in the online casino.

I won't exactly advertise or promote the site that I have been playing on - but they have a Live Dealer Roulette table that I often play at.

Just this week I have cashed out $2,500 out of my account to pay off one of my credit cards that I had maxed out due to gambling. The cash out request it still being processed but this is the first time in months that I have actually cashed out the money and have felt good about it... I do not want to really go back to where I was a few weeks ago...

I still have a LONG way to go and I guess registering here and writing up this thread - I want some advice and ideas from the people out there that may have had a similar experience to me, or can at least guide me in the right direction.

I mainly play a system and set myself goals at the start of every month. My current goal is to win $180 per day and spread this over 3 sessions of play in the morning, afternoon and evening (attempt to win $60 per session). In the past I have been able to stick to a strict regimented way of playing and not letting greed and impatience take over. Unfortunately though it has been easier to say than do and have sometimes found myself in a heap of trouble.

So far my current casino balance is sitting at $3,090. I wanted to get to $3,120 this morning but the way I was playing and risking a lot of money (at one stage was $200 behind where I needed to be). I find especially lately that is has been very hard and difficult to win on Roulette even placing small bets.

My main method of betting in the past has been to cover 2 of the 3 dozens (eg. 13 - 36) on a European Wheel, the initial bet amount per dozen being what I want to win - $10 on each dozen to win $30, a profit of $10. If the first spin was a loss I would then triple my bet on the next spin - $30 per dozen. This method worked well when I happened to fall into a win but turned dangerous when I happened to always not be betting on the dozen that came up!

Recently I have been using a 'Labouchere' method of betting and in the short term it has worked well. But it has it's own down-falls when I run into a loss streak of 5-10 spins when betting on an even result (eg. 1-18, Even, Red, Black, Odd, 19-36). Keeping in mind I am only wanting to win a total of $60 over a session of play (which often lasts for 15-30 minutes).

So - after everything I have mentioned above - I would welcome feedback and any advice that I should be looking into. I have wondered whether to change my focus to Blackjack as the probability of losing 5-7 hands in a row on Blackjack may be less?

Thanks for reading, and I look forward to any replies and also contributing myself to this forum in the coming weeks and months. It may help me even keep my feet on the ground and realise what I have done in the past but to also focus on the future!

Regards, Shaun (sticks1977)

I have recently decided to do the same thing. I am 3000 in debt to my credit cards and my employer has not given me a raise in 10 years . They have let many people go and don't allow any overtime. 2 years ago they cut my pay by 5 percent. With football season starting up again I have started gambling again. I lost my first 2 bets and now I am down 200 bucks. I am waiting to get paid so I can either play blackjack or bet on football.
When I play blackjack every hand I win I increase my bet by 5 dollars and decrease my bet by 5 if I lose. This can be very profitable if I hit a winning streak. However if I am up to a bet of 40 dollars or more it can be very costly if you double down or split and lose. My problem is when I play blackjack I always walk away from the table too late. I need to stop after losing half of my money or losing 4 or 5 hands in a row

 

[Nifty29]

I have recently decided to do the same thing. I am 3000 in debt to my credit cards and my employer has not given me a raise in 10 years . They have let many people go and don't allow any overtime. 2 years ago they cut my pay by 5 percent. With football season starting up again I have started gambling again. I lost my first 2 bets and now I am down 200 bucks. I am waiting to get paid so I can either play blackjack or bet on football.
When I play blackjack every hand I win I increase my bet by 5 dollars and decrease my bet by 5 if I lose. This can be very profitable if I hit a winning streak. However if I am up to a bet of 40 dollars or more it can be very costly if you double down or split and lose. My problem is when I play blackjack I always walk away from the table too late. I need to stop after losing half of my money or losing 4 or 5 hands in a row

Don't do it man!!

Draw upon the experience of millions of gamblers with the same misguided thought process and think about where they all end up - with nothing.

 

[chuchu59]

I agree. Dont do it buddy. Just be thankful you still got a job in a country with more than a 9% unemployment rate. The credit debts arent so steep so embark on a repayment plan and once they are fully paid you can start low-rolling on BJ again.

 

[Mousey]

I'm only going to pop in here and pop off just this once... because threads like this both break my heart and anger me to the point of sputtering at the same time.

It amazes me that people will search through newspapers for a deal on new hedge trimmer (save $10!) or toothpaste (2 for $4!!)... or will wait to buy that monitor they need because they will put them on sale later, but won't get online and research* and read with comprehension about gambling and odds and what's a good game and what's a bad game and how to lower the house edge (by only .005% maybe), before blowing their hard earned money at a casino.

They won't learn basic strategy for things like BJ and VP, won't study the mathmatics and game play of table poker, will blow hundreds/thousands of dollars on slots and roulette and scratchers and lotteries... and expect to make money.

We are in extremely dangerous waters here folks where fairy tales rule.

Wake up call! You want to make money in the gambling business? Open your own casino, but DON'T GAMBLE.



*research -- diligent and systematic inquiry or investigation into a subject in order to discover or revise facts, theories, applications, etc.: recent research in medicine.


Bryan has links for some good informational books in the meistermall. Click on either link (depending on your location), look to the left for Casinomeister Books. There's a lot of good books in there.

Old URL

Old URL

Don't have money to buy books? Find titles/authors you want to read and visit your local library. Here in the USA, most libraries, even if they don't have what you want, can borrow it from another library long enough for you to read it.

 

[Westland Bowl]

WB, all due respect, I gotta disagree on some of this stuff.

With this statement, the first thing I noticed is that you are an I-Gaming Industry Representative.

I don't know what casinos you're playing, but do you think there's some kinda mass conspiracy since 11/09?

Yes. The online casinos are not above doing this sort of thing as there is a trust issue with hidden cards and out-of-reach justice process for suing online casinos for lack of visibility of how the cards are selected. The casinos I've played at are both accredited and sportsbook casinos.

Even if your casino figured out your strategy (I'm gonna get to that in a sec) why wouldn't it keep working at other casinos under a different handle?

There really isn't that much variety of different online casinos....just RTG, Vegas Tech, DGS....if one RTG casino "knows" my strategy then ALL RTG casinos do. Same for others.

You know as well as anybody that systems just consolidate your wins and consolidate your losses into bigger chunks. So if you had a $60k year, it's pretty reasonable to expect a -$62k year the next year.

Hell, no. I would NOT give back that much! I have gave back about $8,000 of it. I refuse to give back anymore. So I've quit online casino gambling but use many no deposit offers.

This might be true, but only where casinos don't have multiplayer tables with published card shoes.

Huh? What are "published card shoes" ???

Online, you're dealt a lot more hands in an hour. And you have easier access to the records. I'm not saying here that no online casinos cheat, but what I'm saying is you're more likely to get a run of bad luck in any given hour online than you are in a brick casino, because you're playing more hands.

In a recent brick-and-mortar casino session, I played over 10 hours of blackjack of roughly 650 total hands. I came into two long losing streaks...a 7-hand losing streak and a 9-hand losing streak. With a recent online sportsbook casino in a total of 515 hands, I recorded 12 losing streaks of 7 or over. My longest winning streaks consisted of 6 hands- twice.

Okay, this is what I really gotta disagree with. I've programmed AI's and all kinds of complicated mathematical models. I also own a casino.

You are a casino owner? How is this going to help your case?

As a casino owner, I'll tell ya there's no point to doing what you're suggesting. Your code's getting audited...

Online casinos are audited by playing strict basic strategy using flat betting. There is no auditing of online casinos with using a betting strategy and determining if the higher bets are of the same 43% win rate as are the minimum bets. Also, if the bet is 20% or higher of the remaining balance of the account, how often do those bets win? Since Nov 2009, I've noticed a race to zero out my account as fast as possible while maintaining some semblance of "random" play.

, and look -- some people have to win big, or nobody would play, right?

Those who have been shown to win consistently won't be chosen to win big. It's just like consistent losers are given the biggest bonuses.

And beyond that, you've already got a mathematical edge, regardless of what system the player uses. A guy like you who made $60k last year and thinks it's because of a system rather than luck is a perfect customer because we know we're gonna get it back as long as we keep you playing. It's a mathematical fact.

My experience is that I DON'T get bonuses or offers to come back because of my consistent winning. It gotten to a point where they just refuse to let true random play in my case.

Add onto that the complexity of coding a system for "reading" player behavior like what you're talking about. Humans are smarter than machines. A lot like coding a poker bot, you're dealing with a field of infinite possibilities, and picking out certain behavior patters would be incredibly difficult. Let's say you always double on 12 except if a dealer shows a 3 or 4, or if the player on third base doesn't have to hit, or if the count is <-4. (And let's assume it's a 6- or 8-deck shoe where you can count). You'd have to play, at a guess, about 50,000 hands at a casino for the system to understand how those variables got together. Even then, software to tease those things out would cost at least half a million to write. And it's definitely not being marketed by the big software manufacturers, so that cost would be on a single operator. And if that operator's being audited, then certainly their RTP and their hand distributions would show some pretty weird stuff if their biggest players suddenly couldn't win anymore.

Online casino software don't need to reinvent the wheel with each player to determine what strategy each player is using. It can do simple analysis to compare a player's style against the database and once it determines what strategy I'm using, then do counter-measures. If not that, then simply make the player lose, say, 90% of his bigger bets when the bets are 20% or more of his balance.

I'm not saying the software you're talking about is impossible to write, but it's definitely not worth it. And the data cable on Shufflemaster tables is to track hands, not t[o influence them.

There should be NO reason to "track" hands on CSMs as they are on regular simple shoe games.

If you're seriously concerned about that, call the Nevada Gaming Control Board and ask -- there are some really intelligent, really well educated technical experts there who check this stuff all day, every day, all over Vegas. I'm pretty sure they'd back up what I'm saying. You're basically spinning a string of losses into a conspiracy theory. The human mind wants to see patterns, even in randomness, and gamblers have that instinct in spades, no pun intended. But it just ain't true. Even if it was possible, it'd be economically unfeasible, and blatantly obvious to auditors, players, and forums like these if it really happened.

let me say this... I WILL lose more often on my $50 bet when my balance is only say, $200, than if my balance is $2,000 in an online casino. I have found the same thing happening at the last time I played the Shufflemaster I-table in a real casino. Maybe I need to buy in for a bigger amount.

IMO it is irresponsible to encourage this person to continue gambling, in addition to telling him that systems "work". Whilst it isn't our responsibility to counsel problem gamblers, this member is clearly at a crossroads and the last thing he needs is "advice" about how to continue.

I wasn't trying to encourage the guy to continue gambling. He already has made up his mind that he will continue. I was trying to discourage him from continuing with ONLINE casinos, especially with playing blackjack online. If he were to continue gambling, then go to a real casino with a real shoe, not one with a CSM with a data cord attached to it.

@jstrike....thankyou for exposing just how much of that post was deluded gamblerspeak.

WB_Carter, you are certainly allowed to believe anyone here that you want to. However, I would love to see Westland's financials. I wonder how much he spent to end the year with $65,000. He doesn't say how much he lost, and that would certainly be relevant to what he says he won. There are successful BJ players all over the place. Most of them have sponsers that help cover the cost to get to the win, if that makes sense to you.

That year I won, 2009, I lost maybe about $2,000 before winning. The money all went to paying off bills, paying my brother back for my mother's funeral, paying taxes on the gains, paying for various healing modalities for health issues, I invested some of it, and I lost about $8,000 of it after Nov 2009.

In any case, it is a recipe for disaster for anyone to think they can support themselves or be able to win enough to get out of debt. Especially if the debt was created by gambling.

JMO

I agree with this. I believe I have the mental game to play blackjack. Most people wouldn't and I wouldn't encourage anyone to start. I've paid my dues before I started winning. And the casinos started to "do" something about that by messing with the randomness.

It's times like this I wish I owned a casino....I would make you a VIP instantly and just sit back and count the cash as you pitted systems against my house edge.

WB won $65k from good luck and nothing more and could well have spent $1m to get it.....but well never know as these guys never tell the real story.

The day I take lessons from WB or you will be the day that I have dinner and go clubbing with daveboz.

No, I didn't spend $1 million to get that $65K. It wasn't like that. I only started with $200 at Heroes Casino.