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Music Hall wagering requirements

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by Flu Shot, May 15, 2005.

    May 15, 2005
  1. Flu Shot

    Flu Shot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    CA
    Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water...

    I thought I had read in a thread here that Music Hall and that group with the bonus accounts had changed their policies. To make a long story short, I played at Music Hall. I made a few deposits, lost the deposits and the bonuses, and today I had one bonus left in my bonus account of $150. I started playing and caught a streak, so even though the wagering is 45 times I kept playing. Maybe that was dumb, but I kept playing because I was on a roll. Anyway, I gave them over $60,000 in action on that $150. Now they are saying that when I transfer the winnings into the real acount I have to wager it 45 times again! I have given them 60,000 in action and they still want more. Are they insane? I thought they had done away with this policy.

    I would have PMed the representative, but I didn't see one in the list here.
     
  2. May 17, 2005
  3. Flu Shot

    Flu Shot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    CA
    I see that Music Hall is listed here as an "accredited casino". Does this seem right to you? Should I pitch a bitch?
     
  4. May 17, 2005
  5. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    I can see a Pitch a Bitch if they're applying retroactive terms to your deposit/bonus, but if that's what the rules were when you deposited, I'd think you're pretty much stuck with them.
     
  6. Jun 3, 2005
  7. Flu Shot

    Flu Shot Dormant account

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    CA
    I have to ask again now that Bryan is back... How is it possible that this is listed as an "accredited" casino?

    You are now chatting with 'Kim'
    Kim: Hello, how may I help you today?
    you: Hi, I would like to withdraw some of the money in my account.
    you: Can you tell me if I have to do any more wagering, and if so exactly how much?
    Kim: May I have your account number or email address please?
    you: This email is not visible to you.
    Kim: One moment please while I check your account details.
    you: thank you
    Kim: You are required to wager a further $127, 713.56 before you will be eligible to withdraw. Please note games of blackjack (other than Vegas Strip Blackjack), poker, roulette and video poker will only count for one third wagering value. Games of baccarat, craps and Vegas Strip Blackjack will not toward your wagering requirements.
    you: how do you come up with that figure?
    Kim: First deposit: 150 x 15 = 2250
    Kim: Second deposit: 400 x 15 = 6000
    Kim: Third deposit: 600 x 15 = 9000
    Kim: Transfer from bonus: 7510 x 15 = 112650
    Kim: Total: 129900
    Kim: Minus your adjusted (for blackjack and power poker) wagering total of 2186.44
    you: I transfered $6700 from my bonus account. 15x6700 is not 127,000
    you: Oh my God, you are adding in all the wagering on money I lost and zeroed my account???
    Kim: Just a moment please and I will check to see when your account was zeroed.
    you: As of yesterday I had zero in my real account. I transfered 6700 to my real account
    Kim: However it appears you still have funds in your bonus account, therefore you are still held by the wagering requirements.
    Kim: In order to have your wagering requirements removed you are required to zero both your real and your bonus account.
    you: Well I certainly did that afer teh 1st and 2nd bonus
    Kim: I can check that and see if we can remove the wagering requirement for the first and second deposit. However you will still have to meet the full wagering requirements for the 3rd deposit bonus and the transfers.
    you: and that is how much?
    you: and what about the 50,000 in wagering I did inside the bonus account? That counts for nothing?
    Kim: That would come to a total of $119,463.56 with your current wagering in your real account.
    Kim: Wagering in your bonus account is counted separately to wagering in your real account.
    you: so it still seems that it should be at most 600 6700 = 7300 x 15
    Kim: Your bonus account was not zeroed inbetween your smaller transfers and your larger transfer, nor after receiving your third deposit bonus.
    you: So even though I have wagered over 60,000 in action, I still need to wager 120,000 more or 360,000 at BJ or Video Poker--and this is all because of a $150 bonus
    you: 400,000 in action over a $150 bonus. Does that seem right to you?
    Kim: If you play only reduced wagering games it will be a total wagering requirement of: $358,390.68 before you will be eligible to withdraw as per the terms and conditions of the bonusing system.
    you: Thank you for clearing that up Kim.
    Kim: You're welcome.
     
  8. Jun 4, 2005
  9. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I fell slightly sorry for you Flu, but this 'bonus account trap' has been mentioned in several previous threads here.
    This totally outrageous wagering requirement should not have been a surprise to you. It is (was?) clearly stated in the T&C's.
    I don't think you're going to find any way of getting out of this - so I just wish you the same luck wagering your 6 grand as you had with your 150 bucks. Hopefully you're heading for a mega payout! :thumbsup:
     
  10. Jun 4, 2005
  11. MrWolf

    MrWolf Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Journalist
    Location:
    London
    As far as I'm concerned having a bonus account separate from your normal account is absolute rubbish. Why are casinos trying to over elaborate things? I don't see 32Red adding their monthly match to a separate account like some other Micros. No they stick it in your real account, simply state the WR, and let you get on with it. Oh, and if you win, they let you cash in, not refer back to their convaluted (and I emphasise the con part) promotional rules which are deliberately designed to make cashing in the promo money a nightmare. Personally I steer well clear of casinos who laughably offer a 'bonus' account.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2005
  12. Jun 4, 2005
  13. mitch

    mitch Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Secret
    Location:
    UK
    With you here Wolf. I never have and never will play at any casino with these stupid b......s accounts.

    They penalise you if you are lucky enough to win and being an MG casino will probably melt your CPU before you can finish the ludicrous WR.

    Mitch
     
  14. Jun 4, 2005
  15. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    This is clearly a job for autoplay. Set it to play Atlantic City BJ at 50c/hand at maximum speed, it should finish in about 3 weeks. :)
     
  16. Jun 4, 2005
  17. jpsartre

    jpsartre Dormant account

    Location:
    Denmark
    I agree that using a bonus account seems overly complicated but the rules are quite clearly stated on their website. Maybe you don't like them been but then you shouldn't play at the casino.
     
  18. Jun 4, 2005
  19. nafanny29

    nafanny29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    financail adviser
    Location:
    London, England
    Wuth the CPU running at 100pc your gonna need a wind tunnel not a cooling fan for your pc though :lolup:
     
  20. Jun 6, 2005
  21. Flower Girl

    Flower Girl Dormant account

    Location:
    Los Angeles
    It seems to me that Flu Shot is asking a legitimate question that no one is addressing.


     
  22. Jun 6, 2005
  23. sharpgambler

    sharpgambler Webmaster

    Occupation:
    webmaster, research
    Location:
    www
    Although it may be clearly stated on terms and conditions it is an absolutely unacceptable rule.

    Just because a certain rule is clearly stated under an agreement it does not mean that it is acceptable. In this case it is not.
     
  24. Jun 6, 2005
  25. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    It's going to be a sting in the tail for unwary players, but it is stated clearly in the terms that you have to wager transferred funds, so it's hard to claim the casino's deceiving anyone. Flu Shot was particularly annoyed because he/she wagered an extra 60000 in the bonus account in excess of requirements, but that was just a mistake. It's not the casino's fault the funds weren't transferred before wagering (though in their position I'd have made an exception for someone willing to gamble that far in excess of requirements).

    I don't agree with the prejudice against bonus accounts. Captain Cooks used to be the MG casino with the best sign-up bonus, despite a bonus account, and for a while these Casino Action casinos like Music Hall had the best bonuses (better a sticky bonus in a bonus account than in your real account!). I'd personally avoid their current bonus due to the wagering requirements, but they're not worse than at many other casinos.

    We'd accept a casino for accredited status if it was honest and paid quickly even if the sign-up bonus had a negative expectation, so why not this one where the player's at least expected to make a profit? (my only concern would be the rogue history of the group with regard to bonuses) If you take up a bonus and the casino holds you to the terms of it I don't see any grounds for complaint - though I definitely understand the frustration!
     
  26. Jun 6, 2005
  27. Casinomeister

    Casinomeister Forum Cheermeister Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Homemaker
    Location:
    Bierland
    I understand the frustration too. I'm just catching up with this thread, and I agree, 45x is a little bit steep. I'll see if anything can be done about this.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2005
  28. Jun 8, 2005
  29. MrWolf

    MrWolf Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Journalist
    Location:
    London
    Wagering requirements are there so that players are forced to give a decent amount of action before being able to withdraw bonus money, something which Vesuvio did. To then say that extra wagering doesn't count because it was in one account and not another (yeah I know what the small print says) is punishing, pathetic, and pedantic. This complication of adding in an extra account is basically just aimed at trying to stop cashins on technicalities. It speaks volumes about the casino. Guess why Music Hall doesn't get my business and yet 32Red, Ladbrokes, and Trident Lounge get thousands?
     
  30. Jun 9, 2005
  31. funeralparty

    funeralparty Dormant account

    Location:
    Houston
    Im not really sure what all the fuss is about. This is BONUS, aka FREE money, so the casino has the right to make these large WR. I actually like the bonus accounts. Music Hall, and all the other Casino Action casinos, give better and more frequent bonuses than most other Microgaming casinos, so you have to applaud them for that. There is nothing deceptive about the bonus accounts. The WR are clearly stated on the website and within the software.

    Its good to see a little variety with all the MG casinos out there.
     
  32. Jun 9, 2005
  33. Bet it Up

    Bet it Up Dormant account

    Location:
    LA
    Not true. They annouce that they are doing away with the 2nd set of wagering, but then... Oh sorry, that is only for Platinum & maybe gold members. If they wanted to say "here is $100 and you have to wager it a million times." fine. You can choose to play or not. But to have this shifting wagering requirement, where the more you win the more you have to bet is just insane. What's more, it is really bad business because it alienates the very players they should want the most...the slot players. With this system the slot player who hits a big jackpot could easilly have millions in wagering requirements.
     
  34. Jun 9, 2005
  35. buck

    buck Experienced Member

    Location:
    Midwest USA
    Bonus Accounts


    Nothing deceptive but not worth the trouble, when it needs to be cleared twice with LARGE WR. I use to play at Music Hall but stopped after they shifted to this policy.

    Good Luck

    Buck
     
  36. Jun 9, 2005
  37. gaputernut

    gaputernut RIP Donna :(

    Occupation:
    Webmistress
    Location:
    US
    bonus accounts

    I have to agree with most of you that the bonus account is BS.
    First.....is the bonus done automaticaly? most of these site do, so you don't have a choice as to weather you want the bonus or not.
    It seems that Flu is getting these bonuses thrown in his bonus account and not even knowing they where there.
    One piece of advice...for what it's worth....Always zero out accounts before making another dep!!!

    alot of casinos require the account zero'ed out to stop the WR for that one dep. If you add to that dep before depositing again.....it just adds to the WR. Which stinks....but that is how they work.

    I personally only take a bonus if I can "opt-in" or Claim it myself. That way, if I play all my money, I can then use the bonus.

    As for 32Red, I love the place, but before you play a penny of your dep you have to claim bonus. So...I don't claim that bonus.

    These Bonus account casinos arn't worth the trouble....Flu had a good run of luck using his bonus account, but I have never been able to move any $$ from the bonus to real account.
    The bonus account reminds me of "play for fun" cause that is all I ever do.

    MHO
     
  38. Jun 10, 2005
  39. Verbatim

    Verbatim Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Call centre Manager
    Location:
    Africa
    Thank goodness you don't always get what you want

    I recently had a run in with royal vegas casino where I had winnings in a bonus account and they told me that i cannot transfer all of it. They gave a limit of $1,000 with a wagering requirment of 15.

    I was very upset about this! I am now just greatful that I did not transfer a bigger amount due to the wagering and also that the wagaring I had to do was not as steep. I will read the terms and conditions carefully next time.

    I agree that a 45 wagering requirement is a bit steep. :eek2:
     

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