Mr Q asking for bank statement after withdrawing winnings

[justdoit]

All this pretend "player protection" BS, and yet the max bet button on many slots is still there, and positioned right next to the spin button.

And I would bet nearly every CM slotter has spunked up a mistake max bet or 10!! I know I have a few times!

it happen to me from 50p spin to £40 a spin

 

[TheSchwad]

So I'm having the same issue with MrQ, they've sent a email demanding KYC documents, some of which I have no problem with, others I do.

1. Valid ID and Proof of Address: You can use your Driving Licence to cover both of these. We accept passports along with a utility bill, HMRC letter, or home/motor insurance documents if issued within the last 3 months. We accept council tax bills dated within the last 12 months.
2. Connect your bank: Swing by this link to connect your banking app - it’ll help us verify your MrQ deposits and your income source. Please make sure the account you’re linking includes this information.
3. Your most recent payslip or SA302: if you're employed, we'll need your most recent payslip. If you're self-employed, we'll need your most recent SA302.
4. The card you’ve used on your account: Just pop over an image of this via email, ensuring the first 6 digits, last 4 digits and cardholder name are visible. If you’ve not used a card, no problem, you can skip this step.
5. Your occupation: You can let us know your occupation via email and we’ll update this on your account. Alternatively, you can visit your profile and update your occupation yourself.

I refuse to let a Third Party App access my bank account (Pt 2), and has no bearing on my deposits to MrQ, as I've always used PayPal which also makes point 4 Null & Void.

I've left it a few weeks, but today decided to close my account as its not a site I use regularly. Or so I thought until I looked at my lifetime loss, so I can understand why they have are asking, but why not ages ago?


Live chat have stated, even if I close my account, they will not process my £88 withdrawal (left over from a £100 deposit which let me spin a few minutes then froze my account) unless I fulfil the full KYC.

Now I'm not too fussed about £88, but I am the principle of holding me over a barrel unless I do what they say, and give over access of my bank account to an unknown source, what if I'd have hit big and they were withholding thousands.

I'm sure it's been posted many times, but what is the specific rule to not withholding withdrawals for KYC?

 

[L&L-Jan]

I'm sure it's been posted many times, but what is the specific rule to not withholding withdrawals for KYC?

Hi mate, the request looks like SOW/EDD imo. Not KYC. With providing point 2 and 3 they SOW verify you. Not sure why those other docs are requested, didnt you already provide those or did they electronically KYC you to reach these deposit/withdrawal thresholds?

 

[TheSchwad]

Don't think they've ever asked me for anything, so maybe they did ID through credit searches. Its obviously a generic email (as evidenced by asking for a card Pt 4 that I've never used) so I'm sure some sections are irrelevant.

I'm content to send them what they need (wages slips, ID, even a PayPal Screenshot), I'm just not comfortable (and I know you're an advocate of it cos of its speed) linking my Bank Account to an unknown App. Especially as this doesn't have purpose, other than verify where my wages and pension go. My bank has no links to MrQ, all deposits go through PayPal where I keep my monthly gambling fund, so deposits to MrQ wouldn't show up here anyway.

I guess the Third Party Banking verification is an improvement (for the casino at least) to Bank Statement PDFs (which I can easily doctor using Adobe Acrobat and make myself a millionaire) but can't see many players trusting this, and will refuse to complete and move on.

 

[TheSchwad]

Hi mate, the request looks like SOW/EDD imo. Not KYC. With providing point 2 and 3 they SOW verify you. Not sure why those other docs are requested, didnt you already provide those or did they electronically KYC you to reach these deposit/withdrawal thresholds

Jan, do you keep stats on lost customers due to KYC/EDD requests?

It would be interesting if all casino's clubbed together to present the information to the UKGC, to help demonstrate most players find it too invasive, and the process needs an overhaul.

I'm sure most are happy to show their funds are legitimate, and have an appropriate deposit limit imposed based on this. I think where most have issues, is the invasive nature of providing full access to their individual domestic spending that goes way beyond what even money lenders require (eg application for a credit card).

 

[L&L-Jan]

It would be interesting if all casino's clubbed together to present the information to the UKGC, to help demonstrate most players find it too invasive, and the process needs an overhaul.

@TheSchwad

Problem is that these rules are not set by the UKGC, its EU AML directives that casinos fall under. Applies to all regulated markets. UKGC does give guideness but that's about it.

Operator writes their own procedures based on EU AML directives. Those are send to the UKGC and they assess if you execute them accordingly. If not, fines are issued

As a MGA player, I need to provide this information too. I play at Stars and Party and yearly they request bank statements + pay slips or tax return.

 

[satchnz]

@TheSchwad not that this will affect you as you are abandoning your account (and I don’t blame you) but if you are depositing from a joint bank account (or funding your PayPal from a joint bank account) then MrQ will close your account anyway. It’s a very odd rule of theirs but that’s their stance.

 

[jasonuk]

Third Party Banking verification is an improvement (for the casino at least) to Bank Statement PDFs (which I can easily doctor using Adobe Acrobat and make myself a millionaire) but can't see many players trusting this, and will refuse to complete and move on.

Exactly this, if there's no way for the Open Banking initiative to limit what the casino can see - then they'll get access to everything... that's also assuming the underlying app is legit which would require further investigation.

Unscrupulous casinos will use that information to find any way not to pay you - such as the Joint Account clause mentioned above.

I know Jan is a fan of it, and I can see the benefit for the operator - but it's private information and the casino should only have access to the absolute minimum required to do their job... particularly as those requests "snowball" if they see something they don't like.

 

[TheSchwad]

@TheSchwad

Problem is that these rules are not set by the UKGC, its EU AML directives that casinos fall under. Applies to all regulated markets. UKGC does give guideness but that's about it.

Operator writes their own procedures based on EU AML directives. Those are send to the UKGC and they assess if you execute them accordingly. If not, fines are issued

As a MGA player, I need to provide this information too. I play at Stars and Party and yearly they request bank statements + pay slips or tax return.

That makes sense, a much higher authority and law.

Surely though, the AML checks are a much higher threshold, and they could just SoW where you show payslips and same value going into an account. It's the intrusive nature of 3 months unredacted bank statements (or third party app gleaning all the information from as far back as account was opened) that I don't trust.

 

[TheSchwad]

@TheSchwad not that this will affect you as you are abandoning your account (and I don’t blame you) but if you are depositing from a joint bank account (or funding your PayPal from a joint bank account) then MrQ will close your account anyway. It’s a very odd rule of theirs but that’s their stance.

Thankfully mines not a joint account but guess I'll just let them have the money anyway.

 

[TheSchwad]

Exactly this, if there's no way for the Open Banking initiative to limit what the casino can see - then they'll get access to everything... that's also assuming the underlying app is legit which would require further investigation.

Unscrupulous casinos will use that information to find any way not to pay you - such as the Joint Account clause mentioned above.

I know Jan is a fan of it, and I can see the benefit for the operator - but it's private information and the casino should only have access to the absolute minimum required to do their job... particularly as those requests "snowball" if they see something they don't like.

Data is power, and one of the most sought after/expensive/sold commodities these days. And someone getting hold of my banking information could help them pass security. For example a government website last week's asked me a series of questions regarding financial transaction to get my account unlocked.

And IIRC didn't Videoslots lose loads/leak customer information a few years ago, they can say it's secure but nothing online ever is.

 

[TheSchwad]

Exactly this, if there's no way for the Open Banking initiative to limit what the casino can see - then they'll get access to everything... that's also assuming the underlying app is legit which would require further investigation.

Unscrupulous casinos will use that information to find any way not to pay you - such as the Joint Account clause mentioned above.

I know Jan is a fan of it, and I can see the benefit for the operator - but it's private information and the casino should only have access to the absolute minimum required to do their job... particularly as those requests "snowball" if they see something they don't like.

And the snowball effect is the thing I most fear/hate.

My account in the last 6 months probably does look like I am a money launderer. I've done alot of home improvements, so alot of money coning in (from savings accounts and other sources) and loads going out.

There are 2 downsides to this:

Naturally, much more has left my account than come in during this period, so they could say I cannot afford to gamble or get very low deposit limit.

Srxondly, I only have receipts for some of expenses eg pay for new bathroom at the store (receipt) but pay the fitter in cash (big cash withdrawal no receipt). Would this be flagged up as an AML issue?

After providing receipts and explaining each expenses to show they're a one off and not part of my monthly outgoings, they would then want to see the original source of money from savings account, pensions, ISA's etc; it's just not worth it.

Thankfully I'm paid a salary so a consistent income, I couldn't even imagine how complicated getting paid hourly and wages changing each month would be for SoW. Or worse, self employed with a large but inconsistent income.

 

[jasonuk]

That makes sense, a much higher authority and law.

Surely though, the AML checks are a much higher threshold, and they could just SoW where you show payslips and same value going into an account. It's the intrusive nature of 3 months unredacted bank statements (or third party app gleaning all the information from as far back as account was opened) that I don't trust.

I would say they're much closer together now-a-days - AML rules generally start kicking in at £1000 (for a single transaction, or a series of "linked" transactions).

The problem is a lot of this comes down to interpretation - by both the player (understanding) and operator (regulatory compliance). The biggest headaches come when the operator is clearly out of their depth - we've seen sites do AML checks for £2000 wagered, or consider the entire lifetime linked (so £20 a week = AML after a year), or worse apply deposit-level checks on a withdrawal trigger.

As discussed in previous threads there is a minimum level of compliance, but arguably not a maximum level - which can be problematic when an operator is clearly taking the piss (as some do as a faux-reverse), and a player either knows their rights (and kicks up a fuss) or doesn't know their rights (and starts giving highly sensitive personal information unnecessarily).

Likewise, a smart player can adapt their playstyle to avoid these headaches - for example playing a smaller amount at multiple sites, rather than a larger amount at one. Then the only one doing an AML check is your bank, and they'll likely be doing one anyway using background data...