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More conclusive proof MG cheat

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Rusty, Jun 18, 2008.

    Jun 18, 2008
  1. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Cashapillar free spins Two quick retriggers so 45 Free spins.
    OK so that is good right?

    Yeah except the cashapillar not only never landed anywhere on the first reel it never even went past the first reel!
    LMFAO
     
  2. Jun 18, 2008
  3. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    i know what you mean, sometimes when i get the free spins on any slot i watch the reels and its like all the wild symbols have dissapeared, then when you finnish the freespins they suddenly appear
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Jun 18, 2008
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Sounds like RTG slots, not something we would expect with MG, where the reelstrips are supposed to be fixed.
    I have noticed that a few MG slots are now offering variable reelstrips during bonus rounds, one of which is Tomb Raider II - the passports are removed during free spins, as well as the removal symbols that have paid out. Removing the passports HELPS the player though, these are dead symbols for the free spins.

    If the symbols are messed with on Cashapillar during free spins, and the rules say nothing about it, then it implies that the free spin round is a bogus one, and is possibly only displaying a predetermined "pick" award. I often wonder if ALL free spin rounds are truly a series of independent spins, or the result of a pre-allocated "pick" displayed as a sequence of "winspins", as with the AWP games like Treasure Ireland.

    To win anything from Cashapillar, you need those strips of wilds to turn up, ideally on reel 1 and reel 3 at least to get 100x 3 of a kind. The setup makes this very high variance, as without the wilds, the free spin round returns very little.

    Getting all 5 strips of wilds lined up during free spins is a good deal less likely than hitting 5 wilds on Thunderstruck during free spins.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jun 18, 2008
  7. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Yup that is weighting for ya...but I decided to check something out.

    I figured it must already decide how much it was going to pay before the freespins or preweight the reels on freespins so when I saw this happen I assumed I must be going to lose.
    Sure enough I got slaughtered for a while but then hit this

    View attachment 12664

    So the Two do not seem to be linked.

    Only fair that I show this screenshot to keep balance but it does not explain how certain symbols literally disapear at times.
     
  8. Jun 18, 2008
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Could be a display cock-up, MG software is riddled with such bugs. A display cock-up caused a stir on Mega Moolah when it first came out, stopped on the "Mega" jackpot on the wheel, but only awarded the "Mini".
    MG hurriedly fixed this, and it turned out they had missed out some of the frames in the display movie for this bonus feature.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jun 19, 2008
  11. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    Possibly but why have a different movie for reels during free spins?

    Also it is noticeable that during normal spins sometimes only 1 cashapillar will appear at the bottom of reel one without the others going past.
    If it were just a flash movie playing an animation to a random stop position this could not happen.
    It is easy to have action script gather a random number from an RNG based on another server and then use that as a variable to stop at the frame you want.
    I write my own slots in flash CS3 and the animations never have the glitches (cheats) I come accross in MG software and by the way as 95% true random slots they do not play the same either.

    As an update I went on bomber Girl again thinking it could not be as bad as last time but 350 spins of pure kack!
    The free spins are hard to hit and I have yet to win more than X10 bet not only that but my overall payout for this slot 28%!!!

    At least I got my monies worth with that hit from cashapillar but Bomber Girls is a money sucking bag of proverbial shite.
     
  12. Jun 19, 2008
  13. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    You get similar things on the animations on Wagerworks and RTG - watch the reels and symbols appear to me mising, or changing. Pretty sure its just teh animation. I think each spin in the free spins is pre-determined, but the overall amount. Actually, you could test this using a "bug" (sic) on Cashapilla...

    If you switch to currency mode from coins mode (may work in both) and watch closely, just as a spin starts, if its going to give you more than a few X back, your bank balance momentarily shoots up, then drops back before the reels stop so you can see what you are about to shoot up to. This may happen in the free spins too though not checked.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Jun 19, 2008
  15. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    I wish I could stop playing Cashapleter, but it's sooooooo addictive. :mad:
    This is undoubtedly a very high variance slot (unusual for one with so many win-lines) and should be played with caution at least, or trepidation at best.
    Basically if you don't get loads of stacked wild on reels 2 - 4 you're in for a thrashing. :(

    I reckon the reels in free-spins are different to those in normal play - but can't prove that... yet.

    However, I really do believe that all MG slots (except AWP's) are truly random.
    I have seen nothing in 4 years of playing them that seriously gives evidence to the contrary.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Jun 19, 2008
  17. Matthew23

    Matthew23 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    Belfast, Northern Ireland
    This is very annoying. I emailed MG about this bug but they did not bother to reply. I then got 32red to forward my complaint to them and all I got from MG was a really stupid answer about how the coins count up :mad: They have no interest in fixing the bug, what I don't understand is why 32Red claimed they have never heard of this bug. YOu can't miss it, and it ruins the game play unless you look away each time you hit spin :rolleyes:

    As for Cashapillar, it would take too long for the reels to spin if they were animated to look truly random.

    I also think free spins rounds are predetermined. This would explain why there are so many wilds appearing in free spins, not just Cashapillar, games like Mega Moolah. 3 Wilds in view is around as likely as 3 Scatter, but on this game I once hit 7 spins out of 15 that had 3 wilds inview.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Jun 19, 2008
  19. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    Free spins need to be viewed as any other 'bonus' feature... Just because the reels do pretty things for a bit, it doesn't neccesarily mean that the outcome isn't pre-determined.

    This does not in any way make a slot or software provider 'rigged'... Sometimes you'll get a 'good' or 'great' pre-determined payback from the freespins, in the same way you'll sometimes get a 'good' or 'great' result from a bonus feature... Similarly the opposite will obviously (more often) apply... It's just the way slots and percentages work...

    What sealed it for me is, perversely, the disproportionate amount of times we see good five symbol wins line up in the free spins on Thunderstruck, Ladies Nite etc... That occurs when the feature pre-determines a 'great' payout - and does pointless pretty things with the pictures to make it fun and add up.

    Finally, one last time, this is in no way an indication that a slot is 'rigged'... It's an indication that a slot is a slot, performing to the pre-determined overall percentage that it's supposed to.
     
    2 people like this.
  20. Jun 19, 2008
  21. AudiManinBoro

    AudiManinBoro Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    Sales
    Location:
    UK
    Weve been thorugh all this before lol and I still say anythign that is pre determined CANNOT be random :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Jun 19, 2008
  23. Roar

    Roar Dormant account

    Occupation:
    SE
    Location:
    Philippines

    The return from a fair Roulette wheel is "pre-determined" (mathematically certain) but each spin is "random".

    A "Slot is a Slot" is truer than true. Casinos, affiliates and bonus hunters need to get paid. Keep spinning them Slots, keep posting up them winning screen-shots. Roll up ploppies, we love youse all.

    ..
     
  24. Jun 19, 2008
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The problem here is that the variance is NOT the natural one associated with the reel strips and paytable. This can create a high variance slot out of what appears as a low variance one. If not cheating, it is certainly misleading, and also means that the percentage payout is not mathematically related to the actual structure of the game - and since casinos say that the percentage payouts for individual slots are a "commercial secret", this gives them the opportunity to create a slot that mathematically seems to meet expectations of 95%, but actually delivers, say, 90%.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Jun 20, 2008
  27. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    That is it in a nutshell, I do call it cheating because there is absolutely no technical reason why the variance should not be a natural one and the payout % dictated by the paytable.

    It seems obvious that Free spin payouts are predetermined so it is not a huge step to assume that normal spin payouts are predetermined.

    MG,RTG,Playtech etc they all cheat because the slots are not truely random as they state.
    Some Casinos may pay 95% (more likely 85%) on slots but they are not random in this context.

    If only I had the time I would code Two clones of an MG slot one that cheats in the MG way and one that is truely random and let you see the difference with your own eyes.

    It makes me sad because when I first got into online slots the biggest draw was that they could be completely random and offer high % returns because the overheads were much lower than a B&M casino.
    Of course that was naive of me because the industry is awash with crooks and bullshit and I have yet to find a Casino that utilises software that is completely honest.

    Sure you can still win online but you can only ever win what the Casino allows you to and that stinks.

    I am busy putting together a site that will offer everything in a slot that I hoped for when I first played online.
    It will feature genuine 95%+ slots with full explanations of the variance in the payout tables.
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Jun 21, 2008
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The games probably pay less than we might expect due to the perceived need for casinos to shower players with bonuses. The bonuses have to come from somewhere, and that is usually from low profile benefits.
    Hence, we have well advertised bonuses, but often less than "full pay" table games and 93% to 95% slots instead of 98% slots. Worse, this means players that do not qualify for the bonuses (for being Danish, for example), are subsidising players that do because they are still playing games with depressed payouts to fund bonuses they will never receive.


    I'm just waiting for the smarta** who will one day "crack" the "random" games and create a situation where the software companies will be forced to admit that the games are predictable, rather than 100% random.
     
    3 people like this.
  30. Jun 23, 2008
  31. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    That would be sweet, I am working on it :D
     
  32. Jun 23, 2008
  33. james01

    james01 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Germany
    I wouldn't mind a lower payout - say 94%, but I want a slot to actually be fully random. And I don't want them telling me I'm getting free spins when all I'm getting is a pre-determined bonus. That's just lying.
     
    1 person likes this.

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