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Roguish Migration of funds to another company following new UK legislation

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by eckky, Oct 29, 2014.

    Oct 29, 2014
  1. eckky

    eckky Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    uk
    Hi all,

    Firstly, please excuse any newb mistakes, I am very new to gaming, also I will not be naming and shaming the operator involved (yet), as it is still 'unresolved'.

    I live in Scotland, and this mess seems to be related to the new UK legislation, but I am questioning the legality of what this operator is telling me, I am *not* looking for legal advise here, just some feedback to see if more knowledgeable people than me think this seems questionable too.

    Heres the back story, grab some popcorn...
    I signed up on a well known internationally based site (operating from the US I think) on the 28th September 2014 and was lucky enough to win 120,000x the stake with my bonus on a slot, I played through all the wagering requirements, the amount won, and the bonus terms being met are not in question by me or the operator, I requested a withdraw on the 29th September.

    After a lot of emailing, they confirmed my ID had been verified on the 21st October 2014, so re-requested a withdraw on the next day (22nd October), which was queued successfully, after which I had no communication from them.

    Yesterday (28th October) I was wondering what happened to my funds, so logged in and saw the withdrawal was credited back to my account, so I requested another withdrawal, which was queued successfully again.

    When I tried to check on the account today (29th October) I get a popup saying my account 'needs to be migrated' to another site (which is owned by a different company, by the way) and by clicking continue I accept these terms and conditions of the transfer, which I obviously didn't click.

    I am just guessing that it is because of the new legislation in the UK requiring operators to have a UK gaming license?, which they do not have it seems, but can they legally just offload my considerable account balance 'just like that'?


    I talked to the operator at length on the phone today and was told I need to migrate my account to this other operator account as my debit card can not be credited which is why they refunded it back to the casino account (without bothering to inform me, twice) and now they do not handle UK based players. They confirmed the new site will require me to go through the whole ID process again, it is a totally separate company and site, which is very worrying.

    I am not really complaining, so I apologise if this is in the wrong forum, but I am questioning the legality of it, what do you think?

    Thanks in advance,
    -Al.

    *EDIT* got my months wrong!
     
  2. Oct 29, 2014
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    If this new site fails to pay, the responsibility rests with the old site. They should have paid on the 22nd, they had plenty of time.

    There is also an FAQ on the UKGC site about this kind of situation, and the casino don't have a leg to stand on as the new rules prevent them from taking bets, but do not prevent them from settling bets that were taken before Nov 1st. It also means they had no legal impediment when it came to paying you.

    If they have managed to pay you before, it's double BS because nothing has changed in respect of processing.

    It seems they refunded the considerable win back to your account as a stalling tactic, so that they could wriggle out of processing the payment by ensuring the deadline passed beforehand.

    There has been a separate complaint of the same nature levelled at Platinum Play (Fortune Lounge group), who also stalled and then refunded a withdrawal to the casino account of a player who had made it in good time for it to be paid before the cutoff.
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Oct 30, 2014
  5. eckky

    eckky Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    uk
    Thanks for the very informative reply and info.

    it was my thinking the re-credit was a stalling tactic as well. I am nervous about mentioning who the operator is before I get it resolved, but I think you can guess judging from your reply.

    Thanks,
    -Al.
     
  6. Oct 30, 2014
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    It might be worth a PAB over the way this was handled. It's bad enough that players are being kept in the dark till the last minute, but this makes things look rather more sinister as to WHY players are being kept in the dark till the last minute.

    I have argued that decent notice is needed so that players can have time to get their affairs in order in good time so that by the time the casino closes to UK players, they don't have any outstanding matters. The issue with the other case is that the player decided that it was bound to happen by Nov 1st in any case, so they decided to withdraw in good time so that it could be processed before the new rules kicked in. Clearly the casino didn't want this, and may have been the real reason for keeping players in the dark about the changes. They seem to have discarded their ability to pay UK players several days before they even made the announcement, let alone stopped taking deposits. In effect, they were taking money knowing they had no means of paying out other than dumping that responsibility onto another company.

    Most players probably left it too late anyway, trying to act on the day of the announcement, which was too late in any case. They are now reliant on a completely different company to pay their winnings, and there is no guarantee that they will as the players have to be verified all over again to a different company's standards. We have already had complaints from players where their usual documents have been OK for ages, but suddenly for a new casino they are not adequate to prove their ID.

    I acted in mid July, discarding all Digimedia casinos from that date after initial reports that they were set to dump UK players during August. Whilst this didn't happen, they were setting up the players who remained loyal for a fall, the size of which would depend on how much money they had in their account the day they discarded the ability to pay UK players. At best, it means some UK players have to wait 2-3 weeks to receive a withdrawal that would normally get paid after a 48 hour pending period.

    I have found that the migration process DEPENDS on me having continued to play and keep the client installed, as in order to migrate, I have to log into the old client. Since I ditched the casinos and then uninstalled the clients, I find migration has been impossible, even downloading the destination casino (Spin Casino) has not worked. I can log in to the migrated accounts, but I can't actually get in because I am then redirected to the registration form to create a new account, which we have been told specifically NOT to do in the migration emails.

    I already have a Betway account in any case, but despite them being anxious to convert these migrated accounts into loyal players, they seem to have completely forgotten that their existing UK player base even exists. Are they going to forget those who migrate even exist once they have passed through the welcome inducements, and then try to seek out ever more UK players through marketing, or buying out further casinos' UK players.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Oct 30, 2014
  9. eckky

    eckky Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    uk
    Oh, they have blatantly used every stalling tactic in the book on me:

    * The 1st email I got from them was 12 days after my 1st withdraw informing me hey had refunded the withdraw as they had not received my documents yet (this was the 1st communication I got from them).
    * They sent me no communication *at all* about the other 2 reversals, only reason I found out was by logging in and seeing the balance back up.
    * Now I cannot even access my account without accepting the migration to the other operator, the popup blocks my account as soon as i log in, and the only way to continue past it into my account is to press 'accept' it seems (there is no 'no thanks', 'close' or 'no way hosay' option to close the pop up far as I can see) so I cannot even look at the history of the account to see what has happened.

    1 or 2 missed communications I can just about accept as mistakes, but 4 crucial missed communications and now locked out of the account is so blatant it would be almost comical if a large chunk of change was not at stake.

    Anyway, sorry, I can feel a rant starting, so I better end it here. Thank you for all your advise weatherman, it is good stuff and I appreciate you taking the time, I am off for some 'lite' reading I guess.

    -Al.
     
  10. Oct 30, 2014
  11. mcgameboy

    mcgameboy Screenieholic & Essayist mm2

    Occupation:
    Casual Stocktaker (Inventory Counter)
    Location:
    Belfast
    You CAN see your history Al.

    I should mention that I was the player that vinylweatherman was referring to re: the Platinum Play reversal. I should take a moment here and now to report that the withdrawal has been processed (on the 27th according to my transaction history). I am now waiting on the cheque arriving in the mail.

    And I also must mention that Wim (the Fortune Lounge rep here on the CM forum) did see my original post voicing my annoyance at the reversal of that withdrawal from Platinum Play. He did take the time to PM me and give me his assurances that the matter was being looked into. That PM was sent to me in the early hours of the 27th (around 4am). Given that the withdrawal was processed on the 27th, I think I can assume that Wim's PM to me was sent BEFORE the processing of the withdrawal. So his looking into the matter did help matters along for me.

    But anyhow, back to the matter of accessing your account. Here's what I did....doing the same should work for you.

    Obviously, you have not stated categorically which casino your "beef" is with. But I am going to assume it is one of the five Fortune Lounge casinos. If I am wrong, then I apologise in advance (to you and to Wim).

    Attempt to log into your (name of casino) account. Wait for the popup. The popup is positioned in such a way that it is still possible to click on the "Bank" circle.

    At this point, click on "Bank". The banking page should open. And you will be asked to login again. Type in your details and login. Your login should be successful and you will be taken to the Deposit tab or (if your withdrawal is currently reversible) to the Reverse Withdrawal tab.

    Look for the "Statement" tab on the banking page. Click on that and you will see two links "Transaction History" and "Direct Bank Transfer Queries".
    Click on "Transaction History". And then do the necessary changes to the "to and from" dates. And you then should at the very least be able to see what the "status" of your withdrawal is. If it does not say "Work in Progress" or "Processed", then it is time to get in touch with Wim. I can speak from personal experience that Wim is exceptionally good at helping get stuff done/resolved. Whatever you do, PLEASE be 100% polite to him. He is a good guy and deserves to be treated with respect. I personally cannot speak highly enough of him.

    I should also mention that I tried this just a few minutes ago before sending this post. And I had migrated all but one of my Fortune Lounge accounts to Spin Casino a good 5 days ago.

    And finally, this is a link to Wim's profile.....from there you should be able to PM him with your complaint.

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/member.php?u=281

    Best of luck and hopefully you will get things sorted out. :)
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Oct 30, 2014
  13. eckky

    eckky Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    uk
    Thanks for sharing your experience!, especially as it had a positive outcome, thats reassuring. I don't have a beef with the operator at all, yet. I just wanted some more knowledgable option on it before deciding what to do (the transfer t&c scared me I think), both you and weatherman have provided it in spades, so thanks for your time and insights! I appreciate it.

    -Al.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Oct 30, 2014
  15. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    It's hard to say really without knowing who the casino is, but if the casino you played and won with and the one you're going to are both reputable then there shouldn't be any problems. What's worrisome is that from your first post it took 3+ weeks from the time you requested your withdrawal to them approving your docs?

    Is the casino accredited here? If they have a rep you should contact them.
     
  16. Oct 30, 2014
  17. eckky

    eckky Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed
    Location:
    uk
    * It gets worse actually, I forgot to mention I had to email support asking about status of the withdraw 11 days into the withdraw request (after no communication at all from them), to elicit the 'as we have not received your documents, the withdraw has been reversed' reply. Thats was the 1st time they had sent me anything requesting any documents ,now 15 days after the withdraw request.

    The saga is not improving either, I tried mcgameboy's tip about getting around the 'migrate your account' pop up blocking my account access, so I could at least see whats happening, but it does not work with the site. I believe it is the same software system, but this site only seems to use the flash and mobile clients, not the downloadable one. I have tried accessing my account on 3 different browsers and an andriod phone, the 'migrate your account' pop up completely disables all account buttons (bank,my account,playcheck, cashcheck) on all of them, so I am definitely locked out of my account.

    I have asked Wim for advice, so lets hope he can help.

    -Al.
     
  18. Oct 30, 2014
  19. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    He's very helpful, hopefully he can get you sorted. :thumbsup:
     

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