Midaur - Another One Bites The Dust

Which subjects? You attacked the ASA. The only action I've seen them take is to stop casinos/affiliates/marketing agencies making wild and false claims, and making them include significant terms where space allows. What else have they done that has affected revenue streams?

Maybe ask some of the other operators. They might be willing to fill in the blanks for you.
No offence Collin but I don't feel like having this discussion with you.

Thanks and much love.
 
Maybe ask some of the other operators. They might be willing to fill in the blanks for you.
No offence Collin but I don't feel like having this discussion with you.

Thanks and much love.

Well stop crying about it then. Your posts have, as Matti says, been full of 'woe is me', and attacking pretty much everything in the whole casino industry, players, UKGC, ASA, Providers, programmers, Gamstop etc rather than accepting any responsibility yourselves. Your whole attitude on here has been terrible from the start, you might as well have written 'WE HATE ANYONE TAKING A BONUS' in your previous thread when people genuinely didn't understand your complicated terms and conditions.

You know, if you hadn't been as condescending in your previous posts then more people might have played at your casino from here. Your welcome bonus of £100 max cashout was poor to say the least. You might not want to talk to me and thats fine, but I'm not the only one who thought you were condescending and rude in your posts on here. Maybe read through the thread below and see if, in hindsight, you thought you were being polite?

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Having said that, I don't like to see people lose jobs/businesses and I genuinely wish you (and your colleagues) the best for the future.
 
Well I for one commend the Midaur rep for coming in and posting openly. Very interesting view "from the other side" - and if it's true that big wins can be injected into games independently of the RNGs, then it follows that shit results can also be manufactured - if that isn't a cause for concern and an extra sheet of tinfoil, I don't know what is.
 
Well I for one commend the Midaur rep for coming in and posting openly. Very interesting view "from the other side" - and if it's true that big wins can be injected into games independently of the RNGs, then it follows that shit results can also be manufactured - if that isn't a cause for concern and an extra sheet of tinfoil, I don't know what is.

I've always wondered if the coders put back doors into software. They have done in the past into fruit machines, so would be surprised if it doesn't happen with online games.
 
I've always wondered if the coders put back doors into software. They have done in the past into fruit machines, so would be surprised if it doesn't happen with online games.

Yes but we were always told everything was "signed", checksummed, lots of security etc.. Furthermore the software provider can't "see" who the player is? Well, not if this story is accurate.
 
We did it guys. We got Colin onto the Dark Side

tenor.gif
 
Unless I missed something, I dont think the rep said anything to lean into tinfoil hat theories about games not being on the up and up; rather, savvy players found exploits to well....exploit
 
Not really buying that part of the story that big wins would be somehow arranged etc.... Would assume that would be much more discussed but first time heard any operator suggesting it happening (even in this island most of people you speak are working for some....)
 
Well stop crying about it then. Your posts have, as Matti says, been full of 'woe is me', and attacking pretty much everything in the whole casino industry, players, UKGC, ASA, Providers, programmers, Gamstop etc rather than accepting any responsibility yourselves. Your whole attitude on here has been terrible from the start, you might as well have written 'WE HATE ANYONE TAKING A BONUS' in your previous thread when people genuinely didn't understand your complicated terms and conditions.

You know, if you hadn't been as condescending in your previous posts then more people might have played at your casino from here. Your welcome bonus of £100 max cashout was poor to say the least. You might not want to talk to me and thats fine, but I'm not the only one who thought you were condescending and rude in your posts on here. Maybe read through the thread below and see if, in hindsight, you thought you were being polite?

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Having said that, I don't like to see people lose jobs/businesses and I genuinely wish you (and your colleagues) the best for the future.

Speak to the other casino operators that have left the UK and they will be pretty much singing from the same hymn sheet as Midaur. Attend ICE and speak to them.
I think it's refreshing he's actually taken the time in quite a humorous way to explain what it was like navigating through the intricacies of our market. No need to be so aggressive to a rep who has actually taken the time to explain things from their side in a little more detail than usual.
 
Speak to the other casino operators that have left the UK and they will be pretty much singing from the same hymn sheet as Midaur. Attend ICE and speak to them.
I think it's refreshing he's actually taken the time in quite a humorous way to explain what it was like navigating through the intricacies of our market. No need to be so aggressive to a rep who has actually taken the time to explain things from their side in a little more detail than usual.
So what are the things the ASA have done that I haven't mentioned that have killed the revenue stream for casinos? You know I am pretty much up to date with the ASA and CAP and was getting onto casinos about it way before any penatlies were dished out. I genuinely don't know what else Midaur are talking about.

I wasn't being aggressive, they stated 'facts' I disagreed with their 'facts' I asked questions, they refused to answer. No different to what they have done in the past when asked questions they didn't want to answer. In the thread I linked to they were criticised by almost everyone who posted, not only for their bonus, but their attitude towards members on here, yet now they are leaving the UK, suddenly we all have to be nice to them? Lets not forget, back in July they said they were going to change the bonus terms in 10 days. They haven't posted since (until today) and also haven't changed their terms.
 
Ahh Mr Midaur has edited his post at 6.50pm, [I thought there was only a 2hr window to carry out editing?]

I wanted to re-read the parts about the ASA, but I noticed the section where 'mayfair snobs' was mentioned has been deleted :rolleyes: :confused:

I did find this paragraph though:

We revamp our website, affiliate communications etc. It has to be dull because anything remotely attractive is apparently “child-friendly”. See how the love is growing? This seems to be enforced very selectively. When you are part of the big 5, the rules seem to be a bit more lenient.

That's what I took from his post re the ASA, I remember they started to accuse slots like Jack and the beanstalk of attracting children to gamble. Lots of themes resonate from childhood, pirates and treasure etc... so I presume from then on, website design became a bigger ball-ache. [Not a large issue in itself but when added to all the other rules and enforcements coming in]
 
It's not the performance and rules of individual agencies but the overall fragmented nature of the business. You have ASA, UKGC, CAP and whichever other acronym is relevant and sometimes these can be contradictory in their actions, for example approving compliance to games then deciding the theme cannot be used in advertising or displayed on casino home pages.
The whole industry lacks a single entity which can administer from start to finish for the operator.

The UKGC from its inception in 2007 has had nearly 12 years to understand the industry and yet has consistently failed to do so. It lacks knowledge, perception and expertise and so tries to be everything to everybody and fails miserably. True, it's better than it was but is still way short of the mark even allowing for the learning curve. It was initially staffed by Civil Service retirees in the main and clearly had little input from people who actually had sufficient knowledge of the online gambling process and market.

This is why it took them until 2015 to make operators use a UK license for UK players, why they've yet to address the issue of reversals despite this being a major RG issue for over a decade but then keep banging the RG drum.

They haven't made the obvious decision (that I know of) to make casinos list co-licensees in their offers and terms despite the huge amount of grief this has caused players SE'd from other sites when it comes to withdrawing.

They haven't issued clear and concise details of exactly what proofs SoW should require and leave it to the casino to decide if they are 'satisfied'. The same goes for levels of affordability which is why operators are being over-zealous for fear of being fined, beyond reasonable common sense and therefore to the detriment of many players. Yet none of this is applied to high street bookies.

It has consistently responded robustly to selective news articles and opinions voiced in the lefty media and BBC whilst ignoring the practicalities that actually apply to most players, some of which I mentioned above.

Their GAMSTOP scheme was all very nice on paper yet as we said could never be really effective until they worked with payment providers to ensure they only actioned UK deposits to UK-licensed sites. Now we've seen a huge rise in unlicensed gambling and the sites that promote it.

They've licensed at least a couple of criminal operators too.

I know one person who dealt with them in trying to become a licensed ADR and was staggered when it came to their ignorance and lack of industry knowledge.

So having to deal with this, the ASA and all the other agencies must be a horror show for any licensee and require a large amount of resources. The UKGC is not fit for purpose and needs to be reorganized so it takes into account all aspects of the industry, operators, players, specialist advertising and complaints.

Because at the moment there is no danger of a new corner shop growing into the next chain store.
 
My personal opinion: This thread and comments from @MidaurOnlineCasino rep are really interesting and while I can’t (or won’t) comment on any individual aspect of his (or her) detailed feedback - I think it’s only right to say I don’t think the big operators are treated any different than the smaller ones, it’s likely that it’s just the size and resource can allow us to overcome them.

All the best to you and your team buddy.

Mark
 
Ahh Mr Midaur has edited his post at 6.50pm, [I thought there was only a 2hr window to carry out editing?]

I wanted to re-read the parts about the ASA, but I noticed the section where 'mayfair snobs' was mentioned has been deleted :rolleyes: :confused:

I did find this paragraph though:

We revamp our website, affiliate communications etc. It has to be dull because anything remotely attractive is apparently “child-friendly”. See how the love is growing? This seems to be enforced very selectively. When you are part of the big 5, the rules seem to be a bit more lenient.

That's what I took from his post re the ASA, I remember they started to accuse slots like Jack and the beanstalk of attracting children to gamble. Lots of themes resonate from childhood, pirates and treasure etc... so I presume from then on, website design became a bigger ball-ache. [Not a large issue in itself but when added to all the other rules and enforcements coming in]

I wonder who the big 5 are? I would have thought Coral and William Hill would be two of them, but apparently not as clearly from their post, Midaur seem to think the ASA/UKGC only target smaller firms

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

The advertising regulator recently banned three Coral Interactive ads for featuring animated images of a rainbow, a pot of gold and a leprechaun, because they were likely to appeal to children. A William Hill advert appearing within the app New MarioKart 8 Trick was also banned for not being appropriately targeted away from children.
 
Paddy power/betfair

will hill

coral/ladbrokes

bet365

sky

perhaps this is the big uk 5?

I think he said the rules were applied a bit more leniently, in those two instances a competitor may have made a complaint and so the ASA has to be seen to act.

Big firms are treated differently, they have more influence in govt circles, whether it's through selective wining and dining, donations to political parties or just the money to legally challenge decisions and rulings, which means a regulator is more circumspect when looking at them?
 
Too lazy to go two pages back, but wasn't it that bigger ones can pay their fines and keep going instead of license get suspended/revoked? Something like "make 20 million, pay 5 in fines sounds good deal"

I saw you liked my post (thanks) but this wasn’t what I meant by saying we have the resource to deal with it. It was more about employing more staff to check everything is compliant and avoid the fines!
 
It's not the performance and rules of individual agencies but the overall fragmented nature of the business. You have ASA, UKGC, CAP and whichever other acronym is relevant and sometimes these can be contradictory in their actions, for example approving compliance to games then deciding the theme cannot be used in advertising or displayed on casino home pages.
The whole industry lacks a single entity which can administer from start to finish for the operator.

Thats like pretty much any other government department though. Have you ever tried dealing with the council for pretty much anything? You end up speaking to 10 departments to get permission to cut a dead tree down!
I really don't see the problem in banning ads that appeal to children. There are 1000's of slots out there, why the need to promote one call Alice in Wonderland in banners on Facebook? The 'do not promote to children' rule has always been there, its not new, its just another thing casinos chose to ignore.

The UKGC from its inception in 2007 has had nearly 12 years to understand the industry and yet has consistently failed to do so. It lacks knowledge, perception and expertise and so tries to be everything to everybody and fails miserably. True, it's better than it was but is still way short of the mark even allowing for the learning curve. It was initially staffed by Civil Service retirees in the main and clearly had little input from people who actually had sufficient knowledge of the online gambling process and market.

This is why it took them until 2015 to make operators use a UK license for UK players, why they've yet to address the issue of reversals despite this being a major RG issue for over a decade but then keep banging the RG drum.

They haven't made the obvious decision (that I know of) to make casinos list co-licensees in their offers and terms despite the huge amount of grief this has caused players SE'd from other sites when it comes to withdrawing.

They haven't issued clear and concise details of exactly what proofs SoW should require and leave it to the casino to decide if they are 'satisfied'. The same goes for levels of affordability which is why operators are being over-zealous for fear of being fined, beyond reasonable common sense and therefore to the detriment of many players. Yet none of this is applied to high street bookies.

I agree with most of that, but you are wrong about high street bookies. I've seen a file of KYC documents held at my local Coral before it closed and it was MUCH bigger than I thought it would be. The SoW one was smaller, but still bigger than expected, considering the size of the shop and location. It is much harder to enforce in a shop though, and much easier for people to get round. Coral are installing face recognition cameras in all their branches at the moment, and the reason is two fold. One is so that any SE'd customer can't walk into any shop in the country without being flagged up. The second is for AML purposes. How successful it will be remains to be seen, but they aren't doing it because they felt like it, they are doing it because they were told they had to tighten up on those areas in retail outlets. For anyone who uses Coral, the cameras being used for this are mounted just behind the counter, and are white dome ones, similar to the ones below. They aren't connected yet but will be before the end of year.

SR10370-40.jpg

Online, they have to abide by the same rules as anyone else. My view is that fines shouldn't be used. If theres evidence that they systematically have allowed people with clear gambling problems, or systematically failed to do AML checks when needed, then they should have their license suspended for 3/6 months for a first offence and 5 years for the second one. Not just the large firms, all of them. Watch how quickly things are done then.

It has consistently responded robustly to selective news articles and opinions voiced in the lefty media and BBC whilst ignoring the practicalities that actually apply to most players, some of which I mentioned above.

Their GAMSTOP scheme was all very nice on paper yet as we said could never be really effective until they worked with payment providers to ensure they only actioned UK deposits to UK-licensed sites. Now we've seen a huge rise in unlicensed gambling and the sites that promote it.

They've licensed at least a couple of criminal operators too.

I know one person who dealt with them in trying to become a licensed ADR and was staggered when it came to their ignorance and lack of industry knowledge.

I think the fact most of what the UKGC does is clueless is pretty much accepted by everyone :) I mean, how many people cut down gambling by only being able to play 100 autospins!

So having to deal with this, the ASA and all the other agencies must be a horror show for any licensee and require a large amount of resources. The UKGC is not fit for purpose and needs to be reorganized so it takes into account all aspects of the industry, operators, players, specialist advertising and complaints.

Because at the moment there is no danger of a new corner shop growing into the next chain store.

But the ASA and CAP codes apply to every single advertiser in the UK, not just gambling firms, and were around much earlier than most casinos. Granted there are specific CAP codes for remote operators, but the rules have been there years. In this instance Midaur seem to be implying they had to change how they did things in regard to marketing due to the ASA. But Midaur got their license in 2017, well after the 'not appeal to children' or 'must show terms' parts of the code were added. It isn't the fault of the ASA that they didn't read the rules properly. It's also not the ASA who sanction or 'fine' them, its the UKGC. The 'the big bookies get away with it' type comments are irrelevant. If you know someone who's burglaring houses and gets away with it, it doesn't mean you can do the same. Operate within the rules and you won't get in trouble.

I know it's not easy for casinos to operate in the UK, but certain things are easy to follow, CAP codes are one of them in my view.
 
Paddy power/betfair

will hill

coral/ladbrokes

bet365

sky

perhaps this is the big uk 5?

I think he said the rules were applied a bit more leniently, in those two instances a competitor may have made a complaint and so the ASA has to be seen to act.

Big firms are treated differently, they have more influence in govt circles, whether it's through selective wining and dining, donations to political parties or just the money to legally challenge decisions and rulings, which means a regulator is more circumspect when looking at them?

I actually think they are treated harsher if anything. Look at all the firms that have been fined millions, how many of them were smaller ones, not just for advertising, for RG & AML issues too. I actually think the UKGC aren't stupid. They want a revenue stream, fining Midaur £8 million for example, would pretty much mean they stop trading, go bankrupt and the UKGC get nothing, and the government don't get the 21% tax from them going forward. Fine Coral £8 million, they get the money, and keep getting the wads of tax money going forward.
 
I saw you liked my post (thanks) but this wasn’t what I meant by saying we have the resource to deal with it. It was more about employing more staff to check everything is compliant and avoid the fines!

No @Mark_32Red , i liked your post and agree that i don't think that bigger operators get any special service but same regulations apply for all.

My post had nothing to do with yours (would have quoted you in that case) but tried from memory quote what Midaur rep stated that they feel big operators only pay fines and go on instead of losing license etc....
 
I actually think they are treated harsher if anything. Look at all the firms that have been fined millions, how many of them were smaller ones, not just for advertising, for RG & AML issues too. I actually think the UKGC aren't stupid. They want a revenue stream, fining Midaur £8 million for example, would pretty much mean they stop trading, go bankrupt and the UKGC get nothing, and the government don't get the 21% tax from them going forward. Fine Coral £8 million, they get the money, and keep getting the wads of tax money going forward.

You know the business more than me Col. I just thought his post had balance and wit, he's obviously quite a intelligent person to be able to write that well. He was relaying his thoughts and views from the perspective of running a smaller casino, it's his impressions gained from his own direct experience.

I don't like the look of that camera btw, you see that kind of thing will be another cost to a small independent bookmaker business, if there are any left that is. I get a feeling half this stuff is about the ukgc staff and directors having something to do and meetings to talk about. They'll never be happy.... an instance of kowtowing to big interests and firms has just come to mind also, the loot crates in video games, make all that fuss about jatb and yet loot crates are okay.

"A key factor in deciding if that line has been crossed is whether in-game items acquired ‘via a game of chance’ can be considered money or money’s worth. In practical terms this means that where in-game items obtained via loot boxes are confined for use within the game and cannot be cashed out it is unlikely to be caught as a licensable gambling activity. In those cases our legal powers would not allow us to step in. "

I wonder where the ASA are also regarding loot boxes and exploiting children through video game mechanics :rolleyes:
 
You know the business more than me Col. I just thought his post had balance and wit, he's obviously quite a intelligent person to be able to write that well. He was relaying his thoughts and views from the perspective of running a smaller casino, it's his impressions gained from his own direct experience.

I don't like the look of that camera btw, you see that kind of thing will be another cost to a small independent bookmaker business, if there are any left that is. I get a feeling half this stuff is about the ukgc staff and directors having something to do and meetings to talk about. They'll never be happy.... an instance of kowtowing to big interests and firms has just come to mind also, the loot crates in video games, make all that fuss about jatb and yet loot crates are okay.

"A key factor in deciding if that line has been crossed is whether in-game items acquired ‘via a game of chance’ can be considered money or money’s worth. In practical terms this means that where in-game items obtained via loot boxes are confined for use within the game and cannot be cashed out it is unlikely to be caught as a licensable gambling activity. In those cases our legal powers would not allow us to step in. "

I wonder where the ASA are also regarding loot boxes and exploiting children through video game mechanics :rolleyes:
Yep that’s been looked into. Also a abhorrent thing.
Chip that great guy whom got me banned had a joint slot and box opening channel for his ‘business’
Make of that what you will, I’m seriously done getting banned for the likes of him.
Midaur where not a good casino and the rep all respect to him came on to explain how he’s gutted it’s all finished.
Also a few more valid points.
He also didn’t mention how his thread and responses regarding the bonus thread where about as customer friendly as a jimmy saville child minding business.
Blaming all for the the fact they are toast.
I’m genuinely happy the ukgc are ridding the uk market of waste of time clip joints.
We will still be left with many a casino to waste our money with.
It’s been the wild Wild West for too long, how the tables have turned..
 
I'm not claiming to know more than anyone else, just making observations. I thought the tone of the whole post was exactly how the rep has addressed the forum throughout the BFF thread and the one created when passed. Any slight thing that was picked up on was someone elses fault, never their own. I agree with some of what they say, but they are leaving the market, blaming everyone except the janitor's cat, but don't once, say they got anything wrong. No one wants to admit mistakes, but everyone does, even me :)

I picked up on the ASA part as not only did they speak about them as 'Mayfair Snobs' but what they were saying was, in my opinion, wrong. I also don't agree with what they say in other parts but the post would have been about 20 pages long, so just left it at one lol. They won't answer me as they know I'm correct and don't like me for pulling them to bits in previous threads about the bonus. If you read through the 2 main threads, anytime anything was mentioned that wasn't 'you're great' they responded with stupid gifs, or basically we're right, talk to the hand. They were also rude and condescending, and if you look at the post where the member stood to lose over £4k, you will see one example of it. Yes they were in the right, but it could have been handled better.

What worries me about the camera is the fact they will be able to link bets to customers, something they tried and failed (to a point) to do with the connect card. When I'm putting a £200 bet on a 12/1 shot, I do 4 x £50 bets in 4 different shops. Thats to stop the price crashing as quickly and so I don't get restricted/banned. I'll bet within 2 years I post how I'm banned from retail outlets of certain bookmakers, if they all install them.

I don't know anywhere near enough to comment on loot boxes to comment, but you can be sure they are getting looked at with a view to extracting money from them at some point in the future.
 
My personal opinion: This thread and comments from @MidaurOnlineCasino rep are really interesting and while I can’t (or won’t) comment on any individual aspect of his (or her) detailed feedback - I think it’s only right to say I don’t think the big operators are treated any different than the smaller ones, it’s likely that it’s just the size and resource can allow us to overcome them.

All the best to you and your team buddy.

Mark

Perhaps you are right. However, from personal experience the UKGC were far quicker to react to a small to medium size operator than have to go to one of the "big 5". Perhaps it's because of the size and resource and the amount of investigation required.

They seem to need to produce a hell of a lot of evidence to act. In the last WH fine for example there were some 30 players who had stolen from employers to fund gambling, spent 10's(and more) of thousands of pounds and never had even so much as one conversation or interaction with the operator. Where as fines for Daub for instance were formed from a handful of cases.

Some of the worst casinos have left the market though so we can all he happy about that. Have no experience of Midaur so cant comment on them, but it's a survival of the fittest at the moment
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Meister Ratings

Back
Top