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MicroGaming Three Card Poker Has A Mistake

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by spooky, Jul 12, 2004.

    Jul 12, 2004
  1. spooky

    spooky Dormant account

    Location:
    United Kingdom
    A few weeks ago I played three card poker at piggspeak casino.
    I made a bet of $100 and received QJT - a straight, I didn't fold ofcorse and the dealer had A23. I was expecting to win but than I was shocked to see that I have lost.

    How can it be? anyone knows that a Q straight is higher than a 3 straight.
    SO I lost $200 instead of winning $200.

    I wrote to the casino and I received the following answer from Microgaming:

    "In this Case the Player has lost the Ante Game since Microgaming Treats the ace as high so the dealers straight is higher. However the player has been paid back their ante since they have won on the Ante Bonus."

    So Microgaming invented a new rule in which an A23 straight is the secong highest srtaignt and they are the only one in the world who have this rule. they also did not wrote the rule in advance anywhere.

    It seems to me that they had a program mistake and now instead of admit it they invented this strange rule.

    I wrote about it to Michael Shackleford who is better known as "The Wizard Of Odds" He supported my stand and also wrote about it in his You must register/login in order to see the link.

    I demand that MicroGaming correct their mistake and pay me the winnings.

    Do you guys agree?
     
  2. Jul 12, 2004
  3. fortyoz

    fortyoz Dormant account

    Hi,

    Wherever i've played in land casinos Ace is higher then Queen .. only your highest card matters, unless you have the same, then its the second.. third.. etc.
     
  4. Jul 12, 2004
  5. Geoff Hall

    Geoff Hall Dormant account

    Location:
    England
    3-card poker is based on the English game of 'Brag'. In that game A,2,3 is the highest straight.

    Best regards

    Geoff
     
  6. Jul 12, 2004
  7. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Have to admit, thats how i was brought up to play it too :cool:
     
  8. Jul 12, 2004
  9. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    We had a discussion about that here a couple of weeks ago as well. The same rule is true in Paigow Poker, A2345 is the highest str8 or str8 flush.
     
  10. Jul 12, 2004
  11. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    This rule should be made clear, but it does not affect the strategy or the house edge.
     
  12. Jul 13, 2004
  13. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Second highest straight or straight flush. AKQJ10 is the highest. Not absolutely sure about 3 Card poker as I don't play it that much - but from my limited recollection A23 is second highest as well.
     
  14. Jul 13, 2004
  15. dirk_dangerous

    dirk_dangerous Dormant account

    I don't believe that an A,2,3 is the 2nd highest straight in 3cp. I'm almost positive that in a U.S. land based casino an A,2,3 is lower than a 10,J,Q.

    Also the Wizard discusses this on his page and he believes that Microgaming's 3cp hand ranking is incorrect: You must register/login in order to see the link.

    You have to scroll down to read it.
     
  16. Jul 13, 2004
  17. dirk_dangerous

    dirk_dangerous Dormant account

    Also, it appears that Microgaming is not taking this seriously; it would be nice if they would address this and make known what the exact rule is.
     
  18. Jul 13, 2004
  19. dirk_dangerous

    dirk_dangerous Dormant account

    This site states that the 3cp hand rankings are the same as regular poker. If that is the case, then an A,2,3 is the lowest straight possible. And anything higher should beat it.You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  20. Jul 13, 2004
  21. dirk_dangerous

    dirk_dangerous Dormant account

    Attached is a link to Shuffle Master's training manual for Three Card Poker (in PDF format).

    Scroll down to the "Ranking of Hands" section and you will see that Shuffle Master clearly states that the Ace is low in A,2,3. Microgaming's rules are clearly different from the rules commonly used to play this game.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  22. Jul 13, 2004
  23. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Nice find, Dirk. Obviously my limited recollection was not that good LOL.
     
  24. Jul 13, 2004
  25. nafanny29

    nafanny29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    financail adviser
    Location:
    London, England
    I have seen this game played in some UK land based casinos under the name Casino Brag. Maybe thats why A23 is ranked top 3 card straight?
     
  26. Jul 13, 2004
  27. dirk_dangerous

    dirk_dangerous Dormant account

    HeHe, well neither was mine :) I had to take a few minutes and dig around to find the right answer.

    It seems like the confusion is a result of the different carnations of the game. Americans will be used to A,2,3 being a low straight while those in the UK may not see a problem with A,2,3 being the second highest straight. Although, I believe any game called Three Card Poker would be licensed by Shuffle Master and should use the stated rules, no matter where it is played in the world.

    My own opinion is that MG should use the commonly used rules for 3cp, so that would mean A,2,3 would be a low straight.
     
  28. Jul 13, 2004
  29. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    There's the rub. These casinos get around licensing these games from companies like Shuffle Master, etc. by naming them something slightly different while using virtually the same rules and logos, etc.

    They call Three Card Poker (tm) 'tri card poker, Caribbean Stud (tm) becomes Cyberstud, Let it Ride (tm) become Let em Ride or Poker Pursuit. Since they are technically a different game, they wouldn't necessarily have to follow the rules of the trademarked game. So whatever Shuffle Master said wouldn't apply to these copies.
     
  30. Jul 13, 2004
  31. jpm

    jpm Dormant account

    Well yeah, I wasn't counting the royal flush as a str8 flush, although technically it is. But I did miss the 'royal str8'.
     
  32. Jul 15, 2004
  33. Stanford

    Stanford Dormant account

    Location:
    USA
    Dirk has the nuts

    Well done Dirk.

    I agree with the Wizard and Dirk. Aces can be played high or low but now around the corner.

    For example, an ace can be played as a 1 with A23. It can be played high as AKQ. It cannot be played around the corner like KA2 or in this case A(high),2, 3. In other words it cannot be played high and low at the same time.

    This rules is not *always* true in *some* high low games when A2345 can be played both ways. But usually the dealer will tell you.

    In this case, if MicroGaming is claiming the A is high - then they have an Ace high. If they are claiming it is low, they have the lowest possible straight.

    The player has found a bug in the coding. The proper thing to do is to pay him his money. And then give him a bonus for having to put up with being put off.

    The player should also notify ECOGRA. This aberration of a rule is not spelled at any MicroGaming site. So they need to know that *all* microgaming sites have a problem.

    I agree with the comment it does not affect the odds. But it does affect this player. He made a bet under common rules of 3 card poker. He needs to be paid... and thanked.

    Way to go Wizard. Glad you are willing to call them on it.

    Stanford
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2004

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