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Microgaming slots - are the odds adjustable?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by saladfingers, Feb 7, 2007.

    Feb 7, 2007
  1. saladfingers

    saladfingers Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    UK
    Sorry in advance - I'm sure this has been discussed before but I couldn't find the thread...

    Here's the (long) question:

    Basically: I only play Microgaming slots, across a lot of MG casinos. My concern is that the odds vary wildly from place to place.

    Every so often when I sign up at a new casino, I play various slots and hit the bonus rounds almost immediately. I made a huge profit from one, for instance, and when the bonuses kept coming, I started playing games I'd never played before, and hitting the bonus/freespins in those too. I played Glory of Rome and hit the bonus on my first spin, got the maximum from Cashanova, spins in Isis, MadHatters, Avalon, the max in Pharoah's Tomb etc etc...

    But then there are other casinos where I can't hit a single bonus in anything... Specifically Grand Prive casinos. Bars and Stripes, for instance, which has always produced the bonus round within 30-40 spins for me elsewhere, ate all my money at one of their casinos. Then various other normally reliable games did the same at other GP casinos. And when I did hit a bonus - for instance in Age of Discovery, my first selection was the skull and crossbones, ending the bonus before it had started...

    The only pattern I think I've spotted is this: signing up at a new casino, owned by a group of casinos where you've never played before can be lucrative. But signing up at a new casino owned by a group where you have played before can be the opposite.

    Again, though, there are exceptions to this: I've done well out of all Palace Group casinos.

    So I'm confused. But it really, really doesn't feel random to me: to hit every bonus in one MG casino, and do reliably well from the majority as a new player, and then hit nothing at all in any casino owned by Grand Prive, just doesn't feel like chance....

    So can these places adjust their MG slot odds? Can they
    a) weight things in favour of a brand new player to try to lure them in?
    b) Or spot a player who has won elsewhere within the same group of casinos and weight the slots against them, to recoup their losses?

    Any views much appreciated! (And sorry again if this has been debated before...)
     
  2. Feb 7, 2007
  3. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I asked a Microgaming rep the very same question at ICE and his answer was a categoric "No - operators cannot change the payouts in any way, shape or form.". It's what I'd been told on a couple of occasions by operators I trust, but people will no doubt believe what they choose to believe :D
     
    2 people like this.
  4. Feb 7, 2007
  5. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    Yes, MG slots are the same everywhere - making it a very strong brand.
    However the individual slots do have little difference in payout%.

    "Thunderstruck" is the same no matter where you play it. Same paytable/same reels and same payout%. Any update/adjustments will come to all MG casinos (but there could be some time delay though).

    It is kind of like McDonalds, just opposite: their hamburgers taste of the same crap no matter where you buy them.

    I have said too many times now that it is a shame this does not apply to RTG casinos. It is up to each casino manager to configure the slots and they could be set to a ridiculous low payout% and you will never now what happened to you money before it is too late. And worse of all, whenever I have a bad session I will always suspect I got robbed (in terms of low payout%). While at MG I know it was a fair game.

    Zoozie
     
    3 people like this.
  6. Feb 7, 2007
  7. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    I've had every imaginable scenario run through my head as I play and think about MG slots, but when its all said and done it boils down to dumb luck, good or bad. I've charted their slots and roulette in play mode and for real money and there is no statistical difference.

    Regardless of what anybody can say or prove, luck runs in streaks and clumps - good luck and bad luck. With the RNG's and a fair program i would have a better chance of predicting my wins or losses by the weather or the color of shirt I'm wearing than by a new game or old casino. That's the cold hard conclusion from millions of spins on MG. And I have played every casino I could find that uses their software.

    It just feels different sometimes. The RNG has no clue whether I have bet $37.50 or five cents, or played here before. The program only cares how much I bet because it has to pay me based on #of coins and lines, etc.

    If they were rigged in any way, I guess I'd have to send back all my cashouts just so I could sleep nights (not) :)

    I've noticed that I've never hit a jackpot when betting max coin size, coins and lines. Why? Because I've only done it a few hundred times compared to many thousands of low rolls. Hope that helps.
     
  8. Feb 7, 2007
  9. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    Amen to that. But once again, it's variance (volatility) that's the key. Slots are volatile. Simple as.
     
  10. Feb 7, 2007
  11. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    Have they actually ever changed the payout of a particular slot?
     
  12. Feb 8, 2007
  13. Zoozie

    Zoozie Ueber Meister CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Software Developer
    Location:
    Denmark
    I have no evidence this has been for a 5-reel slots. If they change a slot like "thunderstruck" players will see that the reels or paytable has changed.

    But at one time Avalon re-downloaded for me at all casinos, but since I did not know the reels before, I can not check if anything was changed.

    It takes many hours to find the reels for a 5-reel slot.Thunderstruck+clones are the only one I am really sure I have correct.

    Zoozie
     
  14. Feb 8, 2007
  15. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming!

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Just to confirm what Simmo! has mentioned above. Microgaming and only Microgaming can set the payout odds on the slots games at all of their licensees. The individual casino has no access or ability to do this.

    This was certainly the case when I was working for Ladbrokes in Gibraltar for 5 years from 2000 - 2005, and is still the case now.

    In addition all MGS Casinos are subject to independent audits each and every month by an outside auditor ( PWC )
     
  16. Feb 8, 2007
  17. cheekymonkey

    cheekymonkey Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    Loser
    Location:
    Back at my mums
    One thing I have noticed though Webzcas. At one time you could not open more than 1 MG casino at a time on your PC, but now you can. Does that mean MG have lots of servers now or does each casino house it's own? Originally I thought all MG casinos routed through one server (sorry I'm not very technical actually - so I hope I make sense) at MG?

    PS - Did you use to work with Bernadette? She used to be really generous with hospitality and stuff. I know she's left now, but she was a pleasure to speak to. :D
     
  18. Feb 8, 2007
  19. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming!

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Each casino houses their own casino servers and they are therefore independent of one another. Certainly this is the case for Ladbrokes, 32Red etc.

    That said when new games are rolled out, or updates occur, MGS guys based in SA do jump on all their clients gaming servers to perform said updates. As they are the only ones with full root/admin access to the gaming servers.

    The licensee/casino is only responsible for the PTS ( Player Tracking Servers ) or now known as Casper Servers.

    The Prima Poker Sites are different though. Whereby they are all based in Canada as far as I am aware. Ladbrokes being independent of the prima network or should I say the Microgaming Poker Network - Have their own servers for Ladbrokes Poker which are located in their Gibraltar offices in Europort.
     
    4 people like this.
  20. Feb 8, 2007
  21. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming!

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    Yep sure did :)

    She used to be the Customer Services Manager responsible for VIP Players. She left about a year before I did, to take on the same role with 888, who are also located in the same office building as Ladbrokes. She is still at Cassava as far as I am aware.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Feb 8, 2007
  23. cheekymonkey

    cheekymonkey Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    Loser
    Location:
    Back at my mums
    Thanks for the top info Webzcas!

    Ladbrokes have sooo many problems with their Poker servers. Constantly crashing and lagging and stuff. They must have a real shitty line out of Gibraltar and Spain. They really need to sort it out.
     
  24. Feb 8, 2007
  25. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming!

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    The actual hardware is top notch. Dell EMC Storage with terrabytes of disk space, full redundancy and top of the range kit. The issue is more a software problem as far as I am aware. Due to limitations on how many players that they can actually handle.

    A reliable source of bandwidth used to be a big bone of contention with the gambling firms based on the rock. Even more so, when the likes of 888 and Party relocated there. In fairness, GibTelecom the suppliers of bandwidth have completely overhauled their network in the last few years.

    Ladbrokes Poker was the first poker room to go live with Microgaming's Poker Platform. Indeed, Prima now the MGS Poker Network, was launched after Ladbrokes Poker. It has always been a live testing environment from that respect
     
  26. Feb 8, 2007
  27. tim5ny

    tim5ny Quit Gambling

    As Ed Ware from 32Red has once said before... and I believe it is true! MG software does not make any distinctions or alterations in its outcome depending on the bet size, nor does it check to see if you're playing for .1 cent/spin or $10,000.00/spin. The outcome is the same! .... and I do not believe that individual casinos can vary the odds as far as MG is concerned.
     
  28. Feb 8, 2007
  29. Webzcas

    Webzcas Winter is Coming!

    Occupation:
    Webmaster
    Location:
    Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
    They physically cannot. Even if they wanted to.
     
  30. Feb 8, 2007
  31. saladfingers

    saladfingers Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Management
    Location:
    UK
    Just to say thanks for all the replies, and clearly some of you are very well placed to be able to deny my theory!

    I still find it hard to believe that the streaks I've been on are down to chance, though.

    That one casino, where I hit the bonus on every single slot I played, within 20-30 spins - including a very lucrative Glory of Rome bonus on the first spin... what are the odds on doing that? I won big or biggish on every single game I played... And then in the next casino, I couldn't hit a single bonus.

    Bizarre...
     
  32. Feb 9, 2007
  33. tim5ny

    tim5ny Quit Gambling

    I know what you're saying, but my best and worst experiences have been at the same casino, so it's a matter of timing.
     
  34. Mar 8, 2007
  35. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    Absolutely! I've learned a lot in the last month.
     
  36. Mar 8, 2007
  37. VayCayMom

    VayCayMom Dormant account

    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    usa
    I noticed this about new games too

    Whenever a new game comes out I almost always do very well the first time or two I play, bonus spins right off the bat, big payouts. It is so consistant that now I always save up money to play whenever new games are about to debut because I make good money.
    Anyone else notice this?
     
  38. Mar 8, 2007
  39. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I used to, but at the moment I'm not so sure. That said, so few of the new games have really grabbed my attention for long enough to be honest.
     

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