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Microgaming RTP percentages

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Redbet-Andy, Nov 21, 2012.

    Nov 21, 2012
  1. Redbet-Andy

    Redbet-Andy Dormant account - New account: AndyB-MrGreen

    Occupation:
    Casino and marketing
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi

    A lot of people have been asking about these recently.
    We've been asking Microgaming if we could publish them for a while and they gave us permission yesterday.

    We've only published the RTPs that Microgaming sent us for the games we have.


    Here you go: You must register/login in order to see the link.



    All the best
    Andy
     
    21 people like this.
  2. Nov 21, 2012
  3. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    Thanks a lot Andy.
    Alaxe in Zombieland's RTP is pretty high.

    I'm curious about TDK. Why is it so high while the other Mega Moolah slots that share the same progressives are so low? (ie: Isis Mega Moolah is 88% and TDK is 97%). Wonder if they included the progressives RTP in TDK but with Isis and the original Mega Moolah the % is just for the base game?

    Either way, I'm glad to see that my favorite MG games are all above 96%.
     
  4. Nov 21, 2012
  5. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
    I'm a Canucklehead
    Im gonna guess the stacked wilds and additional features v the mere free spins in the moolah
     
  6. Nov 21, 2012
  7. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    If Mega Moolah is 88% including the progressive RTP % then it's God awful because that would mean that the base game is 85% or less. On the other hand, I'm having a hard time to see that TDK could be 97% for the base game + the progressive RTP %. That would put that game at 100% or above.

    Looks like it's included in one game and not in the other. It's still a bit scary though. Could the progressive RTP be that high? (In the 8%-9% range?)
     
  8. Nov 21, 2012
  9. Redbet-Andy

    Redbet-Andy Dormant account - New account: AndyB-MrGreen

    Occupation:
    Casino and marketing
    Location:
    Malta
    Some of the progressive RTPs in this sheet differ from the original RTPs Microgaming supplied on game release.

    Could be that they were TRTPs or that they have been revised based on a time period/number of rounds.
    Could even be that the RTP they provided on the progressives is for base game only...

    Dunno why they differ to be honest, will see what we can find out...
     
    2 people like this.
  10. Nov 21, 2012
  11. Pulver

    Pulver Senior Member PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Technical
    Location:
    Tellus
    Great post Andy and kudos to Redbet for being open and transparent! :thumbsup:
     
    2 people like this.
  12. Nov 21, 2012
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The value for Thunderstruck is curious. This is one slot that had it's RTP calculated in great detail from the reelstrips, paytable, etc, and at the time came out around 95%. Now it seems MGS have it 1% higher. This is a simple free spins slot, so there were no estimated variables, only exact values.

    Either the mathematical methodology was wrong, or MGS have given us a figure other than the TRTP value.

    It shows they shouldn't have anything to hide, as 96% seems to be the average, slightly higher than players' expectation of 95%.

    They may as well publish the values for all their slots, and on their own MGS site. This too would create a level playing field for operators, and if any do claim they offer a higher RTP than others on MGS games, it will be obvious they are not referring to the TRTP values, but their past months' payouts.
     
    1 person likes this.
  14. Nov 21, 2012
  15. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    I recently analyzed Thunderstruck slot by computer simulation (FYI I have created a Slot Simulator tool to accurately analyze the TRTP and the variance of a large variety of MGS slots) and I noticed that the 95.05% RTP that Zoozie had obtained from You must register/login in order to see the link. was based on Two Hammers paying 2 units. However looking at TS paytable it seems that Two hammers pays 3 units now. This change increases the RTP by 1.02% from 95.05% to 96.07%, closely matching the published TRTP of 96.10%. So the results from my own computer simulations and the published RTP value match to within 0.03% which is close enough to satisfy me (I guess the published 96.10% value is just rounded value from the precise 96.07% value).

    I am not sure whether MGS has increased the payout of Two hammers from 2 to 3 at some point. Perhaps someone can verify what Two hammers used to pay in the past. The other alternative is that when Zoozie analysed Thunderstruck back in 2007 he made an oversight and forgot to set the payout for two hammers correctly, which led to the incorrect 95.05% TRTP value being announced.
     
    4 people like this.
  16. Nov 21, 2012
  17. rainmaker

    rainmaker I'm not a penguin CAG webmeister

    Occupation:
    -
    Location:
    -
    Agreed. Much kudos to Andy and Redbet for posting this. Great :thumbsup:
     
  18. Nov 21, 2012
  19. ThePOGG

    ThePOGG Meister Member webmeister

    Occupation:
    Casino Affiliate
    Location:
    UK
    After pressing Keith about this very issue for the last couple of weeks, i'm a little disappointed to be hearing about the release indirectly :confused:

    Nah not really, i'm just glad you got the thumbs up! Means i don't have to change your rankings :D

    Actually Andy, do you have someone at Microgaming you could put me in contact with? There's a couple of things i'd like discuss with them if possible.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Nov 21, 2012
  21. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This explains the discrepancy mathematically. It would be hard, if not impossible, to determine whether this was an oversight, or MGS increased the payout. I always thought it was THREE scatters that paid 3 units, as well as triggering the free spins. I don't think the matter of 2 units vs 3 is top priority when the playing of 15 free spins x 3 awaits.
     
  22. Nov 21, 2012
  23. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    Hmm, I am not sure why you brought up scatters - I simply meant two hammers as a line win, not as scatter win, paying 3x line bet. So with 9 lines on a 0.90 bet (0.10 per line) it would pay out 0.30 if you got two hammers on one of the paylines and nothing else - rather than 0.20.

    One might be able to find out if MGS has changed the payout by looking for some old Thunderstruck screenshot, for example from the Winner Screenshots thread. If the screenshot happens to include two hammers you can calculate from the total payout whether it paid 2x line bet or 3x line bet.

    If two hammers has paid 3x line bet all along, I am surprised no one spotted this oversight back then, and just took the 95% RTP value as a fact.

    I have also cross-checked the RTPs of some other MG slots (based on the reel strips) and compared them to these kind of RTP lists that Redbet Andy provided. For example, in my own simulations I arrived at 95.46% RTP for Break Da Bank Again before any RTP value for this game was ever published, and now I see that it is listed as 95.43% (the difference can be simply attributed to the inherent inaccuracy involved with the simulation). So it does look like MGS slots are random and the published TRTP values match those that one obtains by calculating the TRTP from knowing the reel layouts.
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Nov 22, 2012
  25. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    No, it isn't hard to determine. In fact I just did it. I just went through some pages in Winner screenshots thread dating back in 2007 and found this Thunderstruck screenshot:
    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/screenshots-o-rama/4193-winner-screenshots-774.html#post161609
    There are only two winning paylines in the screenshot. Line #8 with 5 hammers plus Wild pays 1500x Line bet (0.50) = 750. Line two (two hammers) therefore paid 1.50 as the total win was 751.50. Since the line bet was 0.50, this is 3x line bet.

    So two hammers has paid 3x line bet all along, and there was an error with calculating the RTP for Thunderstruck from the reel strips - by setting the payout for two hammers incorrectly. 96.07% has been the correct RTP for TS all along. Mystery solved :thumbsup:
     
    4 people like this.
  26. Nov 22, 2012
  27. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    This is great to see, but I'm still absolutely bemused why there is this overall cloak and dagger stuff with MG and their RTPs.

    If it's OK for one casino to publish them (and Virgin do as well for their MG slots), why not another? Why don't MG just put the RTP on the damn paytables?

    Also, Virgin list the RTP of Mega Moolah as 94.12%, which would suggest Redbet are displaying the RTP minus the progressive contribution, which appears to be 6% (!).

    As for The Dark Knight, shows as 96.3% at Virgin, which would suggest the 97% figure at RedBet includes the progressive contribution. If we assume the same 6% contribution (which would seem reasonable considering it shares the same progressives as Mega Moolah), that puts the base game at 90.3% :eek2:

    I've eyeballed a few games on Redbet's list and compared them with Virgin's stated RTP - they all match up exactly, certainly the ones I've checked.

    Microgaming RTP percentages: mega.jpg,Nov 22, 2012

    Microgaming RTP percentages: dark.jpg,Nov 22, 2012
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Nov 22, 2012
  29. Cryptic

    Cryptic Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    Alaxe in Zombieland does not match. Redbet = 98.86%, Virgin = 96.55%
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Nov 22, 2012
  31. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    Interesting!

    Either:

    1) Someone has got it wrong

    or

    2) They both have the 'right' figure for what they were given, but MG have changed the RTP somewhere along the line

    I can't think of a third possibility, unless MG gave out different numbers to each casino?
     
  32. Nov 22, 2012
  33. Cryptic

    Cryptic Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    or

    3) MG Slots are configurable
     
  34. Nov 22, 2012
  35. ChopleyIOM

    ChopleyIOM Hearthstone Addict webby

    Occupation:
    Kobold Geomancer
    Location:
    IOM
    Well I didn't include that option because that would go against everything we've ever been told about them, ever.

    (I'm not saying it definitely isn't the case, but I'd be amazed if it was.)
     
  36. Nov 22, 2012
  37. Cryptic

    Cryptic Dormant account

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    UK
    Maybe Redbet-Andy can give his opinion?
     
  38. Nov 23, 2012
  39. xxshepxx

    xxshepxx Senior Member PABnononaccred MM

    Occupation:
    mechanic
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Jeez I'll stay away from mega moolah isis 88% is shocking
     

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