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Microgaming- Orbital BJ really SUCKS!!!-- AVOID at all cost!

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by hparade, Feb 25, 2002.

    Feb 25, 2002
  1. hparade

    hparade Dormant account

    Out of 3000 hands, I can't believe the result could be this:

    lose: 1801 hands(60.03%) ; win: 943 (31.43%)& push: 256 (8.53%)!!
    everyone know when playing strictly with basic strategy, the result should be close to even, but why every time I draw, I bust, the dealer draws, always 21 or comes close; successive high cards or low cards; dealer never bust at 5 or 6; dealer gets multiple blackjacks, 20s when 10 being the up card, when i get 21, the dealer pushes with me etc... all of these sh*t goiug on and repeatedly, and so even I played with small bets and a progressive system, i still falled from 800 to 300, MAD~~!

    Yes, the sample size is not convincing, but sorry,i can't feel alright with this, it's far from acceptable.

    I've heard of people talking about MG's stinking BJ, and mow really got it. They started to pull all those sh*t in once saw someone could play pretty well! Besides BJ, other games maybe biased too since they can do this so well!

    I don't know other's exact experiences, but I am going to take this. I've been playing at Orbital's BJ, so now AVOID at all cost and maybe all other MG casinos' BJ as well!
     
  2. Feb 26, 2002
  3. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    Experienced players know the TRUTH about MGS blackjack. Here's what one very smart bonus hustler had to say: (www.bj21.com)
    Are We So Sure It's a Random
    Game?

    Posted By: Kathleen Turner Overdrive on 20 February 02, 12:18 p.m. in
    response to: Possible MicroGaming RNG bias (Green Baize Vampire)

    By far, my worse long term results are at Microgaming's BJ game.
    I'm ahead a bit, but much lower than what my EV should be. If my
    sessions at Microgaming were limited, I would chalk it up to flux, but
    I've given millions of dollars in action. Looking at my results, I was
    hardly worth the effort.

    If I take into consideration, Microgaming's supposed low edge
    (roughly -.15%), the game becomes even more suspicious.

    It's funny that scarce has pointed out a lack of big wins at
    Microgaming, as I've experienced the same thing--many smallish
    wins, but never a nice big win. I've had big wins at all other
    "reputable" software groups.

    The game plays much like a slot machine IMO. Set to hold a certain
    percentage, and no matter what you do, you will simply pay the piper
    his cut, time after time.

    PWC's audits--which claim the game is random--don't exactly give
    me confidence either. Microgaming, could easily trick PWC, and in
    the wake of Enron, I'm even more skeptical.

    All I know, is that I find Microgaming's BJ game to be much more
    suspicious than the BJ games offered by any of the other major
    suppliers.
     
  4. Feb 26, 2002
  5. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    As quoted by the C3I Pitboss many moons ago...

    "When it's your turn to lose, the dealer will get whatever it takes to win."...

    "The algorithm does not look
    back at your history and decide whether or not you should receive bad cards because of previous good play. The algorithm is a faceless machine that
    treats each hand according to overall wins and losses without regard to identity or skill."
     
  6. Feb 26, 2002
  7. imcasual

    imcasual Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Engineering Design Control
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    Most advice is only as valid as the giver's opinion, regardless of how true they feel they are being. BUT! I've been looking for a posting like this one so here's my two cents.
    1) It's blown me away since I started gaming on line all the kudos directed at Orbital when all I could do was lose, lose, lose! And that insipid little female voice informing me of that fact just irks me more. Fact is, when I play at Orbital I lose.
    2) Uh oh! I also lose (only faster) at Casino on Net; another 'biggee'. I hate the speed at which the blackjack is dealt although I'm learning, too late in the game, which features are configurable at what casinos.
    3) I may be relatively new to online gambling but as with every new venture, I do my homework...daily. I've learned what to play and I've learned how to bet and that's helped me for those inevitable times when I just have to take that emotional, irrational chance on the cards.
    4) and final, I think. I'm not naive enough to think that any venture that makes money is 100% above board. And the watch dog groups that monitor these ventures are only as reliable as their weakest link, particularly money wise. The detailed stats I read, I believe. Price Waterhouse is probably 100% in what they state they have audited, but I'm an accountant, so read the fine print. Their claims are so general that they're really verifying nothing except they looked at the books provided. Period. Plus, take a casino with an excellent monthly payout rate and go back six months. Yeah. 98% is one thing...but when the prior months are 93 and below, I'm going elsewhere.
    5) One more, I fibbed. We owe it to ourselves and each other to share the good and the bad so that we invariably support the 'good guys' who will end up profiting and, ultimately, be in a position to offer us even better odds, should they choose to do so.
    Here's my part: I've won at Captain Cooks, Caribbean Gold, Riverbelle (had big delays with a lousy $200 payout) but my current fav has got to be the Fortune group with Fortune Room being top notch.
    Crazy Vegas ripped me blind, as did Club Dice. I continue to want success from Gaming Club although I can't fathom why. And as far as experiencing those weird dealer-pulls-a-win-out- of-his-posterior? I'm with you all the way, but logic screams that if they're that slick to be in this business making money, can't they do a smoother job of bilking us? It's too obvious a scam to be believed (but I do).
     
  8. Feb 26, 2002
  9. hparade

    hparade Dormant account

    Thank you for the sharings. I hope to know more people's comments about these "BIG" & "REPUTABLE" guys~~~!
     
  10. Feb 26, 2002
  11. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Let's see the proof, Hparade. Refer to your complaint at WOL for details.
     
  12. Feb 26, 2002
  13. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    BTW Dave, you're stirring again. Even you should know that 13SD is so way out as to be practically impossible.

    At least have the decency to take a closer look at the post and try to figure out how reasonable the claim is. There is NO way ANYONE with that kind of a streak could have only lost $500, especially using a progressive betting system.
     
  14. Feb 26, 2002
  15. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    :) Hi Spear!

    I never once validated HParade's claim, but was simply stirring the pot by adding my own input to this controversy. However, I do agree with Kathleen Turner Overdrive's perspective that the game is based on a % payback like a slot machine. I no longer play MGS blackjack at all (except in cases where I need to get a bonus, and all the good games are excluded) but a couple friends of mine remain unconvinced that the game has a set payout, so I asked them to videotape thier play. Both have told me they would do this, but when the time comes to play, they forget all about the video camera, and this pisses the hell out of me, as I need this evidence to prove my case. Otherwise I'm stuck looking at Playcheck records, as the Playcheck system is very slow, to say the least, and when you're trying to put together 1,000,000 hands of bj, this can be a daunting task.

    As far as standard deviation goes: You are absolutely right. 13SD's is virtually impossible.
    In any random system a result out by more than 2 SD's is highly unlikely.

    Remember one standard deviation covers us 68.3% of the time. Two standard deviations cover us 95.44% of the time. Three standard deviations cover us 99.74% of the time, leaving only .26% chance that the result occurred randomly.

    Now let's assume 3SD's.
    Think of 99.74% as the area under the bell curve.
    There is .13% on the left side of the bell curve (this represents a negative flox). There is .13% on the right side of the bell curve. (This represent's a positve flux.)

    THERE IS ABOUT ONE CHANCE IN A THOUSAND THAT ANY RESULT OUT BY 3SD'S IN ONE DIRECTION (positve or negative) WAS THE RESULT OF A RANDOM FLUCTUATION.

    Therefore, Spearmaster, you are absolutely right.
    I do not believe HParade was telling the truth (either that or the figures he posted were inaccurate).

    Very few software developers would rig a game to produce results out by greater than two standard deviations (although don't forget about the Winzard of Odds reviews of IGlobalmedia and MGM Systems.

    However, nothing stops a software developer from rigging the game just below this cutoff.
    There is no regulation, and noone can prove that the results didn't occurr randomly. Unlikely results happen everyday in the real world.
    Just look what happened to you, Spear, playing Sic Bo in a land based casino.

    P.S. Spearmaster - good article for newbies in Gambling Times. Its the first time I've seen one of your articles in print.
     
  16. Feb 26, 2002
  17. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    LOL... I knew you were stirring :)

    While it is of course possible to rig anything, I continue to believe that most games are not rigged, simply because there is no need to.

    BTW, the Iglobalmedia review has been updated, the Wiz thinks it's fair (I asked him to review it again when we passed the Iglobalmedia booth in Vegas last eyar).

    And thanks for the compliments about the article. It was a real treat for me to write for the magazine I literally grew up with. There is supposed to be another one out shortly.

    Today - Gambling Times - next goal: CNN or bust! ;)
     

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