Microgaming implement max bet limit when playing with a bonus(!!)

catapultaudio

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As the title says, Microgaming have added a feature to their flash and download casino clients enabling casino operators to limit the max bet when playing with a bonus. This works across both slots and table games such as blackjack, and is now in operation at 32red - I know this because my dad joined up with them yesterday on my recommendation after I saw they were now offering a no deposit bonus, and he quickly ran up against the £8 per bet limit - I just assumed he had read it in the T&C but he told me no it is actually limited in the software.

I am sure this must be very new or if not 32 red must be one of the only ones to implement this right now, going on how many issues arise because of this exact problem over in the other forums here at CM. I think this is definitely a good thing for everyone concerned!
 

dunover

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It would appear the idiot-proofing has started. Makes people less likely to read the t&c's on other sites they join, and thus more likely to run into disputes along the lines 'that's not fair...'. Wait and see.
 

bpb

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It would appear the idiot-proofing has started. Makes people less likely to read the t&c's on other sites they join, and thus more likely to run into disputes along the lines 'that's not fair...'. Wait and see.

Wow ... just .... wow
 

Mouche12

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It would appear the idiot-proofing has started. Makes people less likely to read the t&c's on other sites they join, and thus more likely to run into disputes along the lines 'that's not fair...'. Wait and see.

I beg to differ. It means there will be no more max bet issues/confiscated winnings. People who have always been reading the T&Cs will not suddenly stop reading them now this has been implemented. Players who never read the T&Cs are at least somewhat protected. All players are now prevented from mistakenly making one single excessive bet (which in itself may have nothing to do with not reading the T&Cs)... good news indeed!

What 'that's not fair' disputes are you referring to dunover?
 

bsilva028

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i also think this is good news
specially for those players that dont read the T&C´s

this protects the players, making them avoid to broke the max bet rule applied by the casinos
 

bpb

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This is only a negative for rogue casinos who seek income from recreational players whom they can freeroll when they break a term by accident. It's also a negative for affiliates who support such rogue casinos, as they also benefit from freerolling. All players and honest operators should applaud this move.

What will be interesting is seeing which casinos opt not to use this feature, because they want to be able to freeroll their customers.
 

IanO

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If this is something new Microgaming have rolled out then I am all for it, but it's news to me if they have.

Different games do have different max possible wagers and it's possible to set those, but not (afaik) for just players using bonuses. Is it possible he was just playing a game that had a natural max bet of £8?

Another reason I am sceptical of a possible misunderstanding.... you say he was betting £8, but got this from their site just now:

There is a maximum stake of 6.25 Chips (or coin equivalent) per bet until the playthrough requirement has been met.
 

dunover

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I beg to differ. It means there will be no more max bet issues/confiscated winnings. People who have always been reading the T&Cs will not suddenly stop reading them now this has been implemented. Players who never read the T&Cs are at least somewhat protected. All players are now prevented from mistakenly making one single excessive bet (which in itself may have nothing to do with not reading the T&Cs)... good news indeed!

What 'that's not fair' disputes are you referring to dunover?

Well the biggest one was obviously the Betfred 7.5k 'mistake' as you saw, very recently. The thread was closed as the OP and her sheep refused to accept that BF were correct in their decision, plus the OP never told us the whole facts. There are numerous others if you take a look under the 'casino bonus complaints' section.
 

dunover

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i also think this is good news
specially for those players that dont read the T&C´s

this protects the players, making them avoid to broke the max bet rule applied by the casinos

Yes, this is my whole point - these players should never join a site unless they do, they are a danger to themselves. If some sites idiot-proof then players will become even more complacent when playing at those who don't and will surely be stung eventually, then will appear here bleating after the event.
 

dunover

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If this is something new Microgaming have rolled out then I am all for it, but it's news to me if they have.

Different games do have different max possible wagers and it's possible to set those, but not (afaik) for just players using bonuses. Is it possible he was just playing a game that had a natural max bet of £8?

Another reason I am sceptical of a possible misunderstanding.... you say he was betting £8, but got this from their site just now:

There is a maximum stake of 6.25 Chips (or coin equivalent) per bet until the playthrough requirement has been met.

Thanks for that, it appears the OP has confused a limit on an individual game with an across-the-board action by MG or 32red. I always said limits and especially those using bonus cash would be extremely difficult to automatically implement on all games across a whole software. Not only that, the sites would have to adjust hundreds of games just to meet the requirement of their latest bonus issue.

Bit of a false dawn, eh Catapultvideo!:oops:
 

catapultaudio

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Actually, just for once, I've managed not to confuse myself :) The term quoted is from the standard £32 for every £10 bonus terms and conditions, NOT the current no deposit bonus t&c which reads:

7. In the interests of fair gaming, there is a limit on the maximum bet size you can place during the playthrough of the no-deposit bonus. This limit is £8.00. Any cash-in derived from bets larger than these limits before playthrough requirements for that bonus have been met will initiate a further playthrough requirement. The value of the cash-in will be added to your Bonus Balance and will be subject to a playthrough of 50x and a maximum bet size of £8.00. Click here for details.

You can read it yourself at this page, you will need to open the t&c bit yourself:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Give me a minute and I'll post some screenshots of it in action for you :)
 

IanO

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I'm still not convinced this is an implimentation by MGS, but will certainly be watching this thread with interest. :)
 

catapultaudio

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In the blackjack shot, notice the max bet size in the box at the top of the screen and the missing chip sizes at the bottom of the window.

In the playboy slot notice the option to change coin size up from 0.05 is greyed out in the second shot making max bet 7.50 , whereas in my own logon I can go up to £15.00 bet.

Believe me now? :p

P.S. Do hope this isn't now some magical co-incidence but i'm 99.9% sure.. I think ;)
 

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wintingo

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As the title says, Microgaming have added a feature to their flash and download casino clients enabling casino operators to limit the max bet when playing with a bonus. This works across both slots and table games such as blackjack, and is now in operation at 32red - I know this because my dad joined up with them yesterday on my recommendation after I saw they were now offering a no deposit bonus, and he quickly ran up against the £8 per bet limit - I just assumed he had read it in the T&C but he told me no it is actually limited in the software.

I am sure this must be very new or if not 32 red must be one of the only ones to implement this right now, going on how many issues arise because of this exact problem over in the other forums here at CM. I think this is definitely a good thing for everyone concerned!

This has nothing to do with Microgaming, its on an operator level. A lot of operators have been doing this for some time, including 32red for their welcome bonuses, there is nothing new here.

Its a sneaky tactic! Effectively the whole game changes when you are betting with and without bonuses. Its mainly in place to limit the exposure the casino has, especially if there is a lot of fake bonus money in the system. The more worrying thing in my eyes is how a lot of casinos have drastically increased wagering requirements over the last few months. Why has no one mentioned this yet??

I have said this before and i'll say it again, casinos want you to play with bonus money, it helps them tie you down and keep you playing longer so you lose. Come play at Wintingo, you can cashout whenever you want and still earn the same bonus money as other sites (more in some cases), you just don't get it up front, you earn it while you play..

P.S. Yes, i am a "frustrated" shill for Wintingo :mad:
 

catapultaudio

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I would take a guess that however this feature works though, it probably won't work for operators using quickfire, and even if it did, would probably just create more confusion than it solves by having the max bet limit imposed in some games and not others ...

Not surprising to see 32 red leading the way with this though, I will say that !
 

catapultaudio

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As the title says, Microgaming have added a feature to their flash and download casino clients enabling casino operators to limit the max bet when playing with a bonus

Totally an operator thing yes, but theres plenty who aren't using it, which is probably even worse than it not being there!
 

dunover

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This has nothing to do with Microgaming, its on an operator level. A lot of operators have been doing this for some time, including 32red for their welcome bonuses, there is nothing new here.

Its a sneaky tactic! Effectively the whole game changes when you are betting with and without bonuses. Its mainly in place to limit the exposure the casino has, especially if there is a lot of fake bonus money in the system. The more worrying thing in my eyes is how a lot of casinos have drastically increased wagering requirements over the last few months. Why has no one mentioned this yet??

I have said this before and i'll say it again, casinos want you to play with bonus money, it helps them tie you down and keep you playing longer so you lose. Come play at Wintingo, you can cashout whenever you want and still earn the same bonus money as other sites (more in some cases), you just don't get it up front, you earn it while you play..

P.S. Yes, i am a "frustrated" shill for Wintingo :mad:

So Ian is correct, not an MG issue implementation.
Yes, you get the Wintingo bonus in CASH as you play at £2 increments, fully withdrawable, I remember.
What exactly do you mean when you state 'the whole game changes'??
 

dunover

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Totally an operator thing yes, but theres plenty who aren't using it, which is probably even worse than it not being there!

I'd have to agree with you there. Either they all do it, or none. Otherwise people will assume and then trip up. Because they DON'T read the t&c's properly.
 

catapultaudio

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So Ian is correct, not an MG issue implementation.

As I understand it the whole software package is developed by MG for use by the operators - they may well have their own web developers etc but for this to work within the MG download client I would say it HAS to be a feature that MG have built in, and the operators can utilise it if they wish... or choose not to in the hope of being in that lovely no-lose situation of keeping deposits if you lose, refusing to pay if you win... ?
 

vinylweatherman

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It's not new, it was in use at Go Wild several years ago. It sets a limit on the max coin selectable, not the max bet, so is pretty crude.

It's needed for the occasional misclicks, such as max bet instead of spin, where no amount of reading and understanding the terms will help.

It should NOT be considered a substitute to reading the terms though, as this feature only safeguards a player against a specific mistake. The motive for bringing in such measures may well be the secondary licensing system coming soon to the UK, coupled with the fact that casinos can no longer hide behind the laws in places like Malta and Gibraltar, which will make it easier for players to make a complaint citing the Unfair Business practices legislation, itself a product of an EU wide directive.

It already appears that some players are managing to force Betfair to pay up some 2 years after the "happy hour" fiasco, and the method being used is that a legal way has been found to bring the matter into UK jurisdiction. This may have concentrated the minds of others who realise that terms and conditions CAN be overturned in court, and the main reason it hasn't been a big problem is the difficulty of bringing a case as a player.

If actual confiscations of balances can be substituted by software safeguards, such as refusal to accept an invalid bet at the time, or dealing with invalid bets by such things as adding the results to a bonus balance with extra WR, players would have far weaker cases, and would be less likely to win in court.

It should be easy to program in a flat refusal to accept a bet over a certain limit, far harder is trying to adjust a bet down to a limit before letting it go through.

One problem is the newer multi provider platforms. It is much harder to program safeguards as they would have to cater for a number of different game providers' systems. Download casinos may for a time be the only ones able to implement such a feature, so players should not rely on it working on Microgaming games presented in multi provider platforms.
 

wintingo

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So Ian is correct, not an MG issue implementation.
Yes, you get the Wintingo bonus in CASH as you play at £2 increments, fully withdrawable, I remember.
What exactly do you mean when you state 'the whole game changes'??

If i make my first deposit and get 100% bonus the bet limits have one setting while the bonus is active. If i make another deposit straight after with no bonus then the bet limits change which to me is a big change, surely players get suspicious of changes like this?

catapultaudio said:
Not surprising to see 32 red leading the way with this though, I will say that !

This is not about protecting players on the terms and conditions by stopping them from betting above the stated limit. This is a restrictive clause which basically says "we know you might win if we give you bonus money but we have found a way to limit our exposure and stop you from winning.
 

catapultaudio

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Blows my mind that this could have been possible for YEARS you say vinylweatherman yet I see complaints about this every other day on every forum on-line ... !

I apologise then if it's indeed not new, but it's certainly the first time I have seen it implemented - even at 32 red when I first joined last year, they didn't have this working then, I know that for sure
 

catapultaudio

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This is not about protecting players on the terms and conditions by stopping them from betting above the stated limit. This is a restrictive clause which basically says "we know you might win if we give you bonus money but we have found a way to limit our exposure and stop you from winning.

Sorry mate but I couldn't disagree more with that statement - if a casino has the term in there t&c anyway meaning that if you bet over £8.00 they will not pay you your winnings, how can a software safeguard preventing you from making this mistake, that will mean you don't get paid, be anything but a benefit to the player? ...

I understand what you are saying, that the max bet limit is there in the first place to prevent people winning big when playing with bonus money, or getting a big hit then grinding out WR etc etc.. but I think that any measure taken to ensure the player is aware of the term before breaking it is a decent thing for the casino to do, no? ..
 
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wintingo

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Sorry mate but I couldn't disagree more with that statement - if a casino has the term in there t&c anyway meaning that if you bet over £8.00 they will not pay you your winnings, how can a software safeguard preventing you from making this mistake, that will mean you don't get paid, be anything but a benefit to the player? ...

I understand what you are saying, that the max bet limit is there in the first place to prevent people winning big when playing with bonus money, or getting a big hit then grinding out WR etc etc.. but I think that any measure taken to ensure the player is aware of the term before breaking it is a decent thing for the casino to do, no? ..

So don't give a bonus then and don't force players to play with bonuses!
 

catapultaudio

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So don't give a bonus then and don't force players to play with bonuses!

And couldn't agree with you more on that :) Just looking over WinTingo now, seem to have missed you guys somehow, but I do like your ethos with regards bonuses, and again I agree that a player should always be able to refuse a bonus if they don't like the t&c.

Thinking I will try wintingo out right now actually :)
 
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