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Question Microgaming: Different TRTP settings?

Discussion in 'Slots Discussion' started by nikantw, Mar 15, 2018.

    Mar 15, 2018
  1. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    I had a question about the Dragon Dance slot. Looking for the TRTP I noticed it was different at Trada than VS. Then I looked on other sites. The TRTP% reported for this game is 96.31% and 96.52% at some casinos and 98.00% at others.

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    Different TRTP even between sister casinos (32red and Dash).
    There are differences in other slots too. Most between VS and the others, with VS being much higher.
     
  2. Mar 15, 2018
  3. Jono777

    Jono777 Meister Member CAG mm4 mm1

    Occupation:
    Self- Employeed
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Probs a similar setup to the Play N Go user end settings matey, Casinos choose the RTP from a specific range.
     
  4. Mar 16, 2018
  5. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    Some more MG TRTP lists I found, I am only posting this for information (hard to find), for sign up or info about the casinos please go to https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-reviews/

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    Mouche12 likes this.
  6. Mar 16, 2018
  7. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Location:
    uk
    And that's why the TRTP should be declared by the provider, 'attached' to the game in either the helpfile or paytable, and NOT left up to the individual casino to hide somewhere on their site, mistype or even round up to the nearest whole number.

    VideoSlots tend to round up the TRTP figures.
     
  8. Mar 16, 2018
  9. Dan.Videoslots

    Dan.Videoslots Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Games Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi Everyone,

    I cant speak on behalf of other casinos, however at Videoslots some of our providers give of the choice of RTP when releasing a new game, we will always choose the highest RTP's when we can, we feel its important that all our players have a great experience when playing at Videoslots :)

    Br,
    Daniel.
     
  10. Mar 16, 2018
  11. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    Now, thanks to UKGC, we know.
    I used to look at the high TRTP MG has on VS and think "wow, MG is great" but now I see that it is more like..... "VS is awesome"! :thumbsup:
     
    Harry_BKK and Dan.Videoslots like this.
  12. Mar 16, 2018
  13. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    I didn't realize Microgaming were a provider, as Play'n Go are, that offered different RTP models??
     
  14. Mar 16, 2018
  15. Dan.Videoslots

    Dan.Videoslots Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Games Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi Dunover,

    I have sent you a PM

    Br,
    Daniel.
     
  16. Mar 16, 2018
  17. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    Yes, what I meant was that Play'n Go for example have personally told me upon asking that their factory RTP (TRTP) is say 96.52% for a game, but operators can request a different math model, say 94.5%. As you said many casinos simply take the game with the highest TRTP figure as made, like yourselves. I didn't realize that Microgaming could also provide different RTP Models to their factory (highest) settings.
     
  18. Mar 16, 2018
  19. funnymunny

    funnymunny Sometimes here, always 'away' webby

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    Isle of Man, Macau or Vegas
    From my experience, they don't.

    What I believe is reflected on websites isn't the RTP that was originally provided (and let's say was tested over 50,000 spins), but is instead a reflection of the RTP that is currently being produced at the individual sites (where the games have possibly now done >1million spins).

    UK Regulations state...

    "3.7 Live RTP monitoring – amended requirement (RTS 5) 3.7.1 The Commission’s requirements on monitoring the live return to player (RTP) performance of games were formalised following the recent testing strategy consultation and came into force on 1 September 2016. For example, the updated strategy makes explicit the requirement for operators hosting games of chance to periodically use the transactional data to calculate the actual RTP and compare it against the designed (advertised) RTP."


    (Bold & underlined part added by me to accentuate the part that could be most relevant & full document is You must register/login in order to see the link.)
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    dunover and theapple like this.
  20. Mar 16, 2018
  21. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
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    Then why are the numbers the same? ;)
    And also, if you look what they say (each casino) they say they post the Theoretical value. They literally say "that is what RTP you will get after millions of spins".
     
  22. Mar 16, 2018
  23. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
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    Location:
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    With respect, though I appreciate you answered dunover's Q, arent these the kinds of answers best posted in the thread since it's a general and germaine query to the thread and not private acct related?
     
    orion and brianmon like this.
  24. Mar 16, 2018
  25. Dan.Videoslots

    Dan.Videoslots Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Games Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi Dionysus,

    I PM'd Dunover in regards to the question as I asked him to explain it further to me because I didn't quite understand what I was being asked. :)

    Br,
    Daniel.
     
    dionysus likes this.
  26. Mar 16, 2018
  27. funnymunny

    funnymunny Sometimes here, always 'away' webby

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    Isle of Man, Macau or Vegas
    But the numbers on each of the sites linked aren't the same, so I'm not sure about your first q :confused:

    Also, if you look at the VideoSlots page & they have a You must register/login in order to see the link. section (at the bottom of the page). I'm afraid I don't agree that it shows what you claim & instead confirms they are displaying a what could be a constantly changing RTP (based upon players and payouts).

    Perhaps this is one for Dan to confirm with regards to Videoslots
     
    dionysus likes this.
  28. Mar 16, 2018
  29. Mark_32Red

    Mark_32Red Affiliate Manager for Accredited Casinos

    Occupation:
    Head of Marketing
    Location:
    32Red Marketing Dpt
    Hi All,

    To my knowledge MG do not offer multiple RTP settings for slots and we have no control nor decision on the RTP's that we offer.

    I suspect the differing RTP on 32Red owned sites is an oversight and I will get that checked and updated.

    Thanks
    Mark
     
    dunover, dionysus and funnymunny like this.
  30. Mar 16, 2018
  31. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    You are wrong in both. VS post both values, Actual and Theoretical, you can change between them with this

    Microgaming: Different TRTP settings?: upload_2018-3-16_17-44-30.jpeg,Mar 16, 2018

    As for the 2nd part, pick a game, any game, and post all 18 numbers in the 11 sites. How about Mega Moolah?
     
  32. Mar 16, 2018
  33. Dan.Videoslots

    Dan.Videoslots Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Games Manager
    Location:
    Malta
    Hi funnymunny,

    As nikantw stated we do supply you with both, the actual RTP of the game and the Theoretical RTP which is based on our players game play.

    Br,

    Daniel.
     
    dionysus likes this.
  34. Mar 16, 2018
  35. funnymunny

    funnymunny Sometimes here, always 'away' webby

    Occupation:
    CEO
    Location:
    Isle of Man, Macau or Vegas


    I apologise - I i didn't realise you were switching between Theoretical and Actual in your statements. (Thanks also to Dan for confirming - my oversight).

    So you're asking why TRTP is different at different sites, right?

    Not wishing to imply anything, but perhaps a confirmation of what RTP & TRTP may help(?)

    The Theoretical RTP is the expected return of the total money bet over an extended number (millions) of plays on the game and expressed as a percentage. Therefore, games with a theoretical RTP value of 98% indicates that 98% of the total money bet on the game is returned to players.

    The Actual RTP is determined by way of periodic analysis of the game outcomes, also expressed as a percentage, to ensure that this remains close to the Theoretical RTP and an indicator that the game continues to function properly, randomly and fairly.

    Due to the random nature of slots, and the variation in what measures are used for each result (e.g. # spins), these results can be different.

    As I have previously said and (32Red / Mark have echoed) from our experience MG do not offer different RTP settings for their games.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2018
    trancemonkey likes this.
  36. Mar 16, 2018
  37. dionysus

    dionysus can turn wine into water CAG MM

    Occupation:
    n/a
    Location:
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    There was a thread explaining RTP and TRTP but dont know how far back, long ago
    Maybe @trancemonkey wants a go at it?
     
  38. Mar 16, 2018
  39. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Location:
    uk
    But the TRTP is supposedly supplied by the game provider. So should be EXACTLY the same on every site.

    I think some of the discrepancies are down to VideoSlots rounding up the TRTP's of MG games to the nearest whole number. It's odd that none of the TRTP's have any decimal part

    It's not going to matter too much with something like Immortal romance which is quoted at 32Red as 96.86% and VideoSlots as 97.0%
    But when you've got Agent jane blonde quoted at 96.1% at 32Red and 97.0% at VideoSlots. That's almost a 1% difference.

    I'm inclined to believe 32Red have the correct figures
     
    nikantw likes this.

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