Question Microgaming: Different TRTP settings?

nikantw

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I had a question about the Dragon Dance slot. Looking for the TRTP I noticed it was different at Trada than VS. Then I looked on other sites. The TRTP% reported for this game is 96.31% and 96.52% at some casinos and 98.00% at others.

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Different TRTP even between sister casinos (32red and Dash).
There are differences in other slots too. Most between VS and the others, with VS being much higher.
 

Jono777

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Probs a similar setup to the Play N Go user end settings matey, Casinos choose the RTP from a specific range.
 

nikantw

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Some more MG TRTP lists I found, I am only posting this for information (hard to find), for sign up or info about the casinos please go to https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-reviews/

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brianmon

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I had a question about the Dragon Dance slot. Looking for the TRTP I noticed it was different at Trada than VS. Then I looked on other sites. The TRTP% reported for this game is 96.31% and 96.52% at some casinos and 98.00% at others.

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Different TRTP even between sister casinos (32red and Dash).
There are differences in other slots too. Most between VS and the others, with VS being much higher.
And that's why the TRTP should be declared by the provider, 'attached' to the game in either the helpfile or paytable, and NOT left up to the individual casino to hide somewhere on their site, mistype or even round up to the nearest whole number.

VideoSlots tend to round up the TRTP figures.
 

dunover

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Yes, what I meant was that Play'n Go for example have personally told me upon asking that their factory RTP (TRTP) is say 96.52% for a game, but operators can request a different math model, say 94.5%. As you said many casinos simply take the game with the highest TRTP figure as made, like yourselves. I didn't realize that Microgaming could also provide different RTP Models to their factory (highest) settings.
 

funnymunny

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Yes, what I meant was that Play'n Go for example have personally told me upon asking that their factory RTP (TRTP) is say 96.52% for a game, but operators can request a different math model, say 94.5%. As you said many casinos simply take the game with the highest TRTP figure as made, like yourselves. I didn't realize that Microgaming could also provide different RTP Models to their factory (highest) settings.
From my experience, they don't.

What I believe is reflected on websites isn't the RTP that was originally provided (and let's say was tested over 50,000 spins), but is instead a reflection of the RTP that is currently being produced at the individual sites (where the games have possibly now done >1million spins).

UK Regulations state...

"3.7 Live RTP monitoring – amended requirement (RTS 5) 3.7.1 The Commission’s requirements on monitoring the live return to player (RTP) performance of games were formalised following the recent testing strategy consultation and came into force on 1 September 2016. For example, the updated strategy makes explicit the requirement for operators hosting games of chance to periodically use the transactional data to calculate the actual RTP and compare it against the designed (advertised) RTP."


(Bold & underlined part added by me to accentuate the part that could be most relevant & full document is
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)
 
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nikantw

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From my experience, they don't.

What I believe is reflected on websites isn't the RTP that was originally provided (and let's say was tested over 50,000 spins), but is instead a reflection of the RTP that is currently being produced at the individual sites (where the games have possibly now done >1million spins).

UK Regulations state...

"3.7 Live RTP monitoring – amended requirement (RTS 5) 3.7.1 The Commission’s requirements on monitoring the live return to player (RTP) performance of games were formalised following the recent testing strategy consultation and came into force on 1 September 2016. For example, the updated strategy makes explicit the requirement for operators hosting games of chance to periodically use the transactional data to calculate the actual RTP and compare it against the designed (advertised) RTP."


(Bold & underlined part added by me to accentuate the part that could be most relevant & full document is
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Then why are the numbers the same? ;)
And also, if you look what they say (each casino) they say they post the Theoretical value. They literally say "that is what RTP you will get after millions of spins".
 

funnymunny

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Then why are the numbers the same? ;)
And also, if you look what they say (each casino) they say they post the Theoretical value. They literally say "that is what RTP you will get after millions of spins".
But the numbers on each of the sites linked aren't the same, so I'm not sure about your first q :confused:

Also, if you look at the VideoSlots page & they have a
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section (at the bottom of the page). I'm afraid I don't agree that it shows what you claim & instead confirms they are displaying a what could be a constantly changing RTP (based upon players and payouts).

Perhaps this is one for Dan to confirm with regards to Videoslots
 

nikantw

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But the numbers on each of the sites linked aren't the same, so I'm not sure about your first q :confused:

Also, if you look at the VideoSlots page & they have a
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section (at the bottom of the page). I'm afraid I don't agree that it shows what you claim & instead confirms they are displaying a what could be a constantly changing RTP (based upon players and payouts).

Perhaps this is one for Dan to confirm with regards to Videoslots
You are wrong in both. VS post both values, Actual and Theoretical, you can change between them with this

upload_2018-3-16_17-44-30.jpeg

As for the 2nd part, pick a game, any game, and post all 18 numbers in the 11 sites. How about Mega Moolah?
 

Dan.Videoslots

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But the numbers on each of the sites linked aren't the same, so I'm not sure about your first q :confused:

Also, if you look at the VideoSlots page & they have a
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section (at the bottom of the page). I'm afraid I don't agree that it shows what you claim & instead confirms they are displaying a what could be a constantly changing RTP (based upon players and payouts).

Perhaps this is one for Dan to confirm with regards to Videoslots
Hi funnymunny,

As nikantw stated we do supply you with both, the actual RTP of the game and the Theoretical RTP which is based on our players game play.

Br,

Daniel.
 

funnymunny

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You are wrong in both. VS post both values, Actual and Theoretical, you can change between them with this

View attachment 89265

As for the 2nd part, pick a game, any game, and post all 18 numbers in the 11 sites. How about Mega Moolah?


I apologise - I i didn't realise you were switching between Theoretical and Actual in your statements. (Thanks also to Dan for confirming - my oversight).

So you're asking why TRTP is different at different sites, right?

Not wishing to imply anything, but perhaps a confirmation of what RTP & TRTP may help(?)

The Theoretical RTP is the expected return of the total money bet over an extended number (millions) of plays on the game and expressed as a percentage. Therefore, games with a theoretical RTP value of 98% indicates that 98% of the total money bet on the game is returned to players.

The Actual RTP is determined by way of periodic analysis of the game outcomes, also expressed as a percentage, to ensure that this remains close to the Theoretical RTP and an indicator that the game continues to function properly, randomly and fairly.

Due to the random nature of slots, and the variation in what measures are used for each result (e.g. # spins), these results can be different.

As I have previously said and (32Red / Mark have echoed) from our experience MG do not offer different RTP settings for their games.
 
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brianmon

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I apologise - I i didn't realise you were switching between Theoretical and Actual in your statements. (Thanks also to Dan for confirming - my oversight).

So you're asking why TRTP is different at different sites, right? TRTP isn't a setting - it's a theoretical value (i.e. what you could get) and (because of the random nature of slots) this number will vary based upon the number of spins played to arrive at the theoretical result.

As I have previously said and (32Red / Mark have echoed) from our experience MG do not offer different RTP settings for their games.
But the TRTP is supposedly supplied by the game provider. So should be EXACTLY the same on every site.

I think some of the discrepancies are down to VideoSlots rounding up the TRTP's of MG games to the nearest whole number. It's odd that none of the TRTP's have any decimal part

It's not going to matter too much with something like Immortal romance which is quoted at 32Red as 96.86% and VideoSlots as 97.0%
But when you've got Agent jane blonde quoted at 96.1% at 32Red and 97.0% at VideoSlots. That's almost a 1% difference.

I'm inclined to believe 32Red have the correct figures
 
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