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Microgaming - Blackjack

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by joestel, Oct 21, 2002.

  1. joestel

    joestel Dormant account

    I have seen a few posts around re the fairness of blackjack at Microgaming sites.
    Well I have tried a few casinos and they are getting much worse in that house bias is increasing.
    I have just played out at Spinpalace and the record shows an appaling lack of fairness as far as I am concerned.
    Now this is not just another grumble from a losing player, on the contrary my winnings so far amount to over $3000 mainly from blackjack.
    But taking my latest session the figures are:
    Losing hands 32 Winning 15 Pushes 11
    The incredible thing is the miraculous saves the dealer makes from seemingly impossible odds!
    Most of the pushes are when player holds 20.
    I think players will make up their own minds re Microgaming, but I say "theres no smoke without fire"
    Caution is strongly advised.
    Anyone have rave reviews to pass on re Microgaming Blackjack?
     
  2. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    Joestel,

    Microgaming's blackjack dealer is invincible.
    Caution is definately advised. I've recorded tens of thousands of hands, and something is very wrong. I lost a higher than normal % of my largest bets. Its possible the software has a smart mode that kicks in to determine a player's betting patterns (IE is the player and bonus hunter or a regular player)

    And don't forget my motto for Microgaming:
    When its your turn to lose, the dealer will do WHATEVER it takes to win.
     
  3. jerryg

    jerryg Dormant account

    What about the PWC reports? Even if the only information they had was the total amount of money in and money out by game, that should be sufficient enough to see if the game is paying out the appropriate percentage.

    Jerry Garner
    This email is not visible to you.
     
  4. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    Once again -- where does PWC get its data?

    Straight from the horse's mouth: Microgaming

    Therefore if Microgaming is running a scam, they are manipulating the data sent to PWC. Perhaps the data is from the PLAY FOR FUN mode, rather than the REAL $$$ mode. Perhaps Microgaming is manufacturing data. Perhaps, shill players are invented who usually win. Or perhaps everything's legit.

    But until surprise back-office audits are conducted, noone can no for sure. PWC can only go by the data it receives. IF the data is skewed to make everything look legit, than PWC has no way of proving otherwise.
     
  5. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    What I can't understand is, if you think it is rigged, or you have some gut feeling about the fairness of the game, why on earth keep playing.
     
  6. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    I keep playing because I have received numerous 50% and 100% bonuses from various MGS sites with 10x or less playthrough requirements. When Paypal disappeared from the scene --- plenty of MGS casinos were offering ridiculously large bonuses for Neteller/Prepaid ATM.

    I now play mostly video poker at these sites. But I hav not stopped playing the bj game completely.
     
  7. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    Even with these free bonuses, I still can't understand why you would drop your own money into a game if you feel it is rigged.

    ~just me opinion

    I play VP & slots at MG casino's & have been for many years. The only thing I have noticed is that these casino's tend to go through dry periods; then again it could be just me ;)





    (Message edited by glodge on December 31, 2002)
     
  8. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    Glodge,
    Even if they rigged the game for a 4% house edge on all bj bets, I would still end up winning. Consider a 100% bonus up to 100 with 10x(d+b) playthrough.

    I buy in for 100 so I must wager 2000 to keep the bonus + winnings. 4% of 2000 = $80. Thats my expected loss. Which means theoretically I should be able to cashin $120. Now of couse with any game of chance, the real world numbers don't match the theoretical numbers on a given day, but rather approach these numbers over the long run. Nevertheless, I'm still a "expected" winner.

    Now take into consideration that most MGS sites give an additional 10 or 15 in addition to the 100% match. This is like icing on the cake.

    So it is probable that a bonus hunter could win with a rigged game. I personally don't think MGS or any other major software developer would risk rigging bj with a 4% advantage on flat bets. This could be easily detected and it would put them right "out of business".

    Thw Wizard of Odds says MGS single deck bj has a house edge of 0.13% (OPTIMAL PLAY) and this edge can be cut even further with a composition dependent strategy. Most MGS casinos run a cashback club. If you eventually get enough points to cash this in, it reduces the edge even further.

    Please note I cannot prove that MGS is running a rigged game. But, if they did, a much more likely scenario is to make the player lose a greater % of his/her largest bets. It would take experts a great deal of exhaustive study to detect something like this, since all other data would seem to indicate a fair game.

    As far as flat bets go, if they were to cheat, they'd have to go about it in a very subtle manner. They can only go so far without being caught. They might be able to get away with exposing the optimal player, who is flat betting, to a house edge of 1.25% instead of 0.13%. It would be very difficult to catch such a slight disadvantage, and even the experts would just attribute these losses to "bad luck" and not rigged software.

    1.25% of 2000 = $25 expected loss.

    Therefore assuming I'm right about this,
    my net profit over the long run for every single one of these deals would be $75 plus the icing on the cake of the usual $10 or 15.

    Also, keep in mind, on a few of these sites, I won some prizes just for playing. On 4 sites, I won 15 free pulls at Major Millions. I managed to win 220 from these free pulls. Also, one one site I won 50 for being at the right place at the right time. The same thing happened on another site for $21.

    All in all -- bonus hunting is extremely lucrative.
     
  9. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    hi dave_r,

    Well you know your BJ ;)

    Thank you for taking the time to further explain your theory. With that said I understand why you keep dropping the cash at MG BJ.

    May lady luck be at your side dave_r!
     
  10. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    Glodge,

    I happen to like your website a lot. Also I like your motto that "Together, we can reshape industry standards." However this slogan is not completely true. While players and honest portal owners can work together to expose the rogue casinos, and help to rid the industry of the corruption, they can only do so much. I have the desire to repeat a quote from the late PT Barnum, but this time I will exercise remarkable restraint.

    Most Portal Owners could care less about players.
    ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS PROFITS. The Meister and Spearmaster represent only a few that I've come in contact with that really gives a damn about players.

    Of the few portal owners that do give a damn, many of them are have no clue who the real crooks are. Your website is in this cateogry.

    You advertise and give rave reviews to 2 casinos that use Elka Systems (Avesta Studios) rigged software. As you know, this is the same software that Hitmob (Mike Craig) tested, and couldn't win a single hand of Jacks or Better Video Poker after playing 40 hands consecutively. You recommend both NetGaming.com and MadBonusCasino.com. Here is this review on your website, dated today:

    Mad Bonus Casino

    By all accounts from a player who took this casino up on their fantastic bonus offer, he is laughing all the way to the bank. On the 2002-12-17 this player deposited $25 & walked away with $4,975US. The following day 2002-12-18 he deposited $150US & did it again on the slots, this time cashing in a cool $5,450US I can only assume he had a really great Christmas :)

    Mad Bonus Casino offer some really great casino games, they have not got the vast range that you find at other casino's, but the games they have are fun to play and are fair. They offer two styles of play, you can either play instantly via their Flash version; this is good for those of you who use a Mac or PC. They also offer a download version for PC. However no matter which way you choose to play at this casino, I think you will find that their games suite will provide some good entertainment. Thier support team is also run very professionally.

    As always please read their Terms, Rules & Conditions prior to depositing and please read their bonus play through requirement.

    Why not try out their free Flash casino games right here at the Gamblers Lodge. - Click Here Now -

    Added: January 1st 2003
    Reviewer: Joel
    (EndQuote)
    How can you attempt to redfine inudtry standards when your recommending and advertising sites that use gaffed software. Have you ever played the bj even in practice mode here? Dealer gets more 21's and bj's than I've ever seen in any software in my life. Its about 10x worse than the worst session I've ever had with Microgaming. Its impossible to win with the bj here. I did play the joker poker and craps here and all seemed ok.
    However there is something still wrong with Jacks Or Better. Why owuld anyone in thier right miknd play here for real money?
     
  11. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    I think I need an online spell checker. Sheesh.
     
  12. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    dave_r

    Notably your retort has come as a shock, using your apt value on integrity issues, one would have appreciated an e-mail in response to your obvious feelings; though I have nothing to hide. However in my defence, I am one of the few portal owners who not only displays my full name & signature on my web site, but also in my profile here, unfortunately the same integrity standard is not shared by you dave_r!

    -------
    profile for dave_r

    Username: Dave_r
    Last Logged In: January 02, 2003
    Registered: October 06, 1999
    Total Posts: 358
    Status: Old Timer

    -------
    profile of Glodge

    Username: Glodge
    Full Name: Joel Mikkelsen
    Last Logged In: January 02, 2003
    Registered: June 01, 2002
    Total Posts: 13
    Status: No Longer Lurking
    Home Page URL: You must register/login in order to see the link.
    Occupation: web developer/webmaster
    Country: Australia
    Sex (M/F): M
    Favorite Online Casino: King Neptunes

    -------

    It's very easy to dish out scathing & a trashing post, all the time hiding behind an anonymous mask. In all honesty, I don't think I've done anything wrong, least of all enough to warrant being trashed here by you.


    Regards

    Joel Mikkelsen ( aka glodge )
     
  13. dave_r

    dave_r Dormant account

    I am not trashing you. I am trashing your decision to advertise those 2 sites that run rigged software. Otherwise, I am happy with your website, and am very impressed that you want to try do your part to help clean up the industry and raise the bar on standards. In retrospect, I should have emailed you. But I wanted to prove a point -- that even some of the good guys simply don't have a clue just what lowlives are out thier rigging software and stealing people's money. Players should avoid all "EcashServices" casinos.

    I also find your decision to recommend CasinoHeat (An RTG that's part of the Ruby Dragon group) to be questionable; although I do admit the group is under new management, and Warren Cloud is no longer there. Apparently the new management has really cleaned up its act, and is now paying almost everyone I know on a regular basis -- and honoring it's terms/conditions. However, even the new management has its blemishes, as seen by a certain Blast21 Grumble at Gambling.com.

    As far as my decision to remain anonymouse, I too have nothing to hide. However, I have chosen to remain anyonymous since certain operations don't take well to being trashed -- most noteably the Golden Palace group of 2 1/2 years ago, that at one time made threats against people who didn't stop publicly bashing thier sites or asking for money that was rightfully thiers.

    Today, I am a player at Golden Palace, something I NEVER ever thought I would be. I have made a significant amount of $$$ bonus hunting at 6 of thier sites. I now consider them a very reliable operation, but I cannot forget thier sins of the past. I still urge anyone except for bonus hunters to boycott them. Nevertheless, there IS money to be made from these sites, and if they ever knew who I was all my accts would be locked permanently.

    It's for the best that I continue to remain anonymous, or otherwise my bonus hunting career will come to an end. Every major software provider would put me on its list of "advantage" players and many ecash providers would find a "reason" to lock me out and not pay me.

    I hope you will continue to suggest ways for casinos to improve service and support. Without government regulation, sometimes a player's only hope of getting thier winnings is to complain to a portal like yours.
     
  14. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Joel, if that was a trashing it was a pretty mild one. DaveR was simply pointing out certain sites that have a bad rep. in case you were not aware of it. I think his intentions were good.
     
  15. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    dave_r,

    I have noted your views in regards to the casino's I promote & can only say that I believe in all honesty that my members & guests who deposits at such venues will be treated fairly & will be paid.

    Fortunately I have a good relationship with Michael Staw & Tom Brailey of RTG, who have resolved & or responded to any questions in the past, both quickly & very professionally.

    As far as any casino I deal with I make it my priority to personally speak with management & to develop a good business relationship with them also.

    Hence if faced with a problem; all casino's experience these, I can personally help mediate a solution on behalf of the member or guest if approached to do so.

    I'm sure you can see that this approach & commitment to my site, members & guests is one that is not commonly found, amongst the run of the mill gambling portals.

    Julie from gambling grumbles; as I do myself, quantifies the necessity for players to read the terms & conditions of play at every casino before depositing. However not matter how many times this sincere advice is given, a large % of players do not read the T&C, rules or promo rules.

    When a problem arises over a T&C, rules & or promo rules, the casino is the first to get trashed, and labelled as being shonkie.

    In closing, this is the last repsonse I'm going to give on this matter, you may however contact me via e-mail if you would like to discuss this further.

    Regards

    Joel Mikkelsen ( glodge ) e-mail addy
    adminATgamblerslodge.com
     
  16. glodge

    glodge Banned User - dodgy back stabber

    jetset,

    Personally I took it as an attack; mild or otherwise. It is about my integrity not yours, that I'm trying to protect here.
    It should have gone to e-mail.

    No offense intended jetset.

    Regards

    Joel
     
  17. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Well, Joel you managed to end on a good "commercial" note on Bryan's site. Good luck and I hope that you or your players never have to eat those words.
     

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