MG Video Poker Endless Options

[Pinababy69]

Hi everyone, I had a question and need some feedback. Waiting for my ClubRouge match tonight at 32Red, so in the meantime I made a $25 deposit at another casino and have it up to almost $100. I'm thinking that I really feel like trying something different, and thought I might see what all the fuss is about re: Video Poker. I've played poker and understand that part, but what I was wondering is what is the best type to play on MG software? There are so many to choose from, I'm sooooo confused, lol. Jacks or Better, Deuces Wild, Power Poker......and I see they even have is it 100 Play Power Poker? My God, the options are endless, lol. I seem to have this feeling that I've seen alot of screenshots of Deuces Wild Power Poker, is that a good one to try? Keep in mind that in three or more years of online gaming, I have NEVER played anything but slots, lol. Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

[Daffy]

Howdy,

I've played them all...I like dueces & joker wild 50-play...one cent...5 coins...$2.50 total. Money seems to last forever with all those wild cards...lol. (You have to play 5 coins to get top payoff).

Good Luck,

the dUck

 

[paul02085]

I would say 1 line JOB. Warning, $100 usually wont last long on VP at max coin.
Good Luck!

 

[johnsteed]

***


Hi "Pinababy69" !

I believe that "Deuces Wild" has 100.77% return (optimal strategy), at least that's what I'm reading while I'm typing this.

For me though, I'd do a combo of what both "Daffy" and "paul02085" had said. If things are going my way, and I get a little ahead (Daffy's way), I'll then switch over to 1-line of JoB at $1.00 per/$5.00 total a throw. You might as well go for the big one!!!

Good luck!



Steed

***

 

[Slotmachine]

I believe that "Deuces Wild" has 100.77% return (optimal strategy), at least that's what I'm reading while I'm typing this.
***

Where'd you get that figure? I don't have the MG VP paytables handy right now, but surely MG casinos couldn't afford a >100% payout as the Viper software will play optimal strategy automatically for you if you wish?

According to the Wizard of Odds, MG Deuces wild 1-line game has but a 96.76% return, whereas the 4- and 10-line Deuces wild has 99.37% return. That was September 2005, I don't know if they've changed the paytables since. The Wizard says the best MG game is Jacks or Better at 99.54% return.

I'm a slots player, so I like the streaky multiline VP's such as 10-line Deuces Wild. I always let the MG software pick the cards to hold for me.

I'm no expert at all on VP so please do correct me if I'm wrong

Cheers,
SM

 

[GrandMaster]

Full pay DW has 100.77% theoretical return. Global Player used to have it and also some other versions with more than 100% payout during happy hours. Some RTG casinos had and may still have full pay DW at the nickel level. Microgaming's single play SW is horrible, but the 4, 10 and 50 play versions are OK wiht 99.37% return.

 

[johnsteed]

***


GrandMaster

Full pay DW has 100.77% theoretical return. Global Player used to have it and also some other versions with more than 100% payout during happy hours. Some RTG casinos had and may still have full pay DW at the nickel level. Microgaming's single play SW is horrible, but the 4, 10 and 50 play versions are OK wiht 99.37% return.

Slotmachine

According to the Wizard of Odds, MG Deuces wild 1-line game has but a 96.76% return, whereas the 4- and 10-line Deuces wild has 99.37% return. That was September 2005, I don't know if they've changed the paytables since. The Wizard says the best MG game is Jacks or Better at 99.54% return.

This is what I read at "The Wizard of Odds" (updated December 6th, 2005) earlier today. Under the Video Poker section, and below the "Playing Strategy" heading, it states...


- Jacks or better simple strategy (return of 99.46%)
- Jacks or better intermediate strategy(return of 99.52%)
- Jacks or better optimal strategy (return of 99.54%)
- "Not so ugly duck" intermediate strategy
- Full pay deuces wild simple strategy (return of 100.71%)
- Full pay deuces wild optimal strategy (return of 100.77%)


Whether or not that applied to MG casinos, I wasn't really sure. I just noted what I had read. I assumed since it had the greatest return (at optimal strategy), it would be the one most recommended. But, upon further research, I see what you're seeing.


MG Jacks or Better. 0.995439*
MG Aces & Eights - 0.985987
MG All American - 0.993756
MG Deuces Wild 1-play - 0.967641
MG Deuces Wild 4-play - 0.993747
MG Joker Wild - 0.985987
MG Deuces & Joker Wild - 0.990677
MG Aces & Faces - 0.992555
MG Double Tens or Better - 0.991388
MG Double-Poker Joker - 0.981007

*Applies to 1,4,10 play


Steed

***

 

[Slotmachine]

I guess Pinababy's original question was about MG VP specifically

Cheers,
SM

 

[johnsteed]

***

slotmachine

I guess Pinababy's original question was about MG VP specifically

LOL, keep doing what you do best "slotmachine"!


***

 

[Slotmachine]

***
LOL, keep doing what you do best "slotmachine"!
***

Huh? I believe my data were correct and pertinent to Pinababy's question?

Cheers,
SM

 

[DarthVader]

There is a presence in the force...


... a presence I've not felt since...

 

[Pinababy69]

Yup Slotmachine, I was asking about MG VP. Thank you to everyone who replied, and thanks for the stats. I haven't even had a chance to try it yet, but think I'm gonna go with the Deuces Wild variety.

 

[tim5ny]

If you are not going to play max bet then Aces + Faces should be your only option on MG. It still carries a good paytable for lesser bets.

 

[caruso]

Yup Slotmachine, I was asking about MG VP. Thank you to everyone who replied, and thanks for the stats. I haven't even had a chance to try it yet, but think I'm gonna go with the Deuces Wild variety.

Just for clarity: Jacks Or Better is your best option, at 99.54%.

Microgaming Deuces Wild is crap: about 99% on single line, and I think 99.37% on multi-line. The variance is also ridiculous, since deuces account for about 4% of the payout. Your $100 will be gone in no time.

Stick with Jacks Or Better.

EDIT: Jesus, Microgaming Deuces Wild single line is actually 96%. What an unreal ripoff. Stay away from that game.

 

[caruso]

That trick that all casinos, including Microgaming, pull on their Deuces Wild games is to downgrade the lower paying hands by seemingly small amounts while upping the higher paying ones by seemingly large amounts. On the single-line version, Microgaming downgrades quads from 5 to 4, while upping the straight flush from 9 to 13. Although it looks a good tradeoff, the quads cut in fact reduces the payout on that hand by fully six percent, while the SF upgrade only adds about one percent. On the multi-line version, the increase in the wild royal and deuce quads gives a chunk back - five percent - which is why overall payout is only one percent or so lower than the full pay format, 99.37% as opposed to 100.76%.

If you want to play Deuces Wild, I recommend you stay far away from Microgaming and play the full pay version at SciFi (RTG). The game only exists at the nickel level, but you'll still need at least $600 to virtually guarentee a royal flush, so it's not like you're not getting action. They used to have the full pay game up to the dollar level - which I played and did very well on - but they pulled it after about three months. Still, perfect play on nickels still gives you 100.76%.

Try to take the time to find games that actually give value for money. If you follow the unfortunate Casinomeister trend and play slots 'til you drop, you'll lose your money very quickly - for which the casinos and affiliates will all be eternally grateful. There are still games out there that give excellent bang for your buck, however. If you combine good games played well with a decent comp rate, you can actually come out ahead - for which the casinos and affilaites will eternally hate you. It's a fabulous tradeoff.

 

[mattysgirl]

I just love video poker! I have played most all MG has to offer. The 2 games I have found to be the most kind to me are:

"Deuces wild 4 play power poker" the stories i have with this game are many, but my best wins would be the 3 royal flushes in 30 min at a $5 bet (2 of them coming in one hand), the royal flush at a $20 bet..now that was just sweet! and 4 deuces on my first hand, so of couse all 4 hands had 4 deuces. Did win a total of $1000 on that hand because I was on a $15 comp and betting $2, but hey no complaints on that one

"Joker Poker 4 play" is the other game I like a lot, hit 5 of a kind many times and 3 royal flushes over a course of 2 days with that game.

In overall many of my good wins on these 2 games were not at the same casino or group of casinos.

mattysgirl

 

[Slotmachine]

Try to take the time to find games that actually give value for money. If you follow the unfortunate Casinomeister trend and play slots 'til you drop, you'll lose your money very quickly - for which the casinos and affiliates will all be eternally grateful. There are still games out there that give excellent bang for your buck, however. If you combine good games played well with a decent comp rate, you can actually come out ahead - for which the casinos and affilaites will eternally hate you. It's a fabulous tradeoff.

It would be interesting to know what the top payout% games are. Thanks for the Sci-Fi tip - one would think it would be a good marketing trick for a casino to have a small-bet game with such a good return. That DW game is still probably profitable for them - the vast majority of players will not play optimal strategy and I suspect the overall true return is significantly less than 100%. Besides, if I were to play at SciFi, I'd get tired of nickle DW pretty soon and try some of their slots (yeah, I know, incurable..), so in the end what I'm saying is that overall the casino will benefit from having such a high return game in their selection.

OK, have we got the top game here, Sci-Fi full pay DW? What other high return games do you guys know of?

 

[paul1]

If you want to play Deuces Wild, I recommend you stay far away from Microgaming and play the full pay version at SciFi (RTG). The game only exists at the nickel level, but you'll still need at least $600 to virtually guarentee a royal flush, so it's not like you're not getting action. They used to have the full pay game up to the dollar level - which I played and did very well on - but they pulled it after about three months. Still, perfect play on nickels still gives you 100.76%.

About six months ago or so, I downloaded several RTGs to look at their different VP schedules. I was actually interested in playing Pick'em, and no one else has that game. But anyway, when I downloaded Windows Casino, ALL their games were FULL PAY. I couldn't believe my eyes, and was scratching my head wondering why they would do that. I'm talking Double Bonus, All American, Pick'Em, and even DWFP. They had DWFP at $5, I kid you not.

Anyway, I was very leery. But I was thinking maybe I could play there with no bonus and not have to worry about getting paid. But I was still leery. Anyway, a few days later, they downgraded all of them so it's a moot point.

I can't help but wonder what that was all about. Must have been a fluke.

But yes, I also noticed SciFi. Their All American is full pay at nickels also. All American is pretty complex, or so it appears to me. And I think FP is about 100.7% just like FPDW.

Unfortunately, I had a bad experience with a certain RTG site in the last few months and even if it is resolved, I will probably never go into one again. I'm scared and the experience was very troubling. The way I feel about it now, I will just play poker and probably give up online casino play forever. With poker, it is a lot less stressful because you usually don't have to worry about the casino getting mad at you for winning. Although I do like video poker, I think I will restrict my play to Vegas trips.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Visit the Wizard

I get my mathematical help from www.wizardofodds.com - there are reviews of the mathematical properties of the games from pretty much all the casino software out there. There is also information on how to calculate the data yourself where various casinos have differing paytables.
I have already constructed an Excel worksheet to calculate the payouts for 52 card games. Decks using wilds or extra jokers (or complex bonus rules)are more difficult, however these can be done too (something I will do if I have any spare time when I am not playing!). I am sure that Excel can be programmed to derive a perfect strategy from this base data for any given deal, although MG does this for you with autohold. The casinos with 100%+ Nickel machines do not have autoplay, so this is probably why they are able to offer full pay on the more complex games, as most players will not play optimal strategy.

 

[caruso]

But anyway, when I downloaded Windows Casino, ALL their games were FULL PAY. I couldn't believe my eyes, and was scratching my head wondering why they would do that. I'm talking Double Bonus, All American, Pick'Em, and even DWFP. They had DWFP at $5, I kid you not...Anyway, a few days later, they downgraded all of them so it's a moot point...I can't help but wonder what that was all about. Must have been a fluke.

No fluke, but a big coincidence if they downgraded the tables just after you checked them out. Windows was full pay up to $5 for as long as I can remember. When I was playing SciFi dollar deuces in early 2003 a friend of mine was playing the same game at Windows, and we were both wondering how they could sustain the $5 level. I concluded that either the game could be fixed or they simply would not pay. The latter, being Windows, was the obvious conclusion. SciFi downgraded everything above nickels very quickly - as you would expect - but Windows had both $1 and $5 up long afterwards.

OK, have we got the top game here, Sci-Fi full pay DW? What other high return games do you guys know of?

The cigar goes to Loose Deuces, same casino and same nickel level. LD is basically DW with quads down to 4 but deuces bumped up to 2500. 100.97% overall with perfect play but with huge volatility, since you're basically playing the Microgaming short-pay con trick DW game until you hit deuces.

 

[paul1]

No fluke, but a big coincidence if they downgraded the tables just after you checked them out. Windows was full pay up to $5 for as long as I can remember. When I was playing SciFi dollar deuces in early 2003 a friend of mine was playing the same game at Windows, and we were both wondering how they could sustain the $5 level. I concluded that either the game could be fixed or they simply would not pay. The latter, being Windows, was the obvious conclusion. SciFi downgraded everything above nickels very quickly - as you would expect - but Windows had both $1 and $5 up long afterwards.


The cigar goes to Loose Deuces, same casino and same nickel level. LD is basically DW with quads down to 4 but deuces bumped up to 2500. 100.97% overall with perfect play but with huge volatility, since you're basically playing the Microgaming short-pay con trick DW game until you hit deuces.

Interesting, regarding Windows. But this was just a few months ago, maybe August, and I never did deposit and play. I just took a look. I was discussing it with a more knowledgeable friend, and I warned that they were kind of on the sh-t list. But I didn't see anything in the forum about them stiffing players. Still, though, I was too leery to check them out. And like I said, within a week of downloading it, they had changed it. I wonder if it would have been as you guess, that there would have been payment problems without taking a bonus. I guess I can only speculate. Doesn't matter now, I guess.

I did not notice the Loose Deuces you mentioned at SciFi. I've never played that before in B&M. But I just looked at it, and it's just as you say. lol Almost a 1% edge with huge variance. But only for nickels. woohoo! lol

I still think I'll stick to holdem at reputable poker rooms. The thing about poker, though, is you have to think, unlike VP or slots where you can just sit there and click mindlessly. Sometimes, I don't want to think.

 

[paul1]

- but Windows had both $1 and $5 up long afterwards.

Think about it. (I'm sure you have). On a $5 machine, FPDW, would be worth $100 an hour. For THAT kind of money, I would consider quitting my job at McDonalds.

And you say it was like that for a long time? Either something just ain't right about that situation, or maybe some smart gamblers did take them to the cleaners for quite awhile and were smart enough not to let anyone else know. I would have liked to been a fly on the wall when their management discussed downgrading it. I wonder what really happened. Either way, it's history now.

 

[caruso]

No smart online gambler would've played $5 DWFP at Windows. Noone. Quarters, maybe. You'd need a 60K roll to virtually guarantee a royal, and even then there's no guarantee of not needing more subsequently. Noone would be fool enough to stick upwards of $100,000 into Windows.

...I hope.

And who knows? Friedmann and Staw are old-school RTG: maybe there are fixes that can be put into the games that Tony might have access to. I can only say that RTG VP is 100% clean from my own experience, but the sums just don't add up: you cannot run a casino with $5 DWFP and survive a month, let alone four years. Either the game is fixed, you don't pay or you go out of business fast.

 

[GrandMaster]

I just had a look at

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.
With a bankroll of $60k you would still have about 20% chance of going bust.

 

[paul1]

And who knows? Friedmann and Staw are old-school RTG: maybe there are fixes that can be put into the games that Tony might have access to. I can only say that RTG VP is 100% clean from my own experience, but the sums just don't add up: you cannot run a casino with $5 DWFP and survive a month, let alone four years. Either the game is fixed, you don't pay or you go out of business fast.

Well this IS very interesting. I'm glad someone else like you noticed this, Caruso. I'm going to bookmark this thread and direct a couple friends to read this. I may be glad that I didn't know about this previously or I may have been sorry. Even though I was leery about it for a week, if the time had gone on for long enough I am sure I would have been more tempted to play. I'm sure I would have played at least for dollars, and I probably would have been sorry, one way or another.

I'd sure like to know if this exact subject is discussed elsewhere in this or another forum. Seems like it would have been if some serious VP players had punted and been stiffed. I wonder if Bob Dancer ever heard about the situation there. Or the Wizard of Odds. Surely there must be a thread somewhere.