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MG Pontoon

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by vinylweatherman, Sep 28, 2006.

    Sep 28, 2006
  1. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I just had a look on the Wizard's site and it seems the edge is either 0.17% or 0.62% if a ten on split Aces is NOT a Pontoon.

    MG rules say that Ace and 10 after split IS Pontoon, and also, unlike the rules on the Wizard's page, the dealer STICKS on a soft 17.

    I'm thinking, "What's the catch", it seems even better than 0.17% House Edge due to the dealer sticking on all 17 hands, AND it has Autoplay!!!!

    Has another nasty rule been sneaked in that makes the game less favourable? Could it be that the rules posted are in error, and Ace/10 after split is NOT Pontoon after all.
     
  2. Sep 28, 2006
  3. The Watchdog

    The Watchdog Dormant account

    Occupation:
    sports, poker, casinos
    Location:
    Costa Rica
    If I am not mistaken

    In Playtech's Pontoon ace-ten (face card) after split is not Pontoon..

    Let me check a couple of sites
     
  4. Sep 28, 2006
  5. The Watchdog

    The Watchdog Dormant account

    Occupation:
    sports, poker, casinos
    Location:
    Costa Rica
    Playtech's Pontoon

    Dealer must hit on soft 17

    When Splitting and receiving a 10/face card and an Ace ITS PONTOON.

    If the customer holds 5 cards not going over 21, automatic win regardless what the dealer is holding. It pays 2 to 1 just as Pontoon.

    ***Info taken from You must register/login in order to see the link. ... by the way this place gets nicer every day!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2006
  6. Sep 28, 2006
  7. KravdraaYvoorg

    KravdraaYvoorg Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Full-time gambler
    Location:
    Montreal
    :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Sep 28, 2006
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Interesting

    I find it hard to believe MG have screwed up, so I am certain there is something else that knocks the house edge back from 0.17% if not split Aces and 10's.

    I wonder if it is implemented in EZBonus properly?
    Classic Blackjack, which has a similar HE to "proper" pontoon is weighted at 2%, and has NO Autoplay.
    If this pontoon has the 0.17% HE, and has autoplay, there could be a few burnt fingers in Casinoland (I don't mean players either:D ).
     
  10. Sep 28, 2006
  11. The Watchdog

    The Watchdog Dormant account

    Occupation:
    sports, poker, casinos
    Location:
    Costa Rica
    You know..

    Probably Pontoon rules change between MGs Casinos...

    I've seen several Playtech ones where in Black Jack the house stands in all 17s and in others they hit on soft 17.

    Its all a matter of management calls regarding configuration.

    Some Casinos may use 8 decks for multihand black jack, others will use 6...
     
  12. Sep 29, 2006
  13. handkey

    handkey Webmeister webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster
    Location:
    NJ
    I tried the microgaming pontoon some days ago without knowing its rules.

    And I decide never play it again because I will lost when I have the same (17,18,19,20)with dealer.:D :D
     
  14. Sep 29, 2006
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Ties Lose


    The ties lose rule IS in "proper" pontoon with HE of 0.17%, the player gains from the 2:1 payout for Pontoon, better than 3:2 payout in regular Blackjack. As there is no dealer up card, strategy is a lot simpler too!

    My volunteer for casino "burnt fingers" may well be Jackpot Factory, who seem to be offering DOUBLE points (I'll have to check the rules).
    If the game really is as good as 0.17% I can see it being quickly excluded from comp points due to it having Autoplay, and being weighted at 2% or even 1% in EZBonus.
    Roxy Palace have "Pontoon Gold" on double points, but they only award one point per $25 on non-slots.

    I have just checked Loyalty Rules and Jackpot Factory have only put the new slots up for double points, HOWEVER, the invitation only VIP Lounge casino has Pontoon GOLD under the standard rule of double points all the time, at 2 points per $10 wagered. On the face of it, this seems to give a player edge overall of 0.03%, tiny, but worth investigating further.
    Pity the Wizard does not explain the calculation for Pontoon, as he presumes dealer hit on soft 17, whereas MG Pontoon has dealer stand on ALL 17!
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2006
  16. Sep 30, 2006
  17. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    it was suggested in my other thread on mg pontoon gold that they also don't allow any draw after splitting aces. that's got to increase ha a lot since i would say that splitting aces lead to a lot of 5-card-tricks.

    edit: since we're discussing HA here, perhaps we should petition michael shackleford or some other mathemetician to calculate HAs factoring in all the possible rules that would affect it. the factors i can think of are:

    splitting aces (ten is pontoon?)
    splitting aces (only one card allowed?)
    double after splitting?
    dealer hit/stick soft 17?
    re-splits?
    # of decks?
    theoretical (as in they would never do such a thing): if player and dealer both have pontoon it pays even money/pushes
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2006
  18. Oct 1, 2006
  19. thelawnet

    thelawnet Dormant account

    Occupation:
    programmer
    Location:
    UK

    Indeed. Player can draw to split aces is +.19% on normal BJ. And that's with no 5-card trick possibility. Obviously with an ace, you're somewhat more likely to get a 5 card trick, so not being able to draw to split aces has got to be more than +.19%, say 0.4%.

    And the hitting soft 17 on normal bj is -0.22%.

    So if they don't let you draw to split aces, that would hurt you more than the stand on soft 17 helps.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Oct 19, 2006
  21. sdaddy

    sdaddy Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona
    The Wizard came out recently saying that the house edge should be 0.12%. You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
  22. Oct 19, 2006
  23. sdaddy

    sdaddy Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona
    Bump

    Just hoping for some feedback here from the earlier posters if they concur the Wizard's latest analysis?
     
  24. Oct 19, 2006
  25. freakin

    freakin Dormant account

    Occupation:
    NOC Technician
    Location:
    Seattle
    I was under the impression that you can't draw after splitting aces.

    This would kill the extra HA that S17 awards
     
  26. Oct 20, 2006
  27. sdaddy

    sdaddy Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona
    Not according to the Wizard. See above.
     
  28. Oct 20, 2006
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Oh My!

    If this is true, then there has been a bit of a cock-up.

    Pontoon Gold has the Autoplay, so unlike Classic Blackjack would be an excellent way to wager to a very low HE.

    There is a real possibility that this could lead to some guaranteed mathematical +HE situations even without bonuses at some MG casinos that have not correctly classified Pontoon. Under EZ Bonus, the Classic BJ is weighted at 2%, but other BJ games at 10%. Also, I saw "double points" on Pontoon Gold for a couple of weeks after launch. This would be 0.2% back on wagering, a -0.08% HE:D

    Something up here, and it might be worth checking that MG have got the autoplay strategy right!
     
  30. Oct 20, 2006
  31. happygobrokey

    happygobrokey Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student of life
    Location:
    canada
    i win more when i have it on autoplay than i do when i play manually, so it is probably properly adapted to its own rules. did we say we saw the autoplay not splitting aces? and reckon that's probably more likely right since allows for doubled 5-card trick rather than a chance at one or two pontoons with no draw after, right?

    right now most people are using mg's for their large sign-ups, betting the wad, then grinding 10-20k spins on french roulette (50% vs. bj 10%) to clear bonuses. 300xB (or 60x on FR at 1.35% HA) could hardly be profitable to grind without doubling up first. if i get money to play some more of these, i might try auto-grinding at pontoon instead of FR. incidentally i've missed doubling up every time so have yet to even bet money at FR.

    anyone chekced the strat table lately? did WoO produce a proper one according to his calculations? pontoon is a sweet game, way fun, low HA, potential for a big score even when flatbetting due to the 2:1 payouts and many doubling situations. hands down my fav casino game.

    ADD: can we simulate/calculate average number of bets/hand, like the amount of times you double versus when you don't? not sure how clear that sounds, but i mean in terms of how many hands to auto-play in order to meet the wr. like if you had a 2000 wr then likely 1900 hands of bj would be enough since some hands are doubled down. any idea what this figure is or how i might find it?
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2006
  32. Oct 20, 2006
  33. bossplayer

    bossplayer Dormant account

    Occupation:
    medical
    Location:
    Kansas
    I had emailed the 'Wizard' when Pontoon hit the scene.

    His first email said he had updated his site since my email. I read this calculation, and doubting it... emailed him back.

    His second email says .39%
     
  34. Oct 20, 2006
  35. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Surprised


    I am surprised to hear the cock-up was the Wizard rather than MG. A .39% HE places it on a par with ordinary BJ games, and classification and autoplay would then be consistent. No neat opportunities then:mad:

    Doubling and grinding is probably classed as bonus abuse anyway, would not matter if it was French Roulette or Pontoon.

    I did a calculation on EZBonus, and the grind is best carried out on Vegas Strip or Atlantic City BJ - takes longer, but even at 10% weighting, the expected value is better than slots. Also, the comp points need to be accounted for.
     
  36. Oct 20, 2006
  37. SomeOtherSucker

    SomeOtherSucker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    director
    Location:
    london
    you seem to have missed the importance of the change at WOO.

    The wizard has not just changed his stated HA for MG pontoon, but for all versions of pontoon (Crypto, RTG and Playtech) as well.
     

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