MG Pontoon

vinylweatherman

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Oct 14, 2004
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I just had a look on the Wizard's site and it seems the edge is either 0.17% or 0.62% if a ten on split Aces is NOT a Pontoon.

MG rules say that Ace and 10 after split IS Pontoon, and also, unlike the rules on the Wizard's page, the dealer STICKS on a soft 17.

I'm thinking, "What's the catch", it seems even better than 0.17% House Edge due to the dealer sticking on all 17 hands, AND it has Autoplay!!!!

Has another nasty rule been sneaked in that makes the game less favourable? Could it be that the rules posted are in error, and Ace/10 after split is NOT Pontoon after all.
 

The Watchdog

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If I am not mistaken

In Playtech's Pontoon ace-ten (face card) after split is not Pontoon..

Let me check a couple of sites
 

The Watchdog

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Costa Rica
Playtech's Pontoon

Dealer must hit on soft 17

When Splitting and receiving a 10/face card and an Ace ITS PONTOON.

If the customer holds 5 cards not going over 21, automatic win regardless what the dealer is holding. It pays 2 to 1 just as Pontoon.

***Info taken from Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) ... by the way this place gets nicer every day!!
 
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vinylweatherman

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Interesting

I find it hard to believe MG have screwed up, so I am certain there is something else that knocks the house edge back from 0.17% if not split Aces and 10's.

I wonder if it is implemented in EZBonus properly?
Classic Blackjack, which has a similar HE to "proper" pontoon is weighted at 2%, and has NO Autoplay.
If this pontoon has the 0.17% HE, and has autoplay, there could be a few burnt fingers in Casinoland (I don't mean players either:D ).
 

The Watchdog

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You know..

Probably Pontoon rules change between MGs Casinos...

I've seen several Playtech ones where in Black Jack the house stands in all 17s and in others they hit on soft 17.

Its all a matter of management calls regarding configuration.

Some Casinos may use 8 decks for multihand black jack, others will use 6...
 

handkey

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Jul 17, 2005
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NJ
I tried the microgaming pontoon some days ago without knowing its rules.

And I decide never play it again because I will lost when I have the same (17,18,19,20)with dealer.:D :D
 

vinylweatherman

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United Kingdom
Ties Lose

I tried the microgaming pontoon some days ago without knowing its rules.

And I decide never play it again because I will lost when I have the same (17,18,19,20)with dealer.:D :D


The ties lose rule IS in "proper" pontoon with HE of 0.17%, the player gains from the 2:1 payout for Pontoon, better than 3:2 payout in regular Blackjack. As there is no dealer up card, strategy is a lot simpler too!

My volunteer for casino "burnt fingers" may well be Jackpot Factory, who seem to be offering DOUBLE points (I'll have to check the rules).
If the game really is as good as 0.17% I can see it being quickly excluded from comp points due to it having Autoplay, and being weighted at 2% or even 1% in EZBonus.
Roxy Palace have "Pontoon Gold" on double points, but they only award one point per $25 on non-slots.

I have just checked Loyalty Rules and Jackpot Factory have only put the new slots up for double points, HOWEVER, the invitation only VIP Lounge casino has Pontoon GOLD under the standard rule of double points all the time, at 2 points per $10 wagered. On the face of it, this seems to give a player edge overall of 0.03%, tiny, but worth investigating further.
Pity the Wizard does not explain the calculation for Pontoon, as he presumes dealer hit on soft 17, whereas MG Pontoon has dealer stand on ALL 17!
 
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happygobrokey

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Jul 24, 2006
Location
canada
it was suggested in my other thread on mg pontoon gold that they also don't allow any draw after splitting aces. that's got to increase ha a lot since i would say that splitting aces lead to a lot of 5-card-tricks.

edit: since we're discussing HA here, perhaps we should petition michael shackleford or some other mathemetician to calculate HAs factoring in all the possible rules that would affect it. the factors i can think of are:

splitting aces (ten is pontoon?)
splitting aces (only one card allowed?)
double after splitting?
dealer hit/stick soft 17?
re-splits?
# of decks?
theoretical (as in they would never do such a thing): if player and dealer both have pontoon it pays even money/pushes
 
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thelawnet

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Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
it was suggested in my other thread on mg pontoon gold that they also don't allow any draw after splitting aces. that's got to increase ha a lot since i would say that splitting aces lead to a lot of 5-card-tricks.


Indeed. Player can draw to split aces is +.19% on normal BJ. And that's with no 5-card trick possibility. Obviously with an ace, you're somewhat more likely to get a 5 card trick, so not being able to draw to split aces has got to be more than +.19%, say 0.4%.

And the hitting soft 17 on normal bj is -0.22%.

So if they don't let you draw to split aces, that would hurt you more than the stand on soft 17 helps.
 

sdaddy

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Arizona
The Wizard came out recently saying that the house edge should be 0.12%.
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Oct. 17, 2006 column
What is the house edge of gold pontoon on the new Microgaming platform?

There are two significant rules changes to the Microgaming pontoon game. First, the dealer stands on soft 17, which is worth 0.50% to the player. Second, there is no drawing to or resplitting of aces, which is worth 0.45% to the dealer. Overall the house edge is a very low 0.12%, with correct strategy, which is indicated in my Microgaming section.
 

sdaddy

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Feb 18, 2005
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Arizona
Bump

Just hoping for some feedback here from the earlier posters if they concur the Wizard's latest analysis?
 

freakin

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Mar 24, 2005
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Seattle
I was under the impression that you can't draw after splitting aces.

This would kill the extra HA that S17 awards
 

vinylweatherman

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United Kingdom
Oh My!

If this is true, then there has been a bit of a cock-up.

Pontoon Gold has the Autoplay, so unlike Classic Blackjack would be an excellent way to wager to a very low HE.

There is a real possibility that this could lead to some guaranteed mathematical +HE situations even without bonuses at some MG casinos that have not correctly classified Pontoon. Under EZ Bonus, the Classic BJ is weighted at 2%, but other BJ games at 10%. Also, I saw "double points" on Pontoon Gold for a couple of weeks after launch. This would be 0.2% back on wagering, a -0.08% HE:D

Something up here, and it might be worth checking that MG have got the autoplay strategy right!
 

happygobrokey

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Jul 24, 2006
Location
canada
i win more when i have it on autoplay than i do when i play manually, so it is probably properly adapted to its own rules. did we say we saw the autoplay not splitting aces? and reckon that's probably more likely right since allows for doubled 5-card trick rather than a chance at one or two pontoons with no draw after, right?

right now most people are using mg's for their large sign-ups, betting the wad, then grinding 10-20k spins on french roulette (50% vs. bj 10%) to clear bonuses. 300xB (or 60x on FR at 1.35% HA) could hardly be profitable to grind without doubling up first. if i get money to play some more of these, i might try auto-grinding at pontoon instead of FR. incidentally i've missed doubling up every time so have yet to even bet money at FR.

anyone chekced the strat table lately? did WoO produce a proper one according to his calculations? pontoon is a sweet game, way fun, low HA, potential for a big score even when flatbetting due to the 2:1 payouts and many doubling situations. hands down my fav casino game.

ADD: can we simulate/calculate average number of bets/hand, like the amount of times you double versus when you don't? not sure how clear that sounds, but i mean in terms of how many hands to auto-play in order to meet the wr. like if you had a 2000 wr then likely 1900 hands of bj would be enough since some hands are doubled down. any idea what this figure is or how i might find it?
 
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bossplayer

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May 22, 2006
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Kansas
I had emailed the 'Wizard' when Pontoon hit the scene.

His first email said he had updated his site since my email. I read this calculation, and doubting it... emailed him back.

His second email says .39%
 

vinylweatherman

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Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Surprised

I had emailed the 'Wizard' when Pontoon hit the scene.

His first email said he had updated his site since my email. I read this calculation, and doubting it... emailed him back.

His second email says .39%


I am surprised to hear the cock-up was the Wizard rather than MG. A .39% HE places it on a par with ordinary BJ games, and classification and autoplay would then be consistent. No neat opportunities then:mad:

Doubling and grinding is probably classed as bonus abuse anyway, would not matter if it was French Roulette or Pontoon.

I did a calculation on EZBonus, and the grind is best carried out on Vegas Strip or Atlantic City BJ - takes longer, but even at 10% weighting, the expected value is better than slots. Also, the comp points need to be accounted for.
 

SomeOtherSucker

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Mar 1, 2004
Location
london
you seem to have missed the importance of the change at WOO.

The wizard has not just changed his stated HA for MG pontoon, but for all versions of pontoon (Crypto, RTG and Playtech) as well.
 
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