Message to Rival White Label Casinos!

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
It's all about Open and Honest and Clear Communication Rival

When we remove everything else it comes down to a few simple business practices...Open, Honest and Clear Communications.

Honesty relates directly to trust. Without it what have you got?

In the case of Rival and their white labels you've got a lot of players facing a world of crap every time they make a withdrawal.

In addition, peeps like Rob and other responsible webmasters who watch out for players, who are open, honest and clear, are having their livelihoods, the food from their table, taken before it is even served.

Rival and their white labels are incompetent goofs. The total lack of respect for players, and many other major screw ups proves one thing...They can't be Honest in their dealings and they should be kicked to the curb.

Time to find the couple of Rivals I have scattered over my 30 odd sites and yank their banners and links.



Cheers

:)

Dave
 

RobWin

closed account
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Location
A Vault!
:) I posted this message only on AGD because i thought that it was especially dedicated to affiliates, not to players.

Players have simply to understand that some WL are continuying to pay fastly and never changed their operating use, what i already precised in this thread few days ago :)

Yes Tradition, you are paying fast if you get your players paid within 48 hours. That is absolutely great and you should be commended for that. Keep up that great service and you will gain a hell of a lot of players at your casino and they will more importantly be "Happy Players"...:thumbsup:
____
____
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
:) I posted this message only on AGD because i thought that it was especially dedicated to affiliates, not to players.

Players have simply to understand that some WL are continuying to pay fastly and never changed their operating use, what i already precised in this thread few days ago :)

Thanks for clarifying. However, I dont really see any WL casinos paying within 1-2 business days and the centralised live support continues to make reference to the 2-5 day withdrawal rule. Wasnt this written or at least recommended by Rival. I understand that Rival recommends the playthru for bonuses so that's where you got such ridiculous terms although each casino has the authority to alter them.

OK, Tradition aside, can players post their experiences at WL casinos lately where they were paid in 48 hours so that we can try to gauge Tradition's statement.

# I havent deposited at a WL casino for over a month and even then it took me nearly 2 weeks to get paid.
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
Players have simply to understand

With all due respect players don't have to understand anything.

You need to understand that most Rival white labels have been kicking their players in the guts with insane delays to payments and general scalawag behaviour for ages.

If some White Labels are maintaining a fast pay-out protocol, that's great.

In hindsight this seems to be the modus operandi of new Rival white labels. Least until they're established, then the delayed payments start.

If your casino is still paying people within industry accepted time frames in 12 months time then your words will mean something.




Cheers

:)

Dave
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
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CAG
MM
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Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
OK, Tradition aside, can players post their experiences at WL casinos lately where they were paid in 48 hours so that we can try to gauge Tradition's statement.
Why not post a poll in the Online Casinos section to see how long players are waiting?
(You'd need to exclude Sloto & Box 24 from the voting).

KK
 

tradition

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Location
malta
KK, it can be a good idea if it's precised as below:

"How long did you wait for your withdrawal, once security documents are sent and accepted?"

This precision is essential because all Rival casinos enforced our security attitude due to chargebacks we have had last weeks. So it's regular now to request documents showing all last credit card deposits signed by player himself before to proceed his cashout, even if this player has had past successfull withdrawals.
 

dcpam39

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Location
East Coast
This precision is essential because all Rival casinos enforced our security attitude due to chargebacks we have had last weeks. So it's regular now to request documents showing all last credit card deposits signed by player himself before to proceed his cashout, even if this player has had past successfull withdrawals.

Thanks for this info, i asked the question on another thread regarding why security documents were being asked by rivals for each casino, and never received an answer.

It is good that RobWin posted on this site what was posted on the affliate website. How affliates are treated is a reflection of (the perception of) how players are treated.


It is obvious to me that the Rivals paying in 5 days plus need a float to pay out withdrawals, no different than when people could "float" checks, :). I am not willing to risk my funds at a casino that is "one paycheck" away from disaster.

Pam
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
KK, it can be a good idea if it's precised as below:

"How long did you wait for your withdrawal, once security documents are sent and accepted?"

This precision is essential because all Rival casinos enforced our security attitude due to chargebacks we have had last weeks. So it's regular now to request documents showing all last credit card deposits signed by player himself before to proceed his cashout, even if this player has had past successfull withdrawals.

Actually, in the case of a regular player who has withdrawn previously, an email should be sent asking for a faxback form that must be submitted before the next withdrawal and not the current one. All it amounts to is an inconvenience and delay for honest players, and it is widely known that all the faxbacks in the world wont stop someone charging back if they really want to. I was told by a casino manager once that casinos seldom succeed in recovering the funds lost.

Another way would be to send an email immediately the player makes a withdrawal request asking for a faxback. In that way, there should be no delay - if the security people cant get it approved etc in 2 days then there is something seriously wrong.

The main problem players are having with these 'security requests' is that they are being asked for 4-5 bus days after the pending period, and then they are made to wait another 4-5 bus days to get paid.....this nonsense has to stop!!

I would love to hear from some CM members who have been paid by Tradition within 48 hours over the past month too, just so we can see it for ourselves.
 

tradition

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Location
malta
lol Nifty : how funny it is :) Tradition precisely send now systematic faxback request because i thought it was the best solution in order to avoid problems. So, for huge deposited amounts, for new credit cards used and for other situations similar, faxback is AUTOMATIC :)

Unfortunately, few players send immediately documents requested... Most of them prefer to wait to have a new withdrawal in order to send us security documents. So, it proved that players doesn't want to understand where is their own interest, even if we precised WHY this new measure apply and WHY their interest is to reply us asap.
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
KK, it can be a good idea if it's precised as below:

"How long did you wait for your withdrawal, once security documents are sent and accepted?"

Well actually that's not a good idea because...

Peeps are waiting 5 days or more after initiating their withdrawal, contacting the WL to ask where their winnings are and get told words to this affect...Oh we sent you an email requesting proof of ID docs did you not get this email?

Of course no email was received. And it's pretty obvious (by the number of posters) that no email was sent to begin with.

Just another of the many stall tactics being used by WL Rival Casinos to screw over players.


Cheers

:)

Dave
 

ksech

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 27, 2007
Location
Here
Excellent post Rob! First, I'm a player, but appreciate the effort and work the affliliates do on their sites to promote these casinos. I read several members sites monthly, to see their perspective of each casino. I am limited on the casinos I can now play at due the the Master Card issue, but I still enjoy playing at Rival when I get funds I can play with.

It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that these white label casinos have no respect for the time and effort these affiliates put in to promote their casinos. It's a reflection of how they will treat the player if they are going to treat the affy badly. You don't go to a party and bash the guests in front of the host. Time and again there has been multiple threads about the newer Rival casinos treating the players badly. Banning players as bonus abusers, refusal/delays in payouts, bad CS... The list goes on and on.

In the last year and a half, these white label casinos seem to have been born faster than rabbits. I would almost dare to compare them to the rogue RTG casinos in some of their delaying tactics. The players are looking for honest casinos to play at. I am not naive enough to NOT realize there ARE the dishonest players out there. BUT, why should a few rotten apples spoil the entertainment of the honest ones?

Without loyal players these casinos cannot survive, the players will just go to another casino which will treat them with respect for their loyalty. Meaning... friendly, helpful CS. Bonuses that have within the realm of completing WRs. Payouts that are relatively fast, a day or 2, IMO, is sufficient.

I now have 4 casinos on my comp (1 MG, 1 RTG and 1 Rival and one I haven't been able to deposit at yet). These casinos have proven, to me as a player, that they are grateful for my patronage. They offer reasonable bonuses (although I seldom use them), their CS is ALWAYS friendly, courteous, and knowledgable, and their payout times are usually within a day or two. Are these casinos the rarities? If they can operate in this manner, why can't they all?
 

incrediblestuff

SearchingForTheHolyGrail!
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Location
Mostly the Netherlands
Excellent post Rob! First, I'm a player, but appreciate the effort and work the affliliates do on their sites to promote these casinos. I read several members sites monthly, to see their perspective of each casino. I am limited on the casinos I can now play at due the the Master Card issue, but I still enjoy playing at Rival when I get funds I can play with.

It seems to me, and this is just my opinion, that these white label casinos have no respect for the time and effort these affiliates put in to promote their casinos. It's a reflection of how they will treat the player if they are going to treat the affy badly. You don't go to a party and bash the guests in front of the host. Time and again there has been multiple threads about the newer Rival casinos treating the players badly. Banning players as bonus abusers, refusal/delays in payouts, bad CS... The list goes on and on.

In the last year and a half, these white label casinos seem to have been born faster than rabbits. I would almost dare to compare them to the rogue RTG casinos in some of their delaying tactics. The players are looking for honest casinos to play at. I am not naive enough to NOT realize there ARE the dishonest players out there. BUT, why should a few rotten apples spoil the entertainment of the honest ones?

Without loyal players these casinos cannot survive, the players will just go to another casino which will treat them with respect for their loyalty. Meaning... friendly, helpful CS. Bonuses that have within the realm of completing WRs. Payouts that are relatively fast, a day or 2, IMO, is sufficient.

I now have 4 casinos on my comp (1 MG, 1 RTG and 1 Rival and one I haven't been able to deposit at yet). These casinos have proven, to me as a player, that they are grateful for my patronage. They offer reasonable bonuses (although I seldom use them), their CS is ALWAYS friendly, courteous, and knowledgable, and their payout times are usually within a day or two. Are these casinos the rarities? If they can operate in this manner, why can't they all?

hmm
The words right out of my mouth:)
Of course what has been said in this thread about acting like they should, untill they have established a nice database of returning players, they apparantly dont feel this way anymore, (and unfortunetely lots of gamblers are addicts and will burn every penny they have)
and im guessing when the casino has such a customer group, of certain numbers, then they would possibly be able to live of them.
which means that other gamblers who win get shown the door, or get stalled so they might reverse etc.
so rogues that have learned a lot from the past could operate in this way.
mainly because over the years, it has been proven time and time again, that there isnt much that can be done against them making a lot of money.
so this would be a natural evolvement for them, if you see what i mean..
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
With all due respect players don't have to understand anything.

You need to understand that most Rival white labels have been kicking their players in the guts with insane delays to payments and general scalawag behaviour for ages.

If some White Labels are maintaining a fast pay-out protocol, that's great.

In hindsight this seems to be the modus operandi of new Rival white labels. Least until they're established, then the delayed payments start.

If your casino is still paying people within industry accepted time frames in 12 months time then your words will mean something.




Cheers

:)

Dave

I agree. The focus should be on the people who put the bread on the table for operators and affiliates - the player community.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
There is a fair bit of lying going on here. A few operators say they would LIKE to pay faster, but are shackled by RIVAL, yet Rival say this is not so, it is the OPERATORS that are stalling, and that once the operator releases payment, Rival will process it without delay. Further, Tradition can pay in 48 hours, yet is a "white label" using the services of the Rival processor. Clearly, ANY of the white labels COULD start paying in 48 hours RIGHT NOW. It seems they have figured out that the best tactic is to blame Rival for the delays, because Rival don't have reps to defend themselves, nor do they usually make statements on such matters. In this respect, Rival have become the victim of their own "hands off" "we are the software provider only" policy, which has allowed operators to blame Rival for problems that are REALLY down to whatever protocols they have instructed Rival to use with their brands.

Naturally, if this is REALLY how the structure is set up, the central player database is even MORE ILLEGAL than I thought, as it is sharing player information between different operators that may REALLY be completely unrelated to each other, in other words, "third parties". To make it LEGAL, players would have to be able to OPT OUT of being placed on the central database, and it should be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the default is "opted in". Neither of these is the case with Rival casinos. The ONLY circumstance where data may be shared without consent is "by order of a law enforcement agency, or a court of law" this would ONLY ever apply where fraud was suspected, and data could NOT be passed around, nor ratings be generated from pooled data, simply based on normal activity, such as opening accounts, depositing, playing with bonuses etc.

Perhaps this could be tested, how about a Rival player requesting that none of their information is shared out to "third parties". Personal data is defined as ANY data that can be used to identify someone, and is not necessarily their name and address. IF a third party Rival casino has been able to identify one of their players as a big winner at a different Rival casino, and bonus bans them, they have had access to personal information from a third party (the other casino), OR the casinos are part of the same group, having NO independence from each other.

Individual statements do seem plausible, but when combined, it doesn't really make sense.
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
There is a fair bit of lying going on here. A few operators say they would LIKE to pay faster, but are shackled by RIVAL, yet Rival say this is not so, it is the OPERATORS that are stalling, and that once the operator releases payment, Rival will process it without delay. Further, Tradition can pay in 48 hours, yet is a "white label" using the services of the Rival processor. Clearly, ANY of the white labels COULD start paying in 48 hours RIGHT NOW. It seems they have figured out that the best tactic is to blame Rival for the delays, because Rival don't have reps to defend themselves, nor do they usually make statements on such matters. In this respect, Rival have become the victim of their own "hands off" "we are the software provider only" policy, which has allowed operators to blame Rival for problems that are REALLY down to whatever protocols they have instructed Rival to use with their brands.

Naturally, if this is REALLY how the structure is set up, the central player database is even MORE ILLEGAL than I thought, as it is sharing player information between different operators that may REALLY be completely unrelated to each other, in other words, "third parties". To make it LEGAL, players would have to be able to OPT OUT of being placed on the central database, and it should be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that the default is "opted in". Neither of these is the case with Rival casinos. The ONLY circumstance where data may be shared without consent is "by order of a law enforcement agency, or a court of law" this would ONLY ever apply where fraud was suspected, and data could NOT be passed around, nor ratings be generated from pooled data, simply based on normal activity, such as opening accounts, depositing, playing with bonuses etc.

Perhaps this could be tested, how about a Rival player requesting that none of their information is shared out to "third parties". Personal data is defined as ANY data that can be used to identify someone, and is not necessarily their name and address. IF a third party Rival casino has been able to identify one of their players as a big winner at a different Rival casino, and bonus bans them, they have had access to personal information from a third party (the other casino), OR the casinos are part of the same group, having NO independence from each other.

Individual statements do seem plausible, but when combined, it doesn't really make sense.

I was going to post the same thing.

One side is lying through their teeth - no doubt.

Either an operator CAN make their own cashout times, or they CANT.

Rival says that they CAN, Tradition Casino says they CAN, other white labels including Vegas Regal say they CANT.

The writing is on the wall. Time to start reading people!
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Why not post a poll in the Online Casinos section to see how long players are waiting?
(You'd need to exclude Sloto & Box 24 from the voting).

KK

Sure, gimme a bit of time. I need to learn how to set up a poll here first. Sorry, just one of a long list of weaknesses.
 

AussieDave

Banned User
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Location
Australia
Rival says that they CAN, Tradition Casino says they CAN, other white labels including Vegas Regal say they CANT.

In TRADITION CASINO, all our players are paid in less than 2 days and we will continue.

the individual casinos have Carte Blanche authority and full discretionary power to place whatever protocols and choices they so decide to make player payments and that affects how fast each one pays it's players.

We are going to bring this time frame down down, but until we do, we can't

There you have it in a nut shell. What you choose to do now is up to you.


Cheers

:)

Dave
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I was going to post the same thing.

One side is lying through their teeth - no doubt.

Either an operator CAN make their own cashout times, or they CANT.

Rival says that they CAN, Tradition Casino says they CAN, other white labels including Vegas Regal say they CANT.

The writing is on the wall. Time to start reading people!

I think it's obvious that all Rival casinos CAN make their own cashout times but most WONT do so probably due the benefits of better cashflow on their part. This has not been aided by the 2-5 day processing rule in Rival Ts and Cs and support has used this to shield them from the demands from many players who are pissed off with this crap.

Actually, most of the Rival casinos I patronised in the past paid me within 3 business days until they changed it to 5 business days citing conformity with the 2-5 day business days rule. Thereafter, save for a couple of occasions it was never 2 business days but rather 5 business days to the last hour.

TBH, I dont really mind the 2-5 business day rule if they had paid within 2 days normally but occasionally slipping to 3-5 days. However, if they cite this rule frequently without giving reasons for the delay then it's entirely their fault. Presently, it seems that 5 days is the norm so whatever happened to 2,3, or 4 days.

Sheesh! Now I will really have to go back and learn how to set up the poll. Damn you KK.:p
 

tradition

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2009
Location
malta
I'd like to precise that all WL from Rival have full right to share information about players due to the fact that all casinos have stated in their terms that casino is owned and operated by Silverstone Overseas Limited, Ingles Manor, Castle Hill Avenue, Kent, Folkestone, United Kingdom (hereafter "Silverstone") a company wholly owned by Bonne Chance NV (hereafter "BC").

FYI, Bonne Chance NV is owned by Rival Gaming.

More, we don't share databasis players : it's wrong. But we share informations about each player regarding banking issue, fraud, duplicate accounts, bonus abuse. This share can exist only if player is registered in minimum 2 different casinos, of course.

Last, regarding withdrawals, each WL can create his own policy, no doubt on it : believe me.

By the way, due to the fact that payments are done by Rival itself, if Rival has problems with the bank issuing payments, each white label is affected by the delay, of course, and we cannot change that unfortunately. We cannot issue our own payments as you know, we're all depending on Rival. Perhaps that's was try to explain Vegal regal, i dunno cause i cannot find his post.
 

rubyroyal

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 9, 2009
Location
malta
Hi everyone,

Just thought i would post this here as i have already done so at AGD.

I want to inform you that several of our USD ewallet wires were blocked by our banking partner on the 9th, 11th and 17th. This is part of the VISA/MC crackdown and seizures. We together with Rival only found out about the block on the 17th. This caused some small delays in certain ewallet processing. All wires have since been resent from our EU bank accounts on the 19th.

Please note, at this time, we can no longer process wires in USD currency. Please be advised that this affects affiliate payments and wire transfers in USD. We are currently working on ways to be able to process USD wires in the very near future.

Only Quicktender payouts should be slightly delayed until today or tomorrow of this week. Our support team has informed inquiring players about the delay and we are working hard on getting these payments released. To date, not many players have been effected and we are talking with each individual player..

Please PM me your details if you would like me to look into your withdrawal.

regards
 

maphesto

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 5, 2009
Location
Sweden
More, we don't share databasis players : it's wrong. But we share informations about each player regarding banking issue, fraud, duplicate accounts, bonus abuse. This share can exist only if player is registered in minimum 2 different casinos, of course.

I appreciate your honesty. You have answered a lot of questions here lately.:thumbsup:

But!

1. Can you understand players frustration when they know that you have all information you need and still they have to send new docs to every single casino?

2. Bonus abuse? As far as we have seen here the abuse is almost only from the casino´s side. I am from Sweden and at many Rival casinos I have higher WR on bonuses than many other countries.

That is a bonus abuse. (the latest one I saw was the 50 free chip with 5 minutes play to meet WR. It was not possible with the original WR and with mine 50x WR it was...:lolup: ) Or I am banned..:rolleyes: ..without reason.

Was it at Ruby Royal?;)

Edit to add: My recent withdrawal at Da Vinci´s Gold was three business days including the email where they asked me for docs and approval of docs. I emailed them immidiately after the withdrawal was done and told them that I wasn´t amused over WL stall tactics. Maybe that helped.

My recent withdrawal at Sloto´cash was quicker BUT when I asked them where my money was they asked me if I didn´t receive the email where they asked me for docs..:rolleyes:
And they are not White Label..

When I deposit at Sloto with my Visa last time the payment goes to same account as it does at several other Rival Casinos:

Pltpay.com/luckyfisher - 1-866-921-7401

Sloto
Rockbet
SlotPower
Club Vegas
DaVinci´s Gold

Is Box24 the only "single" Rival nowadays? Or was it just a temporary thing at Sloto?
 
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