Mayan fortune don't pay..of course.

alita55

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Location
netherlands
Hello there,

I signed up at Mayan fortune and took the free$10 they offer me to claim.
I made it up to $200 and made the playtrough.I was asked to make a $20 deposit to let me withdraw the $200 in my neteller account.So i did.Lost my deposit.Icashed out the $200,send my documents and they where accepted.It would be processed shortly.
Next day my account was locked because i was a bonus abuser.No explanation or something.
Well well well surprise surprise,another casino that tries everything to dont pay.
I deposit many times at Davincis gold,Paradise8,Cocoa,Pantasia.Never cashed out but no problems whatsoever there.Mayan Fortune was new to me so i signed up and took the free $10,i win $200,cashout and they locked my account.
Please,If you dont want that players win,dont offer $10 then.My point is that they just send an email that i am a bonuse abuser so they cant pay me bla bla bla.
Of course like all of you(i think)we deposit and yes ,if they offer some free money,we take it and give it a try.
I really hate this.they take and accept my deposits but if you win with some free money they offer you,you are a bonus abuser,,,,
I am from the netherlands so excuse me for my english but i had to make this post..
I also send a Pm to Robrival to look at my account but no answer back yet
Thanks for reading.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Your english is quite good :)

As I don't use bonuses at Rival casinos I'm not familiar with the terms and conditions. Did they give you any specific terms they think you have broken or reasons why your play was unacceptable? Or simply deny based on a broad term of 'abuse'.

Looking forward to answers and your response from Rob.
Good luck:thumbsup:
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This is the SECOND time Mayan Fortune have done this to a player. Getting $10 up to $200 is LUCKY, there is no known "abuse" ploy that can achieve this with the regularity that makes it an abusers ATM.
Worse, the casino didn't lock out this player after first reaching the $200, BUT enticed a $20 deposit to comply with the criteria for cashing out.
The player did NOT then just "do a runner" by immediately cashing out the $20, but played for a rounded balance and gave the deposit to the casino and just went for the winnings.
This player seems to have had no issues whatsoever with any of the other mentioned, ecept this was the FIRST time they managed to cash out.

So, what this player was doing was ABSOLUTELY FINE, UNTIL the first winning session. IF terms were being routinely breached, this was happening at the others - another case of selective application of the rules when players win? - or worse, no rules breached, just didn't want to pay.

If the $200 is to be confiscated, they ALL deposits are due to be returned as per standard "f u clause" rules, as this player was playing an unfair contract, winnings would have been voided the first time a winning session was made - just happened to be well down the line.

We'll have no BS about these being "different casinos" as we have been previously informed that there is a central shared database of "unwanted" players. They would have known what kind of player this was after the first couple of deposits, they could have taken action then. This looks like a cynical move to extract as many losing deposits as possible till the "abuse" rule had to be invoked after a withdrawal.

If this lot are trying to scare players away from trying a new software brand, this has done the trick for me. This kind of thing used to be seen only with RTG, then we had some MG casinos trying it, and William Hill (crypto).
HYPE, the other newish brand that came to light around the same time, effectively went bust leaving players & affiliates high & dry, and now Rival seems to be another risky place to play if any of their promotions are used.
Given that promotions are the main thing that online casinos use to compete in the market, playing without them is probably not worth it while playing at others WITH their promotions is available.
If they want to attract players without promotions, then these players need a better deal on game payouts and wagering comps - these are depressed because the money goes to fund the promotional aspect, and if players cannot use these they are not getting the same value for money as players that can use promotions.
 

RobRival

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Location
Canada
Hello,

I have messaged the casino manager and the account has been reviewed and an error was indeed made. I have pm'd you with details. Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience.

Rob
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hello,

I have messaged the casino manager and the account has been reviewed and an error was indeed made. I have pm'd you with details. Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience.

Rob

Surely this account has already been "reviewed by the casino manager" BEFORE such drastic (and now public) action was taken against what now appears to be an innocent player?
Was this the SAME "mistake" that featured in the last thread?

Perhaps players should avoid playing there till these mistakes have been ironed out of the system - their experience will then be less stressful.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
These two mistakes seem to be close together in time, and it does make me wonder about how many have occured to people without knowledge of or access to a quality forum.
I just made a small deposit today at another Rival casino, and hate to say, I probably won't deposit again until we see some light. I didn't use a bonus, but that's not the point. As long as casinos offer bonuses they need to treat each player fairly or they probably won't be seeing my business. That doesn't leave me with many options, and my personal opinions of bonus strategy are fairly well known, but I've never been afraid to take a stand and if I have to limit my gaming options for my own self-respect, I will.

Rob has always been open and transparent here... is this a rogue-ish manager that you guys need to reign in? I'd hate to see a bad precedent set that would affect the good name Rival has in all of its other casinos.

Edit: I am slightly concerned that there may be a strategy that is exploitive, but not properly termed against and that Rival may become too accomodating to their own detriment. I'm just not very sharp on the bonus thing.
 

sdaddy

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Arizona
Here we go again. Now we're being told an "error was made" in this latest case of Rival voiding winnings by invoking it's subjective bonus abuse clause.

Players may have given Rival the benefit of the doubt last time, but they're not buying this anymore. Obviously, what these cases have shown is an established policy that's in effect.

Perhaps players should avoid playing there till these mistakes have been ironed out of the system - their experience will then be less stressful.
Agreed. Nothing less than Rival changing its T&Cs and publicly repudiating such practices will now restore player confidence, imo.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Agreed. Nothing less than Rival changing its T&Cs and publicly repudiating such practices will now restore player confidence, imo.

I hope they do, for their sake as well as bonus player's. But I'm keeping an open mind that this is something that can be easily remedied before a whole slew of 'practioners' 'attack' Rival.

I could be all wet; but it seems there is a weakness in the bonus offers, the T&C, or there have been some unfortunately bad management decisions. (I don't consider two complaints to be indicative any more than two wins or losses in a row via RNG:)) but it does pique my interest as I had intended to play @Rival more.

I'm more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

I have noticed the 'tightening up' of offers there lately, that's what makes me think they may be getting 'hit'. But again, I could be all wet.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I hope they do, for their sake as well as bonus player's. But I'm keeping an open mind that this is something that can be easily remedied before a whole slew of 'practioners' 'attack' Rival.

I could be all wet; but it seems there is a weakness in the bonus offers, the T&C, or there have been some unfortunately bad management decisions. (I don't consider two complaints to be indicative any more than two wins or losses in a row via RNG:)) but it does pique my interest as I had intended to play @Rival more.

I'm more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

I have noticed the 'tightening up' of offers there lately, that's what makes me think they may be getting 'hit'. But again, I could be all wet.

The exploited weakness theory explanation might work, but THIS player turned a $10 bonus into $200, and then did NOT exploit the deposit rules by immediately withdrawing the $220, but "gave" the $20 back to the casino and just took the $200, and this probably didn't even cover the losses at the others.
The ONLY thing this player seems to have done is open accounts at 4 Rival casinos, is this against the T & C, if not, it is no more "wrong" than a player opening accounts at 4 separate Microgaming casinos (assuming there is nothing on the website that indicates all the Rival casinos count as one single "group", such as Microgaming's Jackpot Factory's 4 casinos.

Two complaints might indicate that 3 players have been "screwed" with no idea how to further their complaint. This is based on the recent survey that showed around 40% of active players visited this, and/or other, fora.
They may have been posted close together, but they may NOT have happened this close together.
 

RobRival

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Location
Canada
Hello everyone,

First please let me apologize for the casino. The two grievances on this message board are linked to a hefty flood of players who managed to bypass certain security measures and clearly abused promotions. This exploit has been fixed but a large number of players got through in a very short time span. Unfortunately, an overwhelmed support staff made a number of mistakes with legitimate accounts. The casino manager has informed me that he continues to actively review all accounts and ensures legitimate players will be paid, if they have not been already.


Kind Regards,
Rob
Rival Technical Support
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
And here we have it again... it looks like some bonus forums or websites have instructed 'players' that there were some 'easy pickins' available at Rival casinos. Members and readers of the sites made a 'raid' on the casinos and in damage control a few legitimate players got caught in the net.
In the past these occurences have bankrupted good operations and forced many (CR) to consolidate into groups.

It's the perenial conundrum for the casinos... how can we attract new players and keep our current players happy without offering bonuses that may be susceptable to exploitation?

From earlier episodes I think a major portion of the problem can be traced to casino/affiliate relations, and it may be time for a new breed of affiliate and affiliate advocacy. A self policing affiliate group, with market power, that only deals with reputable casinos and who offers pressures and incentives to it's members to 'out' the rogue affiliates.

Wholly new relationships and 'contracts' would have to be developed between casinos and affiliates... and I have no doubt that the integrity, brainpower, and innovation needed resides right here on this board. At least for the impetus. I don't have any experience in it and simply offer this as an idea or possibly a challenge.
 

alita55

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Location
netherlands
Hello guys,

Thanks for all the response.Good to have a board like this.
In first place i gave it up,thought how can i fight against this casino.
You know the emails you get:The casinos decision is final.
Hate to read that line.
then i saw the other thread here in this forum and thought lets try to make this problem public and see where it goes.
It seems to easy to call me a bonus abuser without giving me an explanation why.As i said already i deposit frequently at 3 other rival casinos and never cashed out.In fact i almost never take bonuses because i dont like the playtrough hehe you all know.
but if they offer a free $10 to claim,of course you take it.
Got a message from Rivalrob that there was mistake.
I have my doubts about it but i wanna give them a chance but also a little warning.
Dont treat players like this because you will lose them.
If i get the money,i will think to redeposit again at Rival,because i like the software.But it must come from 2 ways.
Players deposit,casinos payout when players make a withdraw.
Thats the way players coming back and the way casinos make money .
I hope this was a coincidence and that it will not happen anymore with nobody.
Thanks again.
 

alita55

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Location
netherlands
Got a message from Robrival that i coud withdraw the full $200.
Of course have to wait another 2 days before it will be processed.
Let you all know if i get paid.
Cheers!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Really, all this fuss over $10 - This player should not have even been "in the frame" for an audit, let alone get mistaken for one of these "raiders".

If there were such huge problems with players ripping the guts out of the STANDARD SUB, WHY have I just received this:confused:

Not Mayan Fortune, but one of theirs all the same. I would like to know what this "security glitch" was that allows a player to "abuse" a bonus.
If this was a SOFTWARE ERROR, rather than a T & C "brainfart", we need Rival to come clean. It doesn't matter now it's fixed, but this is highly important as when software errors favour the CASINO it is a different matter - nothing happens (apart for the old excuse about how luck is fickle & the RNG is fair.etc.etc) till PLAYERS show irrefutable proof in public that something "aint right", as in the English Harbour and Mansion VP cases.
 

alita55

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Location
netherlands
Haha,thanks Vinyl,you just make the right point,all that fuss starting with $10.

But that makes me also angry a bit,before taking only this free $10 i deposit and deposit and deposit....
Always excuses....for god sake,just pay the player,doesnt matter if he deposit or takes a bonus.
To make a deposit seems never be the problem but if a player wins...
 

sdaddy

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Arizona
The two grievances on this message board are linked to a hefty flood of players who managed to bypass certain security measures and clearly abused promotions. This exploit has been fixed but a large number of players got through in a very short time span. Unfortunately, an overwhelmed support staff made a number of mistakes with legitimate accounts. The casino manager has informed me that he continues to actively review all accounts and ensures legitimate players will be paid, if they have not been already.
And again, I say to you that your group must address any undesirable play or exploitive technique by players who use your bonuses by drawing up SPECIFIC rules against such things in your T&Cs. The problem is that you insist on keeping your subjective bonus abuse policy and using that as a catch-all for all these cases. This will not wash. Players will opt for the casinos which have all their T&Cs clearly laid out, and avoid the stress of whether or not their play has been "legitimate" every time they cash out.
 

RobRival

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Location
Canada
Not Mayan Fortune, but one of theirs all the same.

Hi there,

Just to clarify, Mayan Fortune and Sloto Cash are under different management companies and as such the marketing operations are completely separate. Sloto, as the email graphic you post shows, is run by DeckMedia while Mayan Fortune is managed by Bonne Chance NV. Each of which are independent of Rival Gaming.

Regards,

Rob
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi there,

Just to clarify, Mayan Fortune and Sloto Cash are under different management companies and as such the marketing operations are completely separate. Sloto, as the email graphic you post shows, is run by DeckMedia while Mayan Fortune is managed by Bonne Chance NV. Each of which are independent of Rival Gaming.

Regards,

Rob

So, DeckMedia actually run the joint!!! The invite looked line spam to me, and also it was tagged as spam by Virgin Media's filters.
I have had other "spam" from DeckMedia, so what else do they run?

I thought another member here was told that all Rival casinos have a central player database, surely if these are totally separate companies running these, and are indepentent of Rival, it means they should NOT be feeding player details to a central database - this sharing with other independent casino operators is a breach of privacy - something many casinos say they never do, but we then find out the opposite.

How did DeckMedia get my information in the first place, I have NEVER played at ANY Rival powered casino. The invite looks as though they even know a little about my online gaming habits, as this is a fast track offer to VIP status, and I doubt they will be throwing this at everybody.

The question about how players "exploited" the bonus in a mass raid has been avoided, was it simply badly worded T & C, or an issue with the software that allowed the wagering system to be abused by those in the know.

Since players are having winnings confiscated, can we assume that the affiliates responsible for sending these "raiders" to Mayan Fortune will have their commissions confiscated.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
Really, all this fuss over $10 - This player should not have even been "in the frame" for an audit, let alone get mistaken for one of these "raiders".

If there were such huge problems with players ripping the guts out of the STANDARD SUB, WHY have I just received this:confused:

Not Mayan Fortune, but one of theirs all the same. I would like to know what this "security glitch" was that allows a player to "abuse" a bonus.
If this was a SOFTWARE ERROR, rather than a T & C "brainfart", we need Rival to come clean. It doesn't matter now it's fixed, but this is highly important as when software errors favour the CASINO it is a different matter - nothing happens (apart for the old excuse about how luck is fickle & the RNG is fair.etc.etc) till PLAYERS show irrefutable proof in public that something "aint right", as in the English Harbour and Mansion VP cases.

Regarding the picture attached to this message, it is interesting to note that Deckmedia's address is in one the less savoury parts of Manchester, and they are advertising a casino licensed in Curacao, which is not illegal.
 

me_and_ed

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
CAG
MM
Joined
Jun 2, 2006
Location
Vancouver
So, DeckMedia actually run the joint!!! The invite looked line spam to me, and also it was tagged as spam by Virgin Media's filters.
I have had other "spam" from DeckMedia, so what else do they run?

I thought another member here was told that all Rival casinos have a central player database, surely if these are totally separate companies running these, and are indepentent of Rival, it means they should NOT be feeding player details to a central database - this sharing with other independent casino operators is a breach of privacy - something many casinos say they never do, but we then find out the opposite.

How did DeckMedia get my information in the first place, I have NEVER played at ANY Rival powered casino. The invite looks as though they even know a little about my online gaming habits, as this is a fast track offer to VIP status, and I doubt they will be throwing this at everybody.

The question about how players "exploited" the bonus in a mass raid has been avoided, was it simply badly worded T & C, or an issue with the software that allowed the wagering system to be abused by those in the know.

Since players are having winnings confiscated, can we assume that the affiliates responsible for sending these "raiders" to Mayan Fortune will have their commissions confiscated.



They must be central, Rival locked my accts at Paradise, Cocoa and Davinci's, I went to play at Mayan and SlotO and both got tlocked there as well.
 

RobRival

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 16, 2006
Location
Canada
Hi,

A quick run through of VWM's questions:

1. To clarify, DeckMedia operates SlotoCash Casino and no other Rival Powered property.

2. On the request of its clients, Rival has provided a system that automatically deactivates promotion eligibility upon certain criteria being met. This is done automatically without the sharing of actual information between any Rival clients. As far as I understand, Playtech has had a similar system in place for a while now, and MG clients have apparently been pushing for a comparable system.

3. You're welcome to contact DeckMedia directly with respect to how 'they got your information'. I am not privy to this info. I can contact the manager if you don't hear back from them if you wish.

4. Regrettably I can not disclose the specifics of how players bypassed security without revealing vital security-related information. I hope you can understand this position. What I can do however is fully assure you that this incident had nothing to do with the front-end game software.

5. I can not speak to the affiliate commission question. I imagine this will be handled internally by the Mayan Fortune affiliate manager. I will PM you with any relevant information.


Kind Regards,



Rob
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi,

A quick run through of VWM's questions:

1. To clarify, DeckMedia operates SlotoCash Casino and no other Rival Powered property.

2. On the request of its clients, Rival has provided a system that automatically deactivates promotion eligibility upon certain criteria being met. This is done automatically without the sharing of actual information between any Rival clients. As far as I understand, Playtech has had a similar system in place for a while now, and MG clients have apparently been pushing for a comparable system.

3. You're welcome to contact DeckMedia directly with respect to how 'they got your information'. I am not privy to this info. I can contact the manager if you don't hear back from them if you wish.

4. Regrettably I can not disclose the specifics of how players bypassed security without revealing vital security-related information. I hope you can understand this position. What I can do however is fully assure you that this incident had nothing to do with the front-end game software.

5. I can not speak to the affiliate commission question. I imagine this will be handled internally by the Mayan Fortune affiliate manager. I will PM you with any relevant information.


Kind Regards,



Rob

Well, point 2 is pretty much an admission that this "mythical" player blacklist is REAL, and what's more, not just confined to Playtech. It seems ALL casinos are trying to set this up, even the MG. I get the impression eCogra think the idea of a central blacklist is a myth, based on what rogue operators often got up to.
This begs the question that an individual casino can hold a grudge against a player, or wrongly accuse him of some wrongdoing, and can then damage their reputation over the entire software network.
It seems more than "promotional eligibility" that is at stake, players are having winnings confiscated too! The examples here both show that a mistake was made, but do these players now have incorrect information stored about them on the central database.

This could be something that can be taken up with the UK Gambling Commission, as it might be illegal to do this without players having the right to see the information held about them. Credit companies have a central database run by the likes of Experian that can help them decide if customers are eligible for credit cards or loans. The important point though is that we have the right to a copy of this record, and mistakes ARE found.

Although this right could only be enforced if the database was within the EU, the Gaming Commission might consider this as a criteria for it's advertising whitelist. If Curaco are not whitelisted, then the E-mail I received is illegal advertising of an online casino directly to a UK potential player. This WOULD be illegal since Deckmedia sent the invite, not the casino, and DeckMedia give a UK (Manchester) address.
The Gambling Commission are not interested in which software, it is Licencing juristiction that matters. If SlotoCash was based in Malta, it would be OK, similarly if an offshore website promoted it via me browsing to the website of my own accord, this too is OK.
ANY casino that spams UK players directly, and is not on the whitelist, will fall foul of this, and often they seem to have the holding company right under the noses of the UK authorities, even though the servers are based offshore.


With point 4, this looks like yet another raid based on account/identity fraud, rather than software bugs, otherwise it would be safe to disclose a fixed bug.
Since so many players conducted this raid, no doubt the full story is on one of the "whoring" forums, and even though it no longer works, the details will still be available, and from what RobRival says, this could STILL compromise future security.
CasinoBonusWhores is currently featuring "whoring" information for Mayan Fortune, but it is nothing more than strategy, nothing to do with fraud.
RobRival might want to suggest having the software block access to certain games when bonus funds are in the account, Baccarat for example;)
This site and forum gives precise details on how to play particular bonuses, even down to example screenshots. Visitors to this site would indeed play pretty much the exact games, same stakes, same moves to the grinding stage if they win. They are not "connected fraudulent accounts" though, they are independent individuals who have followed a "recipe" on a forum just as a chef might follow a recipie to construct a well known dish. The only connection these players would have is that they visit the same forum. All it takes is ONE clever player who feels like sharing a mathematical strategy, and you have a "raid" that can indeed cripple a particular casino who has been careless with T & C, or overenthusiastic with an offer to steal market share.
They are currently bragging about how they are getting minted on the Mayan Fortune Monthly reload, so expect a few more complaints if a few "innocents" have trouble with the monthly bonus.

Casinos need to find a way to NOT confiscate winnings, this is the WORST thing they can do, and is the one thing that does the most damage to trust between players and casinos. It is time the software developers designed the software to properly cater for bonues, by having it ENFORCE the rules so players simply CANNOT ever be in a position to have winnings confiscated. Developers need to stop being lazy, and do some research to see what exploits are being discussed, and design them out of the software before trouble arrives.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Hello everyone,

First please let me apologize for the casino. The two grievances on this message board are linked to a hefty flood of players who managed to bypass certain security measures and clearly abused promotions. This exploit has been fixed but a large number of players got through in a very short time span. Unfortunately, an overwhelmed support staff made a number of mistakes with legitimate accounts. The casino manager has informed me that he continues to actively review all accounts and ensures legitimate players will be paid, if they have not been already.


Kind Regards,
Rob
Rival Technical Support

OK, let's get back on track then. While there will always be bonus hunters which casinos do not welcome, I am afraid that we will have to revisit the term 'bonus abuse' yet again. Unless the Terms and Conditions clearly spell them out, you cannot simply state that a player has abused the bonus if he did not break any of the Ts and Cs. So what if you consider that he has abused the bonus. You still have to cough up because you did not define them well in the first place. Furthermore, I cant understand how it was possible for those you considered to be 'bonus abusers' to be lumped with legitimate players. It would seem that once a player takes out a bonus you will assume that he is a bonus abuser and will deny his withdrawal if he does happen to win.

I hope common sense prevails and that all players, whether you (think) they have abused the bonuses, are paid. You may deny granting bonuses, or even access in extreme cases, to them in future. It's a lesson to be learned. Word your Ts and Cs carefully so that there wont be any squabbles later on.
 
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