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Mayan fortune don't pay..of course.

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by alita55, Sep 22, 2007.

    Sep 22, 2007
  1. alita55

    alita55 Dormant account

    Location:
    netherlands
    Hello there,

    I signed up at Mayan fortune and took the free$10 they offer me to claim.
    I made it up to $200 and made the playtrough.I was asked to make a $20 deposit to let me withdraw the $200 in my neteller account.So i did.Lost my deposit.Icashed out the $200,send my documents and they where accepted.It would be processed shortly.
    Next day my account was locked because i was a bonus abuser.No explanation or something.
    Well well well surprise surprise,another casino that tries everything to dont pay.
    I deposit many times at Davincis gold,Paradise8,Cocoa,Pantasia.Never cashed out but no problems whatsoever there.Mayan Fortune was new to me so i signed up and took the free $10,i win $200,cashout and they locked my account.
    Please,If you dont want that players win,dont offer $10 then.My point is that they just send an email that i am a bonuse abuser so they cant pay me bla bla bla.
    Of course like all of you(i think)we deposit and yes ,if they offer some free money,we take it and give it a try.
    I really hate this.they take and accept my deposits but if you win with some free money they offer you,you are a bonus abuser,,,,
    I am from the netherlands so excuse me for my english but i had to make this post..
    I also send a Pm to Robrival to look at my account but no answer back yet
    Thanks for reading.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Sep 22, 2007
  3. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    Your english is quite good :)

    As I don't use bonuses at Rival casinos I'm not familiar with the terms and conditions. Did they give you any specific terms they think you have broken or reasons why your play was unacceptable? Or simply deny based on a broad term of 'abuse'.

    Looking forward to answers and your response from Rob.
    Good luck:thumbsup:
     
  4. Sep 23, 2007
  5. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is the SECOND time Mayan Fortune have done this to a player. Getting $10 up to $200 is LUCKY, there is no known "abuse" ploy that can achieve this with the regularity that makes it an abusers ATM.
    Worse, the casino didn't lock out this player after first reaching the $200, BUT enticed a $20 deposit to comply with the criteria for cashing out.
    The player did NOT then just "do a runner" by immediately cashing out the $20, but played for a rounded balance and gave the deposit to the casino and just went for the winnings.
    This player seems to have had no issues whatsoever with any of the other mentioned, ecept this was the FIRST time they managed to cash out.

    So, what this player was doing was ABSOLUTELY FINE, UNTIL the first winning session. IF terms were being routinely breached, this was happening at the others - another case of selective application of the rules when players win? - or worse, no rules breached, just didn't want to pay.

    If the $200 is to be confiscated, they ALL deposits are due to be returned as per standard "f u clause" rules, as this player was playing an unfair contract, winnings would have been voided the first time a winning session was made - just happened to be well down the line.

    We'll have no BS about these being "different casinos" as we have been previously informed that there is a central shared database of "unwanted" players. They would have known what kind of player this was after the first couple of deposits, they could have taken action then. This looks like a cynical move to extract as many losing deposits as possible till the "abuse" rule had to be invoked after a withdrawal.

    If this lot are trying to scare players away from trying a new software brand, this has done the trick for me. This kind of thing used to be seen only with RTG, then we had some MG casinos trying it, and William Hill (crypto).
    HYPE, the other newish brand that came to light around the same time, effectively went bust leaving players & affiliates high & dry, and now Rival seems to be another risky place to play if any of their promotions are used.
    Given that promotions are the main thing that online casinos use to compete in the market, playing without them is probably not worth it while playing at others WITH their promotions is available.
    If they want to attract players without promotions, then these players need a better deal on game payouts and wagering comps - these are depressed because the money goes to fund the promotional aspect, and if players cannot use these they are not getting the same value for money as players that can use promotions.
     
  6. Sep 23, 2007
  7. RobRival

    RobRival Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical Support
    Location:
    Canada
    Hello,

    I have messaged the casino manager and the account has been reviewed and an error was indeed made. I have pm'd you with details. Don't hesitate to contact me if you have any further questions. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience.

    Rob
     
  8. Sep 23, 2007
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Surely this account has already been "reviewed by the casino manager" BEFORE such drastic (and now public) action was taken against what now appears to be an innocent player?
    Was this the SAME "mistake" that featured in the last thread?

    Perhaps players should avoid playing there till these mistakes have been ironed out of the system - their experience will then be less stressful.
     
  10. Sep 23, 2007
  11. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    These two mistakes seem to be close together in time, and it does make me wonder about how many have occured to people without knowledge of or access to a quality forum.
    I just made a small deposit today at another Rival casino, and hate to say, I probably won't deposit again until we see some light. I didn't use a bonus, but that's not the point. As long as casinos offer bonuses they need to treat each player fairly or they probably won't be seeing my business. That doesn't leave me with many options, and my personal opinions of bonus strategy are fairly well known, but I've never been afraid to take a stand and if I have to limit my gaming options for my own self-respect, I will.

    Rob has always been open and transparent here... is this a rogue-ish manager that you guys need to reign in? I'd hate to see a bad precedent set that would affect the good name Rival has in all of its other casinos.

    Edit: I am slightly concerned that there may be a strategy that is exploitive, but not properly termed against and that Rival may become too accomodating to their own detriment. I'm just not very sharp on the bonus thing.
     
  12. Sep 23, 2007
  13. sdaddy

    sdaddy Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona
    Here we go again. Now we're being told an "error was made" in this latest case of Rival voiding winnings by invoking it's subjective bonus abuse clause.

    Players may have given Rival the benefit of the doubt last time, but they're not buying this anymore. Obviously, what these cases have shown is an established policy that's in effect.

    Agreed. Nothing less than Rival changing its T&Cs and publicly repudiating such practices will now restore player confidence, imo.
     
  14. Sep 23, 2007
  15. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    I hope they do, for their sake as well as bonus player's. But I'm keeping an open mind that this is something that can be easily remedied before a whole slew of 'practioners' 'attack' Rival.

    I could be all wet; but it seems there is a weakness in the bonus offers, the T&C, or there have been some unfortunately bad management decisions. (I don't consider two complaints to be indicative any more than two wins or losses in a row via RNG:)) but it does pique my interest as I had intended to play @Rival more.

    I'm more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now.

    I have noticed the 'tightening up' of offers there lately, that's what makes me think they may be getting 'hit'. But again, I could be all wet.
     
  16. Sep 23, 2007
  17. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    The exploited weakness theory explanation might work, but THIS player turned a $10 bonus into $200, and then did NOT exploit the deposit rules by immediately withdrawing the $220, but "gave" the $20 back to the casino and just took the $200, and this probably didn't even cover the losses at the others.
    The ONLY thing this player seems to have done is open accounts at 4 Rival casinos, is this against the T & C, if not, it is no more "wrong" than a player opening accounts at 4 separate Microgaming casinos (assuming there is nothing on the website that indicates all the Rival casinos count as one single "group", such as Microgaming's Jackpot Factory's 4 casinos.

    Two complaints might indicate that 3 players have been "screwed" with no idea how to further their complaint. This is based on the recent survey that showed around 40% of active players visited this, and/or other, fora.
    They may have been posted close together, but they may NOT have happened this close together.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. Sep 23, 2007
  19. chuchu59

    chuchu59 gambling addict CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    EXECUTIVE
    Location:
    SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
    This cannot be an oversight again, can it? I await your reply, Robrival.
     
  20. Sep 23, 2007
  21. RobRival

    RobRival Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical Support
    Location:
    Canada
    Hello everyone,

    First please let me apologize for the casino. The two grievances on this message board are linked to a hefty flood of players who managed to bypass certain security measures and clearly abused promotions. This exploit has been fixed but a large number of players got through in a very short time span. Unfortunately, an overwhelmed support staff made a number of mistakes with legitimate accounts. The casino manager has informed me that he continues to actively review all accounts and ensures legitimate players will be paid, if they have not been already.


    Kind Regards,
    Rob
    Rival Technical Support
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Sep 23, 2007
  23. lojo

    lojo Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht

    Occupation:
    Tradesman
    Location:
    USA
    And here we have it again... it looks like some bonus forums or websites have instructed 'players' that there were some 'easy pickins' available at Rival casinos. Members and readers of the sites made a 'raid' on the casinos and in damage control a few legitimate players got caught in the net.
    In the past these occurences have bankrupted good operations and forced many (CR) to consolidate into groups.

    It's the perenial conundrum for the casinos... how can we attract new players and keep our current players happy without offering bonuses that may be susceptable to exploitation?

    From earlier episodes I think a major portion of the problem can be traced to casino/affiliate relations, and it may be time for a new breed of affiliate and affiliate advocacy. A self policing affiliate group, with market power, that only deals with reputable casinos and who offers pressures and incentives to it's members to 'out' the rogue affiliates.

    Wholly new relationships and 'contracts' would have to be developed between casinos and affiliates... and I have no doubt that the integrity, brainpower, and innovation needed resides right here on this board. At least for the impetus. I don't have any experience in it and simply offer this as an idea or possibly a challenge.
     
  24. Sep 23, 2007
  25. alita55

    alita55 Dormant account

    Location:
    netherlands
    Hello guys,

    Thanks for all the response.Good to have a board like this.
    In first place i gave it up,thought how can i fight against this casino.
    You know the emails you get:The casinos decision is final.
    Hate to read that line.
    then i saw the other thread here in this forum and thought lets try to make this problem public and see where it goes.
    It seems to easy to call me a bonus abuser without giving me an explanation why.As i said already i deposit frequently at 3 other rival casinos and never cashed out.In fact i almost never take bonuses because i dont like the playtrough hehe you all know.
    but if they offer a free $10 to claim,of course you take it.
    Got a message from Rivalrob that there was mistake.
    I have my doubts about it but i wanna give them a chance but also a little warning.
    Dont treat players like this because you will lose them.
    If i get the money,i will think to redeposit again at Rival,because i like the software.But it must come from 2 ways.
    Players deposit,casinos payout when players make a withdraw.
    Thats the way players coming back and the way casinos make money .
    I hope this was a coincidence and that it will not happen anymore with nobody.
    Thanks again.
     
    1 person likes this.
  26. Sep 24, 2007
  27. alita55

    alita55 Dormant account

    Location:
    netherlands
    Got a message from Robrival that i coud withdraw the full $200.
    Of course have to wait another 2 days before it will be processed.
    Let you all know if i get paid.
    Cheers!
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Sep 24, 2007
  29. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Really, all this fuss over $10 - This player should not have even been "in the frame" for an audit, let alone get mistaken for one of these "raiders".

    If there were such huge problems with players ripping the guts out of the STANDARD SUB, WHY have I just received this:confused:

    Not Mayan Fortune, but one of theirs all the same. I would like to know what this "security glitch" was that allows a player to "abuse" a bonus.
    If this was a SOFTWARE ERROR, rather than a T & C "brainfart", we need Rival to come clean. It doesn't matter now it's fixed, but this is highly important as when software errors favour the CASINO it is a different matter - nothing happens (apart for the old excuse about how luck is fickle & the RNG is fair.etc.etc) till PLAYERS show irrefutable proof in public that something "aint right", as in the English Harbour and Mansion VP cases.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Sep 24, 2007
  31. alita55

    alita55 Dormant account

    Location:
    netherlands
    Haha,thanks Vinyl,you just make the right point,all that fuss starting with $10.

    But that makes me also angry a bit,before taking only this free $10 i deposit and deposit and deposit....
    Always excuses....for god sake,just pay the player,doesnt matter if he deposit or takes a bonus.
    To make a deposit seems never be the problem but if a player wins...
     
  32. Sep 24, 2007
  33. sdaddy

    sdaddy Meister Member

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona
    And again, I say to you that your group must address any undesirable play or exploitive technique by players who use your bonuses by drawing up SPECIFIC rules against such things in your T&Cs. The problem is that you insist on keeping your subjective bonus abuse policy and using that as a catch-all for all these cases. This will not wash. Players will opt for the casinos which have all their T&Cs clearly laid out, and avoid the stress of whether or not their play has been "legitimate" every time they cash out.
     
  34. Sep 24, 2007
  35. RobRival

    RobRival Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Technical Support
    Location:
    Canada
    Hi there,

    Just to clarify, Mayan Fortune and Sloto Cash are under different management companies and as such the marketing operations are completely separate. Sloto, as the email graphic you post shows, is run by DeckMedia while Mayan Fortune is managed by Bonne Chance NV. Each of which are independent of Rival Gaming.

    Regards,

    Rob
     
  36. Sep 24, 2007
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    So, DeckMedia actually run the joint!!! The invite looked line spam to me, and also it was tagged as spam by Virgin Media's filters.
    I have had other "spam" from DeckMedia, so what else do they run?

    I thought another member here was told that all Rival casinos have a central player database, surely if these are totally separate companies running these, and are indepentent of Rival, it means they should NOT be feeding player details to a central database - this sharing with other independent casino operators is a breach of privacy - something many casinos say they never do, but we then find out the opposite.

    How did DeckMedia get my information in the first place, I have NEVER played at ANY Rival powered casino. The invite looks as though they even know a little about my online gaming habits, as this is a fast track offer to VIP status, and I doubt they will be throwing this at everybody.

    The question about how players "exploited" the bonus in a mass raid has been avoided, was it simply badly worded T & C, or an issue with the software that allowed the wagering system to be abused by those in the know.

    Since players are having winnings confiscated, can we assume that the affiliates responsible for sending these "raiders" to Mayan Fortune will have their commissions confiscated.
     
  38. Sep 24, 2007
  39. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Regarding the picture attached to this message, it is interesting to note that Deckmedia's address is in one the less savoury parts of Manchester, and they are advertising a casino licensed in Curacao, which is not illegal.
     

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