Maragret Thatcher RIP.

Yes, indeed you are pretty much on the nail there. If you look at world history, the left/far left have bullied, killed, dehumanized and deceived more people than the so-called 'far right' have. Communism, barely 96 years old, has murdered, starved and slaughtered to date 100million people. It can only exist by force, unchallenged by religion, opposition or ideals. In contrast, dictators and leaders which we would call 'fascist' or 'Nazi' are at barely a tenth of that figure, yet by the PC propaganda the Gradinua/BBC/socialists spout you'd be forgiven for thinking the opposite was true. Now understand that ANY philosophy or leader left or right that causes death is evil in my book.

"Left" or "right" doesn't matter much when you live under a totalitarian regime. What baffles me is the number of people that push for more control, more laws and a bigger system that leaves no room for individual liberty. I place freedom miles and miles ahead of any human-made, location and time dependent, political system.

Left wing and right wing: 2 wings of the same bird.

Freedom is in our roots, it's in our nature and I wish more people would start to embrace it instead of fighting it with "systems". We're apes, not ants.
 
Unfortunatly I cant give any respect to a human being who's sole purpose in life is to tell other people how to live there lives. All politicans are nothing but lying sacks of crap, all out for themselves with not a care for anyone but themselves. They are selfish by design and dangerous by their actions..

respect - pfft - the only good politican is a dead one! :thumbsup:

Sure - whatever. But let's not lower ourselves to using descriptive profane nouns. Thank you.
 
Just wait for webzcas to join this thread!

Here you go :)

Morrisey succinctly sums up how I feel about the woman. To add to what I have quoted below, as someone who grew up under her rule and saw first hand as did many, what she did do to our country, I am shocked that in these times of austerity that she is being lauded up there with the likes of Churchill. Being provided a funeral which is a state funeral all but in name, which the British tax payers are paying for.

They should have had a private ceremony and let her RIP. But because it is now a big public event, the British public have a right to vent their feelings about her. You cannot quieten the dissenting voice. Contrary to what many streams of the UK media like to portray. Thatcher as PM and her government and her policies was reviled by as many if not more than actually profited and benefited from them.

Margaret Thatcher

The difficulty with giving a comment on Margaret Thatcher's death to the British tabloids is that, no matter how calmly and measuredly you speak, the comment must be reported as an "outburst" or an "explosive attack" if your view is not pro-establishment. If you reference "the Malvinas", it will be switched to "the Falklands", and your "Thatcher" will be softened to a "Maggie." This is generally how things are structured in a non-democratic society. Thatcher's name must be protected not because of all the wrong that she had done, but because the people around her allowed her to do it, and therefore any criticism of Thatcher throws a dangerously absurd light on the entire machinery of British politics. Thatcher was not a strong or formidable leader. She simply did not give a shit about people, and this coarseness has been neatly transformed into bravery by the British press who are attempting to re-write history in order to protect patriotism. As a result, any opposing view is stifled or ridiculed, whereas we must all endure the obligatory praise for Thatcher from David Cameron without any suggestion from the BBC that his praise just might be an outburst of pro-Thatcher extremism from someone whose praise might possibly protect his own current interests. The fact that Thatcher ignited the British public into street-riots, violent demonstrations and a social disorder previously unseen in British history is completely ignored by David Cameron in 2013. In truth, of course, no British politician has ever been more despised by the British people than Margaret Thatcher. Thatcher's funeral on Wednesday will be heavily policed for fear that the British tax-payer will want to finally express their view of Thatcher. They are certain to be tear-gassed out of sight by the police.

United Kingdom? Syria? China? What's the difference?

Morrissey
9 April 2013

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Glenda Jackson also summed up quite candidly what many think.

 
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Yeah Chopley already posted that earlier in the thread. As for Morrissey, he only speaks to keep his name in the paper/ to stay current as he's no longer making any music worthy of note. When the Falklands argument kicked off again - he popped up in the paper, when Kate became pregnant and that nurse committed suicide he blamed kate (????) - he popped up in the paper.

Sad thing is the English newspapers fall for it everytime and print his views.

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Why the hell should taxpayers have funded thousands of times more for the bloody Olympics? Why should taxpayers fund IVF? Why should taxpayers pay for child benefits to be paid to Poland and other countries when the children have never lived in the UK but a parent works here?

As for food banks - be honest with yourself. They are principally used by 3 groups. The first are simply on the take and don't need it, it just means the no-questions-asked handouts leave them more cash to do other stuff. The second is immigrants who have not yet been given the handouts they expect and are not working. The third, and possibly the only near-genuine takers are those too uneducated to budget low incomes or benefits properly. In other words, they smoke 20 fags a day at £8 a packet, £56 a week then suddenly realize their kids are going hungry. Not because they have to, but via bad choices by those responsible for them.

There is also the big problem of it taking some 5 weeks to process a new benefit claim, and when someone changes status, such as moving into work, there is also several weeks before they receive any money. The problem is that they and their kids need to eat NOW, not in 5 weeks. 5 weeks of back pay is no good if you have already starved to death. This strongly discourages the poor to change their status, often known as the "benefit trap". Thatcher has been gone for decades, so there has been plenty of time to tackle things that have been blamed on her.

Granted, this should never have been made into a "state occasion". A party occasion maybe, with the Tory party holding it's own PRIVATE meeting to review her contributions, but making it a state occasion was a bad move. People who didn't like her are being pushed to celebrate her, and this just isn't going to happen, so we get the backlash.

I am sure we would never have had parliament recalled or state involvement in her funeral were Labour to have been in power, hence it was not something that should have been made into a state occasion.

If Labour make the same mistake over Blair in the future, they will also get a hard time, probably over the issue of the Iraq war and dodgy dossier.

I would like to hope that Thatcher would NOT have thrown a fortune at the failed PRIVATE COMPANIES that were our banks, but would have managed their collapse so that "ordinary people" didn't lose their savings. This is what SHOULD have happened. A new banking sector could then have made a fresh start, new backers, new investors, and hopefully not make the same mistakes again. Despite being rescued, the "old guard" were left largely in charge, and we have had fresh scandals surrounding things like mis selling of numerous products, unfair charges, etc.

Labour would have also shut the mines, but they would have argued "global warming" and a need to stop burning fossil fuels.
 
Why is it people live in the past so much? As for the coal mines you seem to be referring to (bolded), as Dunover was saying a few minutes ago, why should a community be so reliable on 1 job or 1 industry - like Sheffield and their steel industry for example?

Yeah lets just blame 1 person for a group of people's own shortcomings. I'm not insensitive, really I'm not, but if I train for a job then years later that industry disappears should I then just sit on my arse and complain? Or do I get up and go and do something else?


Sorry but who else can you blame? It was her policies that ruined peoples lives and communities, are u saying that all these ex coal miners sat on their arses and complained?, or maybe they were just work shy who opted to stay on benefits for the rest of their lives, what jobs do you think they should have done when unemployment was so high and mostly they were middle aged men. Please be serious it was not a choice of retraining, colleges and training sites were not so readily available then.
 
The most insulting and offensive thing about all of this is the OP's spelling of 'Margaret Thatcher'.

Can someone please change it so this pedant can relax again? Ta.

FWIW, I'm not a fan or believer that because someone has died, you automatically have to be respectful. If you hated/despised/disagreed with someone in life - the natural, and in fact, honest thing to do is continue your opinion in death or whatever other circumstance also.

Frankly, she deserves all she gets for that haircut alone. Jesus.
 
Why the hell should taxpayers have funded thousands of times more for the bloody Olympics? Why should taxpayers fund IVF? Why should taxpayers pay for child benefits to be paid to Poland and other countries when the children have never lived in the UK but a parent works here?

As for food banks - be honest with yourself. They are principally used by 3 groups. The first are simply on the take and don't need it, it just means the no-questions-asked handouts leave them more cash to do other stuff. The second is immigrants who have not yet been given the handouts they expect and are not working. The third, and possibly the only near-genuine takers are those too uneducated to budget low incomes or benefits properly. In other words, they smoke 20 fags a day at £8 a packet, £56 a week then suddenly realize their kids are going hungry. Not because they have to, but via bad choices by those responsible for them.

You really cant be serious comparing the olympics to maggies funeral:eek:. We are talking about ONE woman who was very very wealthy and aint it funny how we can suddenly find the money to bury her when we are so readily tol there is no money.

And as for food banks you certainly are living on another planet. Honestly you need to get in the real world and see how people are suffering in this country. Deciding whether to heat or eat, But I don't expect that from you to be honest you obviously believe the tory rhetoric regarding the 'spongers' of this country, well good for you. I myself am not doing to badly I will never need to use a food bank or claim money from the state. But I pay my dues to 'society' (yeah I believe in society and not just individuals). I will always help them less fortunate than me, if that means just donating to the local food bank then so be it, I would never complain that my taxes are funding the benefit system or the NHS because I have seen first hand the problems faced by many families in my own community, these families were professionals who have fell on hard times due to job losses and austerity.

I will however complain bitterly that THAT woman is getting a funeral paid for by tax money.


Forgot to add if you wanna call me a lefty than please go ahead its not an insult to me I am proud of the work I do to help the less fortunate than me, I strongly believe that people should be supported as and when they need to be, because lets face it we aint all born with the same opportunities in life.

Now I will ask my question again the one you failed to answer Why on earth should taxpayers pay for ONE womans funeral
 
She's gone now and as a human being one should respect the deceased. You could have mounted a crusade against her while she was still here but let her rest in peace.


Strongly disagree with this, why respect someone in death that you never respected in life
 
Sorry but who else can you blame? It was her policies that ruined peoples lives and communities, are u saying that all these ex coal miners sat on their arses and complained?, or maybe they were just work shy who opted to stay on benefits for the rest of their lives, what jobs do you think they should have done when unemployment was so high and mostly they were middle aged men. Please be serious it was not a choice of retraining, colleges and training sites were not so readily available then.

In my experience there's always something kicking around. Ironicly, in the past few years all I have heard is people saying there are no jobs at the moment and it all stems from MT's reign as PM, its absolute tosh. I'm currently unemployed and I'm coming out of the jobcentre with 6 or 7 things to apply for everytime I bob down there. It's just a case of applying yourself to different things. In my time I have been a removal man, a kitchen porter, a parcel sorter and a bin-man, what I like to call common-sense jobs, not highly glamorous but they all pay.

I just find it hard to believe that 1 industry shuts down and there is suddenly no jobs available at a time when many people were encouraged and being helped to start up their own company.

EDIT: Nice to see Bob Crow chiming in with his hateful remarks about Thatcher, a man who apparantly represents working class families. Taken from today's Sun:

"He earns pay and perks of £140,000 a year, but 51-year-old Crow lives in a three-bed council house in London.

Despite claiming to represent working class people he was spotted quaffing champagne at a £650 Mayfair lunch while plotting Tube strikes in 2011."

Remarkable.
 
A couple of more points for anyone who is 'outraged' that some people, myself included are not lauding the memory of Margaret Thatcher. There is the saying do not speak ill of the dead. Well unfortunately, in the case of Margaret Thatcher, elevating her funeral to a 'state' occasion and with the majority of the media painting her as the 'Saviour of Britain', some are compelled to right these wrongs. So they should be allowed to be heard as well IMO.

Does this make me respectful of her passing? I never respected her whilst she was alive and I won't respect her now she is dead. I believe the fact that when someone dies that their memory should not be tarnished, but I am afraid if our government and our press is hell bent on making her out to the best thing since Churchill ( Which is a disservice and insult to Churchill ), then this needs to be tackled head on.

Again, I state, if they just gave her a private burial instead of a big state occasion costing millions, in addition to the costs of recalling parliament yesterday, then I am sure the reaction to her passing from those that opposed her and her policies would be far more muted.

How about before condemning and labeling those like myself who dare criticise Margaret Thatcher's record now she is dead, you pause and think of the parents and families of the 96 people who died at Hillsborough in 1989, where justice as of yet has still not been served. Thanks largely in part to Thatcher covering up what actually happened that day.

As for attacking Morrisey whose blog post I quoted above. Those of you that are friends with me on Facebook, will see that even my own brother cannot believe I have quoted 'Mozza'. By all means, degenerate the author of those points that I agree with, it doesn't however lessen their very strong convincing reasoning.

Margaret Thatcher was the most divisive and polarising politic leader of the last century. This is an incomplete list of why many of us fall on the side that does not regard her with anything other than odium…

1. She supported the retention of capital punishment
2. She destroyed the country's manufacturing industry
3. She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws
4. She abolished free milk for schoolchildren ("Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher")
5. She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)
6. She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration
7. She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)
8. She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million
9. She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands
10. The poll tax
11. She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad
12. She compared her "fight" against the miners to the Falklands War
13. She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we've been railing against for the last 5 years
14. She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS
15. She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits
16. She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA
17. She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control
18. Section 28
19. She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as "that grubby little terrorist"
20. She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers
21. She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population
22. She opposed the reunification of Germany
23. She invented Quangos
24. She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%
25. She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister
26. Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech
27. The Al Yamamah contract
28. She opposed the indictment of Chile's General Pinochet
29. Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike
30. She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%
31. BSE
32. She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession
33. She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process
34. She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa
35. Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin
36. Crime rates doubled under Thatcher
37. Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion
38. Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage
39. She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.
40. She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education
41. In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions
42. 21.9% inflation

thatcher.jpg
 

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