Mansion - bogus affiliate complaint

well, we're straying into the language of legal-ese; who knows.

couldn't we say that Dubya caused the hardship? ;)

Sure, we could say that but it still doesn't affect the fact that a "Hardship" has been caused...

The hardship clause is sometimes used in relation to force majeure, particularly due the fact that they share similar features and they both cater to situations of changed circumstances. The difference between the two concepts is that hardship is where the performance of the disadvantaged party has become much more burdensome, but not impossible, while force majeure refers to a party's contractual requirements have become impossible, at least temporarily. Hardship constitutes a reason for a change in the contractual program of the parties. The aim of the parties remains to implement the contract. Force majeure, however, is situated in the context of non-performance, and deals with the suspension or termination of the contract....
 
Sure, we could say that but it still doesn't affect the fact that a "Hardship" has been caused...

The hardship clause is sometimes used in relation to force majeure, particularly due the fact that they share similar features and they both cater to situations of changed circumstances. The difference between the two concepts is that hardship is where the performance of the disadvantaged party has become much more burdensome, but not impossible, while force majeure refers to a party's contractual requirements have become impossible, at least temporarily. Hardship constitutes a reason for a change in the contractual program of the parties. The aim of the parties remains to implement the contract. Force majeure, however, is situated in the context of non-performance, and deals with the suspension or termination of the contract....

One point is that the US withdrawal was a POLICY DECISION by Mansion, and certainly not "force majeure".
The act signed by Dubya makes it MORE DIFFICULT for casinos to cater for the US, but NOT IMPOSSIBLE, as many casinos are currently demonstrating.

We now have to worry about who is next. Clearly, if other countries are selected by Mansion to be "restricted", then affiliates whose target markets are these countries will then be similarly affected. There is no logic to most cases of restricted countries. While the UIGEA has been used to justify a ban on US players, other casinos have banned countries whose residents have had no problems with gambling online, nor getting paid by casinos.

If Mansion were hit by these crafty "affiliates" who attempted to manipulate the CPA deal, then it is THEIR FAULT for designing a campaign that leaked like a sieve. It was not rocket science to consider that this might result from offering a 5 player CAP where players would "count" even if they only ever used a free chip, or even deposited and played only ONE game or spin before withdrawing (the resulution the rep has publically offered to Alan in order that he receive his $350).
It would have been better to stipulate that this CAP deal would only count for players who risked a certain amount of their own funds. This would have deterred the chancers.
The advance notice of the US pull out may even have contributed to this affiliate fraud, as these affiliates found they had to meet their 5 player quota before Mansion shut the door on them, so may have tried their luck at bending the rules to hit their quota before it became impossible.

Many of these affiliates have no chance whatsoever in making up the shortfall through non-US players, they have to compete with other affiliates in those countries, and also have to deal with both a language and culture difference.

Mansion know there is little danger of this ever going before a court, so will probably get away with it if they hold their nerve, however, future business prospects might be tainted by this series of decisions.

Without the unusual 5 player target, none of these problems would have arisen, and genuine affiliates would have been paid off, and frauds would not, and this would have been dealt with quietly, with only the frauds making "noise" on the forums, and they would soon have been found out.

If Mansion can PROVE AJs place to be a fraud, then this will follow the above trend, but the evidence points to AJ being a small affiliate, who got screwed by big business over $350 that is simply not worth the cost and effort chasing, and "big business" knows it.
 
@ Anthony @ Mansion, I've been keeping up with this thread and reading it since inception and if all you have posted so far is the best you can come up with as to the reasons not to pay the aforementioned affiliates then you have a very very weak case which would never stand up in a court of law within the US borders if it could actually go to small claims court here...

It definitely sounds to me in all that I have read so far that Mansion is really stretching here for reasons to get out of paying their affiliates...JMO

The fact of the matter is that he DID send you players, and should be paid accordingly. It's not his fault that you guys banned USA players.

So this affiliate should totally change their business plan so they can send you 2 players?

Were they legitimate players? If so, then pay this guy already. You're not out any money, and there were partial "services" rendered, and any court will see it the same way.

MY POINT EXACTLY!


Why not just make the entire issue simple and pay the guy the measly $360.00 and make the issue go away man...you sure are putting in a hell of a lot of effort over just $360.00 ??? The guy brought you three customers, show him your decency and appreciation and pay the man !!
:thumbsup:

Boy if I lived outside the USA
i'll be damned if I would deposit
or join Mansion as they all ready
show their true colors


Cindy

If Mansion can PROVE AKs place to be a fraud, then this will follow the above trend, but the evidence points to AJ being a small affiliate, who got screwed by big business over $350 that is simply not worth the cost and effort chasing, and "big business" knows it.

Anthony I recommend you start pulling some more strings as your running on thin glass. The point at hand is you attempted to scam another affiliate and I wasn't going to allow it to happen without the gambling world knowing. I gave you guys an entire year to pay me and Im just flat out tired of the bs you gave me.

PS You got another player at paw complaing about not getting paid looks like You got work to do oh and he has over 30 active players there so stop with the 5 active player bs

Today, 10:44 AM
ramchip ramchip is offline
Senior Member

Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 187
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I have been a UK affiliate for over 2 years and the only site I have had problems with is Mansion. I still have funds in Mansion that I have not been able to withdraw.
 
One point is that the US withdrawal was a POLICY DECISION by Mansion, and certainly not "force majeure".
The act signed by Dubya makes it MORE DIFFICULT for casinos to cater for the US, but NOT IMPOSSIBLE, as many casinos are currently demonstrating.

I understand what you are saying Vinyl, but the point I was making was that while "force majeure" refers to a party's (being Alan's) contractual requirements that has become impossible, at least temporarily for him and other affiliates to continue business under the same terms that he and the others had originally signed on for since his target market was a US focused client base and Mansion took that option away from him...and on another point if Alan can find only two other affiliates to join him that have also not been paid, then they can file a class action suit, which only requires three people...

Many of these affiliates have no chance whatsoever in making up the shortfall through non-US players, they have to compete with other affiliates in those countries, and also have to deal with both a language and culture difference.

Exactly, and as I stated previously, Alan would most likely have to spend at least the $360.00 that he has already earned by being able to get a high ranked listing on some foreign server and maybe even having to pay to redo SEO tags...etc., etc...

Mansion know there is little danger of this ever going before a court, so will probably get away with it if they hold their nerve, however, future business prospects might be tainted by this series of decisions.

If I were Alan, I would surprise their ass and file a claim against them in small claims court in Omaha, NE., which would be the ruling jurisdiction since Alan most likely signed the agreement there. This process only costs about $25-$30. Then when the case goes before small claims court and no one shows up in Mansion's defense then Alan would automatically win his judgment....now collecting on that won judgement is another story, but it would certainly send a message...
 
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MY POINT EXACTLY!



:thumbsup:





Anthony I recommend you start pulling some more strings as your running on thin glass. The point at hand is you attempted to scam another affiliate and I wasn't going to allow it to happen without the gambling world knowing. I gave you guys an entire year to pay me and Im just flat out tired of the bs you gave me.

PS You got another player at paw complaing about not getting paid looks like You got work to do oh and he has over 30 active players there so stop with the 5 active player bs

So, is "ramchip" yet another "fraud" in the eyes of Mansion, pulling the same stunt of getting players to sign up by offering an unauthorised promo, or getting some "friends" to sign up and play one game all using the SAME IP, PC, deposit method etc.

OR, will yet another excuse for non-payment emerge.

This is a UK affiliate, and Mansion, I believe, is in Gibraltar. This UK affiliate is far more likely to be able to get redress because both they, and Mansion, are EEC based businesses.

Was this 5 player minimum DESIGNED to "scam" those who dipped their toes in the affiliate business, but weren't much good and only got a couple of players, thus giving Mansion a load of "free" players, or at least being able to delay payment while these affiliates tried to get up to 5 players.

Ramchip, with 30 players, looks like a medium sized affiliate, and it should be easy to find out if these 30 players are "connected", so very soon Mansion should be able to present evidence that ramchip acted in bad faith, otherwise how can they justify non-payment?

This issue does need investigation, and by someone who knows about the affiliate side of the business in more detail, as we have accusations that Mansion is backing out of agreements, and counter accusations from Mansion that these non-payments are because these affiliates acted against the terms of their agreements (fraud/bad faith).

Does any site offer a PAB service for small affiliates?
 
This issue does need investigation, and by someone who knows about the affiliate side of the business in more detail, as we have accusations that Mansion is backing out of agreements, and counter accusations from Mansion that these non-payments are because these affiliates acted against the terms of their agreements (fraud/bad faith).

Does any site offer a PAB service for small affiliates?


I have been provided with the GRA's department info to file a complaint against mansion thanks to a private source here at Casino Meister.
handshake.gif


I plan on doing this very shorty.

Read the procedure here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


...and file a complaint here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Aside from their behavior, the rep's posting is rank unprofessional. These people want the business boost of regulation by these governmental organizations, but they DON'T want to actually have to follow the rules, they want it both ways.
 
I have just got done finishing up the paperwork and will be sending it off today both via mail and email. I Will keep everyone informed and I have provided GRA a link to this thread. It's truly a shame what has happened but if a company has to rob Peter to pay Pall then there is a very serious issue at hand.
 
Congratulations Alan, that's two threads at PAP forum that you've managed to get shut down.

By the way, there's just one more thing. It's only little but it's really buggin' me..........Pall.....PALL!?

IT'S PAUL - You rob Peter to pay PAUL!

If you're gonig to continue to make these accusations at least spell-check!
 
Manison reps. your a jerk...and your company that stole my winning $5000 from me shows what business you are !!!!!!!!!!!
 
Congratulations Alan, that's two threads at PAP forum that you've managed to get shut down.

By the way, there's just one more thing. It's only little but it's really buggin' me..........Pall.....PALL!?

IT'S PAUL - You rob Peter to pay PAUL!

If you're gonig to continue to make these accusations at least spell-check!

I would rather have poor spelling then to be a thief like you Anthony. I don't think its very funny either on how your making this thread to be a laughing stock for You and Mansion when actually these are very serious accusations. Myself and the rest of the posters here at CasinoMeister are asking you why your a thief and You have yet to answer the questions brought to You.
 
Manison reps. your a jerk...and your company that stole my winning $5000 from me shows what business you are !!!!!!!!!!!

Hello Frank,

Please post more details regarding your story regarding these clowns will Ya?
 
What questions have I failed to answer?

AK - Not paid, only 3 QA's; needs 5

GooderPoker - Did have payment Issue, but was resolved and funds were transfered to his play account 5 days before you started this thread and he withdrew at the end of March

Yoshiii - Not Paid, Fraudulent Activity, see page 4 of thread

Jackpot13 - Still has not contacted me with his Mansion account details so I can't proceed, but sounds like the issue I outlined further on page 4(Alan, you still haven't posted the URL of where you found jackpot13's post - if you do I'll have a better chance of helping him)

RamChip - PM'd me and his issue is being resolved, the solution appears to have been a very simple one

Frankensite - Have PM'd him to ask for more details

Alan, what did I miss? - What more do you want to know?

With the exception of Frankensite who has just joined the thread, all of the above information was contained in previous posts.

I agree that the accusations you continue to make are very serious, that is why I am persevering with this thread.

You made an accusation about your own account and I responded with Mansion's official position on the matter. You didn't like the answer so you go on repeating yourself. You've brought in others with payment issues, either directly or by quoting their posts, and I've responded with an explanation for each case.

I don't honestly expect you to like what I have to say about your case but to continue to pursue this so rabidly and to suggest that it is my actions that are a turning this thread into a laughing stock, I think, is inaccurate.
 
For the purposes of clarity, HodgeyBoy is my personal CasinoMeister account.

I'll log in now from the Mansion Rep account

Anthony

Are you sure your Real Name is not Liz ??? :rolleyes:

So what was the purpose to answer with your "HodgeyBoy" personal CasinoMeister account name and not your official "Mansion Rep" account name ??

Could you not have stated those same statements with your official "Mansion Rep" account name ??

Is that the way Mansion Casino also cloaks the real issues at hand and why do you have two separate names here at Casinomeister...JFTR...other posters have been banned for the same stunt...
 
It's a fair point to make, Rob.

The Mansion Rep account was not always handled by me in the past and some time in the future I image it will be handled by someone else.

I believe that almost all of my posts as Mansion Rep have featured my name at the bottom but I don't think there's been much doubt that these posts of the last few days have definitly been made by me; Anthony.

As for the HodgeyBoy account you can very easily check on the previous posts made by clicking on the HodgeyBoy user name. There are only two posts so it is clearly not a case of forum sockpuppets being used.

I'm happy to clarify that
 
I would rather have poor spelling then to be a thief like you Anthony. I don't think its very funny either on how your making this thread to be a laughing stock for You and Mansion when actually these are very serious accusations. Myself and the rest of the posters here at CasinoMeister are asking you why your a thief and You have yet to answer the questions brought to You.

This thread should not be allowed to degenerate into a personal slanging match, as this will divert attention from the issue at hand.

As a formal complaint has now been made through GRA, best let this run it's course. If Mansion have been doing something wrong, this should emerge, even if it takes a while.
The Mansion rep seems to need no help "putting his foot in it", as has been demonstrated firstly by being drawn into the slanging match, and then making the mistake of using his personal Casinomeister account to continue without making it clear that he and "Mansion" were the same person. This is probably OK at Casinomeister (reps having official accounts as well as their own pesonal one), but mixing the two on the same subject does look a bit "unofficial", and only reduces the credibility of the Mansion rep's official position.

Further personal attacks could well lead to account suspensions and thread locking for "cooling off", perhaps not a bad idea given that a formal complaint has been started through GRA, who have been given a link to this thread.
 
I'm just getting back into the swing of things, and I'm trying to catch up with this thread. A few points:

Max, I could provide them with 2 more players but the contention is they have changed there own agreement with me as I should not be obligated to do business with them anymore and with them making rules up as they speak.

The agreement is that you were obligated to bring in five qualified players a month. Their agreement with you wasn't changed - it's the qualification of the player that has changed. If they disqualified French players, it wouldn't have affected you, but how are they to control where your traffic is coming from? That's your responsibility, not the casino's.

...Not in one post does Mansion give an explanation for the other no pay webmasters that have came forward from me going public. Actually Mansion is doing the opposite, Mansion has yet to come up with an answer regarding why the other webmasters have not been paid and yet come up with a logical answer why I have not other then there own decision to change there own contract...
This isn't an objective observation. If there are truly other webmasters not being paid, then they need to lodge a formal complaint here at Casinomeister, at CAP, GPWA, or with the Gibraltar authorities. Unless these are submitted, they can't be taken into account; how are we to know they are legit? It could just be a slam fest.

I think I will put my last comments and leave it for the rest.

Mansion always had this "get 5 and we'll pay" policy. Take it or leave it. Its unfair, but clear. They then disallowed some players, but anyone can still get players internationally. So no terms broken yet.
It may seem unfair - but if an affiliate agrees to this term, then it is not unfair. You agreed to provide the casino with five players per month. If a casino pulls out of a certain market, then the webmaster needs to adjust his/her marketing strategy. There are plenty of opportunities for webmasters to acquire traffic from other countries. If your traffic was 90% US, you should have spent your resources building your traffic in other countries instead of spending so much time in message boards complaining about Mansion. You could have been making money instead. With a little ingenuity, you can make it happen - it's not as hard as you think.
 
By the way, I was originally under the impression that this player had delivered three US players, and the casino decided not to include these after they changed their player policy. This is not the case. AK delivered three non-US players; he just needs to deliver two more. I don't understand what he is complaining about since he apparently has the ability to bring in non-US players - he was more than half-way there. :p
 
By the way, I was originally under the impression that this player had delivered three US players, and the casino decided not to include these after they changed their player policy. This is not the case. AK delivered three non-US players; he just needs to deliver two more. I don't understand what he is complaining about since he apparently has the ability to bring in non-US players - he was more than half-way there. :p

Wow, why do people leave such important information out? Don't they know it's just going to come back and bite them in the ass in the end? This changes everything.
 
Wow, why do people leave such important information out? Don't they know it's just going to come back and bite them in the ass in the end? This changes everything.

Yea I agree, but hell the Mansion Rep didn't bother to mention that little fact either ??? :confused:
 
Yea I agree, but hell the Mansion Rep didn't bother to mention that little fact either ??? :confused:

:eek:

What They are claiming I sent them 3 non american players now? :rolleyes:

The lies continue, I can no longer access my account to get screen shots what a shocker! Shuck and Jive really pathetic actually. You would think they would bring up such an important key of information if true to begin with and if that ever was the case I wouldn't have bothered. Point in fact its always about the money, forum owners and gambling operations will continue to pad there wallets in there own interest. The best review out there is a true players opinion, a gambling operation is only as good as there last payout no matter who it is.
 
:eek:

What They are claiming I sent them 3 non american players now? :rolleyes:

The lies continue, I can no longer access my account to get screen shots what a shocker! Shuck and Jive really pathetic actually. You would think they would bring up such an important key of information if true to begin with and if that ever was the case I wouldn't have bothered. Point in fact its always about the money, forum owners and gambling operations will continue to pad there wallets in there own interest. The best review out there is a true players opinion, a gambling operation is only as good as there last payout no matter who it is.
You sent three QUALIFIED players.

This is a portion of an email Max received last month:

...He has only brought 3 qualified players, thus, he
has not met his contractual requirements. Over the last year, our
Affiliate team has been corresponding with him explaining to him that
we are committed to helping him achieve this. All we ask is that he
brings forward two more non-US players and we would be pleased to
release these pending funds.

As a company we emphasize loyalty and fairness to all of our affiliates.
Once the US market was closed, our other US affiliates have not only met
the requirements of bring forward 5 qualified players from the European
market, but they have also exceeded this number. As a result, we have
decided we are unable to change the rules for affiliates do no meet
their contractual obligations.

Why aren't you making an attempt to bring in two more players? Like I said, if you would have spent have the time and effort you've spent in the fora trashing this casino and instead spent this on improving your website's reach, this would have been a non-issue for you. They have plenty of other webmasters who had US facing portals. These guys aren't claiming that they've been ripped off. I still don't see the problem.

Also, please reread the rules on flaming and using this forum as a tool for personal agenda. This forum is not the place to do this.
 
Why aren't you making an attempt to bring in two more players? Like I said, if you would have spent have the time and effort you've spent in the fora trashing this casino and instead spent this on improving your website's reach, this would have been a non-issue for you.

I attempted for an entire year thank you very much. Like I and 30 of your outstanding posters say, they broke the agreement now its there turn to pay the measly 360.00. :thumbsup:
 

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