Mansion - bogus affiliate complaint

AK-

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3.30.2008 (10:37 AM CST)
SCAM ALERT: Mansion F- Sources have confirmed Mansion is stiffing USA Account Players.

AK's Place joined the MANSION business program when they were accepting US players. In the time span from when AK's Place joined the program until the US market was blocked, They brought in three qualified players during a 3 day time span. Fortunately, Mansion decided to stop allowing US Americans by there own business discretion. With Mansion doing this they have changed there contractual agreement with its players and American business partners. AK's Place simply asked Mansion to pay the $360.00 owed to the business. Mansion has decided to not pay Ak's Place after an entire year of negotiation. If Mansion is not able to pay a business partners expenses from over a year ago then we highly recommend not actually depositing in a financially distressed organization. As a result of Mansions actions, AK's Place has placed Mansion on the Scam List indefinitely.
 

vinylweatherman

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It is not just Mansion that behaved badly when it came to pulling out of the US market. Many outfits did this pretty much overnight. In most cases, players were given NO NOTICE AT ALL, and this left them waking up to locked accounts and long winded procedures for withdrawing their balances. If they had given notice, players could have had the chance to withdraw their balances in an orderly manner before closure, and some outfits did indeed give a short notice period.

Non payment of business partners is a slightly different matter, and unfortunately, this is where a business shows it's true colours. Although AKs Place brought 3 players to Mansion, they were quickly not wanted, and thus worthless to the operator. Since they were referred BEFORE the pull out from the US (I am assuming), and also assuming they were able to complete the process of registering, depositing, and playing that would trigger payment to AK's place, then surely payment is due to AK's place under the agreement that was in place prior to the decision to pull out of the US market.

Sadly, they know that they can refuse to pay business partners or affiliates as many lack the legal muscle to enforce the contract, and because this is an offshore internet industry, pursuit is far harder.
Mansion is in Gibraltar I believe, and this is where any claim would have to be made against the company, but for $360 this would not be cost effective. Businesses are not protected under laws that protect the consumer, or player in this case.

Venting frustration is probably the only course of action, as if any other affiliate or partner has been similarly treated, they can add their own experiences and help build a picture of how Mansion are handling the withdrawal from the US and outstanding liabilities from their US operations.
 

AK-

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Since they were referred BEFORE the pull out from the US (I am assuming), and also assuming they were able to complete the process of registering, depositing, and playing that would trigger payment to AK's place, then surely payment is due to AK's place under the agreement that was in place prior to the decision to pull out of the US market.

I agree 100%

I gave Mansion almost an entire year to pay for there part of the agreement. I have learned over time this usually weeds out the bad business partners and now at aksplace we stick with legit companies. I think us webmasters are responsible into make sure people are notified of scummy actions brought from business's like Mansion. Thank You for the post.
 

drpepper

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Obviously this attempt by Mansion is to bully around smaller webmasters. I hope everything turns out for You guys. With bodog bouncing checks and smaller joints like Mansion stealing from there webmasters its very important to stick with accredited casinos here on casinomeister.
 

lnspin

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I had same problem , your going to need a bank account out of the usa and they will send you a wire payment ,

As soon as i opened n interntional bank account , mansion paid me what was owed , and i still work with them and still get paid .
 

AK-

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I had same problem , your going to need a bank account out of the usa and they will send you a wire payment ,

As soon as i opened n interntional bank account they paid me

:lolup:

They made you open an international bank account? :eek2:

Sounds and tactics good way to slow down payments, Will You be at the convention? I would love to have a drink with You.
 

maxd

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Not sure I understand the problem here AK. Here's what I understand of the situation thus far:

- you agreed to give them 5 players before payment would be due.

- you gave them 3 before they pulled out of the US market.

- they are asking you to give them 2 more in order that the terms may be met and your payment released.

Forgive my ignorance, but is there some reason why you can't provide those last two players?

They made you open an international bank account?
Sounds and tactics good way to slow down payments

Perhaps it's to avoid being in breach of US law and allow them to continue paying their affs?
 

Rhyzz

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3.30.2008 (10:37 AM CST)
we highly recommend not actually depositing in a financially distressed organization.


I sincerely doubt that Mansion is a 'financially distressed' company, but that's about as far my input goes, not gonna comment on something I don't know details of.
 

AK-

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Max, I could provide them with 2 more players but the contention is they have changed there own agreement with me as I should not be obligated to do business with them anymore and with them making rules up as they speak. 90% of smaller webmaster traffic comes from the United States. If I wanted a mansion banner on my site for 6 months I could accomplish this. If they would have kept there own agreement I would have had my 5 there in less then a week. I have a large american base memberlist. If they are now demanding international banks setup I would highly prefer a business from the states not to operate with Mansion on this. I have already been audited 2 years in a row and don't feel like a 3rd go around. This is an easy example of Money Laundering using an out of country bank. I would prefer to view my rights on online gambling the American way and to avoid legal escalations that exist in this market now. Mansion has been shuck and jiving for over a year now. They excepted my service and decided one day to no longer keep there agreement. I would simply like to get paid and move on. What am I missing here other then they want to avoid paying smaller webmasters who are owed?
 

winbig

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Max, I could provide them with 2 more players but the contention is they have changed there own agreement with me as I should not be obligated to do business with them anymore and with them making rules up as they speak.

I have to agree. As soon as they changed their contract by not allowing any more sign-ups from USA customers, that contract should be null and void. The affiliate should be paid, irregardless of whether or not the affiliate chooses to do business with that company any longer.

It was MANSION that broke their agreement, not the affiliate.

FWIW, you're over the top with saying they're strapped for cash. Their decision was based on policy, NOT cash related.
 

AK-

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I really dreaded going public on a stiff job from Mansion but now I'm starting to see the benefit from doing so.This thread has found its way to PAP "pokeraffiliateprograms" and because of that other webmasters are going forward! It appears its not just towards Americans but now other webmasters from other parts of the world.

Today, 12:44 PM
gooderpoker gooderpoker is online now
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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MANSION STILL HAS NOT PAID ME MY AFFILIATE EARNINGS
I AM CANADIAN!!!

I have been trying to get it for last 3 months

I hope Casino Meister can do there part and put a warning advisory out very soon.
 

lnspin

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Ak Did not realise you had a 5 player agreement with them , they did break the agreement and should pay ,

As far as an internation bank account , since you are an affiliate go over to cap and get the info to open an asp account , it is fairly easy . This is the same as an internation bank account . And you can have mansion send you a wire there .
 

AK-

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omaha
Originally Posted by Chris-AffiliateClub.com View Post
I used to head up the Affliate Programme at MANSION until I left last year. The 5 QA policy was decided by the Head of Marketing - something no-one could do anything about. It was to prevent affiliates from signing themselves up and a couple of their relatives and then take the money. This could have been solved with a rev share plan as standard but they insisted on the Hybrid Model.

Working there, I know the ins and outs of the place and when I was there (for 17 months), there were 3 CEOs - decisions were made at senior level and we had to take it one way or another. I agree, the company was badly run and the affiliate team put up with a lot of cr*p on a daily basis as they looked for answers/solutions from the senior management.

I joined Mansion as they paid well & have huge backing, hence the potential. This never materialised properly unfortunately though.

Mansion did have a good affiliate programme and I know it was only a minority that had problems there - but that minority should not have been ignored.

I also know Mansion had a policy (not sure if they do now) that forbids AMs to post on forums (I had a written warning for solving a player issue on CM!) so don't be expecting a reply anytime soon. Regarding getting an answer out of them, its hard honestly as I know employees were told "no" or to ignore it. Yeah, believe me, it was like that sometimes.

Anyway, they have now moved their Affiliate team to Israel and the current guys are no longer there. In my honest opinion, the company was run very, very badly hence why I couldn't take it anymore and had to leave.

I will probably get an email/letter being threatened by them but I thought I would let you know how it is. If anyone needs a contact there, please PM me or contact me via my contact details.

Sorry for the rant guys, thought I would let you know what you were/are dealing with when dealing with Mansion.

This was posted at paw now with several other no pay complaints coming forward.

Originally Posted by gooderpoker View Post
MANSION STILL HAS NOT PAID ME MY AFFILIATE EARNINGS
I AM CANADIAN!!!

I have been trying to get it for last 3 months
 

maxd

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... they have changed there own agreement with me ... making rules up as they speak.

Again, excuse my ignorance. What terms changed? Do you have before and after records of this? Post 'em!
 

AK-

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omaha
I have to agree. As soon as they changed their contract by not allowing any more sign-ups from USA customers, that contract should be null and void. The affiliate should be paid, irregardless of whether or not the affiliate chooses to do business with that company any longer.

It was MANSION that broke their agreement, not the affiliate.

That pretty much sums it up, I'm glad all the fair regular active posters agree with my complaint What am I missing here? lol

There are more no payout complaints coming forward and past employees coming forward with there stiff jobs. I don't need to explain the other stiff jobs just mine which is pretty well OBVIOUS
 

MANSION Casino

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OK, seeing as AK is willing to fill up three pages of a thread with mostly his own posts I thought I'd step in at this point and let you all know the Mansion position.

We have not been ignoring this situation, in fact after being contacted last week by Max at Meister about this issue we provided him with an official response which was also communicated directly to AK first.

We were happy to provide this clarification and we welcome Max's input on the matter.

In the spirit of balance I quote here the most relevant part of my post over on the PAP forum:

"I've been in touch with Alan fairly frequently over the last year and both of us have tried various different methods to resolve this issue.


For clarification: Mansion has not broken any agreement or terms with Alan. The Affiliate T&Cs that he agreed to make no mention of any restricted countries in any way. They do however, contain point 9.1.7:

The players that you refer to MANSION comply with the MANSION GENERAL TERMS & CONDITIONS as may be modified from time to time.


It was the player T&Cs that had to be amended in line with the US legislation.

Every other affiliate, which I am aware of, who was in a similar position as Alan, knuckled down and took on the challenge of adapting to the new reality - the same challenge the Poker Rooms themselves had to face. It was never going to be easy but I believe it has helped make the whole industry work much more creatively and professionally.


I agree that it is not unreasonable for Affiliates in Alan's position, who were so badly affected by the withdrawal from the market to expect a certain amount of flexibility.


To that end, I offered to switch Alan to a Rev Share Only campaign. As I explained to him at the time, this meant that all Alan had to do was find two people anywhere in the world outside the US who were willing to play one raked hand of poker or one spin on a casino game. Thats it, and hed have his two elusive QAs to make 5. Unfortunately Alan did not see this as the way forward.


In light of the fact that almost all other affiliates in this position committed themselves to the hard work of promoting outside of the US, I think it would be unfair to them to waive the conditions for Alan that we asked them to abide by


Anthony
Mansion Affiliate Manager
 

AK-

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omaha
Anthony as you know Mansion broke the contract and is sticking by there own right to change there terms and conditions at any time. Any operation that does not give flexibility to there own promoters based from there own actions shows the quality of gambling operator Mansion is.

Mansion obviously has a weak staff and policy which I can easily say by my own situations and others who have recently posted regarding there no pays. Not in one post does Mansion give an explanation for the other no pay webmasters that have came forward from me going public. Actually Mansion is doing the opposite, Mansion has yet to come up with an answer regarding why the other webmasters have not been paid and yet come up with a logical answer why I have not other then there own decision to change there own contract.

I understood 6 months ago it was a waste of time attempting to get paid from this degenerate gambling operation mansion.com I have learned now in this casino industry its very important to choose wisely when joining webmaster plans courtesy of Mansion and warnings from other casino watchdog groups.

If Mansion is able to spend all there time actually over a year delaying a $350 payout goes to show they have way to much time on there marketing end and shows how unstable there organization truly is. I have been in contact with Chris from affiliate club and his detail post regarding the quality of employers and running operations should make anyone jump of there little ship.

Chris and other posters I appreciate the post and comments You have posted and unlike Mansion I do respect your answers and fortunately You Guys/Gals have agreed with me. Over the past 3 days I have gained so much respect to the posters over here for your logical and reasonable responses regarding Mansion Scamming Me.

I feel my job is done here and I know many other webmasters have been watching closely over here regarding Mansions business practices. It would not have mattered if the pope agreed with me regarding Mansion stiffing me as they have no intentions on paying no matter what casino meister posters think.

Thanks Again
 

uungy

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I feel the heading "mansion Scam" is completely inappropriate. They have not scammed at all. I honestly dont believe that they are refusing to pay a meager 175 ($350). Mansion are a reputable company and there seems to be a dispute here between you an Mansion.
Also you posted
I feel my job is done here and I know many other webmasters have been watching closely over here regarding Mansions business practices. It would not have mattered if the pope agreed with me regarding Mansion stiffing me as they have no intentions on paying no matter what casino meister posters think.
It sounds to me you are not interested in resolving the issue, only to put your point across, which I think is unreasonable.

Without taking sides, why dont you AK, just get another 2 players, instead of spending another year complaining. If they dont keep to it then, then I would go to the forums, but this doesnt seem a very productive way to go ahead with it
 

MANSION Casino

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Alan, your opening line is incorrect and frankly goes down hill from there...

I don't expect us to see eye-to-eye over this, Alan, but you're either confused about the T&C's you agreed to or else you're deliberately misrepresenting events in an attempt to gain support from other posters. I wonder which it is?

Let me be clear: The T&C's that you agreed to when you signed up as an affiliate are the very same ones you will find at mansion.com this same day. Not one change has been made. Those same conditions apply to you now as they did then.

Mansion has broken no terms and broken no contract with you.

You try to poke fun at the time that we have spent trying to resolve this issue but if you were an affiliate manager dealing with 100's of accounts I doubt you would describe as 'unstable' an attempt to professionally defend your brand from unfounded and damaging claims.

You have broadcast to all who will listen that Mansion has tried to stiff you and that we are 'financially unstable' Do you, or any other affiliate think that it would be worth our while to spend all this time 'stiffing' a guy who brought us three players over the course of one year to the tune of $350? Your claims just don't hold water.

You claim that this thread, which you so valiantly opened today, has lead to many victims coming forward. Well I count only one. Who was paid last week.

I do not agree that you have 'gained so much respect' as a result of all this noise and heat and I wonder if your claims that 'your job is done' and that you courageously did this for the benefit of others doesn't have more to do with the fact that you managed to get the corresponding thread on PAP forum locked down for failing to back up your grandiose tales.

As mentioned above, I have done everything in my power to make this as simple as I possibly can and help you take steps closer to receiving payment. Beyond that it is a business decision. We are not witholding your funds but we are asking you to abide by our agreement as other similarly US focused affiliates have done - what exactly is it they have been able to achieve that you cannot?

Alan; you are a forceful and persuasive personality. I just ask that you direct your efforts to promoting your own interestes and not running down mine.
 

AK-

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Location
omaha
I have to agree. As soon as they changed their contract by not allowing any more sign-ups from USA customers, that contract should be null and void. The affiliate should be paid, irregardless of whether or not the affiliate chooses to do business with that company any longer.

It was MANSION that broke their agreement, not the affiliate.

FWIW, you're over the top with saying they're strapped for cash. Their decision was based on policy, NOT cash related.

Obviously this attempt by Mansion is to bully around smaller webmasters. I hope everything turns out for You guys. With bodog bouncing checks and smaller joints like Mansion stealing from there webmasters its very important to stick with accredited casinos here on casinomeister.
Reply With Quote

Non payment of business partners is a slightly different matter, and unfortunately, this is where a business shows it's true colours. Although AKs Place brought 3 players to Mansion, they were quickly not wanted, and thus worthless to the operator. Since they were referred BEFORE the pull out from the US (I am assuming), and also assuming they were able to complete the process of registering, depositing, and playing that would trigger payment to AK's place, then surely payment is due to AK's place under the agreement that was in place prior to the decision to pull out of the US market.

Sadly, they know that they can refuse to pay business partners or affiliates as many lack the legal muscle to enforce the contract, and because this is an offshore internet industry, pursuit is far harder.
Mansion is in Gibraltar I believe, and this is where any claim would have to be made against the company, but for $360 this would not be cost effective. Businesses are not protected under laws that protect the consumer, or player in this case.

Venting frustration is probably the only course of action, as if any other affiliate or partner has been similarly treated, they can add their own experiences and help build a picture of how Mansion are handling the withdrawal from the US and outstanding liabilities from their US operations.

Ak Did not realise you had a 5 player agreement with them , they did break the agreement and should pay ,

Now I do think its funny they now claim all the other webmasters where paid last week when I have 2 from just yesterday that have not been paid!! Lie after lie Anthony thats what your best for.

Old Yesterday, 12:44 PM
gooderpoker gooderpoker is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 308
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MANSION STILL HAS NOT PAID ME MY AFFILIATE EARNINGS
I AM CANADIAN!!!

I have been trying to get it for last 3 months

I didn't find them scammy - just difficult to find a person (manager) who could sit down and discuss projects, or examine ideas on their merits.

I agree that Mansion should be dealing with small affiliate accounts that were caught by this change as a special case - but frankly I'm not surprised that they are not.

This lack of dialogue and communication is a key reason why we stopped recommending them - and why we say NO whenever Mansion come back looking to be re-added.

I joined Mansion as they paid well & have huge backing, hence the potential. This never materialised properly unfortunately though.

Mansion did have a good affiliate programme and I know it was only a minority that had problems there - but that minority should not have been ignored.

I also know Mansion had a policy (not sure if they do now) that forbids AMs to post on forums (I had a written warning for solving a player issue on CM!) so don't be expecting a reply anytime soon. Regarding getting an answer out of them, its hard honestly as I know employees were told "no" or to ignore it. Yeah, believe me, it was like that sometimes.

Anyway, they have now moved their Affiliate team to Israel and the current guys are no longer there. In my honest opinion, the company was run very, very badly hence why I couldn't take it anymore and had to leave.

I will probably get an email/letter being threatened by them but I thought I would let you know how it is. If anyone needs a contact there, please PM me or contact me via my contact details.

Sorry for the rant guys, thought I would let you know what you were/are dealing with when dealing with Mansion.

For all the money Mansion has it sure shows they are having no luck buying friends in this industry possibly because they need to fire the people behind the organization and start fresh. It's sad but once again this is my last post regarding these rogue guys unless a casinomeister moderator ask me to come back and post. I think they will do the right thing and agree with there posters. Like I said before if there willing to waste a year delaying mine and other payouts at least by posting I have accomplished on getting some webmasters paid who have been owed for Months!!
 

uungy

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Why have you reposted the same post again?

I am staring to get the outlook that Masion have been trying to appease you and sort it out, and in return you seem to be avoiding their reposnses and just keeping up with your same response continuously without trying to sort it out.

I am starting to believe Mansion have done their most to sort this out, unless you are able to add anything new to this discussion, it definatly seems as though the ball is in your court, and Mansion have been upfron and done and tried their best
 

AK-

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Joined
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Location
omaha
Why have you reposted the same post again?

I am staring to get the outlook that Masion have been trying to appease you and sort it out, and in return you seem to be avoiding their reposnses and just keeping up with your same response continuously without trying to sort it out.

I am starting to believe Mansion have done their most to sort this out, unless you are able to add anything new to this discussion, it definatly seems as though the ball is in your court, and Mansion have been upfron and done and tried their best


I hit submit on accident wasn't done, check up on post before.

Thanks

And on a side note, make this simple cause it really is. If your selling hotdogs in new york and one day human resources says we no longer sale hotdogs in new york and since you only sold 3 hotdogs your not getting paid for your work unless you can sell us 2 in japan and then we will think about paying you. Don't forget You also will need to signup for an international bank account to get paid. Jeez Mansion sure does look like there trying to pay there webmasters.

come on this is simple, mansion broke and changed there own terms and now they expect me to eat it which I have no problem doing but at least I have saved others from joining this rogue website
 

drpepper

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You claim that this thread, which you so valiantly opened today, has lead to many victims coming forward. Well I count only one. Who was paid last week.

Mansion Casino, Is the other victim the same one that is on paw? I just read about another poster over there less then 24 hours ago claim she hasn't been paid for over 3 months.
 

AK-

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Location
omaha
Mansion Casino, Is the other victim the same one that is on paw? I just read about another poster over there less then 24 hours ago claim she hasn't been paid for over 3 months.

You talking about this one?

Yesterday, 12:44 PM
gooderpoker gooderpoker is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 308
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MANSION STILL HAS NOT PAID ME MY AFFILIATE EARNINGS
I AM CANADIAN!!!

I have been trying to get it for last 3 months

Anthony has a problem keeping up with his stories hopefully there is no other victims but it seems there is more.
 
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