MAJOR ANNOUNCEMENT: APCW HAS MERGED

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jas2587

Ueber Meister
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
FL
Dear members and guests,

It is with a great deal of optimism that I would like to officially announce the acquisition of the APCW by the Casino City Group. Many of you may know Casino City as a leader of information and news for the online gaming industry, but they also manage the Gambling Portal Webmaster Association (GPWA.org) and Rolling Good Times News (RGT Online). They are one of the largest and most successful online gaming organizations in the industry.

This announcement explains my extensive travel recently, as Casino City has had me busy so far! LOL! There will also be big changes coming to the APCW, as the Casino City Group will pour many of it's resources into creating a site that will better serve it's members. This includes a total site redesign, better video equipment and production, faster access to breaking industry news and information, increased funding to re-establish an aggressive quality control and auditing program for casinos and affiliate programs, and a staff to handle the operational aspects that previously overwhelmed the two of us who ran the entire site on our own.

My title will change from APCW Administrator to APCW Executive Director and I will still produce videos and have a dynamic impact on what APCW does, with the cooperation of Casino City's CEO Michael Corfman. Anthony remains on staff and will head the new Auditing Program, and additional Casino City staff will help fill in the positions missing for so long.

We thank you for your support and look forward to delivering a more committed, aggressive, and efficient APCW to better serve our members and the industry. Please be patient over the next few weeks as websites are moved around and re-built, and email and phone services are re-routed.

Thanks!

Here's to our future!

:lolup:

copy an pasted from the APCW site

Cindy
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
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Location
Pennsylvania
I think they deserve each other. Neither one has a problem with advertising rogue casinos as long as there's money in it for them.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
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Location
Bierland
Um, let's be fair here.

I don't see GPWA.org or Casino City advertising for any shoddy rogue casinos. Michael Corfman is a stand up guy who I've known for years and has done a hell of a lot for this industry. We are pretty much on the same sheet of music when it comes to doing the right thing.

I can see where the flack is directed at J.Todd because - like it or not - he can be rather outspoken. Well, that's just the way it is.

As for the Gambling Wages issue, I think I mentioned some time ago that each online entity (Casinomeister, CAP, GPWA, APCW...) should work independently when it comes to providing ANY casino outfit a chance to redeem itself. J.Todd gave Gambling Wages a chance, and they did it. I gave the Virtual Casino Group a few chances, and they didn't. J. Todd is not privy to the private correspondence I've had with numerous employees and ex-employees of the Virtual Casino group, nor is he privy to the details of the loads of complaints that have come through me. And neither does Gambling Wages - in fact, I don't think I've ever been in contact with Gambling Wages - nor have I pursued them either.

The bottom line is, there are complaints that are unresolved - and the casino is aware of most of these. It would be unfair to both the APCW and Gambling Wages to chastise them for not taking action on these complaints since these are player/casino matters. GW is merely the marketing arm of some of these casino. If Gambling Wages wants to tackle some of these, they know where to find me :D

And I'm sure they are aware of the player who is owed about $1.5 million. There is just nothing they can do about it because their pockets aren't that deep.

I see this merger as a good thing.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
I can see where the flack is directed at J.Todd because - like it or not - he can be rather outspoken. Well, that's just the way it is.

Don't know a thing about the GPWA, and to be brutally honest, I don't really care that much. If you say they advertise okay casinos, I'll take your word for it.

As to the J.Todd comment....the way it is? The way it is Bryan, is that he doesn't mind posting his crappy YouTube videos here USING this forum to promote Gambling Wages and their ripoff joints, and sucking in more unsuspecting players. But.....when I try to post a linkback to this SAME forum, and tell people to use the search function here, to find out the truth on Coolcat, Club Player, POC and Cirrus....I'm told I'm an idiot, and that my posts are unintelligent. Is that the kind of outspoken you mean? I have another word for it...but I'm afraid I'd be on "vacation" if I used it. Seems to me that outspokeness and free speech only work ONE way with that guy....and that is his way or no way. THAT'S the way it is, IMO.

EDIT: Thought I'd go glance really quick at GPWA.org and Casino City, never been to either. Main page of GPWA, Chipleader is a Silver member. Chipleader of the Absolute Poker/Ultimate Bet notoriety. And main page of Casino City? Third casino down the right hand side.....Joyland Casino, third MOST popular casino in fact. Oh, and #61 on their "list" of online casinos? You betcha.....CIRRUS!!

Now I'll thank Winbig for his post. I didn't want to do that if he was posting erroneous info re: being about the money. But Chipleader and Joyland is enough for me to say yeah.....it's about the money.
 

suzecat

Dormant account
Joined
Sep 18, 2004
Location
California
OK, Bryan..............if fair is the operative word, let's be fair.

Is it fair for any affiliate to promote any casino in the Virtual group? It is not a secret, nor should it be, that the Virtual casino group has a very tacky way of doing business. And while we are being fair.............what about the players who deposit and play there because of the affiliates who now believe the group has turned over (another) new leaf and can be trusted to pay winners? And what about the casinos in the Virtual group who are not in Gambling Wages? Is it fair to expect players will magically know that GW casinos are ok but non-GW casinos (even though in the Virtual group) are still rogue?

The idea that the player must research a casino before depositing and playing is understood. However, when affiliates promote them (and give an "all clear") it seems unfair to expect a player to do further research to uncover any "bottom-line" motivated scheme............either between GW and APCW (or whatever they are calling themselves today) or anyone else similarily motivated.

This site seems to do ok without promoting rogues. Can't foresee any circumstance that would force you to change that Bryan.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
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Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
The bottom line is, there are complaints that are unresolved - and the casino is aware of most of these. It would be unfair to both the APCW and Gambling Wages to chastise them for not taking action on these complaints since these are player/casino matters. GW is merely the marketing arm of some of these casinos.

Sorry, I'm really not trying to be dense...nor confrontational on purpose. But what is the difference if they are the marketing arm, or the casinos themselves? Does the money from player's pockets not all go into the same coffers? So it's okay for webmasters to advertise these shitholes, cause the affiliate program is okay, and beneficial to affiliates? But it's NOT okay for players to play there?

Honestly Bryan, what is the distinction? Gambling Wages is the mouth (one of them) that feeds the monster known as Virtual Group Casinos. To say they are MERELY the marketing arm? You've lost me now.

Obviously I understand the difference between an affiliate program and a casino...but the casino would have a whole lot harder time surviving without the affy program and all the unscrupulous affiliates feeding them fresh (unsuspecting) meat on a daily basis.

I knew there was a reason I have tried to stay out of these APCW/GW/JTodd threads. :rolleyes:
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
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Location
Bierland
What I mean by marketing arm is that the aff program is usually separate from the casino. In other words, the aff program is not privy to what is happening at the casino level.

In this situation, I have no idea how these people are organized at the moment. Whether they are in the same office (as they once were), or somewhere down the hall. IMO it's the casino managers and their supervisors that call the shots. Aff managers usually just try to clean up the mess laid behind so they can go on their way to be successful at what they do.

It was mentioned that some players that went through the APCW and GW weren't paid? (besides mysticjoz) - direct them to the PAB section (or this thread) and Max and I will review their cases.
 

GrandMaster

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Location
UK
What I mean by marketing arm is that the aff program is usually separate from the casino. In other words, the aff program is not privy to what is happening at the casino level.
Shouldn't they try to find out? Like if the first dozen hits for the name of the casino on google are complaints about not paying, then shouldn't the marketing people suspect that something is wrong with the casino? Or is it like advertising cigarettes, it is OK as long as you have some doubt that they increase the chance of cancer, heart disease, etc?
 

dominique

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Location
The Boonies
In this situation, I have no idea how these people are organized at the moment. Whether they are in the same office (as they once were), or somewhere down the hall.

I don't know too much about these guys since I wouldn't deal with them, but I do recall an ex-affiliate manager of theirs saying at a conference that she managed to get the owners to seperate the two entities completely and they were in totally different locations (same city). This was however some time ago, over a year. Dunno what may be the situation today...

Yes, affiliate programs feed the casino, of course. But whether they have any influence on the casino's dealing or not varies a lot. Some smaller operations work tightly together, others are completely seperate businesses that do not interact at all. In some cases different branches of the marketing arm do not even interact, such as affiliate programs and media buyers (ad buyers).

So, trying to go through an affiliate program to solve player issues is hit and miss, depending on the structure.

I think that's what Bryan was trying to say, correct me if I am wrong.

Trying to fix player issues through an aff program is often barking up the wrong tree, although the trees grow in the same forest.

As far as the gambling wages issue goes, I have no idea how much reach gambling wages may or may not have had concering casino issues. I strongly doubt they are able to see the casino records, they would have to go by what the casino tells them.

Just my thoughts based on what I see in the industry in general.
 

DiamondGeezer

Dormant account
PABaccred
PABnoaccred
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NOT Pennsylvania!!!
This industry has a deeply flawed business model IMO. I have never understood why players should trust affiliates when the affiliates are getting paid by the casino's. It is a trait that I have noticed on here quite a lot - some folk are pretty naive and way too trusting! Do not trust affiliates folks. You will only ever get half the story.

What this industry needs is more websites based on the model of paid advertising and an independent assessment. The affiliate model belongs back in the dot com boom. This is the age of the Webmaster - a legitimate business that is not dependent on players revenue streams for a living.
 

winbig

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Joined
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Location
Pennsylvania
This industry has a deeply flawed business model IMO. I have never understood why players should trust affiliates when the affiliates are getting paid by the casino's. It is a trait that I have noticed on here quite a lot - some folk are pretty naive and way too trusting! Do not trust affiliates folks. You will only ever get half the story.

Uh, there's nothing flawed with the business model. You CANNOT group all affiliate programs/casinos as one. Just because there's a few bad apples doesn't mean they ALL are.

FYI, there ARE great affiliates out there, and you most definitely get ALL of the story from them. I'm sure they'll be here soon to say their piece; but I can confirm that you've just given them a slap in the face, including the owner of this site!

I hope you're ready for the shitstorm that you just created.

Also, what's so flawed about the business model? I guess all travel agents are evil as well, because they are basically an affiliate for airlines, cruise ships, hotels, etc.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
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Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
What this industry needs is more websites based on the model of paid advertising and an independent assessment. The affiliate model belongs back in the dot com boom. This is the age of the Webmaster - a legitimate business that is not dependent on players revenue streams for a living.

Win, you may want to read Diamond Geezer's post again. In the paragraph I quoted, he is describing Casinomeister/Bryan to a tee. Bryan has stressed more than once, that he is really not an affiliate, but a webmaster. And I think if you ask him, you'll find that most of his advertising on here is paid for ie. media buy, and not on the affiliate model. That's a guess, but it's the way I've always assumed it is done here.

FTR, I'm no fan of the affiliate model either. Yes, there are good affiliates, but unfortunately in eight years of online gaming, I've found that the bad ones outweigh the good, by a good margin.

Go punch in online casinos/gambling into Google, and search some of the sites that come up on the first couple of pages. I think you'll find that many of them promote what the "good guys" consider to be rogue casinos, especially Virtual and all their clones. It's a losing battle, especially when you have webmasters such as JTodd/APCW, who "did" have some credibility, now supporting shitholes like the Gambling Wages casinos.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
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Location
Pennsylvania
True.....

I will retract my statement about how it applies to Bryan, but it's still a kick in the balls to all of the great affiliates out there.
 

Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
True.....

I will retract my statement about how it applies to Bryan, but it's still a kick in the balls to all of the great affiliates out there.

Absolutely agreed Win. :thumbsup:

Unfortunately there's just too few of them. The ones that I do consider ethical and good, are for the most part the ones who contribute to this forum, and who do make the effort to keep up on current player issues. There are just way too many who throw up a website, sign up for every affy program out there, and toss up a million banners, without doing a lick of research.

Or...the ones who do know better, but just don't care who they promote, as long as the affy program treats them right. Those are the ones I REALLY have a problem with.
 

dominique

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 5, 2003
Location
The Boonies
As long as there are players who either click on bad affiliate sites or/and spam mail, and as long as there are players who will not support quality sites, you will have a whole lot of crappy affiliate sites.

Affiliates survive only if people click on their links.

It is up to players to weed out the bad by ignoring them, there will always be people online trying to make a quick buck who could care less about the mess they create. That's not unique to this industry either.

There will also always be good people who spend all their time gathering information to make your life easier.

If you think a site is crap, please don't click on anything there, and it will die a slow death.

If you would like to see a site in existance tomorrow, you do need to support it with clicks or it will also die.

Whether the site is selling ad space or uses the affiliate model or, most common among the bigger information sites, uses both, they all need clicks to survive.

No clicks, no site. No clicks, no spammers. It's all in your hands.
 

mojo

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Location
East Coast
I will post as an affiliate here. If anything will help APCW right now it will be Casino City/GPWA. I hold the GPWA seals on my sites and take them very seriously. I uphold the affiliate seal of approval that I try to do business in an ethical manner.
I questioned the apcw merge within the GPWA. I trust in the GPWA that the recent events will stop now. Meaning that there will be no more bashing and bad words/videos from the APCW. However, with the recent events, if the gpwa and the apcw merge did not value me as an affiliate, I will remove the GPWA seal from my sites. That's all I can say and I hope you take it as face value from an affiliate that is trying really hard.

All I can say is that this will never be the case again with JTodd under GPWA.
 

Casinomeister

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Location
Bierland
Actually, I don't think that the way advertisers are paid has any bearing to advertising scruples or business ethics - be it rev share, CPA, flat fees, or sexual favors. Advertising is advertising, and most of the webmasters I know take this seriously.

To be fair - the APCW has been producing webcasts for quite some time now. He has scrutinized crooked US politicians, stupid gaming laws, and exposed a number of affiliate programs that were screwing their webmasters. We shouldn't lose sight of this.

GW approached the APCW (not the other way around) because they wanted to wipe the slate clean. J.Todd stuck his neck out to try and get some players paid - evidently he did. So that's good for him - and everyone involved to include these players.

This reminds me of when I removed Crystal Palace from the rogue section, or when I gave the Virtual Group a second and third chance. Some people when ballistic, and I had a hard time getting them to see the big picture. And I felt it was only fair to give someone a chance to make good. In most situations, it's been a positive experience; sometimes it goes pear-shaped.

Also, these things are never ending. Who's to say that in a few weeks or a few months, J.Todd may find out he's been duped. You never know. We all deserve to approach these matters within our own perspectives.
 
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Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
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Mar 31, 2005
Location
Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
This acquisition is a good move in my view. Whilst I realise there are several programs who sponsor the GPWA which I personally wouldn't touch with Simmo!'s let alone mine.

Michael Corfman has always been up front about the 'Certified Programs' on the GPWA. I know because I have asked him about this in person.

In the fact that they are sponsors and are not certified. This is very important to remember

By being listed on the GPWA, it allows an avenue for affiliates and affiliate programs to communicate with each other, should problems arise. This is a good thing IMO.

Casino City is a directory of all gambling operations and thus lists pretty much every online casino going.

The APCW and JTodd have done some sterling work for the industry in the last year or so and this should not be overlooked. By now being part of the Casino City Group however, this should ensure any outbursts which may cause offence, hit the cutting room floor so to speak in the future.
 

mojo

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Location
East Coast
I always believe in transparancy. Should players be interested in reading they can do so here:

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There is also disruption in the affiliate world. This is what affiliates are about. There is nothing like the truth.
 
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