Main Street Group confusing terms!

[CROGO]

In January I played at two casinos that I now know are owned by the main street group:
lasvegasusacasino.com and
diamonddealcasino.com

Before depositing, I read the T+C’s at each. I am a US citizen who has been working outside of the US in the global economy. I had some British pounds and I wanted to check that it was OK to deposit with them. (Some casinos penalize players for this, but I wasn’t earning US dollars at the time.) The T+C’s made no reference to a problem with depositing in GBP. I then looked at the Banking page. On both of these casinos the top of the banking page read:
“Making Deposits
We accept deposits in any currency. Player accounts are tracked in US dollars so deposits made in currencies other than US dollars will be converted at the current bank exchange rate.”
(They both still do):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So I thought, no problem. I’ll deposit in pounds and they will convert them into US dollars. I played at each, one at a time.

I set up an account at LasVegasUSAcasino. I was given a choice of currency. I assumed that the money was all getting converted into US dollars, so a selected “GBP” to indicate I was depositing in pounds. I expected it would be converted into $100 (US), since the banking page clearly states this is the procedure. Instead they took 100 GBP. I played with it, was awarded a bonus and cashed out 283 GBP.

Without knowing DiamondDealcasino was part of the same group, I also opened up an account there. Same thing, only I didn’t claim a bonus there. I deposited what I thought was $100 (US) only to find 100 GBP were deducted from my bank account. I withdrew 213 GBP.

When I went to check my bank account, I realized they had shorted me:
Of the 283 GBP withdrawn at LasVegasUSAcasino they only paid 268 GBP
Of the 213 GBP withdrawn at DiamondDealcasino they only paid 199 GBP
(It was a little hard to see this at first because they recredit in two steps, each less than the full withdrawl.)

When I called to complain they told me that the because I wasn’t a British citizen they had charged me 5% fee for cashing out. They told me this was in their T+C’s. It is not listed under the T+C’s. What I did find is at the very bottom of the banking page under “Overnight Express” they state:
"All players using € (EURO) outside the Eurozone (12 countries in which euro is the official currency) or £(Great Britain Pound) outside the United Kingdom will be charged an additional 5% fee on every approved withdrawal request up to a maximum fee of €500 or £500."
I never requested an overnight express payment, so I don’t understand how this fee could apply. ESPECIALLY SINCE THIS IS CONTRARY TO THE CLEAR WORDING AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE THAT ALL DEPOSITS ARE CONVERTED INTO US DOLLARS!! So according to their banking page, I deposited 100 GBP. They then converted that into US Dollars. Then they converted it back to GBP for me to play with. When I went to cashout they charged me a 5% fee for all of this currency conversion, which I never requested.

I talked with several people on the phone and got nowhere. I realize the amount in dispute is not great, 15 GBP and 4 GBP, but it still annoys me. I have been busy, and it appears that the 60 day window for complaining to Playtech has passed. (And Brian was not available when this happened in January.) But I think everyone should see the DECEIT that the Main Street group is practicing. Despite the fact that I wanted to wager in US dollars, I am now unable to open another account with them, and they refused to convert the existing accounts to US dollars, as the banking section clearly states they would do. Frankly, I’ll take my business elsewhere. I hope everyone here does the same.

 

[Simmo!]

Phew- long post

From all that, it seems the problem here is in the use of "Overnight Express" - whatever that is. Sounds like they paid you in this manner, but you didnt request it in this manner? Is this is a correct summary of the issue?

Cheers

Simmo!

 

[Sodax77]

removed by sodax77

Thanks Summer! You are the best!

 

[CROGO]

Phew- long post

From all that, it seems the problem here is in the use of "Overnight Express" - whatever that is. Sounds like they paid you in this manner, but you didnt request it in this manner? Is this is a correct summary of the issue?

Cheers

Simmo!

No they didn't pay me by "Overnight Express", nor did I request payment in this manner. In each case I received two seperate payments over several days:
4 days between payments at LasVegasUSA and
2 days between payments at DiamondDeal

There was nothing express about it. (And the above is just between the payments, not counting the fact that the withdrawal request was put in a few days before the first payment!) They are just very, very, sneaky.

I am shocked that Brian has them on his approved list.

Yeah, it is a long post, but its not a simple problem like I wasn't paid. It is much more deceptive. Yes, they paid me something, but it wasn't everything they owed me. The house has a high enough edge without charging an extra 5% on WITHDRAWAL requests.

That is robbery!

I guess they must need the money more than I do, huh?

 

[schankwart]

Main Street is an absolute no-go for me!

A few months ago I thought to give them a try and made some deposits across their Casinos to see what they are all about these days. Another few weeks later I requested a small bonus to be credited in one of my accounts and got the strangest excuse ever.... They refused to credit me the promotional funds after I had already deposited, giving the "reason" that I had purchased too much for the promotion!

Had they not brought up this absolute nonsense with me chances were that I would still be making decent deposits with them now. This matter however made it quite clear to me that they apparently are not interested in a good relation with their (higher depositing) players, especially after my message to the manager got ignored as well. Perhaps I should have played some more Slots but VP?

I am not mad about that they did not credit me with the bonus but about the way they explained it. It is obvious that they just wanted to find a reason not to honor the promotion. bleh

While the bonus actually was just of a small amount, this issue stole my trust in their outfit completely, as I read various other complaints about them in the forums before as well.

 

[soflat]

I looked at the banking page and the 5% fee is mentioned below the Overnight Express paragraph, but (to me) it does not look like they meant for the 5% to apply only to overnight express.

I do agree the cashier page is overly confusing, expecially the part about converting currencies (why do they have to convert to USD if you can play in GBP anyways?).

Interesting, they also require players to wager 5X their deposit or else incur processing fees - that reminds of that thread where people were upset about a 1x playthru requirement.

 

[spearmaster]

It doesn't make any sense for them to charge 5% only on overnight express unless they are trying to cover express fees as well - but that 500 limit is outrageous.

Nevertheless, I think somewhere along the line they must have misunderstood something. I do agree that 5% for any reason is crap, but on the other hand it is in their terms and conditions.

For the 19 pounds you lost, I really think Main Street Group ought to refund that - but also, I think it may not be worth the hassle to you to go through all the BS. You cashed out a winner (if I am not mistaken) - and even with the 19 pounds removed you are still a winner - so what I would probably do if I were in your shoes is just eat the 19 pounds and never play there again.

If they were smart - they'd refund it because 19 quid is definitely not worth the potential loss of business.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Fee

While in the T & C, I cannot see how this type of malarkey with currency exchanges is allowed for an outfit in Bryan's Accredited list.
Can they justify this charge based on increased processing costs, or is this a veiled way of insulting certain players by charging a "fraud risk insurance premium" on a certain class of player to cover the instances when they lose out to real fraud. If they are prepared to lightly "screw" one class of player, how can they be trusted not to spread the net wider in the future and catch a few more players out with this?

I would like Bryan to consider not accepting casinos that have these little "traps" buried in their T & C that seek to discriminate against honest players. I don't think this 5% is applied just to winners, it adds another 5% to the house edge on withdrawal, and this dwarfs the house edge on most of the non-slot games. I am wary of any outfits that seek to treat the Pound in this manner, for whatever reason.
I saw this with Grand Privvy, and it turned out to be a sneaky way of banning us Brits, but they didn't want to be up front and say so, they invented all sorts of T & C to make it hard for us to play under the same rules as other players. Even now they won't "call a spade a spade" and say we are banned. They have 2 separate terms, but both together effectively make it impossible for us to participate in the Grand Privvy experience, we can only deposit and play a "plain vanilla" MG casino.

Grand Privvy - that's a load of crap

 

[soflat]

I would like Bryan to consider not accepting casinos that have these little "traps" buried in their T & C that seek to discriminate against honest players. I don't think this 5% is applied just to winners, it adds another 5% to the house edge on withdrawal, and this dwarfs the house edge on most of the non-slot games. I am wary of any outfits that seek to treat the Pound in this manner, for whatever reason.

A lot of casinos prohibit folks from playing in GBP unless they are GB residents. That is because bonus hunters use GBP to get a larger bonus.

If I understand it correctly, Main Street is actually allowing anyone to use GBP, which is pretty nice of them in this day.

Since the 5% is applied only to withdrawals, that does not add 5% to the house edge unless you cashed in an amount larger than your total wagers. In most cases (where a player wagers a large amount in proportion to the cash-in), the house edge is affected by a much smaller amount.

 

[vinylweatherman]

GBP

In the above case a player is being paid in GBP, so surely they would want to play in the currency they have available. This is not playing the "pound edge", and should not be penalised. Playing the "pound edge" would be depositing from a dollar bank/card account but playing in GBP and taking the currency conversion hit as a cost of taking a GBP bonus.
This fee should not be "buried" either, this player should have been informed up front by CS before he played so that he could change his mind about playing. The internet has no borders, so why should it matter if a player works long term away from his own country and wants to play online while doing so. he would find it very hard to use a US bank or card anyway, as they don't allow casino transactions so I see using his GBP accounts as the only way.
I play in GBP, not because of the "pound edge", but because I would suffer erosion each time I deposited and withdrew due to currency exchange fees that most bakns and cards, and even Neteller, charge. These could actually approach the 5% level.

A better term would be to state that players in GBP must deposit from an account (bank, card, Neteller) that is itself denominated in GBP. This will stop the bonus players, but would not catch out those with "unusual" working circumstances. People working away from home are probably good customers to encourage, as they are probably away from family and friends, and have more leisure time to spend on such solitary activity. They are also probably wealthier than most, as the main reason people work away from home is a better salary, or being in a senior position (with expenses for working away to match).

Perhaps one day the UK will adopt the Euro, and all this will go away.

 

[soflat]

In the above case a player is being paid in GBP, so surely they would want to play in the currency they have available. This is not playing the "pound edge", and should not be penalised. Playing the "pound edge" would be depositing from a dollar bank/card account but playing in GBP and taking the currency conversion hit as a cost of taking a GBP bonus.

I agree, he was probably not after the poud edge, but the rule is in place to discourage people from exploiting the pound edge. In other words, I think the player just got caught up in a rule meant to penalize other players.

I feel the rule is fairly divulged, although it could be done better.

Restricting players to certain currencies based on geographic location is up to the casino, and I don't see why they should be removed from the accredited list for it. Afterall, many reputable casinos have such rules.

 

[Peaceful1]

Sometimes I have to wonder if the specific dealings with a particular casino in a group and the group itself can vary. Not to veer off of the specific top of the threader's post, but while we are on the topic of Main Street Group, I had a very positive experience with Slots.com (one of their casinos), but the thing that I find a catch-22 with them is their promotion of getting an extra $20 free bonus when you send them your scanned documents, but, one of the requirements of getting this is having deposited via credit card, and we all know how difficult it is getting a deposit through via this method.

 

[jetset]

Quote: Sometimes I have to wonder if the specific dealings with a particular casino in a group and the group itself can vary.UNQUOTE

I think this is a good point. Although several brands may feed into a particular group ownership's admin set-up, it is possible to have brand managers calling the front-line shots at the individual casinos, especially in the bigger groups.

I think we have to guard against forming too much of a one-sided, negative perception of the industry as a whole in this particular section, which is devoted to individual beefs against online casinos. To keep a sense of perspective, the more established of these venues are dealing with thousands if not tens of thousands of transactions from a very large number of players on a daily basis, and the average percentage of complaints in relation to total business transacted is probably very small.

I take the point that even one complaint is one too many, and needs to be fairly addressed, but the realist in me tells me that it is too easy to develop an unbalanced general perception from a concentrated reading of negative posts involving the (probably) fairly small percentage of savvy online players who use the fora.

That's certainly not intended to decry the value of exchanging information on bad experiences, because that helps the players obtain justice or avoid rip-offs...and it also serves to focus the casinos' attention on bad practice in need of improvement and its business consequences.

Regarding Main Street Group, unless there have been changes lately this outfit is headed by Marty Jensen, an experienced RTG operator who with fellow investors bought The Prescription a couple of years ago. Marty and his group had their (bad) moments several years ago, but to my knowledge there have been few complaints against this operation in more recent times.

 

[Vesuvio]

Just a few things which strike me as odd from your first post:

I assumed that the money was all getting converted into US dollars, so a selected GBP to indicate I was depositing in pounds. I expected it would be converted into $100 (US), since the banking page clearly states this is the procedure. Instead they took 100 GBP. I played with it, was awarded a bonus and cashed out 283 GBP.

If you were taking their terms literally wouldn't you deposit 57 or so if you wanted to play with $100? I can see how the terms could confuse anyone, but as far as I remember Playtech software and especially the cashier makes it very clear which currency you're using (before you deposit).

Without knowing DiamondDealcasino was part of the same group, I also opened up an account there. Same thing, only I didnt claim a bonus there. I deposited what I thought was $100 (US) only to find 100 GBP were deducted from my bank account. I withdrew 213 GBP.

You then go on to make the same mistake at another casino, despite saying you'd looked at the terms carefully (and must have spotted the similarity)? That, and the strange contradictions of obvious knowledge and apparent naivity in your post, make me assume you're a bonus hunter, though that's fine and there's no need to be coy about it

In any case it's good that you've drawn people's attention to the shady behaviour of having a term at the top of the banking page eliciting play in different currencies & a sting in the tail right at the very bottom. Unfortunately I don't think you have much of a case for recovering the 5% as that term doesn't really appear to be part of the "Overnight Express" section.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I agree, he was probably not after the poud edge, but the rule is in place to discourage people from exploiting the pound edge. In other words, I think the player just got caught up in a rule meant to penalize other players.

I feel the rule is fairly divulged, although it could be done better.

Restricting players to certain currencies based on geographic location is up to the casino, and I don't see why they should be removed from the accredited list for it. Afterall, many reputable casinos have such rules.

I thought this player WAS located and working in the UK when opening his account, but was originally from the states. This had nothing to do with geographic location. I am beginning to suspect that it had something to do with identity documents being issued by the USA, making it look like a player exploiting the pound edge.

Perhaps indeed this term should clarify that it is citizenship and NOT actual current location that determines your "country" when it come to playing online. To make matters worse, other casinos take it the other way, a Hong Kong player denied bonuses by Intercasino was told to play from another country to get bonuses reinstated. With no real standardisation, casinos must be absolutely clear with their terms, and players must remember that there is no such thing as "standard practice", just as there is no requirement for casinos to void WR if the account is zeroed, another source of argument. There are things that most casinos do and some don't; and things that most don't but some do.
Perhaps we should all make the casino wait for our first deposits rather than us acting on impulse. We should interrogate CS, and ask for a precis in writing before we deposit a cent! I am sure this would encourage more clarity and openness in T & C in order to get our money in ASAP.
Allied to this point is the fact that many casinos lie through their teeth when asked to explain the reasoning for what appears to be a silly term. In this case it is a charge to cover the cost of "overnight express". Clearly, in this case this was just total BS, as the funds went by slower means. The fact that an excuse, rather than the truth, is used to explain the deduction is enough to render their reputable status worthy of review.
500 max charge really shows up the deception. International courier charges the same whatever the amount of a cheque, usually around $30 to $50, and overnight bank wire is a similar amount. If the charge cap was around this amount, I would believe the excuse, but 500 cap is simply a fine dressed up as a charge for services rendered.

 

[CROGO]

Just a few things which strike me as odd from your first post:


If you were taking their terms literally wouldn't you deposit £57 or so if you wanted to play with $100? I can see how the terms could confuse anyone, but as far as I remember Playtech software and especially the cashier makes it very clear which currency you're using (before you deposit).

You then go on to make the same mistake at another casino, despite saying you'd looked at the terms carefully (and must have spotted the similarity)? That, and the strange contradictions of obvious knowledge and apparent naivity in your post, make me assume you're a bonus hunter, though that's fine and there's no need to be coy about it

In any case it's good that you've drawn people's attention to the shady behaviour of having a term at the top of the banking page eliciting play in different currencies & a sting in the tail right at the very bottom. Unfortunately I don't think you have much of a case for recovering the 5% as that term doesn't really appear to be part of the "Overnight Express" section.

I just double checked. It was 125 GBP I deposited at DiamondDealcasino, not 100 GBP. (For some reason I can’t edit the original post now.) What happened was that after I got the first part of the payment from lasvegasusacasino I deposited at DiamondDealcasino. The second part of the payment didn’t come in until a few days later.

Bonus hunter? You can think whatever you want, but if I was only playing for the bonuses why did I only claim a bonus at one casino?

I am not an expert on Playtech software, but I believe that the software used to wager with may be different than the software used for depositing. The software was not clear whether I was depositing $100 (U.S) or 100 GBP. (I now make a point of calling CS about this if it isn’t clear.) Yes, the software did show me playing in pounds, but was I really playing in pounds, or only the equivalent in U.S. dollars? The fundamental problem is that the banking terms clearly stated that all deposits would be converted into US dollars.

When you go into a brick and mortar casino you have to convert into the local currency before you play. (I travel a lot. When every other money changer is closed, the casino will be open to change money!) I understood that they were automatically converting the currency into U.S. dollars when I deposited. This is what the banking page clearly read. They were not “eliciting play in different currencies” as you stated. They were eliciting DEPOSITS in different currencies. If all deposits were to be converted in to dollars then why should anyone be penalized for the casino’s own failure to abide by its own rule?

Thank you VinylWeatherman for agreeing with me. Usually when you read a contract of other legal document you use the headings to group things. In the casinos referred to, the 5% penalty language appears under a bold faced heading for “Overnight Express” and above a bold faced heading “Special General Note”. If it was a general term, it needed to be under the “Special General Note”, assuming its OK to not list this penalty under the T+C’s for the casino. By hiding this language, and it was HIDDEN under the “Overnight Express”, the logical interpretation is that the 5% penalty only applied if you chose the “Overnight Express” payment AND you requested a payout in pounds. (And how could I know at the time of depositing that playing with GBP’s was an option, since the banking terms clearly stated all deposits would be converted to US dollars?) I neither requested “Overnight Express” payment nor did I receive it, and I would have been quite happy to receive payment in U.S. dollars. The decision to pay this out in pounds was theirs, not mine.

To Spearmaster: I don’t believe this was a misunderstanding. I feel this is a deliberate strategy to penalize people who are not UK citizens but deposit in pounds. If the casinos want to regulate currency deposits, OK, but they need to be open about it. The reality is they are playing “Gotcha” here. They are hiding the ball here. Yes, I made a profit here, but if I had deposited through a credit card and then disputed only 10% do you think the casino would put me on a blacklist, or do you think they would say, “Oh well he paid most of the bill”?

 

[soflat]

I thought this player WAS located and working in the UK when opening his account, but was originally from the states. This had nothing to do with geographic location. I am beginning to suspect that it had something to do with identity documents being issued by the USA, making it look like a player exploiting the pound edge.

The player never said he was in the UK, only that he had some GBPs. As far as we know he was in the USA or, if he was elsewhere, then he might have given a USA address during sign-up.

There are a number of things that were not mentioned (like why did he sign up and play at another casino without a sign-up bonus?).

 

[spearmaster]

To Spearmaster: I dont believe this was a misunderstanding. I feel this is a deliberate strategy to penalize people who are not UK citizens but deposit in pounds.

What I meant was that support must have misunderstood something. It makes no sense to penalize people who are not UK citizens but deposit in pounds - income is income, the more you deposit, the more they make.

If the casinos want to regulate currency deposits, OK, but they need to be open about it. The reality is they are playing Gotcha here. They are hiding the ball here. Yes, I made a profit here, but if I had deposited through a credit card and then disputed only 10% do you think the casino would put me on a blacklist, or do you think they would say, Oh well he paid most of the bill?

Which is why I don't buy this currency excuse from any casino. That being said - eat the 19 and never go back. You don't want all the hassle associated with recovering such a small amount of money - or do you?

 

[sripal32]

Could your problem be associated with Exchange Rate commissions?

I get into these problems when I try to get cash through Neteller Credit Card. I have a US Neteller account and whenever I try to withdraw some cash, they convert it to Canadian Dollars (and charge 2 dollars for it along with less than market value for exchange rates) and when I try to withdraw cash from the neteller card, it short changes me again.

In your case, I tend to believe that the following statement could be the source of the problem. (Or atlease I hope so)

'Player accounts are tracked in US dollars so deposits made in currencies other than US dollars will be converted at the current bank exchange rate.'

The sell rate and buy rate differs

Cheers!
Sri

 

[vinylweatherman]

The term

I have had a good look at the banking page. It seems very detailed, and makes it clear that all play and wins are in dollars, and deposits in other currencies will be converted into dollars.

On withdrawal, the following aplies:-

All players using (EURO) outside the Eurozone (12 countries in which euro is the official currency) or (Great Britain Pound) outside the United Kingdom will be charged an additional 5% fee on every approved withdrawal request up to a maximum fee of 500 or 500.

This simply mentions where you are when you play. If you register with a home address outside the UK, but deposit in pounds, this applies. Although under the overnight express heading, there is a gap which looks like it is a "special general note", but the writer has forgotten to precede this paragraph with this as it has for the others.

There is NO POUND EDGE involved here either, so there would be no benefit in depositing in pounds if you could deposit in dollars. It is possible that the 5% is, in fact, due to exchange rate charges, which a casino would normally cover itself. I suspect they want players to deposit in dollars, but are prepared to "eat" the exchange charges for UK and European players.
Now, if this 5% turns out to be in ADDITION to exchange rate charges, that is too cheeky to be allowed to pass. I think someone with connections should try to get an explanation of what is behind this term, as it isn't "bonus abuse" through currency edge.

 

[GrandMaster]

The intelligent way to handle this is for the casino to have separate accounts in USD, GBP, EUR, etc. Of course, since we are talking about online casinos, there is no guarantee that anything will be done in the intelligent way. The cost of conversion between accounts should be in the range of 0.1%, since there is no handling of physical cash involved.

 

[The Dude]

...I think someone with connections should try to get an explanation of what is behind this term, as it isn't "bonus abuse" through currency edge.

Has anyone bothered to PM VSummer, Mainstreet's rep here?

Well, I have - and I anticipate an explanation hopefully sometime today.

I am shocked that Brian has them on his approved list.

Shocked? C'mon, give me a break. No need for an unwarranted slam of a casino. No one mistreated you, hung the phone up in your face, or stonewalled you. Mainstreet is one of the best Playtech groups, if not THE best Playtech group of casinos in the business. I really don't think they are intentionally hiding terms, acting unprofessionally, or practicing deceit. They have a representative who makes herself available in this forum to answer questions or clear up problems like this. Please have the courtesy to contact these individuals when posting a complaint. This is clearly stated in the Forum Rules:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/

2. Posting Complaints

2.1 - Complaints against casinos or pokerrooms will only be posted in the "Online Casino and Poker Complaints" forum.

2.2 - Do not post a complaint without notifying the appropriate casino representative by either PM or email. The casino representatives are listed here.

2.3 - Ensure your complaint is free from offensive or abusive language, and that the complaint is tactful and truthful. Making false claims are grounds for banishment or drawn and quartering.

The reason for this rule (2.2) is so that we can come to a resolution quickly. And that's what we want, right?

but the thing that I find a catch-22 with them is their promotion of getting an extra $20 free bonus when you send them your scanned documents, but, one of the requirements of getting this is having deposited via credit card, and we all know how difficult it is getting a deposit through via this method.

The credit card difficulties only apply to credit cards issued in the US. I have no problem depositing via MasterCard.

 

[Vesuvio]

There is NO POUND EDGE involved here either, so there would be no benefit in depositing in pounds if you could deposit in dollars.

But there is a "pound edge" if you're claiming a bonus, isn't there? It's a very strange approach to dealing with it and it's going to trap some people who weren't thinking of maximising their advantage, but in some ways it's preferable to banning the use of pounds completely for non-UK players.

What I would say is that if they're going to take 5% off it should only be after a bonus has been claimed, as otherwise there's absolutely no justification.

 

[CROGO]

Thanks for getting to the bottom of this Bryan.

For what its worth, I did email and call CS at the various Main Street casinos in January and I did tell them I would PAB here if the matter wasnt resolved. I think I waited long enough for them to fix the problem. No, I didnt contact VSummer. I didnt realize I was supposed to email her specifically and I didnt see Main Street listed. Next time I will know better.

I did feel I was getting stonewalled by CS, and others here have commented the rule is meant to trap unsuspecting people. So I know I am not alone. Yes please get the matter resolved quickly.

But I dont get the whole bit about wagering in a currency. You buy chips with a currency. Those chips are worth what you and the casino agree they are worth. They arent legal tender. I cant buy a $25 chip at Trumps Taj Majal and use it to pay my taxes. An online casino chip is worth even less because it is virtual not real. The chip can be worth $1, $100, or the equivalent of one GBP, but before I can get that value, I need to cash the chip in with the cashier at that casino. Normally, the currency you buy the chip with is the currency you cash the chip in with. If the currency was converted into dollars after depositing, as stated, I should have been able to withdrawal in dollars. If the currency was kept in pounds, there should be no penalty if there was no currency conversion into dollars.

So did the currency really change through a bank?
If so when?
And how many times was it changed?

Fair enough?

Bryan, I love the Ben Franklin quote. I saw it on a Samuel Adams Beer calendar a few years back. The best quote, by William Blake, went like this:

"But if at the Church they would give us some Ale,
And a pleasant fire our souls to regale,
We'd sing and we'd pray all the live-long day,
Nor ever once wish from the Church to stray."

 

[spearmaster]

But there is a "pound edge" if you're claiming a bonus, isn't there? It's a very strange approach to dealing with it and it's going to trap some people who weren't thinking of maximising their advantage, but in some ways it's preferable to banning the use of pounds completely for non-UK players.

What I would say is that if they're going to take 5% off it should only be after a bonus has been claimed, as otherwise there's absolutely no justification.

There is an edge in the value of the currency - but there is not necessarily any additional edge from playing (ie. you can't bet 75 pence units at blackjack, only 1 pound units).

If they can justify the reason for taking of 5% (currency exchange) then they really ought to apply this across the board. If they cannot justify this then there is no reason that anyone should be charged 5% no matter what currency they play in.

From experience, I have determined that the average currency exchange will cost you between 1-1.5% in value. This is before any fees deducted on either side for providing the service. So while I still think 5% deductions suck, I can see why they do it and don't think that this is unreasonable, provided it is clearly stated and applied in a fair manner.

Just for the record, Neteller's conversion charges are quite high - especially when you move money to your debit card. I easily lose 5% from the time someone sends me money to the time I have the cash in my hot little hands. I have complained about this before but it doesn't appear that there is much they can do about it.

 

[soflat]

CROGO, If you don't mind, can you tell us what country you signed-up and played from?

And, of all the casinos out there, how did you end up playing at two casinos within the same group?

There is an edge in the value of the currency - but there is not necessarily any additional edge from playing (ie. you can't bet 75 pence units at blackjack, only 1 pound units).

If they can justify the reason for taking of 5% (currency exchange) then they really ought to apply this across the board. If they cannot justify this then there is no reason that anyone should be charged 5% no matter what currency they play in.

If GBP depositors get 70% more than USD, that is a decent edge.

I don't think it matters why they have the rule. Is it because of bonus 'abuse' or currency conversion fees? The casino can set whatever fees they wish as long as they state it in their T&Cs.

 

[derelict]

They probably could make the 5% fee more apparent but I think I tend to think this isn't that big a deal and maybe you should let it go. I've played at a couple properties of theirs and my impression is that they are basically honest if sometimes lacking in their handling of customers.

I do think it would make more sense to disallow people from using currencies other than that of their home country. Really they're only hurting themselves by allowing players to claim bonuses in GBP while hitting them with a withdrawal fee. With all the other options out there, who's going to want to play somewhere that hits you with semi hidden fees?

On the topic of reputable Playtechs, I would seriously like some suggestions. It's my favorite software but I still haven't found one that inspires confidence. Main Street isn't bad but they tend not to read my emails before they reply. Not to mention the pants shit worthy email they send out when you make a withdrawal.

 

[GrandMaster]

But there is a "pound edge" if you're claiming a bonus, isn't there?

Why is it beyond most casinos' capabilities to give 60 or 55 instead of a $100 bonus?

 

[scrollock]

Has anyone bothered to PM VSummer, Mainstreet's rep here?

Well, I have - and I anticipate an explanation hopefully sometime today.



Shocked? C'mon, give me a break. No need for an unwarranted slam of a casino. No one mistreated you, hung the phone up in your face, or stonewalled you. Mainstreet is one of the best Playtech groups, if not THE best Playtech group of casinos in the business. I really don't think they are intentionally hiding terms, acting unprofessionally, or practicing deceit. They have a representative who makes herself available in this forum to answer questions or clear up problems like this. Please have the courtesy to contact these individuals when posting a complaint. This is clearly stated in the Forum Rules:
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/

2. Posting Complaints

2.1 - Complaints against casinos or pokerrooms will only be posted in the "Online Casino and Poker Complaints" forum.

2.2 - Do not post a complaint without notifying the appropriate casino representative by either PM or email. The casino representatives are listed here.

2.3 - Ensure your complaint is free from offensive or abusive language, and that the complaint is tactful and truthful. Making false claims are grounds for banishment or drawn and quartering.

The reason for this rule (2.2) is so that we can come to a resolution quickly. And that's what we want, right?




The credit card difficulties only apply to credit cards issued in the US. I have no problem depositing via MasterCard.

right i will have to be guarded on my response to this group, as i have never had any dealings with them in either a player capacity or a professional capacity so i will be upfront about this.

i have heard enough on other forums not to play here,and thats excluding the playtech factor.

so i would love to hearryans explanation why they are included here, when not a single non-betting person in the UK has ever heard of them, yet even lesser operations without highstreet presence (like getminted,virgin etc) are household names.

i stand to be corrected, but it has been mentioned on these boards before, is any of these operations are they just companies who are in cheap offices above some shops who could dissappear at minutes notice, that is certaibly the impression i get.

but as i said i have never had any dealings with this group at all,whereas bryan says that any group he allows onboard here,that he has personally vetted them, so whats the lowdown on this group (obviously within reason with what you can say)

 

[scrollock]

right i will have to be guarded on my response to this group, as i have never had any dealings with them in either a player capacity or a professional capacity so i will be upfront about this.

i have heard enough on other forums not to play here,and thats excluding the playtech factor.

so i would love to hearryans explanation why they are included here, when not a single non-betting person in the UK has ever heard of them, yet even lesser operations without highstreet presence (like getminted,virgin etc) are household names.

i stand to be corrected, but it has been mentioned on these boards before, is any of these operations are they just companies who are in cheap offices above some shops who could dissappear at minutes notice, that is certaibly the impression i get.

but as i said i have never had any dealings with this group at all,whereas bryan says that any group he allows onboard here,that he has personally vetted them, so whats the lowdown on this group (obviously within reason with what you can say)

actually forget all that,put it simply, no reputable UK webmaster would promote this group above other Uk ops, so why is it promoted here ?

 

[soflat]

so i would love to hearryans explanation why they are included here, when not a single non-betting person in the UK has ever heard of them, ...

What is the UK, like the center of the gambling universe or something?

 

[scrollock]

What is the UK, like the center of the gambling universe or something?

erm no not yet, but is getting that way.

if we are talking "mainstreet" uk casinos, this group is certainly not mainstreet.

 

[The Dude]

The Mainstreet group of Playtech casinos are run by Marty Jensen who has been in the online gaming business for a good number of years. He has a high profile and runs his operation in a fair and professional manner. I had observed these casinos for a long period of time before bringing them on, and I am convinced that I made the right decision:

1. They run their own service and support unlike most othe Playtech casinos.
2. Complaints are virtually non-existant.
3. The operator is accessable and is commited to this industry.

no reputable UK webmaster would promote this group above other Uk ops, so why is it promoted here

What makes you say this? I could probably count the complaints that these casinos have generated over the past several years on one hand - and each and every one of them was resolved. Compare this to William Hill's vaccuum chamber of customer support and the comparison is alarming.

Just because a casino is located in the UK doesn't mean it has its shit together.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Shit Together.

These "UK Casinos", are actually regulated in places like Gibraltar. They are run under licence from the household names. William Hill are not the only reputable UK betting shop brand that has a casino with "vacuum chamber" support; Littlewoods are even worse. Intercasino UK at least has the option to E-mail Jane Bentley (and actually get a meaningful reply) if the normal Cryptologic support centre seems lacking.

Perhaps an explanation of this issue of the 5% fee to discourage use of the pound, when it doesn't actually seem to give a player an edge on bonuses, would help to clear this up and show that this is one of the few Playtechs that can be trusted.

 

[VJennifer]

General Note Regarding 5% Fees for Withdrawals

Dear Players

Apparently, there has been some confusion with regards to when the 5% fee will be applied to withdrawals. Based on the feedback we have received, we have reorganized our banking page to better explain when the fee will be applied. Please note that this applies for all our withdrawal methods.

We trust that this will clarify when the fee will be applied. This information is now available under our Special General Note section which speaks to minimum wagering requirements and withdrawals made by players outside the Eurozone or the UK for Euros and Pounds (respectively).

We apologize for any misunderstanding or inconvenience this may have caused. Feel free to contact our Support Team at any time with any questions or comments you may have.


Thank you for your continued support!

Regards,

Main Street Vegas group

 

[Vesuvio]

We trust that this will clarify when the fee will be applied. This information is now available under our Special General Note section which speaks to minimum wagering requirements and withdrawals made by players outside the Eurozone or the UK for Euro’s and Pounds (respectively).

So the only change you've made is to add a "Special General Note" heading and possibly add Euros to the currencies where you're charging the fee? (or were Euros included before?)

There's no particular reason to assume the 5% part comes under the new heading anymore than that it came under Overnight Express, though it's true no-one's going to make that mistake now. Perhaps you could standardise font sizes.

You've still got this nonsensical text at the top of the page:

We accept deposits in any currency. Player accounts are tracked in US dollars so deposits made in currencies other than US dollars will be converted at the current bank exchange rate.

Even if this is the case (which seems extremely unlikely) it's completely irrelevant to players. Perhaps you could consider leaving it out and if you want to have a note on currencies at the top then make it a note about the fact that if you play in the "wrong" currency you'll be penalised. The fact that any deposit needs to be wagered 5 times to avoid fees could also do with some extra prominence.

 

[The Dude]

Admin note

Renamed thread from "is deceitful" to "confusing terms".

 

[kreome]

I have to say that nowdays I have only good eperience with this group of casinos.

My question to the Casinomeister is how far in history did he check ?

I know that in the past this group of casinos voided payment of Danish players with no reason or something like Bonus abuse reason.

Do you judge a casino only for the past 2 years then they are absolutely ok (atleast with me and I have not seen any real complaint of no pay that was not resolved) or do you judge by past history too and then there might be a problem to approve them.

The information I have is from bet2gamble.com and also some forums I remember from the past

 

[nektar4d]

just 2 tips

I dont know about their past but I am a satisfied player for the last 2 months that I have joined this group. I think there are a couple of matters that could improve the overall image:

1) Perhaps its time to re-consider the above mentioned withdraw fees. Competition is hard out there and although there are a few reliable playtech casinos, most of them don't apply such fees.

2) Partial withdraws (where the deposit is returned firstly and then the winning separately after 3-5 business days).
I have experienced next day withdraw from your casinos in my first withdraws and I was satisfied. What may be the need to change this now to the partial-withdraw model? (again competition may help)

If many players complain about these 2 details, situation may change.
Then the forums and these casinos will get more happy players.

'Happy players' love simple terms

 

[The Dude]

I have to say that nowdays I have only good eperience with this group of casinos.

My question to the Casinomeister is how far in history did he check ?

I know that in the past this group of casinos voided payment of Danish players with no reason or something like Bonus abuse reason.

Do you judge a casino only for the past 2 years then they are absolutely ok (atleast with me and I have not seen any real complaint of no pay that was not resolved) or do you judge by past history too and then there might be a problem to approve them.

The information I have is from bet2gamble.com and also some forums I remember from the past

I go back to the beginning. And actually, the Danes who were involved with this were paid. This is an excerpt from an interview that Brian Cullingworth did with Gambling911 two years ago:

Brian Cullingworth Question: The Danish bonus and winnings disqualifications two or more years back created a great deal of hostility to MSV among Danish folks and the playing community in general. In more recent times we understand that you have admitted this was a mistake, and that you have now paid all claims made within your deadlines for this incident? Are Danish players now welcome at your casinos, or are any "special" conditions applied to them (ie no bonuses or heavier wager thru' requirements?)

Marty Jensen: The Danish players are welcome but....there are higher player requirements for this particular group for them to receive and cash out any type of bonus.

 

[kreome]

If this is the case then I find them reputable and much better than many casinos I know, not to mention who.

Playtech runs a honest software and once the casino pays it is enough to play there and this group pay ok.

They also have good weekly bonuses.

 

[The Watchdog]

Playtech and Mainstreet

I really enjoy following Brians work... He really is something on spotting bad businesses and evil casinos.

Playtech, for me, is the best gaming software available. They might not have as much sites as microgaming or Rtg... but check it for your self. Their games are nice, their payouts are great and their software can not be compared to other.

They recenlty went public on the London Stock Exchange and are doing awesome. By the 2nd day on the LSE their site was updated and some new casinos have been launched since.

Regarding the Mainstreet group, I work in Costa Rica and have some knowledge of the industry. The Mainstreet Group, regardless what anyone say, runs a legit and honest business. They are always on top to make sure their customer service staff provides the best service and make sure to satisfy all their customers needs.

I have always said that Playtech should be more on top of casinos who give a bad reputation to their brand. Is a shame that such a good software is considered by some people to be bad or a scam only because some companies believe they can run a decent operation.

If you call any Mainstreet Vegas Group casino through chat, email or phone you will always receive a professional answer, never a busy dial tone, and their chats are always answered regardless the time of the day within seconds.

I am not an online casino fan, however this will be a site I will make business with. All you need to do is contact them and see for your self the service.

Somethings, as in all companies, are not right. Their payouts procedure is not the best, however they will pay any amount won fair and square. They do match up deposits first, and then like 2 days later winnings. However you can be sure that their operation is a legit one. You don't have to listen to me, just take a look what the Meister said.

 

[CROGO]

Well this complaint is NOT resolved.

Mainstreet is still refusing to cough up the commission they charged me on my winnings.

The change in terms is too late for them to apply this to my account retroactively. In fact, changing the terms after the fact is an admission that terms were not sufficient to form a valid agreement between us. I NEVER AGREED TO THIS! These Terms and Conditions form contracts between the parties, and I cannot, under the law of contract, be found to have agreed to what Mainstreet group’s rep now admits were “confusing” terms.

So then what has Mainstreet done to deserve to charge me a commission on my winnings?

Please let me explain you that the charge is issued because our main accounts are in US Dollars and every time we make currency exchanges to EUROS & Great Britain Pound we have to pay an overprice in the exchange rate it is used for the conversion.
Unfortunately, we are not able to refund you the amount deducted because of the reason stated.
Kind Regards,
Summer Blair

Maybe the “main” accounts are in $US, but she didn’t say they didn’t have accounts in GB pounds or euros! The problem with this cover story is that Mainstreet group doesn’t NEED to pay an overprice on currency exchange rates, it CHOOSES to pay an overprice on the exchange rate. The Mainstreet group casinos in question both state:

“Financial transactions are processed through RX Advertising Limited, 48 Bedford Road, Ruislip, Middlesex, HA4 6NA, UK; owner of this casino.”

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So the reality here is that I deposited in GB pounds, I wagered in GB pounds, and I was paid in GB pounds by a British company. It appears that RX Advertising Limited, a British company and the owner of these casinos, is the party profiting from this “confusion” by selectively overcharging the patrons of its subsidiary casinos. Since RX Advertising Limited has unfairly profited at my expense, how can I file a complaint against this company with British authorities?

And no Bryan, I still don’t understand why this group of casinos is on the recommended list here. Their rep here appears to think I am stupid, and she is very mistaken. The problem is not that they are “unable” to refund the commission on winnings they charged, the problem is that RX Advertising Limited, the owner of the casinos, REFUSES to pay me what I won!

 

[vinylweatherman]

UK Addresses

These UK addresses are only processing companies. A few other casinos use these too.
I can now speak from experience, and in theory there DOES appear to be an opportunity to "abuse" the currency edge as the bonus on sign up is $125 or 125. Although the casino charges this 5% if you are not UK resident, my withdrawals are in GBP rather than USD, so there is no conversion charge at Neteller.

I do believe, however, that the issue of how currency is handled at some casinos needs clarification. Often what you see is not what you get due to behind the scenes currency exchanges.

I have just tried Intertops, and GBP is allowed for me. When I deposited, it exchanged the currency to the base account USD, however, my Neteller was deductd in GBP and no "leakage" of funds was experienced.

If you are to be charged 5% for having the account in GBP, it might be better paying for the exchange at your end and registering to play in USD. Main Street will not then take a 5% cut, and you will pay around 2.5% at your end, maybe less if you open an eWallet account in USD and pay the exchange fee once when funding it for all USD casino accounts.

It's a shame I can't have two Neteller accounts, one in GBP and one in USD, it would save a little in exchanges as I like to keep my money on the move as this seems to make the casinos a little hotter.

I am impressed by the Playtech slots, I have been playing slots only and have not lost a dime, in fact I am ahead! This would be pretty unusual at MG without a big hit or two. The only downside is the software occasionally freezes solid for no apparent reason, usually on slots autoplay.

 

[CROGO]

These UK addresses are only processing companies. A few other casinos use these too.

So then why does Mainstreet group list them as the owner of the casino? (It is the same address listed at each casino.)

Something is very wrong here!

 

[vinylweatherman]

Worth a look

Might be worth a look, this is possibly a holding company, but if the casino is actually based there they would need a UK licence, which are not available till 2007.

Try looking them up on the UK Companies house website (I may try this). If they are a PLC, then it should be possible to get an annual report out of them to see exactly what they do, and how much they make and on what. Far better than being based in Belize where it is impossible to find out anything useful.

 

[CROGO]

No I don't think the casino is based there, but they appear to be using the holding company to double charge high exchange fees. If you deposit in pounds they convert it into dollars, charge a fee, and if you win they change it back and charge another fee. Its just a good way to charge a fee to a subsidiary and move the profits around. This would be fine if they kept to themselves, but they appear to be using this to punish certain customers at the casinos.

This is unacceptable.

If I deposited 100 GBP why should I pay a 5% fee to withdrawal it?

I never had the choice of collecting the winnings in dollars, and I would have preferred that.

 

[GrandMaster]

Financial transactions are processed through RX Advertising Limited, 48 Bedford Road, Ruislip, Middlesex, HA4 6NA, UK; owner of this casino.

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Companies House information:
RX ADVERTISING LIMITED
48 BEDFORD ROAD
RUISLIP
MIDDLESEX HA4 6NA
Company No. 05103364


Status: Dissolved 17/01/2006

This is not good.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Oh Dear

This had better just be a lack of a website update!
As Bryan has them listed, perhaps he can find out if this is the case as he seems to know the owner(s).

My withdrawal from Diamond Deal appears to be being processed properly, deposit refunded in a day or so, and a five day audit for winnings. A pain, but better than waiting 5 days for both deposit and winnings! The returned deposit can be put to immediate use!

 

[CROGO]

Companies House information:
RX ADVERTISING LIMITED
48 BEDFORD ROAD
RUISLIP
MIDDLESEX HA4 6NA
Company No. 05103364


Status: Dissolved 17/01/2006

This is not good.

Look at these too:

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Each of these Mainstreet casinos states that it is owned by a dissolved company that is processing the financial transactions!

Again, they charged me hidden fees and misrepresented who owned the casino and who was processing my payment!

Why are these casinos on the approved list here?