Lucky247.com withdrawal has been confiscated (7000 euros)

udobinder

Banned - Player fraud - bogus PAB
PABnoaccred
Hi everyone, sorry that my first post being a negative one. I have been reading the forum for a long time but never registered. Looks like the time has come :( I have signed up with Lucky247 and was lucky enough to win 7700 euros! I decided to try them since they are on the accredited list and I was feeling safe. I was asked to send verification documents and I did send everything. Then I went to live chat and I was told that unfortunate decision they made.

- Melanie: We have had a look at your account.Before any withdrawals are processed, Your play will be reviewed for any irregular playing patterns. In the interests of fair gaming, equal, zero or low margin bets or hedge betting, shall all be considered irregular gaming for bonus play-through requirement purposes. Other examples of irregular game play include but are not limited to, placing single bets equal to or in excess of 20% or more of the value of the bonus credited to their account until such time as the wagering requirements for that bonus have been met. For the purposes of this rule, a bet is defined as one roulette spin or one dealer's dealt hand in any table game, or one deal in any Video or Power Poker game (this includes Multi-Hand/Play games). Any double or gamble shall be considered a new bet. Should the Casino deem that irregular game play has occurred; the Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings

-Melanie: Irregular gameplay.Movement from high to low wagers after large win prior to meeting wagering requirements.
Players stake from 22.5 (txn 294) after large win(5510) to 2.5(txn 303 - ) and consistent low (below 10) wagers until wagering met


I was still hoping that may be a senior member of staff will be able to help me out. The decision was discussed with their boss so it's final...
Do you think it's better to proceed to PAB straight away? Or is it better to contact their representative?
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Spirit of the bonus BS as usual. Did you exceed 20% of the bonus on any spin/game?

Be aware that you insinuated this was a SUB - did you know that even if you hadn't have invoked the spirit-of-bonus BS, they would have limited your cash-out to 6x your deposit???

You would have been screwed either way.


That's why this shower and all those with the same crap terms should be avoided.....:(
 

Batman

The Dark Knight
MM
First you should contact their rep, and see if anything can be done;
If the rep gives you the same answer, you should submit a PAB.

Decreasing the bet size until you finish the wagering, guessing that's what you did wrong.

I personally don't see anything bad in that.
They're claiming that you're an AP (advantage player), which plays only to win, instead of playing for the fun of it most probably.
Hope it will be sorted out! Good luck!
 

udobinder

Banned - Player fraud - bogus PAB
PABnoaccred
The bonus credited was 250, maximum bet - 22.50 per spin. No I didn't know about 6x rule but 1500 is better than nothing :oops:
 

The Blue Anchor

Non-Gambler
how this place is still accredited is beyond me. A perfectly legitimate win disallowed because the OP had the temerity to meet the WR without busting out.
 

lammersef

Dormant account
Must not confiscate winnings for vague & unclear reasons, such as "irregular playing patterns" or "bonus abuse", without specific T&C violations.
 

ugaboga

Casino Addict
how this place is still accredited is beyond me. A perfectly legitimate win disallowed because the OP had the temerity to meet the WR without busting out.
Agreed. Should have lost their accreditation, same goes for any other casino that employs the 5x rule and 'spirit of the bonus' clause.
 

lammersef

Dormant account
I do think this is a very serious issue, at least for me. I hope that "accredited section" will not become just a marketing catch. If there are rules to follow there should be a responsibility from the casino side. I have read quite a few complaints about lucky247 and their responses are always ignorant and non-specific. If there is a candidate to leave from accredited section it's probably them.

Anyway, Meister is doing a great job keeping us safe or at least informed about bad casinos so thumbs up for that. I just think that accredited section (at least some of it's members) are getting on slippery road to rogue.
 

ugaboga

Casino Addict
I do think this is a very serious issue, at least for me. I hope that "accredited section" will not become just a marketing catch. If there are rules to follow there should be a responsibility from the casino side. I have read quite a few complaints about lucky247 and their responses are always ignorant and non-specific. If there is a candidate to leave from accredited section it's probably them.

Anyway, Meister is doing a great job keeping us safe or at least informed about bad casinos so thumbs up for that. I just think that accredited section (at least some of it's members) are getting on slippery road to rogue.
More and more casinos are starting to add this term. If we don't take a stand against it as a community, it will slowly become the norm.
 

quber

Senior Member
So now they don't feel that a 6X withdrawal is enough protection so they limit the range of the bets. Going from 22.50 to 2.50 is less than a 10% reduction so what range is allowed? according to this I wouldn't be allowed to lower a bet from £3.00 to 0.30p as that would, apparently, be giving me a huge advantage :rolleyes:
 

Batman

The Dark Knight
MM
So now they don't feel that a 6X withdrawal is enough protection so they limit the range of the bets. Going from 22.50 to 2.50 is less than a 10% reduction so what range is allowed? according to this I wouldn't be allowed to lower a bet from £3.00 to 0.30p as that would, apparently, be giving me a huge advantage :rolleyes:
It makes sense;

If you get a mega win with a big bet and change the bet size by 90%, you'll grind the bonus easier...
By being able to make multiple bets on one slot, you'll eventually reach the 97% TRTP :rolleyes:.

Of course, in gambling nothing is certain, which means that you can go bust with this method also.
This is the sole reason I am against this stupid term... and consider that no accredited casino should have this tagged as being "Irregular Play" :D
 

quber

Senior Member
It makes sense;

If you get a mega win with a big bet and change the bet size by 90%, you'll grind the bonus easier...
By being able to make multiple bets on one slot, you'll eventually reach the 97% TRTP :rolleyes:.

Of course, in gambling nothing is certain, which means that you can go bust with this method also.
This is the sole reason I am against this stupid term... and consider that no accredited casino should have this tagged as being "Irregular Play" :D
But they are limiting the size of your original bet within the bonus so they shouldn't also be limiting the range of the allowed bets within that limit.

Also how many spins do i need to make at any bet size? If i play at £20 till I get a big win, then drop the stake by £1 every spin am I ok or do i have to have 5 spins at every lowered stake?

Next they will be telling us what bet size we need to make and we can't deviate from it.
 
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dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
I agree, this shower should NOT be accredited. There are too many complaints and bad terms. I would not say 'rogue' but certainly 'not recommended' or 'proceed with caution'.
 

SlotsLover

Senior Member
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
PABnorogue
PABnononaccred3
MM
low casino payments per period

So now they don't feel that a 6X withdrawal is enough protection so they limit the range of the bets. Going from 22.50 to 2.50 is less than a 10% reduction so what range is allowed? according to this I wouldn't be allowed to lower a bet from £3.00 to 0.30p as that would, apparently, be giving me a huge advantage :rolleyes:
Given the way that most casinos pay out (500/1000/2500) per pay period, it makes complete sense to drop in wager denomination after a good win. Why risk 2500 or so to win 10,000 or more and then have to wait and wait and wait. The casino makes the rules, then they get upset if players abide by them. Also, I know currently there is a lot of talk about the bonus rules being a problem, but casinos that want to unethical will be that no matter what. I've seen complaints not related to bonuses where casinos said players were playing a "system" or "card counting," etc. The casinos need to stick to their own rules, period the end. No "spirit of the bonus BS!" Also, I don't think any casino with a maximum withdrawal on a cash bonus should be accredited. As I've discussed on other posts, the reason to play slots is for the once in a lifetime spin, and all of those 1000x hits or more on the most fun thread on this site would be drastically truncated, let alone a run of a number of such hits in a session.
 

hedgehok

Meister Member
mm3
Well - first of all sorry to hear about this Udobinder.

The quoted term can be found under
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term 14

What you unquestionably did was a so called "two-tier" betting strategy aiming for an early big hit and then grinding through the WR in order to finally cash out. This is frowned upon even at very high-reputed accredited casinos (e.g. betat has a similar term and has also voided winnings in the past because of it). So it's not surprising that they voided your winnings.

They however should make this a lot more clear in their T&C. The fortune lounge group (FL) has a similar term, but better formulated.

"31. Irregular Play is deemed when the casino detects unnatural player betting patterns. Irregular play includes, but is not limited to, any one or more of the following types of play:
(...)
Placing high value bets with the single intention of increasing your balance, thereafter proceeding to place bets of less than half of the prior bet value, while reasonably not decreasing your bankroll, in order to meet bonus wagering requirements
"
So what has to change is that Lucky247 implements a more detailed describtion what they consider "irregular game play patterns".
I think the FL formulation is good. Similar formulated T&C from betat:

12. bonus abuse and advantage play:
12.4. Should the Casino become aware of any user who has accepted the bonus or a promotion with sole purpose of creating a positive expected value on bonus return by using known practices aimed at securing a cash out of said bonus, then BETAT Casino will enforce condition number 12.5 and will enforce immediate exclusion from this and future BETAT Casino promotions.
12.4.3 A user who wagers high value hands(greater than €6) with the sole purpose of rapidly increasing bonus bankroll, then proceeds to drastically decrease their bet value(less than half) without having reasonably decreased their bankroll will be deemed to be employing unnatural and advantageous betting patterns. Such cases may enforce condition 12.5, but each case will be investigated and acted upon accordingly. We strongly discourage this type of play.
Please keep the discussion as productive as possible. We know that the x6 max WD on the sing-up sucks like hell - but that's not main-issue in this case.
 

MightyDuck

Registered
It should at least be stated at their accredited page that the maximum withdrawal for their 1st deposit bonus is 6 times deposit so that at least CM-users can see this information straight away.

I also miss the rep being more into the discussion rather then hide behind the trees.
 

Harry_BKK

Meister Member
CAG
mm1
Lucky247 uninstalled

I uninstalled yesterday Lucky247 after receiving and playing the 20$ birthday bonus, no deposit made since April.

Exactly what the OP describes led me to that decision. I had one case were i deposited 100$ and got the 50% match, hence max bet 20% = 10$.

Played Centre Court and was upping my bets as the slot was running well until i was betting 9$, so quite close to the 20% limit. Finished wagering with a nice withdrawal and went to LiveChat to have it flushed. Within 10 seconds the agent came back telling me, winnings confiscated as i placed bets over the 20% mark. BS i told him, learn your maths first, took him 2 minutes to figure it out, still never apologized nor flushed the withdrawal. He probably just saw the "high" bets and his first thought was.... "yeah, this we can confiscate". This was a Saturday, it was paid then on Wednesday after numerous emails to the VIP host :confused: :mad:

The name of the VIP host was changing every few weeks, that speaks already for itself; at Fortune Lounge i had the same VIP host for the last 15 years, that tells you that the company is looking after its employees and is certainly more likely to look after its players.

Another time they tried to take my winnings because i played only 1 slot!!!! WTF :confused: :what: Do i have to play now as the casino pleases. Was told when playing with a bonus i would have to play at least 5 slots. Asked where i can find the term, never got an answer. :confused:

Had the impression the CS hosts were instructed to do this kind of thing as a general policy.

You want more stories? Got plenty more, unfortunately. Was first a supporter of them but within 3 months they managed to disappoint me badly.

Additionally, i was always concerned every time i had a withdrawal pending whether it will be paid or not. No more, starting 3 months back only 32RED and FortuneLounge for download MG casinos, nothing else. Don't need the hassle and sleepless nights worrying if they will pay up without trying to f...k me over first. Amen!!!

TO THE OP: try this email address: Lucky247 VIP Support <vipsupport@lucky247.com> ...address it to Mo or Bill. They were always quite helpful. Good Luck with getting your money .....

Toi, toi toi und Gruesse aus Bangkok
Harry :)
 
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