Bonus Complaint Lucky Nugget Denying £14k Win Due to Hidden Term

Ok well they have said the terms were definitely updated on the 1st of Feb across all their brands, (even though Jackpot City wasn't) and that they aren't going to pay me. :(
Do people think this is befitting of an accredited casino? I'm so distraught I think I'm going to cry. What do you think the next step is?

You have only one way left to resolve this terrible issue! :( Maybe not the fastest one, but definitely the one, which cannot be given a run around. I am talking about eCOGRA and submitting an official complaint there - it is about time to use the heavy artillery IMHO, since it is obviously that Digimedia don't give a s*** what CM or other major portals are thinking of this predatory term and situation as a whole!:mad: If they dare to lie in front of eCOGRA, I doubt these guys will face a bright future, sooner or later the truth will come up and they will get, what they deserve!:cool:
 
There is another avenue.

Complain to your local Trading Standards.

Lucky Nugget advertise on the telly, so come under the remit of local rules on how they deal with consumers. Since this term is a vague "might be applied at the discretion of management", it could come under the Unfair Business Practices act. This would cover their UK customers, and with the imminent arrival of a new regulatory regime that will prevent them from hiding behind the LGA (known to be useless at ensuring players get fair treatment), what Trading Standards think of this will become much more important.

The UKGC are not likely to grant secondary licenses to offshore operators that flout UK consumer laws, and no license means no more TV ads for Digimedia.

If you backed a winner at the local bookie, they couldn't decide to only pay some customers a maximum of 6/1 odds, and the rest the full odds, purely at the discretion of management. It would have to be a fixed rule for all punters, and if they were going to only pay 6/1, they could not advertise greater odds.

You would NEVER see a land casino pulling certain customers at the exit and confiscating anything above 6x what they walked in with. Instead, they would have to approach you at the point where you won this much, and ask you to leave with what you had won so far.

I am disappointed that Digimedia have been pulling one stunt after another seemingly without reproach. They got away with the 10 day bullshit and lying to Simmo about it, so it seems they felt they could push the envelope even further, reaching the point at which they added this term.

What is truly astonishing is that they have no idea of WHEN they introduced this term, yet the standards for accreditation say they must not only know, but must publish the date of change. Since they don't know, they CANNOT treat any player fairly where this term is concerned until March the 1st, being the earliest date that is not "some time in February".

Apart from the amount, this is nearly the same as a nasty Top Game term where players who deposit less than $250 cannot cash out more than a certain multiple of their deposit. Top Game are in the rogue pit for this term and other rogue practises.
 
Only if this term is applied fairly and to ALL players. If this term IS being applied as it should be, across the board for ALL players, then this group should no longer be accredited. Max cashouts may be acceptable on free chips where the player has not risked their own money, but they cannot be acceptable where players have deposited."


Have to disagree- yes I also hate max cash outs but as long as it is stated as a condition then you accept it and take your chances- I believe Slotocash and a number of other casino's also have max cash out deposit bonuses and I don't believe that this type of bonus prohibits accreditation.


I thinks the comments by some of going rogue is unfair and should be used for genuine rogue behaviour not every time a player can't collect what they think they should irrespective of the terms- if the term is there and upfront its OK (whether it sucks or not is an entirely different question)- as to the discretion comment many of the accredited casinos have a discretion clause- its how they apply it that determines whether they are rogue.

I feel for the guy playing but if the rule was in place is was in place- they obviously had a high risk strategy but 6000 is still a nice take out.
 
Only if this term is applied fairly and to ALL players. If this term IS being applied as it should be, across the board for ALL players, then this group should no longer be accredited. Max cashouts may be acceptable on free chips where the player has not risked their own money, but they cannot be acceptable where players have deposited."


Have to disagree- yes I also hate max cash outs but as long as it is stated as a condition then you accept it and take your chances- I believe Slotocash and a number of other casino's also have max cash out deposit bonuses and I don't believe that this type of bonus prohibits accreditation.


I thinks the comments by some of going rogue is unfair and should be used for genuine rogue behaviour not every time a player can't collect what they think they should irrespective of the terms- if the term is there and upfront its OK (whether it sucks or not is an entirely different question)- as to the discretion comment many of the accredited casinos have a discretion clause- its how they apply it that determines whether they are rogue.

I feel for the guy playing but if the rule was in place is was in place- they obviously had a high risk strategy but 6000 is still a nice take out.

Add into the mix a 10-day pending period for some withdrawals which VWM has pointed out, and 'going rogue' is certainly NOT unfair as 'withdrawals should be paid in a timely manner' and this alone discredits them. I'm glad I closed my account 2 months ago.:mad:
 
Has anyone got a copy of the terms from here the other week?
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I'm so stupid i didn't take a copy again and it's not in google cache or wayback machine... They are saying they were updated on the 1st of Feb along with Lucky Nugget, but they weren't the other week when I posted in this thread.

Edit: If I have proof they weren't updated, it casts doubt on their statement that Lucky Nugget was updated too.
 
Seems odd there's nothing on Google cache. Wonder why they would avoid that ? Got anything to hide ?
This whole discussion wouldn't be needed, if the pages were cached.

Has anyone got a copy of the terms from here the other week?
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I'm so stupid i didn't take a copy again and it's not in google cache or wayback machine... They are saying they were updated on the 1st of Feb along with Lucky Nugget, but they weren't the other week when I posted in this thread.

Edit: If I have proof they weren't updated, it casts doubt on their statement that Lucky Nugget was updated too.
 
Only if this term is applied fairly and to ALL players. If this term IS being applied as it should be, across the board for ALL players, then this group should no longer be accredited. Max cashouts may be acceptable on free chips where the player has not risked their own money, but they cannot be acceptable where players have deposited."


Have to disagree- yes I also hate max cash outs but as long as it is stated as a condition then you accept it and take your chances- I believe Slotocash and a number of other casino's also have max cash out deposit bonuses and I don't believe that this type of bonus prohibits accreditation.


I thinks the comments by some of going rogue is unfair and should be used for genuine rogue behaviour not every time a player can't collect what they think they should irrespective of the terms- if the term is there and upfront its OK (whether it sucks or not is an entirely different question)- as to the discretion comment many of the accredited casinos have a discretion clause- its how they apply it that determines whether they are rogue.

I feel for the guy playing but if the rule was in place is was in place- they obviously had a high risk strategy but 6000 is still a nice take out.

The difference is that with Slotocash, the max cashout term applies to ALL players, and EVERY player knows right from the start that it will be applied to them. The problem with the Lucky Nugget term is that they can pick and choose which players will get paid in full, and which will be limited to a max of 6x their deposit. The decision has nothing to do with the other terms and conditions, it is purely at the whim of management. No player can know what is expected of them in order to get paid in full, which is generally most players, and neither will Lucky Nugget explain to players what they have done wrong to have the term applied to them, nor what they need to do BEFORE they start playing in order NOT to have that term applied to them.

With the 10 day cashout, they LIED to me, and indeed anyone else who asked. I was told this was a general policy they had brought in for all players, not a discretionary term that management could apply to some. Having such a term is bad enough, but to blatantly lie about it to anyone who queries the scope of the term is what makes them "rogue".

Simmo was told that no such term exists, and never has existed. This was AFTER a German player posted a complaint about this being a "hidden term" that was applied to him, and also AFTER I first experienced a 10 day pending. When I queried a later withdrawal, they told me the term had just been brought in, which was yet ANOTHER LIE, because they were applying it to me earlier in the year. What tripped them up was a failure to confer and ensure all CS and management got their story straight, difficult since it was a different story depending on who was asking. What tripped them up was that prior to my query I had that very big, and very PUBLIC, win of £66K. They knew this win was receiving publicity here, and I am sure this is why this was the only win NOT to suffer a 10 day pending. When they later lied, they misinterpreted this management decision and wrongly thought I had NOT been subject to this term until AFTER my £66K win, a mistake that exposes the lie.

Although not hidden, this term is just as nasty and unjustified, and deserving of the view that they are "going rogue".

At no point has the rep come forward to explain to players WHY they might find themselves subject to this term, even though they have played within the terms laid out.

This is the ONLY casino that I know of where such a term is purely at the whim of management, the rest apply such a term as part of the promotion, and apply it equally to all players.

It's nothing more than reneging on a bet of no good reason, no different from a player that decides to charge back a portion of losses without offering a justification.

I suspect that they are silent on this matter because they know their reasoning would be their exit pass from the accredited section, and possibly their ticket to the rogue pit.

If the rep cares to explain how this term is "fair", I am waiting....................

I would also like the TRUTH about this 10 day pending, and furthermore, it should be described in the terms and conditions. Currently, I have been told it applies to "large withdrawals", but why applied to £4000, yet NOT applied to £66,000. Why was I told the dividing line is £5000, yet it was applied to £4000 and £700, and the latter BEFORE this even came into force.

This behaviour taken as a whole is not worthy of accreditation, and the arbitrary application to some players of a max cashout when they have deposited their own money should result in them being "not recommended" as this is so out of step with the Microgaming philosophy, which is that max cashouts, where they exist, are only applied to players who have only played free chips, and never risked their own money.

In my view, they are trying to slip a "spirit of the bonus" term under Bryan's radar, and so far appear to have gotten away with it.
 
I can assure you that Jackpot City was not having the new term for quite some time, AFTER it was there on lucky nugget terms.

They have not updates the whole group at once. This is a fact.

Ask them to check the server logs (server of the casino pages)


to be clear. First they inserted the X6 term on lucky nugget. Only later it went for the whole group.


I have checked. on February 6th, jackpotcity DID NOT has the X6 rule. I have looked for it and they did not had it. only luckynugget then. They introduced it later. (I have not saved the files. But I have looked very hard, and subsection 5.73 5.74 were not there as now)

Ok well they have said the terms were definitely updated on the 1st of Feb across all their brands, (even though Jackpot City wasn't) and that they aren't going to pay me. :(
Do people think this is befitting of an accredited casino? I'm so distraught I think I'm going to cry. What do you think the next step is?
 
Just see the last post, thanks for that.
I thought I could reason with them but they are having none of it. They are adamant all terms were updated on the 1st of Feb, even Jackpot City (which seems to have disappeared all of a sudden from Google cache)

Are you sure Lucky Nugget had it then?
If they did I think I may know why I thought that rule wasn't there at the time. As I said, I was thinking about doing the offer for a while, and I may have read the terms a week or 2 before, then when I went back to do it, I looked at the first line on the page - Last updated: 5 December 2012 !!!!!!
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I must have thought to myself, oh well nothing has changed, no point reading all through it again! And then forgot about it.

Edit: You think this is reason enough for them to pay me? Next step is eCogra I think. I have never used them. Are they good and fair?
 
Just see the last post, thanks for that.
I thought I could reason with them but they are having none of it. They are adamant all terms were updated on the 1st of Feb, even Jackpot City (which seems to have disappeared all of a sudden from Google cache)

Are you sure Lucky Nugget had it then?
If they did I think I may know why I thought that rule wasn't there at the time. As I said, I was thinking about doing the offer for a while, and I may have read the terms a week or 2 before, then when I went back to do it, I looked at the first line on the page - Last updated: 5 December 2012 !!!!!!
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I must have thought to myself, oh well nothing has changed, no point reading all through it again! And then forgot about it.

Edit: You think this is reason enough for them to pay me? Next step is eCogra I think. I have never used them. Are they good and fair?

They are supposed to be, but the casinos tend to know what they are doing, and will provide plenty of evidence to support their case. You saying "I don't think that term was there when I played" is not good enough, you would need evidence showing that it was NOT there on a specific date, which would disprove the claim from them that they changed the terms on the 1st Feb. It is no good either proving it wasn't there at Jackpot City, because that's not where you played.

Lucky Nugget will have internal records to show when these updates were made, and eCogra are likely to accept these records as factual evidence of the timings of these changes.

One thing you might challenge is not the term itself, but the grounds for applying it. The weakness is that this term is not universally applied to all players, but you were chosen as a player not to be paid the full amount. You could challenge the fairness of this decision in your case, asking eCogra whether it was fair to apply this term, and you could also find out WHY they are applying this term.

Even if eCogra favour the casino, you do still have other options, and hopefully will know WHY this term was applied.

You could even take this to Trading Standards to ask whether this kind of term is even allowed by law here in the UK. If it turns out not to be, you could mount a legal challenge, but this could become costly with no guarantee of success.

Lucky Nugget can claim UK law doesn't apply to them, but things have changed recently, and already the ASA has the power to make rulings on online casino internet based advertising. Under the new UK regime, there will be no escaping UK law (except by being rogue and operating from some dodgy jurisdiction outside of the EU) as it changes the legal definition of where the gambling takes place. Currently, the gambling takes place offshore, on the gaming server, but this will change to it legally taking place at the location of the player and PC. This would mean it becomes subject to UK law, not the laws of their licensing jurisdiction.

Very few cases ever reach the courts though. Many players may not feel the reward is worth the risk of not only losing, but racking up considerable legal fees. With so few cases, there are few reference rulings available to assist in preparing a legal argument. The best course seems to be the small claims court, fixed fee, and you might be able to get fixed fee representation, and then hope the casino can't be arsed to defend the case with their expensive lawyers. I suspect quite a few cases get settled out of court, but in order to push the casino into doing this, they have to be convinced that this IS going all the way, so this would probably mean making the application to have the case brought, which is a fixed fee, and will result on papers being served on the casino's legal team.
 
This is the umpteenth time on the confusion caused by which dates the Ts and Cs are posted. When casinos launch an update ,other than requiring a player to tick a box certifying they had read and understood them, they should also autosend the updated terms to the player's email a/c. There should be less argument if this is followed. Can this be included as accreditation criteria?
 
What about the fact that the terms at the top say they were last updated in December 2012?

I read the terms in January, and thought there was no point reading pages and pages for any changes, as it says on the top nothing has changed.
 
What about the fact that the terms at the top say they were last updated in December 2012?

I read the terms in January, and thought there was no point reading pages and pages for any changes, as it says on the top nothing has changed.

That is really a good point. Player can not be assumed to doublecheck the rules, if it states they have not been changed.
 
I think they are bluffing. They don't have a record of the date this was added, merely that someone can remember it happening "some time in February". If they had records, there would have been no confusion whatsoever, and they could have given a specific date when asked.

PROVING that they are bluffing is the problem, unless you can get a loan of Dr Who's Tardis;)

The next best evidence is the "wayback machine", but it would have to be a snapshot of that page after the offending play was completed showing that the offending term had not been added at that time.
 
seems to me that it wouldnt be a bad idea for casinomeister to make sure the accredited casinos' terms and conditions are saved on this site and in case of updates, bothe the old and new versions are saved. this hardly takes in any space, and it is much easier for the people relying on this site, to look at the T&C's and being informed in advance on any rules that are... lets say, a little off, or out of the ordinary.
and your co-members can warn eachother, since even accredited casino's make someone bend over every once in a while
 
I think they are bluffing. They don't have a record of the date this was added, merely that someone can remember it happening "some time in February". If they had records, there would have been no confusion whatsoever, and they could have given a specific date when asked.

Unfortunately examples like Betfred jaguar promo or Betfair backstamping their t&c show it might not be wise to be fully upfront and assume casino is honest and willing to help. LN had plenty of information here, that deposit was made on the 4th, that OP doesn't have screenshot of the old terms, that google cache goes back to the 1st of march etc.

They can now easily say it was 1st of feb without fear that someone might bring evidence to the contrary. Obviously a lot of things don't add up but it's all circumstantial, although information that t&c were last updated in 2012 seems like a good start.

Lucky N. casino is not interested in fair resolution here. Their rep remains silent. Cashflow problems seem more and more valid. I hope this won't end like purple lounge, which was finally taken off the accredited list after officialy going bankrupt and shutting their webpage down. I remember how winpalace was ripped to shreds and called rogue by most people here since they had a 10 day waiting period. Now LN is doing the same and most seem to be content asking that 'we all go home'. :what::what:
 
Also, I remind that some of the landing pages had OLD T&Cs without this particular rule. 'Surprisingly', they were fixed soon after I reported it here.
 
Other language terms are not much relevant. English is central.

terms might have been updated before february 6th. I only know that jackpotcity was not updated then. but it mihgt well be that luckynugget was done before tha............
 
In most terms, if the English and other language versions conflict, the English version is considered the correct one.

A legal cop-out that only has merit in "cowboy country". I'd like to see and English business try something like this when advertising in, say, the German market. I am sure the German authorities will tell them that if they are doing business there, it is the German terms that are legally binding, even if they hadn't bothered to keep them up to date.

Remember, when customers tick "I have read and agree to the terms", they have agreed to what they have just read, not something else on another page and in another language.

For most of us, English is our primary language, or a good second language, so we do not appreciate how predatory this kind of BS is to some.

If the non-English terms are not legally binding, they should not be there. Instead, they should only accept customers who can read English, and who can agree to the proper set of terms. Perhaps they would rather blame non-English speakers for not learning this foreign language than walk away from the potential profits.
 
A legal cop-out that only has merit in "cowboy country". I'd like to see and English business try something like this when advertising in, say, the German market. I am sure the German authorities will tell them that if they are doing business there, it is the German terms that are legally binding, even if they hadn't bothered to keep them up to date.

Remember, when customers tick "I have read and agree to the terms", they have agreed to what they have just read, not something else on another page and in another language.

For most of us, English is our primary language, or a good second language, so we do not appreciate how predatory this kind of BS is to some.

If the non-English terms are not legally binding, they should not be there. Instead, they should only accept customers who can read English, and who can agree to the proper set of terms. Perhaps they would rather blame non-English speakers for not learning this foreign language than walk away from the potential profits.

Calm down Perry Mason :rolleyes:

I said where there is a conflict the English terms will apply.

I actually can't remember a case where this actually happened and a non-English speaking player was ripped off as a result.

Sheesh.
 
I said where there is a conflict the English terms will apply.
Then what's the point of providing T&C in other languages? The German player cannot rely on the German T&C, he will have to read the English T&C and compare them to the German ones to see if there is a conflict.
 
Then what's the point of providing T&C in other languages? The German player cannot rely on the German T&C, he will have to read the English T&C and compare them to the German ones to see if there is a conflict.

This assumes he is fluent in English, and not merely everyday English, but "legalese".

In fact, players suffering through conflicts in terms has ALREADY happened, and this is conflict between different sets of the same set of terms on different pages, but all in English.

A consumer cannot be expected to understand a foreign language when agreeing to a contract, this won't stand up in court if the dispute ever got that far, but enough complaints would probably see the regulators taking action.

When you agree to terms, you agree to what has just been shown to you, not it's translation. The onus is on the business to ensure that it employs a QUALIFIED translator to produce terms in the local languages of markets they are targeting. Most conflicts are caused by shoddy translation, and since this should not happen, no such term should be necessary.

The ONLY reason casinos get away with this is the lack of proper regulation, something that is only recently being addressed by the proper authorities.

As has been highlighted before, consumer rights enshrined in law trump any terms and conditions a customer agrees to. Even where a customer signs away their legal rights, this is not recognised in law since it is illegal for a business to accept and/or enforce such a waiver.

They should remember that the UK government has used the excuse that consumers are not properly protected as a means to slip their taxation at source agenda under the radar, and it has stuck because although consumers are supposedly protected by the current licensing authorities, in practice they are not, as has been revealed in a number of high profile cases which can be used to illustrate the lack of protection argument.

What matters is whether the protection afforded to UK players meets UK legal standards of consumer protection, and in some areas it does not.

Once secondary licensing comes into force, UK players will be able to enlist the help of Trading Standards more easily, and will be less reliant on third party mediation services such as PAB and Gambling Grumbles.

The casinos are already being regularly rapped over the knuckles by the ASA now that they have the power to regulate internet adverts.

The case involving Cassava even shows that the ASA do not buy the "player should read the terms" argument when they ruled that it is not good enough to have significant terms only stated there and not highlighted on the ad itself.
 

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