Lucky Emperor is stealing from me!!

salamongenet

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Location
Montreal
I deposited 100$ and received a 100$ bonus. I started playing around on slots and blackjack with smaller bets and gradually increased them. I click on spin with a 40$ bet on cashville then win 20000$!! I take a screenshot right away and start going crazy. I couldnt help myself though so I kept playing on blackjack and slots. Lots of blackjack double exposure also. At which point I was betting 100-1000$ a hand and went as high as 25k and dropped all the way down to like 13k... Then I managed to get back to 20k and said okay thats enough im cashing out now. This can pay for a new car for christ sake, why would I gamble it. Anyways I cash and cashout but the gambler in me couldnt resist so I went back and reversed the cashout. It was my day how can I win a 20k jackpot!!! Anyways I reverse it and play and go up to like 22k and lose it all back and cashout 20k again. Then they send me an email saying that its 4k maximum per week so I reverse it all and keep playing and lose like 6k and only have 13k left.. No big deal I can still use this money to play bills and have a little poker bankroll to play with. So i cashout 3000$ hoping they will pay me soon so I can send that money to my poker account. This is the email they send me after that:

Hello Sebastien

Please take note of the following.

We would like to inform you that your cashin and account has been blocked due to a breach of the Bonus Account Terms and Conditions of the casino. For more information please look under Bonus Account Terms and Conditions include >> Point 13

“The Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings for irregular play. ‘Irregular play’ includes but is not limited to any one or more of the following types of play:

1. Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 25% or more of the value of the bonus credited to the account prior to the play-through requirement for that bonus having been met;

2. Using the double-up feature to increase bet values;

3. Even money bets on Sic Bo, Craps and Roulette”

Your winnings will be confiscated and your deposit will be refunded to you.

Thank you and kind regards,

Rudolf

Risk Management Team




I am completely in tears and enraged after reading this, I call them and talk to Rudolf himself. Who tells me very directly that my winnings are void. Look at this email so cold, how can they have no heart!!!! Rudolf tells me that my bet of 40$ was irregular and that I breached the terms by doing that! How could they do this to their customers??? I thought this was a good casino and would pay me, they are just coming up with an excuse to not pay me right?? Are they allowed to hide this in their terms?? Because they know not everyone will read all the fine print... How could any person in their right mind want toplay online gambling when dealing with casinos like this, that have stupid terms that are there only to take the winnings away from people they dont want to pay. How could someone deposit 100$ get a 100$ bonus and only want to play at 25$ the whole time?? That sounds absolutely crazy to me.. am I the only one here?? Because Rudolf is blaming this all on me and making it seem like I was trying to do something bad with my irregular play. This is non sense, please can anyone tell me if they agree with me???
 

brianzz

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 2, 2006
Location
TN
Casinos have absurd rules to screw you out of your winnings in the off chance that you happen to win. Take your deposit back and move on.
 

nerv

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 14, 2007
Location
lower back of EU
I am really sorry to hear this but you chances to see this money, to be optimistic, are very slim.

Very painful lesson learned: read T&C before you play, especially if you take a bonus.
 

Marie2473

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 2, 2008
Location
Sweden
well you have learned the hard way. I have actually seen this rule before, but since I am a lowroller I do not have to worry about it.
Unfortunately it is in their rules, so the chanse of u seeing your winnings are close to zero
I feel sorry for you but like someone else said, it is important to ALWAYS read the T&C´s!
 

manofsteel

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
Location
Philippines
Online casino 101:

Rule #1: Read the fine print!

As one of the previous posts mentioned, this is extremely important if you are taking a bonus. In some cases I have found T's & C's to be so vague that I either wouldn't even consider taking the bonus or I would find another place to play.

You should also take a look at the casino list here. Lucky Emperor Casino is marked as "proceed with caution" though I'm not sure why. They are running Microgaming software, which should be a solid seal of approval.

In most (all?) cases the bonus places restrictions on how you can play. The way I like to play, I would never take a bonus. Unfortunately, taking a bonus is also one of the best ways to come out ahead of the house edge.

My suggestion, go ahead and take the bonus but read the T & C's very carefully. Play carefully within the rules and hope that you can come out ahead after clearing your wagering requirements. If you are ahead after clearing the requirements, then you have some house money to go nuts with.

Do I agree with the T & C's? It doesn't matter, if the fine print is there, then you either need to agree with it or deposit into a different casino.
 

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
Such a shame that they make every conceivable effort to ensure they trap you with bonuses... I hope it all comes clear for you...

The sad reality is that you'd never find such ridiculous and stupid terms in a land based casino... :what:

Good Luck Bud
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
I thought this was a good casino and would pay me, they are just coming up with an excuse to not pay me right??
They're not "making excuses" if it's in the T&Cs.


Are they allowed to hide this in their terms??
Yes, casinos can have ANYTHING they like in their terms - that's why you MUST read them or accept the consequences.


Because they know not everyone will read all the fine print...
Who's fault is it if the players don't read the rules?


How could any person in their right mind want to play online gambling when dealing with casinos like this...
Who said gamblers are ever in their right mind! :p


How could someone deposit 100$ get a 100$ bonus and only want to play at 25$ the whole time??
I've deposited up to $500 and got a $500 bonus and I have NEVER bet more than $25 at a time on a slot pull! (Very few spins over $2.50)


This is non sense, please can anyone tell me if they agree with me???
No I can't agree.
I'm truly am VERY sorry you made a terrible mistake and have lost all your winnings :( but when you take a bonus you MUST read and accept the T&Cs.
If you don't, you can only blame yourself.

KK
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
"Sadly" the terms are all on the same page now. If it would have been on different pages then you would have had an case. Once again it also shows why the casinos dont use the built in "betsizecapper". Plus they would have probably given you a hell anyway and said you played it in an abusive manner etc. and confiscated the winnings.

Why you tought that a Casino Rewards place was a good casino is beyond me. Try Unibet or Expekt instead, no betsize restrictions and theyll pay you in one lump.
 

rouletteguy

Experienced Member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Location
Ontario
Probably wishful thinking but I think it'd be fair if the bets won with over 30% wager were removed and all else was paid. Just adds credibility to my argument that "newbies" think it's free money with no catch. Maybe Brian will place another stipulation that in order for a casino to become and remain accredited they must clearly post (in not so fine print) that T/C apply to all sign up bonuses.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
The term is there, but WHERE IS THE FLEXIBILITY. This is a case where the play was RECREATIONAL, rather than "abusive". It was NOT a case of betting big from the start, but rather a case of doing what comes naturally for a gambler, getting carried away by the "rush" from a good session & making looser and looser bets.

They could have thrown away a whale, because if you had been paid without problems, you could well have been back, and may have played some more at this level, where you might have encountered the more likely scenario - you LOSING 20K to the casino in a single mad session.

It also illustrates that even playing the goddam SLOTS is no longer a guarantee of a "smooth ride" when it comes to using a bonus. I used to advise players to "just play slots" in order to avoid these kinds of issues with a welcome bonus, but I have not been able to do this lately, as the above illustrates.

Players cannot even rely on asking CS to clarify terms they don't understand, because many CS agents don't even understand the rules, and thus give wrong answers. IF CS agents cannot understand the rules, casinos should expect that not all of their PLAYERS will be able to understand the rules either.

This violation was against the LETTER of the rules, but was certainly not against the SPIRIT of them, so I don't expect ANY more of the "not played in the spirit in which the bonus is offered....." bullshit excuses from casino rewards when explaining why a player has not been paid.

You can also get winnings voided by Casino rewards for using Autoplay, or even for taking up a bonus they themselves have PERSONALLY invited you to take if there is simething in the rules making you ineligible. Unsually, a peronal invite trumps general rules, but with casino rewards, a personal invite can be a TRAP, because you don't EXPECT to have to check eligibilty if an agent has PERSONALLY invited you to take the bonus.

Casino Rewards are a law unto themselves, and this has earned them a place in "not recommended" it seems. They have a rep, but mainly for AFFILIATE issues, they can't be arsed to have a PLAYER rep.
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
I thought this was a good casino and would pay me, they are just coming up with an excuse to not pay me right?? Are they allowed to hide this in their terms?? Because they know not everyone will read all the fine print...

Once again, everyone needs to read all the rules of the casino, including "the small print". If they do not understand the rules, they need to ask and get either e-mail support or a copy of a chat pertaining to the rules that are not understood.

I am getting more and more tired of players trying to cry "foul" when the fault lays with them NOT READING THE RULES.

Come on, people, it isn't that hard, as adults surely we can, in fact, read and understand the rules?
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Once again, everyone needs to read all the rules of the casino, including "the small print". If they do not understand the rules, they need to ask and get either e-mail support or a copy of a chat pertaining to the rules that are not understood.

I am getting more and more tired of players trying to cry "foul" when the fault lays with them NOT READING THE RULES.

Come on, people, it isn't that hard, as adults surely we can, in fact, read and understand the rules?


Do you always remember the rules, and stay disciplined and completely rational when the adrenalin REALLY gets going.

Casinos RELY on this "adrenalin effect" to make money. It is the player that can remain calm, logical, and disciplined that usually ends up labeled as "advantage player", and often beats the casino by cashing out at the best opportunities, rather than when their mood has calmed down.

If EVERY player read all the rules, and managed such levels of control, casinos would take a hammering.

Rival's central database system was DESIGNED to weed out, among other things, players who could play in a controlled manner, and who cashed out at the optimum times, and bonus banned them to get rid of them.

The true advantage players ALWAYS read the rules, mainly because they are on the lookout for the loopholes they can exploit. This was NOT exploiting any loophole, this was a situation that would be a considerable embarrassment for any self respecting advantage player to have been caught out in.

There would also be a way out of such a situation - pity the OP didn't spot it;)
 

slotplayer

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
Joined
Oct 11, 2006
Location
USA
I guess this the third time I'm reading about the bonus rules denying a payout.

xhttp://www.gpwa.org/forum/uk-casino-club-casino-rewards-denies-10k-payout-resolved-186950.html

So last week the land casino sent me $75 bonus play.
So I took the 1 hour ride as it was brutally hot.

To make a long story short for the hell of it I tried to cash it out and see if I could deposit the slip in another machine, it cashed out the $3.75 I won and left $50 bonus in the machine for me to play with. No BS rules, straight forward.

Today they sent me another bonus play card and I read the fine print under it and it said must be played on the machine I claim it on.

Really there was like 3 or 4 rules - pretty simple.

Of course there was just the one game but it is not that hard for online casinos to either disable the restricted games and wagering on certain games or have a pop up message. I've cashed out winnings at MG's and it has a message saying the remaining bonus will be forfeited, do you still want to cash out? or something like that, so I know it can be done.

Incidently, I closed the couple of MG accounts I had last feb and haven't played a single dime online since. Its just not worth all the hassles, especially with banks calling.
 

jod5413

Is That Better?
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Location
somewhere on the planet
Do you always remember the rules, and stay disciplined and completely rational when the adrenalin REALLY gets going.

Actually, yep, I do. :p

Maybe I am just not a "true" gambler. But, even when I get a really good hit, I never worry about getting paid, because I READ all the rules and regulations before depositing and playing. And yep, I get a real rush when I hit a really good one!! How terrible of me, NO? ;)
 

darkpixie

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 25, 2006
Location
Vancouver
Wait..... This crap is in the rules??? I thought this was GAMBLING ???? :what::what::what:

Heck you would think they would love players that foolishly pop $40 a spin with a $200 balance. So a guy got lucky, so what?? How the F is this abuse?
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
I think the casino should be happy to have players deposit $100, start with $200 and pull for $40 a spin. :rolleyes: Quick and easy money - most of the time.


And the age old question still applies - the question that operators REFUSE TO ANSWER -

If a player breaks the T&C on a bonus and loses, WILL YOU REFUND THEIR DEPOSIT?

...of course we all know the answer - No.
 

rouletteguy

Experienced Member
Joined
May 28, 2010
Location
Ontario
My beef isn't with the bonus or the T/C my beef is that when a newbie fresh from the farm signs up to play with a bonus they automatically assume it's free money with no catch. The promotional material is designed that way and it's somewhat misleading as far as I'm concerned. Look at it this way say you downloaded the new adobe reader agree to t/c blah blah blah and carry on. A week later you get a bill for 5 grand and they direct you to the T/C saying you agreed to pay. Nobody reads that shit!!! come on much less a rookie with a few extra minutes and cash to burn. TERMS AND CONDITIONS APPLY should be a big bold feature of all promo's. or as soon as you click on the bonus it should take you to the T/C page immediately. Just my two cents.
 

salamongenet

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 14, 2010
Location
Montreal
Doesn't it seem that this rule is there just to be able to not pay a big win if they choose to? Most people when they start winning will naturally start betting more than 25$ a hand.

Fact: In the MG software the operator has the ability to set the bet limits to a certain percentage of the bonus (from my experience with other MG casinos).

So now there are two possibilities: They either know that they can do this or not. I doubt that a casino of this size is stupid enough not to realize this, the simple fact that they have this rule means that they are copying their competitors, so I am guessing they would of also noticed that many of them set the maximum bet to be set in the software. That being said, if they are willingly not setting a maximum bet it MUST mean they want to void some cashouts. I am guessing that the "some" means if you are a bonus abuser and not a "real" player. If you look at other casinos that have this rule and do not have the maximum bet size enforced in the software they usually will pay winnings if they don't consider it bonus abuse. This way they pay out their "normal" customers and get the bonus abusers money (they give back the deposit when they win and keep the deposit when they lose, not bad). 32Red and Intercasino are examples of casinos that work this way.

Now with lucky emperor, from my previous logic, their intent of not having the maximum bet in the software must be to void some cashouts but its obvious that my play was not bonus abuse therefore we can be even more precise and say that they void ALL cashouts.


In other words, the reason they have that rule there is to screw people out of their money, this seem very clear to me. == dishonest == rogue or whatever you want to call it. DUCY?

HOW CAN ANYONE DEFEND A CASINO THAT WANTS TO TAKE PEOPLES MONEY IN A DISHONEST WAY?
 

nerv

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 14, 2007
Location
lower back of EU
Doesn't it seem that this rule is there just to be able to not pay a big win if they choose to? Most people when they start winning will naturally start betting more than 25$ a hand.

In fact, AFAIK this rule is incorporated in order to prevent some advanced strategies regarding bonuses. You can find it at many online casinos. I am not going to write ti here exactly how, but if you search the forum or internet you will find it quite easily.


What I will advise you is to read about PAB proccess (here, at casinomeister) and see to start one.

Fact: In the MG software the operator has the ability to set the bet limits to a certain percentage of the bonus (from my experience with other MG casinos).

So, you're not completely new to this online casinos industry. You should then know that quite a number of casinos are not "association of gentlemen".

So now there are two possibilities: They either know that they can do this or not. I doubt that a casino of this size is stupid enough not to realize this, the simple fact that they have this rule means that they are copying their competitors, so I am guessing they would of also noticed that many of them set the maximum bet to be set in the software. That being said, if they are willingly not setting a maximum bet it MUST mean they want to void some cashouts. I am guessing that the "some" means if you are a bonus abuser and not a "real" player. If you look at other casinos that have this rule and do not have the maximum bet size enforced in the software they usually will pay winnings if they don't consider it bonus abuse. This way they pay out their "normal" customers and get the bonus abusers money (they give back the deposit when they win and keep the deposit when they lose, not bad). 32Red and Intercasino are examples of casinos that work this way.

Now with lucky emperor, from my previous logic, their intent of not having the maximum bet in the software must be to void some cashouts but its obvious that my play was not bonus abuse therefore we can be even more precise and say that they void ALL cashouts.


In other words, the reason they have that rule there is to screw people out of their money, this seem very clear to me. == dishonest == rogue or whatever you want to call it. DUCY?

Pretty much agree with you. Now, I don't really know how the back-end application of casino software looks and what they can do or not, but as you mentioned before there are other casinos with bet limits applied so logically this one should be able to do it also.
I am trying to recall now if I ever saw bet limits on slot actually (other than limits by the game design itself) and I am not sure if I ever saw it.

HOW CAN ANYONE DEFEND A CASINO THAT WANTS TO TAKE PEOPLES MONEY IN A DISHONEST WAY?

I really understand your frustration now. I would be screaming and bitting left and right if this happen to me. But, if you read replies in this tread, no one actually defending the casino.
I think all of the posters here agree that you are screwed and casino didn't act in a good spirit (me included). What I read in this thread are opinions summarized in two thoughts:
1. Yes, casino did screw you over, calling on clauses that actually are not intended for your play (you didn't place bet on any table game over 25$, do you?)
2. Legally (or whatever should be the term), they have much better cards in their hands than you.

I totally agree with vinylweatherman that pressure should be made on casinos (and through them to software providers) to finally incorporate modules which will enforce those rules through the game. Otherwise people will simply give up on casinos applying more and more cumbersome rules.

After all, no one here wish to spend 1 hour of reading T&C and 15 minutes playing games (till busted ;) ).
 
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