Lost out on £4000!!

benny101

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Hi everyone!

I'm new here so apologies if i have posted in the wrong place, but i need some advice as i am getting major anxiety over this, so any advice is appreciated!

So basically, my daughter decided to download rainbow riches casino app via the app store on her phone, add my bank details and ended up deposit £3999 from my bank. I followed the complaints process once i found out what she had done and how she did it, but they are refusing to refund the amount, so i logged with eCOGRA who have accepted the case, but awaiting a decision.

So there is background here, she is 15, and has seen me playing these games in the past, and fancied her chances. Before any of the 'bad parent' comments come in, let me just explain that a 15 year old will keep anything to do with their private life private! turns out her school piers have got her addicted to gambling, which is apparently a growing concern with underage teens at the moment. Anyway, all that aside i have taken the parental responsibility to ensure she is getting the help she needs etc.

so she set the account up in her name, address etc but changed her DOB to view as 18, but added my bank card on the deposit method. I found out the next morning that she near enough wiped my account out. I reported the fraud to the bank, merchant and action fraud immediately. As suspected, the bank have done nothing. Action fraud have done nothing, so i attempted to ask the casino for the funds back.

Their responses were fairly good, they accepted their T&C's confirm if a minor is found to be playing, they will refund ALL deposits made, and request any withdrawals, all they needed was copies of her documents that match the account name.
Passport and birth certificate were sent in, clear as day, sent about 9 times, zoomed in, out all the rest.

Anyway, they kept responding advising it failed verification, and to send more pictures in. I kept doing this and they kept refusing the identification for whatever reason. Its literally clear as day pictures. No discrepancies in any of the info. They just said their software failed the checks and they cannot accept a manual check from a manager.

So i logged with eCOGRA but from what i have read online, they always favor the casino, but not sure how they could in this case, as i have provided all evidence that any human would confirm is correct, but their software does not. Not sure where i stand with this, and wondering what the outcome will be.

thanks in advance for responses.
 

danofthewibble

Meister Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
Just a few things - Action Fraud/your bank may not be able to do anything unless you've got a crime number from the police.

Not sure if you want to go down that route as you'll be reporting yourself as the victim of a crime and your daughter as the perpetrator. If you're not willing to do so, getting a refund might be difficult.

The reason for this is transactions of that size will usually be picked up by the bank's own security systems, with them usually blocking transactions until certain security questions are answered. If this block came in, and your daughter got through security, it may be that you'll have to prove you didn't give her this info.

I would personally suggest opening a PAB here - "Submit Complaint" at the top of the page, and read the instructions. Gamesys are not the best at responding, but you might be on a better footing as it's under-age gambling.
 
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benny101

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Thanks for the reply.
So because the i myself have used the casino in the past, no security warnings/blocks were put on my account when the deposits were being made. I gained a reference, and reported her as she needed to learn a lesson. So all parties were provided of this. Complaint previously logged with Gamesys and again they dismissed this.
 

danofthewibble

Meister Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
I'd also add - you'd be worthwhile arguing that they cannot have done sufficient KYC checks, as her ID would've clearly shown she'd falsified her DOB, as would any third party agencies they check against her. So they've failed there as well.
 

danofthewibble

Meister Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
Thanks for the reply.
So because the i myself have used the casino in the past, no security warnings/blocks were put on my account when the deposits were being made. I gained a reference, and reported her as she needed to learn a lesson. So all parties were provided of this. Complaint previously logged with Gamesys and again they dismissed this.

To be honest - and this may vary from bank to bank - previous deposits shouldn't have too much to do with it. I regularly deposit at A N Other casino - I deposit small amounts at a time, usually £10, but I sometimes will make a few deposits if I'm enjoying the session and want to keep playing. Nine times out of ten, the bank allows this - but on occasion, the card will be blocked until I authorise in my bank app, or phone them.

I would suspect £3999 should in any event have triggered something with your bank that this was unusual, though I admit I'm taking it that it was done in a short space of time, rather than over a period of weeks. Even then, and I don't know about your finances, to me that level of spending should have triggered a check with the bank and the casino.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
... So i logged with eCOGRA but from what i have read online, they always favor the casino ...
Just wanted to say that that's not entirely true or fair. eCOGRA certainly has ruled in favour of the player on a fair percentage of cases. I think it could be said that they might tend to favour casinos slightly more than other ADRs but it's certainly not a black-and-white thing.
 

benny101

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
The problem is that they allowed her to sign up. I understand this, her account showed she was 18. She deposit a huge amount, and would have asked for identification upon making a withdraw which she would have not been able to do as she is not 18. Again sent all the passport and birth cert to the casino but its failed for an unknown reason. I cant see how eCOGRA would be able to favor them, as i have photographic evidence.

My bank basically tried to say it was me doing it, ive had a loss and trying to claim it back. - LOL. i tried explaining as a small time gambler, i know withdraws cannot take place without identification proof, so why on earth would i spend 4000£ with an account in somebodys name who i couldnt provide identification for. Baffles me
 

benny101

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
To be honest - and this may vary from bank to bank - previous deposits shouldn't have too much to do with it. I regularly deposit at A N Other casino - I deposit small amounts at a time, usually £10, but I sometimes will make a few deposits if I'm enjoying the session and want to keep playing. Nine times out of ten, the bank allows this - but on occasion, the card will be blocked until I authorise in my bank app, or phone them.

I would suspect £3999 should in any event have triggered something with your bank that this was unusual, though I admit I'm taking it that it was done in a short space of time, rather than over a period of weeks. Even then, and I don't know about your finances, to me that level of spending should have triggered a check with the bank and the casino.
was done in the space of around 2 hours! After getting the data from the casino, looks like she was playing slots at £40-80 a spin :axeman2:
 

danofthewibble

Meister Member
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Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
Aye, at that level of depositing, something should've triggered, somewhere.

Also, don't Gamesys have a one-account per household rule? If you've already got one, alarm bells should've rung on that level with them as well.
 

Webzcas

Winter is Coming!
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Block S25, South Stand, Ashton Gate, BS3
PAB is a good option to consider. But if already with an ADR might want to see that run its course with eCOGRA first.

Incidentally my friend's stepson went on a massive purchase spree in the XBox store a few years back. My friend's card was registered on the account, but he hadn't used the parental settings. That ended up costing him over £300
 

benny101

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
I'm just wondering whether an affidavit from your daughter would be of any use, my legal knowledge is not top notch mind you.
i told the casino i would send a video in of her confession ive been that desperate! but because of child protection laws, they cannot accept this, nor a written confession
 

Mark_BGO

Accredited Casino Representative
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Jan 26, 2021
Location
Gibraltar
so she set the account up in her name, address etc but changed her DOB to view as 18

Sorry to hear of your situation. You may want to ask the casino in question how they verified she was indeed over 18. Any automated KYC checks use name & dob, if she used her name it shouldn't have gone through unless I've missed something obvious.
 

SpinUk

Meister Member
PABnonaccred
MM
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Location
London
Unless you told the police who would try (and be duty bound) to arrest and prosecute your daughter, then there is nothing you can do on that front. The saving grace is the fact your daughter is only 15 - theoretically the casino could on their front report your daughter for fraud (still criminally culpable) but they will have to refund it on that basis. What would be interesting is if they give you the choice which I would consider a strong possibility.
 

SpinUk

Meister Member
PABnonaccred
MM
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Location
London
I'm just wondering whether an affidavit from your daughter would be of any use, my legal knowledge is not top notch mind you.
Would give the casino a water tight threat to criminally prosecute your daughter, don’t recommend that.
 

benny101

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Aye, at that level of depositing, something should've triggered, somewhere.

Also, don't Gamesys have a one-account per household rule? If you've already got one, alarm bells should've rung on that level with them as well.
So Gamesys responded and stuck to their T&C's that they are not liable for any bank cards used by another person, but forgot to keep to the part of their T&C's about underage gaming! shock!... They also said because the card was added onto her apple pay, this is the reason not all details are shared with the casino so believe they have done their due diligence.
Also one point to add... They apparently run credit checks on names etc on accounts in the background which is a step of verification, however my daughter has the same name as my wife, and used her DOB so it would show on a credit check as an adult. However... the documents prove it was 100% my child and not wife via the DOB and birth cert with both our details on.

Also, when i stated above she showed her DOB as 18. No my wife is not 18 lol, i was just generalizing she was showing on the site as somebody over 18.
 

SpinUk

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Location
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Sorry to hear of your situation. You may want to ask the casino in question how they verified she was indeed over 18. Any automated KYC checks use name & dob, if she used her name it shouldn't have gone through unless I've missed something obvious.
Agreed but Casino could still go after the daughter for the card fraud, its enough money for police to take it seriously.
 

benny101

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Agreed but Casino could still go after the daughter for the card fraud, its enough money for police to take it seriously.
i was told they basically will not investigate if under £5000, and due to it being a family member, they were classing as a civil matter somehow
 

benny101

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Agreed but Casino could still go after the daughter for the card fraud, its enough money for police to take it seriously.
I think because she shares the same name as my wife, the background checks passed as an adult.
 
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