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losing someone else's money

Discussion in 'Casinomeister's Poker Room' started by dreamtheatre, Feb 17, 2009.

    Feb 17, 2009
  1. dreamtheatre

    dreamtheatre Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Turkey
    A guy obtains the credit cards info and the identity data of the credit card holder . This way he has many stolen credit cards. And he has two friends who are pretty good poker players.

    Then they open an account for the poor person . And transfer the money in this account to their account and then make the withdrawal.

    I witnessed them do the chipdumping process (on one of the biggest poker networks). They played at two adjacent pcs. Both of them are very good poker players(the hacker just provides the credit cards he is not involved in the chipdumping process) They deposited 1000 usd from the stolen credit card. And in a short time the money was transferred from one to the other with 120 percent efficiency. When the session was over the guy who should lose had 200 usd in his account and the one who was supposed to win had an extra 1000. Then they played at other different tablees so that there would not be suspicion. The loser created a loose aggressive player image.

    They withdrew the money wiht no diffuculty. But these guys made the transfer at a 5 player table. they knew each others hands so the other 3 players at the table were also cheated. If the poker network detects this incident will they pay back the loss of the other 3 players in the table?
     
  2. Feb 17, 2009
  3. same_old

    same_old Dormant account PABaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    12th man
    Location:
    Australia
    Why why why!!
     
  4. Feb 17, 2009
  5. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Why would you not report this immediately if you were suspicious at the get go? You are just as guilty as them if you did indeed winess it and did NOTHING.
    Why would they? If you are referring to yourself being at this table (one of the 3) then, no you shouldn't be reimbursed. You should be banned IMO because you were in collusion with them by being silent and now you want your money back?

    If i am reading this wrong apologies in advance but it seems you sat there knowingly, allowing this cheating to go on and how did you know they used a stolen credit card unless you were involved? And now want to be reimbursed for monies you dumped?

    .
     
    4 people like this.
  6. Feb 17, 2009
  7. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    Report this immediately
    What if it was your card that was used.
    Would you be happy Not
    You are guilty in knowing this is going on.
     
    3 people like this.
  8. Feb 17, 2009
  9. RoyallyFlushed

    RoyallyFlushed Banned User

    Occupation:
    wife
    Location:
    somewhere in NJ
    I don't understand why didnt report this. You obviously know the people the poker rooms and the tables. I don't play in poker rooms because I don't trust them, besides to me it's not real poker, I like to see the people in person and try to figure out their tells.

    Anyway, I think you should report these people or a tleast tip them off anonymously if you are too scared. Im not sure he's one of the 3 people because if he was and he knows about it then he was probably compensated for it.

    This upsets me because I love poker and I don't dare go in those rooms for this very reason
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Feb 17, 2009
  11. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    I have heard some crazy things people do in poker rooms.
    A group of people in the same location same room same house that have 4 or more playing and they all see what everyone has in the hand.and what they do is beat the other players.
    I use to play a lot of poker online but now ill just wait to play poker at Foxwoods or The Mohegan Sun Casino.
    Or if I know a group of people online that wants to get a game going that's cool too.Least you know who you are playing with.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Feb 22, 2009
  13. dreamtheatre

    dreamtheatre Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Turkey
    the guy whose card was used, will do a chargeback and get his funds back.

    the case is between three guys and a pokerroom. i dont feel sorry at all for the pokerrrom . i was just sorry for the other three players on the table where the chipdumping was being made.

    none of the three are bad guys. sorry but i cannot let them go to prison by reporting them. i am a professional poker player .And clearly if someone cheats at my poker table i will feel terrible so i emphatised with the three other players. When i learned that the credit card holder would get his money back that was my only concern so that is why i started this tread.

    i had nothing to do with anything i just watched the chipdumping from beginning to end .
     
  14. Feb 22, 2009
  15. swampwitch

    swampwitch ProfessionalUnderachiever

    Occupation:
    Independent craftsperson specializing in chenille
    Location:
    Iowa, dammit.
    Amazing. You have intimate knowledge of what was happening. You didn't inform the other players what was happening, and you didn't inform the poker room.
    You, sir, are a colluder. You are a cheat. With your attitude, it would not surprise me in the least if you weren't part of this ring, and gained monetarily from the whole dirty business.
    You say you are a professional player. This I doubt very much. You do have an ego the size of all outdoors if you really believe the readers and players in this forum would agree with your take on this situation.

    IMO, you should be banned from all online poker.
     
    2 people like this.
  16. Feb 22, 2009
  17. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Why would those 3 go to prison? Is it illegal for them to be playing poker where they live?

    If so, then of course they're never going to see any of the money they lost. That'd be like someone here in the USA filing a complaint with the DoJ or whatever because a group such as Virtual was stiffing them for their money.
     
  18. Feb 22, 2009
  19. swampwitch

    swampwitch ProfessionalUnderachiever

    Occupation:
    Independent craftsperson specializing in chenille
    Location:
    Iowa, dammit.
    Sorry to butt in, but I believe the OP was talking here about the 3 asses...the guy with the stolen info, and the two others in this "ring".
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Feb 22, 2009
  21. winbig

    winbig Keep winning this amount.

    Occupation:
    Bum
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Nah, the guy that has the stolen info doesn't play - just those two...the three that's referenced are innocent bystanders, which is why I can't understand how they'd go to prison....:)

     
  22. Feb 22, 2009
  23. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    WRONG!!!!!

    They have STOLEN 1000 from the owner of the credit card. It is NOT TRUE that this person will not suffer. He will have to GO THROUGH HELL & BACK to repair his credit ratings because of the knock on effect of losing 1000. He will have to demonstrate to the card company that he was not responsible for the spending, and may have to wait a while for the money back. This could cause him to be unable to pay other bills, put food on the table, or devote himself 100% to work, while the mess is sorted out. He will then have to ditch the card for a new one, and will be forever haunted by the fear it could happen again.
    Once (and if) he gets the money back, the victim of the 1000 loss is the poker room, since they have already paid out to the other conspirators. This leads to what we see in poker today. Endless stories of players finding it hard or impossible to get paid from a poker room, even though they are INNOCENT, simply because the guilty are ALSO using their poker skills to look like "innocent" players.
    Eventually, each 1000 stolen from a poker network is paid back by the players, often by slight increases in rake, devaluation of the value of tournament prizes, and less generous incentives.

    Sadly, even if the OP did the right thing and reported this, there is a chance the poker room will ignore it, believing their own systems to be infallible, and confident that were their any wrongdoing, they would have spotted it. The Absolute Poker scandal was in part fuelled by this arrogance. Players could clearly see some pretty skewed stats, but AP were so arrogantly confident that it was "impossible" on their systems that they dismissed the allegations. It turned out the "impossible" was indeed very possible if you had insiders behind the scam (insiders in high places too), and AP assumed that all employees were 100% trustworthy.

    The OP could have a genuine fear for his wellbeing if he reported this, and the conspirators figured out it was him. An anonymous tip off might avoid this, however, the danger is that the conspirators have read this thread, and know who the OP is, and will put 2 and 2 together if they suddenly find themselves investigated.

    This kind of thing is in no way a "victimless crime", and if the perpetrators ended up going to prison for it, they would be less likely to do it again.

    The poker room WILL of course find out, when they are hit with the chargeback. They will then investigate, and will do a trace on the IP addresses involved, and the accounts involved. The result will be that Turkish poker players will have an even harder time at this poker room in future, as they could be under a cloud of suspicion because of this event slipping through security checks.
     
    6 people like this.
  24. Feb 26, 2009
  25. dreamtheatre

    dreamtheatre Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Turkey
    I have read all the replies carefully and did a lot of thinking over them.

    First of all the credit card holder will not suffer as much as described here. I have learnt that his funds will be immediately returned to him once he calls his bank and then sends a fax describing the incident. The chargeback procedure is not as complex as defined here in Turkey besides there is no proof that the pokerroom finance department can present to the bank.

    I think the pokerrrom must increase its security measures. Before letting smn deposit by credit cards they must find a way to make sure that the one who is making the deposit is the owner of the credit card.

    The only loser here is the pokerrom which i assume can afford a 2000 usd loss.

    I know this is not an excuse but the hacker told me personally that he never intends to the same thing . He feels sorry about it too but he had his own credit card debts and that was the only solution he could find to pay them.

    That is all i dont think there is any need to prolong the issue since the guy will never do it again. Thanks for sharing your ideas and bearing my English:)
     
  26. Feb 26, 2009
  27. zebedy

    zebedy No!!!! Im Spartacus MM webmeister

    Occupation:
    brain stergeon
    Location:
    Up a Tree
    its morons like this that make it harder for the honnest people out, who throught no fault of there own have to jump through hoops when trying to get a cashout or prove there identy, all 3 should be reported to the relevent authorities
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Feb 26, 2009
  29. funky_seagull

    funky_seagull Dormant account

    Occupation:
    unemployed, on incapacity benefit.
    Location:
    scotland
    This makes it ok does it? It's right to steal? Its like saying it's ok to rob someones house because they will get it back on their home insurance.
    How do you know? I was a victim of card fraud involving my debit card. It took 4 working days before I knew. The thief had took every last penny from my account balance and some more taking me beyond my overdraft limit. When I went to the bank they wouldnt do a chargeback. They told me to ring the number of their fraud department to sort it out. I rang them up. I got what felt like an interrogation. The person I spoke to on the phone didn't believe me at first. Because the lowlife who stole my money had deposited it into a casino. And me being a gambler had several gambling transactions on my statement prior. In the end after a long conversation on a chargeable phone number. They said I would get the money back but I needed to sign a declaration form which they would mail to me and I should mail back to them asap. The whole process took about 2 weeks. During that time I was left with no money. And a family to support. During this time because I had gone over my overdraft limit I was getting daily bank charges. By the time I got my money refunded it was pretty much eaten up by the bank charges. I then had to go to my bank and get my charges refunded which took nearly a week to be sorted. The whole experience was a nightmare. So perhaps you should tell this story to your selfish lowlife friends next time they try to justify their evil actions. Think about how they may be affecting others.

    Also you are stealing money from the casino. And yes the casino may have more money than they know what to do with. But it is still stealing and it is still wrong. If thousands of people like your friends were doing the same thing then the casino would eventually go bankrupt or bring out strict rules to protect themselves, which would hurt the rest of the player community.


    They should go to prison. What they are doing is illegal. Stealing money is wrong. How do they know the person they are robbing off isn't poor. They are evil lowlife. If I had the power I would gather them all up. Stick them in a flat glass prison and catapult them into space, like what happened to the villains in superman.

    Not only do they cause suffering to those they steal off. But it is because of these jerks that the rest of the playing community has to be subjected to frustrating I.D. Checks.
     
    1 person likes this.
  30. Feb 26, 2009
  31. BingoT

    BingoT Nurses love to give shots

    Occupation:
    Nursing & Run Bus Trips
    Location:
    Hartford,Ct
    This reminds me of a time I went with the wife to Bed & Bath and the "B" took our credit card number for her own use and she went shopping $6000.00 + worth and did it on the same day.
    I have afew words for them kinda people RIH
     

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