Live Video Feed from Egypt

[lots0]

Al Jazeera has a live feed with Video from Egypt....

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FREEDOM!!!

 

[felicie]

I've been watching this and learning so much the last few days so thank you for posting it lots0.

 

[4 of a kind]

Al Jazeera has a live feed with Video from Egypt....

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FREEDOM!!!

Not sure if you understand the political landscape with your optimistic Freedom thoughts. You better pray that the hundreds of F16's, endless stinger missiles and M1, M1A1 and M1A2 Abram tanks, all supplied by the USA, don't fall into the wrong hands.

Many of the wrong hands are already there and are a big part of this.

 

[felicie]

Hi 4ofakind I know it wasn't directed at me but I'm a big buttinsky and interested in what you mean. Is it not right to wish freedom for the Egyptian people? Or do you mean what we are seeing is not what is happening? Thanks and good to see you.

 

[4 of a kind]

No one knows for sure where this is going to go. We could only hope it turns out for the best for the Egyptian people.

Remember what happened to Iran after the Shah was ousted.

I don't even want to get into what could happen to the region if extremists find their way into power. The Egyptian people could find themselves in a much worst situation if things don't go right.

This revolt by the people are trying to force change for the better. Yet, no plan is being put forth other then to throw the rulers out of office.

If they succeed tomorrow, what then?

 

[felicie]

From the BBC-

For Egyptians, and the millions of Arabs watching closely across the Middle East, these are hugely exciting times. But for all the hope for change, there are also enormous dangers. These are three broad scenarios that could result from the events in Egypt.


CUT AND RUN: MUBARAK GIVES UP PRESIDENCY

The protesters coming out on to the streets of Egypt's cities clearly want Hosni Mubarak to give up the presidency immediately. The most common demand, shouted and painted on banners, is the Arabic word "irhal", meaning simply "go".

In his speech on Friday night, Mr Mubarak offered concessions, but gave no indication that he understood the anger of the protesters. For them, he is the problem, not his government or the fact that the country had, until he appointed Omar Suleiman, lacked a vice-president.

In this scenario, the army would be the key institution that indicates to the president that he must leave because he is the main cause of instability. It would then take charge of securing the country.

But for some Egyptians, and certainly for Western governments and Israel, the sudden disappearance of Mr Mubarak represents potential disaster. The fear is that a power vacuum would result in the sort of chaos in which armed Islamist groups might thrive and the army would need to take over the running of the state.

So far, Mr Mubarak has given every indication that he is resisting all pressure to go.


STICK TO HIS GUNS: MILITARY AND POLICE CRUSH PROTESTS

Though the army and police have been on the streets in great numbers, and many people have died in clashes, the state has not fully unleashed its security forces on the protesters.
The military may be the key institution in deciding how the revolt ends

Normally, the riot police are in charge of dealing with protests and they are usually highly efficient at mass arrests and breaking up crowds with controlled brutality. But the police may have been overwhelmed by the number of protesters, and their determination and fearlessness.

Mr Mubarak could issue the order to simply crush the demonstrations. For this, he needs the army.

The level of violence needed to drive the crowds from the streets would almost certainly leave many dead and could inflame the situation.

Washington, Mr Mubarak's key Western ally, has explicitly called for restraint and an end to violence against protesters.

It is also far from clear that the army would follow orders to fire on unarmed crowds. The military sees itself as non-political and the nation's saviour. To align itself with the president and against the will of the people would be to lose its legitimacy and privileged position in Egyptian society.


TRANSITION: PROMISE TO LEAVE, OPPOSITION JOINS GOVERNMENT

Under this scenario, chaos and violence are avoided, and Mr Mubarak bows out gradually. He might promise to stand down after presidential elections due for September this year.

This would allow parts of the ruling system to survive, but not the president and his closest associates. This is probably what Washington means by an "orderly transition".

In this scenario, Mohamed ElBaradei could emerge as a compromise figure to oversee the transition and establish all new rules for elections, for president and parliament, that Egyptians can believe in.

In any free and fair election, the Muslim Brotherhood would be expected to win a large part of the vote. It is well-supported and respected within Egypt, largely for the work of its charities. But it is untested in government and poorly understood - especially in the West.

How would it reconcile its aim of creating a state ruled by Islamic law with its stated support for democratic principles? Are these mutually exclusive?

Can an overtly Islamist and conservative organisation govern a society which includes about 10 million Christians?

How would it, in government, manage Egypt's relations with the US and Israel?

The Muslim Brotherhood are certainly not the Taliban, but are they close enough to, say, Turkey's AK Party - a moderate Islamist grouping - to come to some kind of workable relationship with the West?
More on This Story
Egypt Unrest
Features and Analysis

 

[LaurieJim]

No one knows for sure where this is going to go. We could only hope it turns out for the best for the Egyptian people.

Remember what happened to Iran after the Shah was ousted.

I don't even want to get into what could happen to the region if extremists find their way into power. The Egyptian people could find themselves in a much worst situation if things don't go right.

This revolt by the people are trying to force change for the better. Yet, no plan is being put forth other then to throw the rulers out of office.

If they succeed tomorrow, what then?

I remember that time, guess my birth certificate is showing I had some family friends who left when the Shah was ousted and fled Iran, leaving everything behind but their lives.

It was a bad time back then and I hate to think of what would happen if the wrong people come into power in Egypt.

Laurie

 

[4 of a kind]

The Muslim Brotherhood

These are the wrong hands I'm talking about....

 

[felicie]

I understand what you're saying but what revolution is really ever organized in a way in which all parties would be happy? These people must be so sick of their lives they can't take it anymore so what kind of hands are they already in? It's not pretty but obviously what they felt they had to do. just my 'starter' opinion.
Also there is absolutely no good reason for anyone or govt to be able to cut a country off from the rest of the world like they did and I wonder how many of us might be in the streets screaming if it happened in our own country.

I'm not trying to get anyone riled up really I'm not. These are just questions popping up in my head and I'm asking. (except for cutting the country off from the rest of civilization) That's really unimaginable to me. whoa.

 

[4 of a kind]

I understand what you're saying but what revolution is really ever organized in a way in which all parties would be happy? These people must be so sick of their lives they can't take it anymore so what kind of hands are they already in? It's not pretty but obviously what they felt they had to do. just my 'starter' opinion.

I've recently have been there of course as a tourist. You have no idea how screwed up and weird these countries are. Their problems are not gonna be solved with a simple revolution. I agree it could be a start for better things to come for them, but I'm afraid it's not that easy.

These countries and their deep rooted beliefs will never change with a simple turn of a switch.

Regardless whether you agree or disagree with the Iraq war, even the power and might of the USA and it's allies and years of efforts and money trying to help convert them to a normal democracy appears to be in vein.

There's a reason that part of the world in reality is still living in the stone age for the most part. Just pray for the Egyptian people and the rest of the middle east this leads to a better world.

Sorry, but I'm not so optimistic. With a population of about 100 million people, you need to realize how small of a group actually is participating in this revolt.

When you have the core of the Muslim world willing to kill themselves in order to kill you cause you don't share their beliefs; the problem is not going to be solved with a small revolution.

The bigger this gets the worse it will become.

On the one hand it could lead to serious civilized change, but on the other the extremists might think their prays are being answered.

 

[jetset]

It's always alarming when these sort of mass demonstrations break out without a responsible (not always reasonable!) police action generally controlling events - things so quickly can go down the road of looting and destruction of property...anarchy in various forms I guess.

And it's not only confined to places like Iran, Tunisia and Egypt - look at the recent demonstrations in London and Athens and Madrid last year and this, which have resulted in malicious damage to property by crowds ostensibly holding peaceful protests.

That urge to destroy or take advantage of a situation either criminally or politically is always close to the surface.

On my way back from ICEi this week I got into an airport conversation with a group of Egyptian businessmen on their way home prematurely from a conference in Europe.

They were understandably frantic with worry over the safety of their families and businesses as the rioting and looting in Egypt took firmer hold.

Imagine how those guys - who are just like me and you - feel about this situation and the apparent ineptitude of the government or the police to control events, whilst the armed forces appear to be neutral but scary.

These guys were confirming that bereft of state protection, neighbourhoods are having to band together to discourage bands of looters roaming the suburbs - call that vigilantism or anarchy - that's the reality for the man in the street.

Mubarak appears to be a tough, ruthless and experienced politician who is likely, if allowed, to play the game to the brink. He's not unlike Zimbabwe's Mugabe in that respect - two stubborn and very dangerous octogenarians.

That's going to make a democratic resolution damned hard.

I don't think anyone at present can predict how this is going to end, and 4ofakind has a point about the dangers of a West-unfriendly takeover and the further destabilisation of the region.

However I'm sure there must be a great deal of behind-the-scenes Western persuasion going on....we had better hope it works.

 

[felicie]

I am amazed that the military holds such loyalty to the people and the same with the people to the military. That is the way it should be I believe and how often do we see that? I think that is one reason I am so drawn to all of it. Something is different. I just hope it is something good and I hope we stay out of it.

And now I must go deal with a bad ice storm as a couple of my relatives back east are texting me in the middle of the night that they are awaiting a doozie. brrrrr it's gonna be a long night.

 

[lots0]

The Shaw of Iran's secret police the

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that was trained and backed by the CIA... One of their favorite things to do to dissenters was to drag them out in the street in the middle of the day and literaly skin the person alive in front of his family and neighbors... While our CIA operatives stood by watching and giving advice... And you wonder why they hate us... They have reason and good justification.

The US military used the Egyptian secret police who are just as bad as the SAVAK, in Iraq. They would tell the Iraqi prisoners that if they didn't talk they would turn the Egyptians Secret Police lose to torture them... the fear of the Egyptian police usually got the Iraqi's to talk...

We have supported Dictators for decades, against our founding fathers principals, against our own countries stated principals... and now we reap the rewards.... Iran and middle east that hates us and a Egypt that will hate us for helping to keep the people repressed by giving this bloodthirsty dictator $1.5 BILLION dollars a year, in blood money...

Now we AGAIN reap the rewards of a policy that does NOT abide by our own standing principals of "Liberty and Justice for ALL".

4 of kind, in case you didn't get it... we created The Iran of today and we have been creating the Egypt of today for 30 years... This is a massive failure of American Foreign Policy that has spanned decades. All because most Americans refused to open their eyes to what our government was doing in our name.

Added
4 or a kind I thought you were a big G.W. Bush fan? You should remember that George said the Egyptian was a Dictator that needed to go, as soon as possible for the good of the egyptian people.

 

[lots0]

Not sure if you understand the political landscape with your optimistic Freedom thoughts. You better pray that the hundreds of F16's, endless stinger missiles and M1, M1A1 and M1A2 Abram tanks, all supplied by the USA, don't fall into the wrong hands.

Many of the wrong hands are already there and are a big part of this.

We put them in the wrong hands when we GAVE them to a Dictator that we KNEW held power by torture and repression of his people.

The people that decided to give Mubarak those weapons in the first place should answer to the American people and the world, for their crimes.

 

[felicie]

We put them in the wrong hands when we GAVE them to a Dictator that we KNEW held power by torture and repression of his people.

The people that decided to give Mubarak those weapons in the first place should answer to the American people and the world, for their crimes.

Take it easy lots0, I think we are all on the same page here in that we believe the Egyptians have a right to decide their own future. We cannot change the past but hopefully will learn from it and don't you get sick of hearing how many people hate us because although they wont be on the nightly news, there are just as many maybe more that were very glad when we showed up.

Did you see the thing they had on BBC last night was it the Dan Patrick Show? sorry no brains no pains lol but it was really interesting and probably a good example of how and what they are experiencing right now. I think these people can do this. They seem strong, well educated and most importantly seem to place great value on life itself. They're over half way there. imo.