Non-Bonus Complaint ...Let The Fun Begin - Re: Banned States & MG

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
The casinos ARE to blame in some respect. Intertops voided comp points and uncleared bonuses, Villento locked an account NOW, yet Jackpot Factory have done the right thing in some respects, they have informed players they have till the 4th November to play off/claim comps and bonuses, and if they don't manage to withdraw themselves, the casino will handle it for them after the 4th. Further, this allows time for savvy players to send in their proof of address if they believe they might be affected by innacurate IP geolocation. It follows that the CASINOS are actually implementing the block, and MG have simply provided the detection tool, so those that locked out players without notice DID have an option to allow them to play off comps and bonuses this weekend, but chose confiscation and immediate no-notice locking instead. These casinos can treat these players so badly since they are no longer wanted, and are simply of no further value to them, but could be a liability if they hit big this weekend as a parting gift while playing off comps and bonuses.

Here is a better way this could have been done.

1) Using the imperfect IP geolocation data, lock all DEPOSIT options, but still allow play with funds already in the account.

2) Email players who have been detected and had their deposit options locked, telling them they must either prove they live in a "free" state, or withdraw their funds by a given date.

3) Lock accounts on the given date for players who have not proved they live in a "free" state, but NOT lock accounts UNTIL security has caught up with pending documentation of those that did seek to prove they were "free".

4) Process all withdrawals, and manually withdraw for players in banned states who did not do so themselves.

5) When empty, close down the locked accounts from banned states, but keep records offline should these players a) Later prove to be in a "free" state and want to play. b) Move house to a "free" state or a "free" country (else they could end up having to allow such players to open second accounts and have a second round of SUB's - they don't like this, do they.


NEW account registration should check IP, and give a PROPER error message as to why a registration that seems to come from a banned state has not been allowed to proceed. NOT something like throwing the player out with "casino error nnnnn", or simply having the software shut down without indication as to why.


Lastly, DO NOT USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO SCREW PLAYERS - It's not THEIR fault that MG have decided THIS law is one they will now obey, after deciding to ignore it in the pursuit of profits before.

ALL online casinos are being watched, while other countries may now be "valued customers", we are seeing what will happen should OUR government decide to ban online casinos. What we are seeing with the USA does NOT impress. In particular, those currently in "free" states could easily find themselves in a "banned" state with little or no notice, depending on state laws passed, and whether casinos opt to obey them or not.
 

Jackpot Factory

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Location
Malta
Reply from David Brickman at the Jackpot Factory

Hi everyone,

David Brickman here. I Was offline most of the weekend so I am must catching up on some of these posting. Forgive me if some of this is repetitive. Due to legal concerns I cant go into exactly why this issue is coming up now but in consultation with MGS we (and all MGS casinos) are going to stop taking bets from players in the now 13 banned states. All players with account balances will receive their money.

We are well aware that many innocent players are going to get caught up in this mess but there isnt too much we can do since the IP blocking will be done at the MGS level. As weve written, any player who does not reside in those states can send in documentation and have their account unblocked.
Sorry US players but this is the best we can do for the time being.

I am sure many players will be looking for a new place to play. My advice is as always, do your homework first. I can only imagine that this vacuum left by MGS will be replaced by many unscrupulous casinos who will be more than happy to relieve you of your money with no chance of ever seeing a withdrawal.
All the best,

David Brickman
VP Player Affairs
Jackpot Factory Casino Group
 

GGW Laurie

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
Joined
Jun 16, 2006
Location
In the Beautiful South !!
Hi everyone,

David Brickman here. I Was offline most of the weekend so I am must catching up on some of these posting. Forgive me if some of this is repetitive. Due to legal concerns I cant go into exactly why this issue is coming up now but in consultation with MGS we (and all MGS casinos) are going to stop taking bets from players in the now 13 banned states. All players with account balances will receive their money.

We are well aware that many innocent players are going to get caught up in this mess but there isnt too much we can do since the IP blocking will be done at the MGS level. As weve written, any player who does not reside in those states can send in documentation and have their account unblocked.
Sorry US players but this is the best we can do for the time being.

I am sure many players will be looking for a new place to play. My advice is as always, do your homework first. I can only imagine that this vacuum left by MGS will be replaced by many unscrupulous casinos who will be more than happy to relieve you of your money with no chance of ever seeing a withdrawal.
All the best,

David Brickman
VP Player Affairs
Jackpot Factory Casino Group
thats the scary part of it all david, so if i have a ip addy from a banned state and dont live in one of the 13 and you already have all my docs on file showing that, am i safe as well as your other players that you have resident docs on?........laurie
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi everyone,

David Brickman here. I Was offline most of the weekend so I am must catching up on some of these posting. Forgive me if some of this is repetitive. Due to legal concerns I cant go into exactly why this issue is coming up now but in consultation with MGS we (and all MGS casinos) are going to stop taking bets from players in the now 13 banned states. All players with account balances will receive their money.

We are well aware that many innocent players are going to get caught up in this mess but there isnt too much we can do since the IP blocking will be done at the MGS level. As weve written, any player who does not reside in those states can send in documentation and have their account unblocked.
Sorry US players but this is the best we can do for the time being.

I am sure many players will be looking for a new place to play. My advice is as always, do your homework first. I can only imagine that this vacuum left by MGS will be replaced by many unscrupulous casinos who will be more than happy to relieve you of your money with no chance of ever seeing a withdrawal.
All the best,

David Brickman
VP Player Affairs
Jackpot Factory Casino Group

This is my point. YOU have given players some notice, so they at least have a chance to cash in any comp points, complete any WR on bonuses they already have, and withdraw before Tuesday. Those who think they might unfairly get logged as being in a banned state can do a little research now, and send in proof so that when their accounts become locked on Tuesday, they can quickly be unlocked. Players who know they are in a banned state can ensure they finish up this weekend, and withdraw. Those currently in free states need to keep an eye on developments, and pre-empt their own state legislature where they seek to implement a state law similar to that implemented in the current set of banned states.

Rogue casinos will most certainly be targeting these banned states, and will probably use generous welcome packages, but can freely screw players who cannot make an official complaint since they are doing something "illegal".

There IS one thing they might be able to do though, IF they are in a banned state, and get screwed, spill the beans as to how the rogue casino was able to circumvent the rules, and maybe the risk of this MIGHT discourage them from screwing players over, since their processors will be shut down, and THEIR domains threatened with confisaction.
 

Jackpot Factory

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Location
Malta
Reply from David Brickman at the Jackpot Factory

Lauriejim,

The answer to your question is yes. Unfortunately, there is no way for us to screen each account individually. MGS is enforcing an IP ban and players who are wrongfully accused will have to send in valid documentation. I realize this is a bit cumbersome but its the best way for the casino and MGS to keep clear of legal hassles.

If you have received this email and dont live in one of these states simply mail in a valid identification and well open your account asap. Feel free to contact our support team at any time with further questions.

All the best,

David Brickman
VP Player Affairs
Jackpot Factory Casino Group
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Lauriejim,

The answer to your question is yes. Unfortunately, there is no way for us to screen each account individually. MGS is enforcing an IP ban and players who are wrongfully accused will have to send in valid documentation. I realize this is a bit cumbersome but its the best way for the casino and MGS to keep clear of legal hassles.

If you have received this email and dont live in one of these states simply mail in a valid identification and well open your account asap. Feel free to contact our support team at any time with further questions.

All the best,

David Brickman
VP Player Affairs
Jackpot Factory Casino Group

I cannot see why MG have shown such a lack of understanding of the Internet, after all, it's all of their business.

The registration process, at least for US players, already holds the details of the player, including their state. Since the IP block is something that can be overridden when a player is found to not be in a banned state, surely the player's state of residence as stored could automate the process, certainly in cases where players have already provided documents and had them verified. With this being a new enforcement, existing players would not have needed to be creative in declaring their state of residence, as might clearly be the case for new players now attempting to register knowing full well they have to appear to be outside a banned state.

The legal argument does not really hold, the position is that the risk is there for accepting ANY US players, banned states or not.

If MGS think this is going to go smoothly, they are much mistaken, and the next week or two will probably see all hell break loose on the forums, with CASINOS taking the blame, and probably justifiably so since there seems to be considerable leeway in how individual casinos are handling this. Contrast the marked and draconian response of Intertops, through to the far more amiable implementation from the Jackpot Factory. If it were purely down to MGS, and with the casinos having no control, the process would be idential across the board, and ALL MGS accounts with "banned state" IP addresses would have been locked out at the same time, not just Intertops accounts.
 

lots0

Banned User - troll posts - flaming
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Location
Hell on Earth
VWM - Your expecting a logical response from people that have a history of never responding logically to problem situations.

The online casino industry has a history of making bad knee jerk responses to problem situations.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Let's not forget the people that can still play, even though they live in a banned state, because their IP points to a state that still isn't banned......which will surely include people from Kentucky as well.

What's going to happen when it's time for these players to cash out (not just for JPF, but every MG casino?) Are they going to be denied their winnings? If so, will they at least get their deposits back from the period that MG started banning IP's until the time they try to cash out? :confused:

on a side note: What is going to happen when Gov. Beshear's lackeys figures out the imperfect ways that MG is blocking IP's? They're going to find out a way to exploit this between now and the December forfeiture hearing and show the judge that Kentuckians can still access and play at these casinos....then it's all over but the shouting. :mad:

MG casinos should be required to go through their customer database and lock out all accounts registered in this banned states at once. Or else the above scenario could definitely come true.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Let's not forget the people that can still play, even though they live in a banned state, because their IP points to a state that still isn't banned......which will surely include people from Kentucky as well.

What's going to happen when it's time for these players to cash out (not just for JPF, but every MG casino?) Are they going to be denied their winnings? If so, will they at least get their deposits back from the period that MG started banning IP's until the time they try to cash out? :confused:

on a side note: What is going to happen when Gov. Beshear's lackeys figures out the imperfect ways that MG is blocking IP's? They're going to find out a way to exploit this between now and the December forfeiture hearing and show the judge that Kentuckians can still access and play at these casinos....then it's all over but the shouting. :mad:

MG casinos should be required to go through their customer database and lock out all accounts registered in this banned states at once. Or else the above scenario could definitely come true.

Yes, but as lots0 pointed out:-

VWM - Your expecting a logical response from people that have a history of never responding logically to problem situations.

Well, actually I was HOPING for a logical response, what I EXPECTED is more or less what has happened. I also EXPECT that this will lead to many reputable casinos becoming embroiled in controversy. Not least, how do they handle VICTIMS of the imperfect implenentation of a blocking of selected states. There are players who are NOT in a banned state, but have the possibility of being dragged into this because of their ISP. There are players who's IP address points to a "free" state, yet live in a banned one. They are NOT being contacted by this automated system, and may have absolutely no idea that a "knee jerk" reaction has been pushed through literally overnight - they will see nothing amiss, and it could take a while for the casinos to get around to realising they shouldn't be taking their bets, and will this mean the innocent PLAYER having to carry the can because the casino says "you should have known" when they have all their play voided since the 4th (if they win), and an apology and thanks for your custom (if they lose, but many will NOT be offered their deposits back).

Those in currently "free" states, and "free" countries will be thinking "am I next?" - how will they know till it happens, and they find out one day when they log in and find their account locked.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
All is well with my MG accounts. The IP ban went into effect today, but since I sent my drivers license in to JPF which was forwarded to MG, I am able to log in to all MG casinos.....
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
VWM -

The account details are irrelevant. Just because you register them once does not mean you will forever live at that location.

Many of my accounts were registered to an address in California - yet most of you know I live in Thailand. My Neteller was registered to an address in California as well - yet given special dispensation to be used from Thailand, where Neteller blocked and locked access.

IP geolocation is an imperfect science - but it's basically all they can do at the moment. I said don't blame the casinos for having to use the crude tools available to them, and I stand by that.

You can, however, complain about the process if you like, some casinos clearly don't have a smooth process for withdrawal, unlike Jackpot Factory. But Nov. 4 has now come and gone and basically I hope all of you who were affected were able to complete whatever needed to be done to get your funds out.
 
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