4 of a kind
Repeated violations of forum rule 1.16 - troll
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2009
- Location
- New York
Before we even get into this thread let’s clearly define two words we use often in casino talk. Cheating- Review the Absolute Poker and the Ultimate Bet scandal. That’s out right hands down cheating. Now the second word is RIGGED. Technically there are two rigs. The legal rigged and then there’s the cheating rigged. The legal rigged would be when games offered from a program like slots and other games they are programmed with a fixed house edge. Let’s say just for example, that according to regulators of course depending on where any casino purchased their license to operate, the house edge that’s programmed into the game must never be above 20%. (Or 80% RTP) As long as the casino never goes below 80% RTP, the games would be considered legal for that jurisdiction. As long as the casino operates in that 20% max house edge range these games would be considered Legally Rigged. Should a casino get caught operating over that 20% house edge would then be classified as Illegally Rigged and cheating.
In addition classification of games being offered like Video Poker and BJ just to name two can be classified as slot machines and or random games. Now that we got that out of the way, let me carry on.
In a recent thread here a BJ player was questioning the fairness involving online casinos BJ software. I responded with a post explaining how I personally felt the RTP’s are way lower as of late then they have been in the past from my years of experiences playing online video poker. I also said this could apply to all other online games being offered since I believe their playing off a set RTP program like slot machines.
Nissosbar, responded to my post in that thread, saying that my comments if were fact, would confirm that the games other then slots being offered online are rigged. Yes, he would be right if BJ and video poker pay-outs are to be based on a 52 card random draw. (53 card decks with Joker in play) On a truly random draw in these games, video poker’s actual RTP would be based on a player’s combined perfect play and the pay-out scale shown with the video poker game one might select to play. While playing video Black Jack on a truly random 52 card draw the actual RTP would also be based on a player’s ability to play perfect strategy.
We all know that slots are in fact technically rigged since the house does have a built in edge figured into the software guaranteeing them long term positive results, since of course these games couldn’t exist otherwise, and luck becomes the key factor for any win. In addition we also know that the RTP can and will be changed periodically one way or the other on these games. Video poker and video BJ games if truly random dealt, a players approach and strategy can alter the RTP’s outcome one way or another. Although video poker and BJ are mathematically proven to give the house an edge from the get go with random dealing, that house edge realistically can be reduced slightly by a player using perfect play proven strategies.
So, if these programmed games offered online are in fact based on 100% random draws, my comments that I made about the casinos lowering the RTP on these card games would be absolutely correct that I’m claiming the games are rigged, and therefore should be considered nothing more then a slot machine. That is of course if in fact these games are being played with random deals in the first place.
Anyhow, back to the million dollar question, are the card games offered online nothing more then slot machines that are legally rigged?
I asked a very good old friend of mine who considers himself a professional BJ player, (and who I’ve had endless personal discussions debating online gaming) to send me again some interesting information he once sent me a while ago about online BJ and video poker since I was going to make a thread about it here. He spends days if not weeks in casinos and with his card counting ability and money management he has confirmed his ability to show long term profit. Many here would consider him a substantial better, but I could confirm he’s not careless. He’s also gifted with knowing when to pull the plug either being up or down. He has amazed a small fortune throughout his life (not from gambling) and has retired for the most part. Although his wife passed several years ago from cancer, and after recovering from that tragic loss, losing his traveling partner amongst everything else that vanishes with a close family death, he decided to make BJ his full time hobby. I myself would enjoy very much retiring and having not only the funds but a casino being used as nothing more then a hobby house. Regardless, he spent a good year investing in his BJ talents online and concluded long ago, that he couldn’t achieve the same results online as live play. He’s convinced it’s just no where the same as live. Remember this is only one mans opinion and I’m sure there are 5 others that will swear their killing online BJ to every one that can’t. Myself at one time being a substantial live BJ player, didn’t take long to realize BJ online wasn’t for me. My first experience playing an online casino way back when, I spent my first month playing BJ and after losing several thousand dollars, moved to video poker and never looked back. Yet, throughout the years when I was having a great session online and was enjoying a decent profit, I still occasionally would visit the BJ game for a quick go of it only to be quickly disappointed again.
Here’s one of the articles which refers to Nevada and Atlantic City.
Do The Casinos Cheat At Video Games
So I had to do my homework. My fellow gaming writers have assumed that because New Jersey is a regulated state, its regulations are the same as Nevada concerning video-poker machines. Had anyone really bothered to talk to the members of the New Jersey Casino Control Commission or ask to see a copy of the regulations? If the anonymous letter writer in Blackjack Forum was right—New Jersey did not have the same rules governing video-poker machines as did Nevada.
I called the New Jersey Casino Control Commission to see if I could ease my fears or fuel my fire. After all, the control commissions of the various gaming jurisdictions set the rules that the casinos must abide by. Supposedly these commissions exist to protect us—the players. I spoke with Tony DiFlorio who told me that while the video-poker machines must conform to the same payback percentage range as any other slot machine, that is 83% to 99% return, "they are considered slot machines" and that there are no separate requirements for them as in Nevada. When I asked him if they must be based on a totally random shuffling of the cards, and that each hand must theoretically appear with its expected frequency, he stated that there were only two criteria for the machine. The first— “that it falls within the payback scheme” (83% to 99%) and the second that "every sequence be in the programming."
"But that means," I said, " that if a natural royal flush is a 40,000 to one shot, the machine could be programmed to pay it once in every 300,000 hands or more?"
"Yes," he said. "The machine has to have the royal flush sequence in the programming just as a slot machine would have to have for example the triple 7's but the frequency is up to the programming."
Two days later I received a set of the regulations from John M. Kovac, Administrative Practice Officer for the New Jersey Casino Control Commission concerning slot machines in New Jersey. No distinctions were made between video-poker and other slots. The information that Mr. DiFlorio had given me checked out. Indeed, the letter writer to Blackjack Forum had been correct. Video-poker machines in Atlantic City are slot machines and the probabilities are not necessarily the same as they would be for similar machines in Nevada. Remember, Nevada is based strictly on the random shuffling of 52 (or 53) cards. The hands will appear in the long run within their expected frequency range. This does not have to be so for New Jersey Casinos. The game will be random, yes, but random the way a slot machine is random—that is, based on a program that dictates the probabilities and not based on the probabilities in a 52 (or 53) card deck.
The bottom line? Here it is. For those of you who can play in Nevada, assuming the problem of like-card discard was just a "blip" or at worst a programming flaw in some machines as Dr. Schneider suggested, all the strategies in this book can be confidently applied because the game is what it appears to be—video poker based on a random shuffle with no variable programming or secondary decisions. The hands will come up with their expected probability in the long run.
Unfortunately, I can't recommend the Atlantic City video-poker games because I can't be confident that the strategies outlined in this book would be the most effective strategies to play on variable programming machines or secondary decision machines—especially for the supposedly better-paying machines. If, for example, the royal flush is a one in 1,000,000 chance instead of a one in 40,000 chance in Atlantic City—a Draw Poker Jacks-or-Better hand such as ten of spades, jack of spades, queen of spades, king of spades and a king of hearts would probably return more by keeping the two kings and discarding the other cards. You might have to play the Atlantic City game based on the "a bird in the hand is worth more then two in the bush" principle. Take your little wins when you get them and be happy. For Atlantic City, the best principles to use would be to choose a video-poker machine as you would choose a slot machine. Use the money management techniques of a slot player because you could be playing a slot machine dressed in video-poker machine's clothing.
But what of other jurisdictions in America? With gambling fever spreading like wild fire throughout the country how can players know what they're playing? They can if they take the time to look over the regulations governing the machine games in the casinos where they wish to play. All regulatory states must explain the criteria of their machines. New Jersey isn't cheating the players (technically)—the rules clearly show what their machines have to be—slot machines returning 83 to 99 percent. The fact that the players and gaming authorities assumed the New Jersey rules were the same as Nevada is their fault.
Here is another interesting article he sent me; I thought this also would be an interesting read, and bolded some comments I thought were important.
Video poker machines use random number generators to determine which cards to deal. This makes the dealing completely random. For this reason, the odds of being dealt a winning hand after the pre-draw are entirely predictable. However, the odds of winning after the discard depend on your discarding strategy.
There have been reports that some Chinese video poker machines contain switches inside the machine that will make the machine run differently and reduce the payout frequency. However, in the United States, the machines must randomly generate the cards, and they must pay out as posted on the payout schedule for each machine. Regulations can differ from state to state, but all states have regulations to ensure that video poker machines operate fairly.
There are gambling groups that keep an eye on how various games, including video poker, are being run. This includes Nevada Gaming Control and other groups. These groups watch for machines that appear to be biased and get rid of them. They often find the biased machines due to reports received from customers in the casinos.
Anyone, particularly the software developer, can claim any payout percentage they want. Without independent auditing (from a reputable firm like Price Waterhouse Coopers, for example) these numbers mean absolutely nothing.
In Nevada and most other locations in the U.S. where casino gambling is legal, the software used in any video poker or video blackjack game has to be approved by the state’s Gaming Control Board or other government entities. In most states (but not all), the law requires that for video games that represent card games, the cards must be dealt randomly from a full 52-card deck or decks. In these games, the house edge on a machine can be accurately determined by a player simply by looking at the machine’s payout schedule and rules. If the payout schedule and rules would give the house a ½% edge dealing fairly from a full 52-card deck or decks, you know that you will be giving up ½% on every bet you place in this game.
So by crooked, I mean any software in which a game is either not being dealt from a full 52-card deck, or in which the cards are not being dealt randomly. Instead, the games are rigged to pay out at fixed percentages just like slot machines.
The fear of this type of crooked software is what keeps most gamblers from playing at Internet casinos. If you are playing blackjack at a land-based casino, and you keep getting stiffs and busting, it is annoying but tolerable because you know you won’t keep getting stiffs and busting forever. Sooner or later you will get your fair share of good cards. But if you are in an unknown Internet casino and you keep busting your stiffs—now there is a really helpless feeling.
In a casino where the software is rigged to give the house a higher edge, the cards may never even out. You may keep busting your stiffs and losing your double downs, or never getting royals or 4 of a kinds or flushes or even pairs of jacks or better, because the software is designed specifically to deal you cards that will make you lose.
Crooked software is perfectly legal in some states and foreign countries. Professional players reported on rigged blackjack and video poker in South Carolina and other places. In South Carolina, the players contacted various manufacturers of crooked machines, and learned that the house edge there could be set at up to the state regulatory limit of 20%. The edge on one game came from changing the dealer’s hole card depending on the cards the player had received. If the player had already busted, for example, the dealer would receive a small card to go with his ten up. If the player had a 19 against a dealer Ten, the dealer would receive a Ten in the hole.
Another manufacturer of machines in use in South Carolina rigged the games by stacking the deck against players—that is, by shuffling the cards so that a large proportion of the high cards were simply placed behind the cut card. The South Carolina Department of Revenue had approved this software as complying with state regulations.
These types of software are legal to use in Internet casinos as well, unless the country where the casino is physically located or licensed prohibits the use of such software. Nevertheless, while this software may be legal, just as it may be legal to set a slot machine to win whatever percentage the casino wants, most players would not consider these games fair.
I know these articles are based on land based casinos in the U.S.A. but are monitored and controlled by Casino Control Regulators. One could only imagine what regulators in third world countries consider fair.
I searched endlessly online trying to find out whom and where are these regulators and their rules for online casinos operating and located in these third world countries. I to a degree know my way around with a computer, but maybe someone here could actually find this information out for all of us.
I would be very interested in also knowing the maximum house edge that any one site can actually be implementing at any given time (if they choose to) which would be totally legal based on the country, state, or providence’s regulatory limit they operate from? What happens if an audit proves their paying less then the local jurisdictions approval from which they operate from? Do they even have a limit on house edge? How often is an audit even required based on their regulations? Are they (audits) in fact even mandatory or a periodic must, or randomly done by surprise by regulators? Are audits done just voluntarily by the casinos when they feel like it to allegedly please the players? If audits are done once a year for online casinos, do they consist of the entire year of all the casinos player’s logs combined which would probably be in the billions of hands? Do they just audit let’s say the last month or two? We know land based casinos post monthly their RTP’s based on regulators findings. Can online casinos have lower RTP’s during any given year while players are reading about their last audit a year ago? Would they just crank them back up again knowing when their going to get audited a month or two in advance? What do the regulators do about rogue operators? How does anyone find out the regulations and rules for the games offered?
Us player’s really don’t know shit about the inner workings of any online casino or any of the laws they abide by. We only know what anyone feels like telling us. Not one casino operator ever come forward and tells us anything about anything except how unlucky we are. Maybe “maddog” who use to post here could shed some light on this subject.
Good accredited casinos do in fact post their audits from reputable companies that do in many cases actually show their RTP average. But based on what I just said above, how accurate are these audits in real time?
Sorry for drifting again, and although I find these topics interesting I should get back to the video poker / BJ debate.
Can any one here tell me where it’s posted at any online casino that any video card game is based on a 100% random draw?
Until I started playing video poker online a decade ago, I never played much of any slot games throughout my live play at land based casinos. When I got into online video poker I obviously felt the game was fair enough to keep playing but truly wasn’t able to compare it to any previous experiences live. Whether video poker is random or slot machine play online I enjoyed it and was satisfied with the results even though I’m a long term loser doing it. Obviously in my warped mind I found the expense to be reasonable for the amount of time and gambling thrill I purchased.
I played millions of hands during this time and stand by my contentions that online gaming is not what it once was, and value my opinion based on my personal long term experience playing it. I consider myself a master of video poker, and my strategy is perfect (except for the occasional mis-click) and it never changes. I played through ruthless months of terrible play but always was able to rebound somewhat eventually. Whatever the reason may be for this change and there are several possibilities, it has changed as of late.
Of course I had several cash outs, some of which I mentioned here, but there use to be many more that would help reduce the total lose column keeping the play at a reasonable cost.
I’m convinced that the past year the play started to go south and especially over the past three months. Last year and several before I foolishly closed the year with loses way over budget. This year I’ve already lost 70% of my annual online budget in less then the first quarter. If the cards were being dealt random during this whole 10 years of play then explain to me why the sudden change. Big hits that also come with big odds are no where to be found. If a royal flush is 40k to 1 - I’m at 400k and still no hit. All other big 4 of a kind hits are no where to be found. I’m not just talking about a bad couple of sessions. I’m talking about over a year of endless deposits with hundreds of thousands of hands. Same professional play throughout, with same software provider (RTG).
The only thing recently taking place, and by recently I mean over a year, is that video poker online is in fact not random at all, and the only possible explanation is that the RTP’s have been seriously reduced. Case Closed
I’ve decided as far as online gaming goes I’m going to reduce my casino deposits and concentrate more with online poker again. The gaming thrill I’ve enjoyed over the past decade playing online casinos will have to get weaned off like quitting smoking. First I’ll reduce deposits by 50%, if things continue for the worse then 75% then 100%, with the hopes of things getting back to normal before I eventually lose my entire annual online budget and fully withdraw. No way will I allow myself to go over budget again this year.
Not sure how much online poker I can take anymore either, and see my future with many more visits to land casinos and private clubs, other then the occasional visits I only took in the recent past, as a result of the fun I once was having online.
I also understand there are many confirmed and well run accredited online casinos. But what good is all the great support, quick payouts, etc. without a reasonable game. How much someone is willing to spend for that gaming thrill does come with a limit for most people.
My decision to reduce and or eliminate online gaming has nothing to do with any casino cheating, or what anyone has to say. I always thought video poker was never random online but didn’t care as long as I felt it was fair. With the present settings I can’t say I still feel that way.
Please don’t try to twist this post into a sore losers rant. I’m totally capable of taking my lumps, and have taken much worse throughout my gambling career. My online budget is exactly that. If I lose it I lose it, there’s always next year.
The truth of the matter here is I find it rather sad that I find myself backed into a corner at this time with online gaming. But at this point at least for me it’s becoming common sense. I learned many gambling lessons the hard way throughout my life, and know I must stick to my present thoughts.
So, are the video games online random or Legally Rigged Slot Machines??
In addition classification of games being offered like Video Poker and BJ just to name two can be classified as slot machines and or random games. Now that we got that out of the way, let me carry on.
In a recent thread here a BJ player was questioning the fairness involving online casinos BJ software. I responded with a post explaining how I personally felt the RTP’s are way lower as of late then they have been in the past from my years of experiences playing online video poker. I also said this could apply to all other online games being offered since I believe their playing off a set RTP program like slot machines.
Nissosbar, responded to my post in that thread, saying that my comments if were fact, would confirm that the games other then slots being offered online are rigged. Yes, he would be right if BJ and video poker pay-outs are to be based on a 52 card random draw. (53 card decks with Joker in play) On a truly random draw in these games, video poker’s actual RTP would be based on a player’s combined perfect play and the pay-out scale shown with the video poker game one might select to play. While playing video Black Jack on a truly random 52 card draw the actual RTP would also be based on a player’s ability to play perfect strategy.
We all know that slots are in fact technically rigged since the house does have a built in edge figured into the software guaranteeing them long term positive results, since of course these games couldn’t exist otherwise, and luck becomes the key factor for any win. In addition we also know that the RTP can and will be changed periodically one way or the other on these games. Video poker and video BJ games if truly random dealt, a players approach and strategy can alter the RTP’s outcome one way or another. Although video poker and BJ are mathematically proven to give the house an edge from the get go with random dealing, that house edge realistically can be reduced slightly by a player using perfect play proven strategies.
So, if these programmed games offered online are in fact based on 100% random draws, my comments that I made about the casinos lowering the RTP on these card games would be absolutely correct that I’m claiming the games are rigged, and therefore should be considered nothing more then a slot machine. That is of course if in fact these games are being played with random deals in the first place.
Anyhow, back to the million dollar question, are the card games offered online nothing more then slot machines that are legally rigged?
I asked a very good old friend of mine who considers himself a professional BJ player, (and who I’ve had endless personal discussions debating online gaming) to send me again some interesting information he once sent me a while ago about online BJ and video poker since I was going to make a thread about it here. He spends days if not weeks in casinos and with his card counting ability and money management he has confirmed his ability to show long term profit. Many here would consider him a substantial better, but I could confirm he’s not careless. He’s also gifted with knowing when to pull the plug either being up or down. He has amazed a small fortune throughout his life (not from gambling) and has retired for the most part. Although his wife passed several years ago from cancer, and after recovering from that tragic loss, losing his traveling partner amongst everything else that vanishes with a close family death, he decided to make BJ his full time hobby. I myself would enjoy very much retiring and having not only the funds but a casino being used as nothing more then a hobby house. Regardless, he spent a good year investing in his BJ talents online and concluded long ago, that he couldn’t achieve the same results online as live play. He’s convinced it’s just no where the same as live. Remember this is only one mans opinion and I’m sure there are 5 others that will swear their killing online BJ to every one that can’t. Myself at one time being a substantial live BJ player, didn’t take long to realize BJ online wasn’t for me. My first experience playing an online casino way back when, I spent my first month playing BJ and after losing several thousand dollars, moved to video poker and never looked back. Yet, throughout the years when I was having a great session online and was enjoying a decent profit, I still occasionally would visit the BJ game for a quick go of it only to be quickly disappointed again.
Here’s one of the articles which refers to Nevada and Atlantic City.
Do The Casinos Cheat At Video Games
So I had to do my homework. My fellow gaming writers have assumed that because New Jersey is a regulated state, its regulations are the same as Nevada concerning video-poker machines. Had anyone really bothered to talk to the members of the New Jersey Casino Control Commission or ask to see a copy of the regulations? If the anonymous letter writer in Blackjack Forum was right—New Jersey did not have the same rules governing video-poker machines as did Nevada.
I called the New Jersey Casino Control Commission to see if I could ease my fears or fuel my fire. After all, the control commissions of the various gaming jurisdictions set the rules that the casinos must abide by. Supposedly these commissions exist to protect us—the players. I spoke with Tony DiFlorio who told me that while the video-poker machines must conform to the same payback percentage range as any other slot machine, that is 83% to 99% return, "they are considered slot machines" and that there are no separate requirements for them as in Nevada. When I asked him if they must be based on a totally random shuffling of the cards, and that each hand must theoretically appear with its expected frequency, he stated that there were only two criteria for the machine. The first— “that it falls within the payback scheme” (83% to 99%) and the second that "every sequence be in the programming."
"But that means," I said, " that if a natural royal flush is a 40,000 to one shot, the machine could be programmed to pay it once in every 300,000 hands or more?"
"Yes," he said. "The machine has to have the royal flush sequence in the programming just as a slot machine would have to have for example the triple 7's but the frequency is up to the programming."
Two days later I received a set of the regulations from John M. Kovac, Administrative Practice Officer for the New Jersey Casino Control Commission concerning slot machines in New Jersey. No distinctions were made between video-poker and other slots. The information that Mr. DiFlorio had given me checked out. Indeed, the letter writer to Blackjack Forum had been correct. Video-poker machines in Atlantic City are slot machines and the probabilities are not necessarily the same as they would be for similar machines in Nevada. Remember, Nevada is based strictly on the random shuffling of 52 (or 53) cards. The hands will appear in the long run within their expected frequency range. This does not have to be so for New Jersey Casinos. The game will be random, yes, but random the way a slot machine is random—that is, based on a program that dictates the probabilities and not based on the probabilities in a 52 (or 53) card deck.
The bottom line? Here it is. For those of you who can play in Nevada, assuming the problem of like-card discard was just a "blip" or at worst a programming flaw in some machines as Dr. Schneider suggested, all the strategies in this book can be confidently applied because the game is what it appears to be—video poker based on a random shuffle with no variable programming or secondary decisions. The hands will come up with their expected probability in the long run.
Unfortunately, I can't recommend the Atlantic City video-poker games because I can't be confident that the strategies outlined in this book would be the most effective strategies to play on variable programming machines or secondary decision machines—especially for the supposedly better-paying machines. If, for example, the royal flush is a one in 1,000,000 chance instead of a one in 40,000 chance in Atlantic City—a Draw Poker Jacks-or-Better hand such as ten of spades, jack of spades, queen of spades, king of spades and a king of hearts would probably return more by keeping the two kings and discarding the other cards. You might have to play the Atlantic City game based on the "a bird in the hand is worth more then two in the bush" principle. Take your little wins when you get them and be happy. For Atlantic City, the best principles to use would be to choose a video-poker machine as you would choose a slot machine. Use the money management techniques of a slot player because you could be playing a slot machine dressed in video-poker machine's clothing.
But what of other jurisdictions in America? With gambling fever spreading like wild fire throughout the country how can players know what they're playing? They can if they take the time to look over the regulations governing the machine games in the casinos where they wish to play. All regulatory states must explain the criteria of their machines. New Jersey isn't cheating the players (technically)—the rules clearly show what their machines have to be—slot machines returning 83 to 99 percent. The fact that the players and gaming authorities assumed the New Jersey rules were the same as Nevada is their fault.
Here is another interesting article he sent me; I thought this also would be an interesting read, and bolded some comments I thought were important.
Video poker machines use random number generators to determine which cards to deal. This makes the dealing completely random. For this reason, the odds of being dealt a winning hand after the pre-draw are entirely predictable. However, the odds of winning after the discard depend on your discarding strategy.
There have been reports that some Chinese video poker machines contain switches inside the machine that will make the machine run differently and reduce the payout frequency. However, in the United States, the machines must randomly generate the cards, and they must pay out as posted on the payout schedule for each machine. Regulations can differ from state to state, but all states have regulations to ensure that video poker machines operate fairly.
There are gambling groups that keep an eye on how various games, including video poker, are being run. This includes Nevada Gaming Control and other groups. These groups watch for machines that appear to be biased and get rid of them. They often find the biased machines due to reports received from customers in the casinos.
Anyone, particularly the software developer, can claim any payout percentage they want. Without independent auditing (from a reputable firm like Price Waterhouse Coopers, for example) these numbers mean absolutely nothing.
In Nevada and most other locations in the U.S. where casino gambling is legal, the software used in any video poker or video blackjack game has to be approved by the state’s Gaming Control Board or other government entities. In most states (but not all), the law requires that for video games that represent card games, the cards must be dealt randomly from a full 52-card deck or decks. In these games, the house edge on a machine can be accurately determined by a player simply by looking at the machine’s payout schedule and rules. If the payout schedule and rules would give the house a ½% edge dealing fairly from a full 52-card deck or decks, you know that you will be giving up ½% on every bet you place in this game.
So by crooked, I mean any software in which a game is either not being dealt from a full 52-card deck, or in which the cards are not being dealt randomly. Instead, the games are rigged to pay out at fixed percentages just like slot machines.
The fear of this type of crooked software is what keeps most gamblers from playing at Internet casinos. If you are playing blackjack at a land-based casino, and you keep getting stiffs and busting, it is annoying but tolerable because you know you won’t keep getting stiffs and busting forever. Sooner or later you will get your fair share of good cards. But if you are in an unknown Internet casino and you keep busting your stiffs—now there is a really helpless feeling.
In a casino where the software is rigged to give the house a higher edge, the cards may never even out. You may keep busting your stiffs and losing your double downs, or never getting royals or 4 of a kinds or flushes or even pairs of jacks or better, because the software is designed specifically to deal you cards that will make you lose.
Crooked software is perfectly legal in some states and foreign countries. Professional players reported on rigged blackjack and video poker in South Carolina and other places. In South Carolina, the players contacted various manufacturers of crooked machines, and learned that the house edge there could be set at up to the state regulatory limit of 20%. The edge on one game came from changing the dealer’s hole card depending on the cards the player had received. If the player had already busted, for example, the dealer would receive a small card to go with his ten up. If the player had a 19 against a dealer Ten, the dealer would receive a Ten in the hole.
Another manufacturer of machines in use in South Carolina rigged the games by stacking the deck against players—that is, by shuffling the cards so that a large proportion of the high cards were simply placed behind the cut card. The South Carolina Department of Revenue had approved this software as complying with state regulations.
These types of software are legal to use in Internet casinos as well, unless the country where the casino is physically located or licensed prohibits the use of such software. Nevertheless, while this software may be legal, just as it may be legal to set a slot machine to win whatever percentage the casino wants, most players would not consider these games fair.
I know these articles are based on land based casinos in the U.S.A. but are monitored and controlled by Casino Control Regulators. One could only imagine what regulators in third world countries consider fair.
I searched endlessly online trying to find out whom and where are these regulators and their rules for online casinos operating and located in these third world countries. I to a degree know my way around with a computer, but maybe someone here could actually find this information out for all of us.
I would be very interested in also knowing the maximum house edge that any one site can actually be implementing at any given time (if they choose to) which would be totally legal based on the country, state, or providence’s regulatory limit they operate from? What happens if an audit proves their paying less then the local jurisdictions approval from which they operate from? Do they even have a limit on house edge? How often is an audit even required based on their regulations? Are they (audits) in fact even mandatory or a periodic must, or randomly done by surprise by regulators? Are audits done just voluntarily by the casinos when they feel like it to allegedly please the players? If audits are done once a year for online casinos, do they consist of the entire year of all the casinos player’s logs combined which would probably be in the billions of hands? Do they just audit let’s say the last month or two? We know land based casinos post monthly their RTP’s based on regulators findings. Can online casinos have lower RTP’s during any given year while players are reading about their last audit a year ago? Would they just crank them back up again knowing when their going to get audited a month or two in advance? What do the regulators do about rogue operators? How does anyone find out the regulations and rules for the games offered?
Us player’s really don’t know shit about the inner workings of any online casino or any of the laws they abide by. We only know what anyone feels like telling us. Not one casino operator ever come forward and tells us anything about anything except how unlucky we are. Maybe “maddog” who use to post here could shed some light on this subject.
Good accredited casinos do in fact post their audits from reputable companies that do in many cases actually show their RTP average. But based on what I just said above, how accurate are these audits in real time?
Sorry for drifting again, and although I find these topics interesting I should get back to the video poker / BJ debate.
Can any one here tell me where it’s posted at any online casino that any video card game is based on a 100% random draw?
Until I started playing video poker online a decade ago, I never played much of any slot games throughout my live play at land based casinos. When I got into online video poker I obviously felt the game was fair enough to keep playing but truly wasn’t able to compare it to any previous experiences live. Whether video poker is random or slot machine play online I enjoyed it and was satisfied with the results even though I’m a long term loser doing it. Obviously in my warped mind I found the expense to be reasonable for the amount of time and gambling thrill I purchased.
I played millions of hands during this time and stand by my contentions that online gaming is not what it once was, and value my opinion based on my personal long term experience playing it. I consider myself a master of video poker, and my strategy is perfect (except for the occasional mis-click) and it never changes. I played through ruthless months of terrible play but always was able to rebound somewhat eventually. Whatever the reason may be for this change and there are several possibilities, it has changed as of late.
Of course I had several cash outs, some of which I mentioned here, but there use to be many more that would help reduce the total lose column keeping the play at a reasonable cost.
I’m convinced that the past year the play started to go south and especially over the past three months. Last year and several before I foolishly closed the year with loses way over budget. This year I’ve already lost 70% of my annual online budget in less then the first quarter. If the cards were being dealt random during this whole 10 years of play then explain to me why the sudden change. Big hits that also come with big odds are no where to be found. If a royal flush is 40k to 1 - I’m at 400k and still no hit. All other big 4 of a kind hits are no where to be found. I’m not just talking about a bad couple of sessions. I’m talking about over a year of endless deposits with hundreds of thousands of hands. Same professional play throughout, with same software provider (RTG).
The only thing recently taking place, and by recently I mean over a year, is that video poker online is in fact not random at all, and the only possible explanation is that the RTP’s have been seriously reduced. Case Closed
I’ve decided as far as online gaming goes I’m going to reduce my casino deposits and concentrate more with online poker again. The gaming thrill I’ve enjoyed over the past decade playing online casinos will have to get weaned off like quitting smoking. First I’ll reduce deposits by 50%, if things continue for the worse then 75% then 100%, with the hopes of things getting back to normal before I eventually lose my entire annual online budget and fully withdraw. No way will I allow myself to go over budget again this year.
Not sure how much online poker I can take anymore either, and see my future with many more visits to land casinos and private clubs, other then the occasional visits I only took in the recent past, as a result of the fun I once was having online.
I also understand there are many confirmed and well run accredited online casinos. But what good is all the great support, quick payouts, etc. without a reasonable game. How much someone is willing to spend for that gaming thrill does come with a limit for most people.
My decision to reduce and or eliminate online gaming has nothing to do with any casino cheating, or what anyone has to say. I always thought video poker was never random online but didn’t care as long as I felt it was fair. With the present settings I can’t say I still feel that way.
Please don’t try to twist this post into a sore losers rant. I’m totally capable of taking my lumps, and have taken much worse throughout my gambling career. My online budget is exactly that. If I lose it I lose it, there’s always next year.
The truth of the matter here is I find it rather sad that I find myself backed into a corner at this time with online gaming. But at this point at least for me it’s becoming common sense. I learned many gambling lessons the hard way throughout my life, and know I must stick to my present thoughts.
So, are the video games online random or Legally Rigged Slot Machines??
