Lapilanders €30K winnings? Not so fast!

[Modde Panahi]

Hey Everybody,

I made the horrible mistake of not checking user recommendations for a casino's reputability. And have been shocked at a number of things I should have noted prior to depositing my money. Normally I glance over the T&Cs to check for obvious red-flags. However, in this particular case, the worst of the terms were hiding further down than I decided to scroll.

I deposited on Lapilanders.com. The first deposit went out the window nearly instantly. But the second saw me going on a mad heater and turning it into €30.000.

As far as I can determine, I was lucky enough to avoid the grossest term they have outlined:
63.4 A player with 1 deposit only will be eligible to cashout a maximum of 15x the initial deposit amount. All further winnings will be removed from the account upon withdrawal request. -By dint of only depositing €100 at a time, and losing my first deposit outright, this term has been avoided.

However, I fear that I am screwed still:
63.1 The maximum net winnings, based on licensee liability, in any 24-hour period per account are limited to 5000€.

63.2 The maximum net winnings, based on licensee liability, per account are limited to 50000€.

Even if, for instance, this clause refers only to sports betting and not casino games, I will still be in for a prolonged and rough ride:
63.3. The maximum withdrawable amount per account is limited to 7000€/month (or currency equivalent), unless otherwise specified in the Terms & Conditions of a specific promotion. Exceptions may be made to players with a higher VIP level, if any, at the Casino’s sole discretion. If a customer wins more than €30,000, the Casino reserves the right to divide the payout into monthly instalments until the full amount is paid out. If the amount to be withdrawn is larger than €7.000 , the remaining amounts will be placed back in the player’s account, to be withdrawn in the following month.

My verification documents were uploaded on the right after midnight on 16/1, and yet remain in review (~48 hours). They do state that the verification process can take up to 72-hours. The first customer service representative was helpful, and helped me upload my documents. However, the second service rep has been utterly atrocious, responding only with copy-pasted pre-canned scripts which don't answer even simple questions.

I predict that a series of events will unfold which will include the standard crap practices that we have come to expect and love from operators who don't offer instant-withdrawals, namely:

• Issues with verification documents, requiring additional materials and subject to a new 72-hour time frame
  • Perhaps even some document "was not uploaded properly"
• Source of income proof (despite having only depositing €200)
• Initial voiding of all winnings except 15x initial deposit once first withdrawal has been requested
  • Lengthy time to resolve the issue
  • Requirement to involve MGA / Mediator organisation
• Account seizure/closure on unexplained grounds requiring escalation to MGA

In the end, I am sure that I will end up only seeing a portion of my winnings while Lapilanders do their utmost to extend the amount of time the funds be available to lose back. A shame really, €30k is life-changing for me.

I suppose this an exercise in stoicism that I am inviting you to undergo with me for the coming days/weeks/months

However, this raises a few questions.
- How are these types of terms allowed when holding a gaming license through the MGA?
- Say that the casino voids winnings, what happens with the funds? Do they simply end up going to the operators bottom line?
- Surely casino operators should be required to present you with the sleazy under-belly T&Cs up front? (I'm thinking a major pop-up message prior to registration stating, that your winnings above x amount will be voided)

 

[The Dude]

Renamed the title to something more concise for Lord Google.

@Modde Panahi - yeah, it pays to read the terms and conditions before playing. That's a schoolboy error.

Whatever you do, don't play your winnings back!

 

[KasinoKing]

Good luck!
(I think you'll need it)

KK

 

[The Dude]

...

However, this raises a few questions.
- How are these types of terms allowed when holding a gaming license through the MGA?

Because they are allowed to do this - this is a marketing firm - not a REAL casino as they are tending you to believe.

- Say that the casino voids winnings, what happens with the funds? Do they simply end up going to the operators bottom line?

The winnings are purely only a winning if they pay out. If they don't pay out, then all the casino keeps is your deposit(s). Unless it is from a progressive jackpot win, (in which the winnings are pooled from other operators) there are really no funds.

- Surely casino operators should be required to present you with the sleazy under-belly T&Cs up front? (I'm thinking a major pop-up message prior to registration stating, that your winnings above x amount will be voided)

Well in most cases when you register, you agree to have read the terms and conditions. I know that is brutal, but it is true.

Casinos used to make an effort to hide terms and conditions - we have had cases where the casinos posted their terms with hidden links (Prime Slots). So it really makes a difference when you cover your ass and read the terms before playing

 

[Modde Panahi]

Because they are allowed to do this - this is a marketing firm - not a REAL casino as they are tending you to believe.


The winnings are purely only a winning if they pay out. If they don't pay out, then all the casino keeps is your deposit(s). Unless it is from a progressive jackpot win, (in which the winnings are pooled from other operators) there are really no funds.

Well in most cases when you register, you agree to have read the terms and conditions. I know that is brutal, but it is true.

Casinos used to make an effort to hide terms and conditions - we have had cases where the casinos posted their terms with hidden links (Prime Casino). So it really makes a difference when you cover your ass and read the terms before playing

I really appreciate your input, given your experience in these matters, @Casinomeister

Is it your position that I am up a creek without a paddle? Would a PAB here make a difference? If not, do you think that the MGA would provide a favorable ruling or compromise if I were to lodge an official complaint (in the event that events unfold as predicted)?

Thank you in advance

 

[The Dude]

I would just be patient and don't fall into any predatory situation that they might try to deal out to you - like enticing you to reverse your withdrawal to play out your winnings. Just forget that they exist and check into your account again after a few days. Watch your emails in case they send you updates or if need something from you.

Who knows, they might value you as a customer and treat you nicely. Paying out a large sum quickly in a public forum can be good PR for them.

 

[Modde Panahi]

Updates to share

• My documents were reviewed and have been tagged approved.
  • 2 x €1k withdrawals submitted and pending using Brite
    • The requirement for review strikes me as weird, since Brite is supposedly an instant-banking option tied to a verified bank account.
• Lapilanders.com is down for unannounced maintenance
  • double you tee eff, mate.

Update 2 for today.

• One of my withdrawals has been rejected. The other one has still not been processed.
  
• Considering that their finance department has had time to consider and reject one of my requests, hopefully the remaining one will be processed shortly.

 

[Modde Panahi]

Update 3


They decided to use their clause:

Suffice to say, I will submit a complaint with the MGA, but am not entirely hopeful. We will see what happens.

 

[dunover]

Those casino terms are straight from the Cup-o-crap 1668/JAZ scam casino bullshit.

Any site that relates any wins they are prepared to pay to how much you deposited is rogue.
Any casino limiting wins to 5k when their games can pay multiples of that figure is rogue.
Withdrawal limits of 7000 a month are lame and disgusting.

The OP is a brilliant example of every casino term you'd want to avoid, in one place.

I mean 'based on licensee liability' which really means 'Wins or payouts of any significance will not be paid as we are a cowboy operation who don't want winners at our site so won't pay them if that happens, or maybe pay a fraction.'

This Crapilanders site needs throwing in the cesspit, never mind rogue pit. Filth.

At times like this, I actually thank f*ck we have the UKGC here to insulate us from this bollocks.

 

[Modde Panahi]

Update 3


They decided to use their clause:
View attachment 163429

Suffice to say, I will submit a complaint with the MGA, but am not entirely hopeful. We will see what happens.

Update 4:

I lodged a complaint with the MGA, describing the issue as well as highlighting the strangeness of the clause. In addition, I called the MGA directly and asked to speak to the department responsible for issuing and maintaining licenses. When I described the term capping winnings to €5K I was informed by the person I spoke to that this sounded highly irregular, and he was not sure that a term like this had been approved by the MGA.

He expects my complaint to be handled and responded to within a few days.

In the mean time, I will be working on withdrawing the remaining €5.2 from my account.

As a side project, I found that the company behind L.C.S Limited (The licensee for Lapilanders) is run by an organisation named CampEon Gaming, and have found their CEO, as well as their Social Media Manager, on LinkedIn.

Thus far, I have sent a message to the Social Media Manager, encouraging her to escalate this case internally, and consider the brand image damage if I were to plaster a screen shot of the notification email across their social media platforms.

Here's for little joe six-pack, I guess.

 

[dunover]

Update 4:

I lodged a complaint with the MGA, describing the issue as well as highlighting the strangeness of the clause. In addition, I called the MGA directly and asked to speak to the department responsible for issuing and maintaining licenses. When I described the term capping winnings to €5K I was informed by the person I spoke to that this sounded highly irregular, and he was not sure that a term like this had been approved by the MGA.

He expects my complaint to be handled and responded to within a few days.

In the mean time, I will be working on withdrawing the remaining €5.2 from my account.

As a side project, I found that the company behind L.C.S Limited (The licensee for Lapilanders) is run by an organisation named CampEon Gaming, and have found their CEO, as well as their Social Media Manager, on LinkedIn.

Thus far, I have sent a message to the Social Media Manager, encouraging her to escalate this case internally, and consider the brand image damage if I were to plaster a screen shot of the notification email across their social media platforms.

Here's for little joe six-pack, I guess.

Campeon - there's a name that doesn't inspire much hope.

 

[The Dude]

Cam peon? Who the heck comes up with these names?

 

[dunover]

Cam peon? Who the heck comes up with these names?

Weren't they the scam marketers to do with Evobet?

 

[deleted20230517]

With such terms and conditions it has to be the most greedy casino i've seen. Geezus christ. 5k net winnings "A day?"

My casino never tossed any terms and conditions after hitting a withdrawl of 120k.

 

[JohnSnow]

I don't understand these casino's with an mga license and these kind of terms. Just like Bcasino. Goes to say that MGA has become a joke. Yes you have to read the terms however they don't really make it easy right? It should be straightforward. Like 30x bonus only max bet 5 or more and that's it. But no let me introduce 21000 other clauses we can confiscate your winnings on.

 

[Modde Panahi]

Update 4:

I lodged a complaint with the MGA, describing the issue as well as highlighting the strangeness of the clause. In addition, I called the MGA directly and asked to speak to the department responsible for issuing and maintaining licenses. When I described the term capping winnings to €5K I was informed by the person I spoke to that this sounded highly irregular, and he was not sure that a term like this had been approved by the MGA.

He expects my complaint to be handled and responded to within a few days.

In the mean time, I will be working on withdrawing the remaining €5.2 from my account.

As a side project, I found that the company behind L.C.S Limited (The licensee for Lapilanders) is run by an organisation named CampEon Gaming, and have found their CEO, as well as their Social Media Manager, on LinkedIn.

Thus far, I have sent a message to the Social Media Manager, encouraging her to escalate this case internally, and consider the brand image damage if I were to plaster a screen shot of the notification email across their social media platforms.

Here's for little joe six-pack, I guess.

Update 5:

Following yesterdays balance voiding, the casino also decided to reject my then-ongoing withdrawal, which I had to resubmit. Please don't ask me why, but with the amount left in my account being €5200, I decided to use €200. And guess what. I now have a new balance of €19.000. Funny how you manage to hit a streak of ridiculous luck when your money is caught with an operator like this. This brings my "legitimate" balance to €10.200 stuck with this operator.

Anyways, I sent an email to support advising them that I broke their €5K/day limit again and demanded that they do not reject my ongoing withdrawal while making any adjustments and requested arrangements to increase the withdrawal. Considering that they will very likely go to extreme lengths to have the funds remain, I think they will do the following:
- Deny withdrawal limit increase
- Employ maximum withdrawal time frame of 72 hours per withdrawal
- Enforce monthly withdrawal limit of €7K
- Void winnings above 10.200 AND reject ongoing withdrawal, forcing another 72 hour processing period.

I have decided to only do 1 spin of a random game once per month until all my funds have been withdrawn. And I don't expect the full process to be completed until March. The reason for this is that the terms also indicate that inactive accounts are subject to closure or maintenance fees at the operators discretion.

Update 6:
In the mean time. I found that the CEO of this operation is a Greek national named <snip>. And am having some serious thoughts towards what to do, and how to go about it with regards to this. Currently, I am thinking of writing a short article outlining this entire experience to share over social media platforms where Campeon recruits customers, affiliates and new staff as well as with journalists and publications in the markets where L.C.S Media are active.

To some degree, it strikes me that I have become 'too big to fail'. Or rather, too big to not gain traction with journalists, bloggers and other outlets. My total winnings at this site now amount over €50K. Irrespective of T&Cs, it is not a good look for an operator of gaming brands.
Update 7:
The MGA replied to me yesterday, stating that I need to turn to the officially designated mediator for L.C.S Limited. In this case it is MADRE, so I filed my complaint yesterday. I guess it is true, the MGA primarily protects its licensees and not the players.

Have a nice day folks.

 

[Modde Panahi]

Update 8:

My ongoing withdrawal was rejected again, this time stating:
"We would like to inform you that your withdrawal of 1000.00 EUR requested on Wed Jan 19 12:31:00 GMT 2022 has been rejected.

Please send us a digital photo of you holding your id or passport in your hands, close to your face, to allow identification.
The papers/documents used for the ID process should be official documents only and the same as the ones you have already sent us.
Please ensure that the photo clearly shows your date of birth and the date of issue and expiry."

Update 9:

Photo taken, and submitted. Anyone wanna take a wild guess that they will insist on a new photo because I have more facial hair now than in my passport photo?

 

[Speedy38]

To bad these kind of scumbags are giving online casinos a bad name! I hope that they pay you mate but I think it will be a hard battle to get you’re money from them. Good luck and don’t play away you’re winnings!

 

[dunover]

Update 8:

My ongoing withdrawal was rejected again, this time stating:
"We would like to inform you that your withdrawal of 1000.00 EUR requested on Wed Jan 19 12:31:00 GMT 2022 has been rejected.

Please send us a digital photo of you holding your id or passport in your hands, close to your face, to allow identification.
The papers/documents used for the ID process should be official documents only and the same as the ones you have already sent us.
Please ensure that the photo clearly shows your date of birth and the date of issue and expiry."

Update 9:

Photo taken, and submitted. Anyone wanna take a wild guess that they will insist on a new photo because I have more facial hair now than in my passport photo?

Have they asked for a mitochondrial DNA test and print out yet?

 

[Modde Panahi]

Have they asked for a mitochondrial DNA test and print out yet?

Not yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if things would come to that.

Update 10: Ongoing KYC
My further proof of identification (Selfie holding ID) has not yet been approved, and is still in review. But given that I have more beard growth and now a days shave my head, I would not be surprised if the next step is to supply them with a photo holding my birth certificate.

Update 11: Additional complaint submission with MGA
I submitted a new complaint to the MGA, this time specifically opining on the terms of service and the extended KYC practices rather than confiscated monies. In this way, at least there is no excuse the MGA can use in the event that they did not follow up with the operator. For instance "The complaint was regarding confiscated funds, and not about the terms & conditions, so we didn't follow up on it with the operator"

Update 12: Streamers & Dreamers
After a bit of digging, I discovered that Campeon Gaming's affiliate program contains clauses for so called affiliate accounts.
AFFILIATE PLAYER ACCOUNT
3.1 Casino player accounts that are used as a tool to promote our brands are for advertising purposes only.
3.2 When using a casino player account to promote any of our brands, Jackpot games are excluded. Any winnings from Jackpot games will be forfeited.
3.3 When using a player account to promote our brands You are bound by the terms and conditions provided by Your Affiliate Manager, the Campeon Gaming Partners Terms and Conditions, and the casino bonus and General Terms and Conditions.
3.4 When using a player account to promote our brands You agree that all winnings accumulated from a raw cash deposit or bonus taken are bound to the max cash out agreed with Your Affiliate Manager. This includes any remaining funds, winnings or raw cash gameplay. In case real amount is deposited on the player account, and winnings are generated, the maximum withdrawable amount will be equal to the total deposited amount within a determined period of time.
3.5 When using a player account to promote our brands You agree that You no longer qualify for any additional casino bonuses apart from those given to You by Your Affiliate Manager.
3.6 When a casino player account is used to promote our brands, normal maximum cashout terms do not apply. Any winnings accumulated from real money and bonus money are subject to the maximum cashout given to You by Your Affiliate Manager

I'm sure that they market their services via Twitch for instance.

13: Hunting for the HQ.
I've been trying to get my hands on as much openly available intel on the company Campeon gaming partners as I can in order to lodge a formal complaint with the EU:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

Unfortunately, Greece is a complete and utter mickey mouse country from the perspective of finding company registries and address lookup.

 

[Modde Panahi]

Update 14: Here we go again

My selfie + ID document was approved. And so I have submitted a new withdrawal request. However, since I spun up that €200 from update 5 to €19K+ here is what will happen next.

- Withdrawal request take 48-72 hours to process and will then be rejected with information that I have exceeded their daily winnings limit and the funds in excess of either €5200 or €10200 will be deducted from my balance.

- I will be forced to submit a new withdrawal request following this, which may create additional hoops to jump through.

- Withdrawals of €1000 will be processed per 72 hour period. Despite using Bright (instant banking) as the withdrawal method.

- Once I hit €7000 in withdrawals, I will be advised that I must wait for 1 month to make additional withdrawals.

 

[Modde Panahi]

Update 15:

I called the CEO of Brite Payment Group who advised me that Brite works exclusively with casinos holding a Swedish gaming license, which L.C.S Limited and Campeon Gaming Partners does not. She asked for an email describing the situation, and would ask her team to look into revoking the payment method.

This makes me realize that Fintech companies offering their payment methods to these scam-operations have a vested interest in not being associated with them. In addition, payment providers are subject to national financial authorities supervision.

Perhaps a better strategy to eliminate these operators is to reach out to the payment providers they use.

If an unknowing player logged into a casino and the only payment option available was a 3-day bank transfer, that would likely save a lot of people from a lot of anguish.

I have thus decided to contact the following organisations to submit my experience for their consideration:
- Klarna
- Mastercard
- Trustly
- MuchBetter
- Neosurf

This is the entirety of their payment processors.

 

[JohnSnow]

Brite group does not only work with swedish licensees. How did you get the ceo on the phone? For the record, I have made many payments and received payments with brite on different platforms that doesn't hold any swedisch licence.

Campeon group belongs to criminals. I know it's a bold claim. Do with it whatever you want. The owners are not from Greece and you will never find them lol.

 

[Modde Panahi]

Brite group does not only work with swedish licensees. How did you get the ceo on the phone? For the record, I have made many payments and received payments with brite on different platforms that doesn't hold any swedisch licence.

Campeon group belongs to criminals. I know it's a bold claim. Do with it whatever you want. The owners are not from Greece and you will never find them lol.

Unfortunately, the more you look into this stuff, the sleazier and sleazier it gets. I am sure that these casinos, even if they were to lose all their payment processors would just start up new brands and easily get a joke-license from the MGA to repeat the cycle.

I got her contact details by navigating LinkedIn and a few other services.

Cheers,

 

[Modde Panahi]

Here's a prelude to confiscating the entire balance, even the (in their opinion) legitimate portion.

Yes, I use a VPN, however I set it to my country of residence 98% of the time, the remaining time I set it to Sweden for either work purposes or to access ASKGAMBLERS -- which I have started to do recently.

Chances are that I have logged into the casino to take screen shots while the location has been set to Sweden. However I have not placed any bets with a location setting outside of my country of residence.

I expect the next update to be a reference to their Terms stating that no VPNs are allowed at all, and the account has been closed.