- how slots work


Experienced Member
Mar 21, 2005
Well, I stumbled across this place earlier today and played some of there games, but what i would really like to know is if anyone has heard of this casino or know if it's legit. If it is legit then im saying goodbye to Microgaming casinos.
Not one i'd heard of. Its administered by X based out of St Kitts & Nevis.

There's a lack of "About" info on the site, the Whois info is clear however. The website seems professional but with so little info on the site about the operation, no info immediately visible on auditing or regulation, its difficult to evaluate objectively. The name itself is a tad unusual for a casino and it doesn't have Google PR.

There have been several threads relating to it and Gold Betting here in the past. Do a SEARCH for "ladydream" on Meister.


Run - very far and very fast!

This outfit and its sisters has been the subject of many heated posts here and at the other site.

Last time I looked the software was Wager 21.

Here are some other *stellar* operations from this group!!

Lady Dream


Lucky Dog Sports

Players Vegas

Largo (dead Jan 2005)
bAdSmoker said:
Well, I stumbled across this place earlier today and played some of there games, but what i would really like to know is if anyone has heard of this casino or know if it's legit. If it is legit then im saying goodbye to Microgaming casinos.

I think meister has this outfit on probation now, but they have a shady background. Also, DO NOT BE FOOLED by the payouts on their play money games. They are NOTHING like the real money games.

I remember their slots used to be exact replicas of IGT slots but I see they are now changed so IGT must have gotten on their a..
(even now some of the graphics look like IGT slots)

In a nutshell, i would proceed with extreme caution.

PS- Its too bad they arent more legit as their slots are very appealing.
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Ladydream - wasn't that the one with the funky BJ screenshot? I forgot what awful thing it showed, but it sure was malfunctioning software.

This was a few years ago. Anyone remember? Bryan?
bAdSmoker said:
Damnit! I figured it was to good to be true. :(

I think the easiest way to tell if it is too good is to check out their "contact" page. If they have no mention of telephone numbers, run the hell away!!! (this one only has email for contact)

ps: Just for shits & giggles, I checked out their "help" page....and lookie here:

Do the Free games payout the same as real games?

Our Free Games are programmed for FUN and give higher payouts.

What kind of BS is that? Is this software rogued, or just the casino itself?
There are 54 items regarding this dump in the Rogue Section here alone if you use "Lady Dream Casino" as the search target on Bryan's search facility. That should give you some idea of the past behaviour of this outfit.
I know it's been discussed in the past regarding free play vs real play and how the payouts are. I just think it's totally unethical for them to do this, and hide it (3 layers deep) in the "help" section of their website that they do let you win more.....just to entice you to deposit. IMO what's to stop them from having a "win" or "lose" switch that's also been discussed in the past. I definately would never play at a casino that has this software.
I tried out there free bonus this morning and could not get thier casino to work on my computer. No matter what I tried it would freeze up after a couple spins, and the website would not start again without restarting my computer. I finaly gave up, bonus still sitting in the account.

Hi all,

Just trying to slowing crawl out of the Xmas lull - but it ain't happening yet; it's like hibernation :D

Anyway, these guys have a history which has been well documented on this site. There were a number of non-payment issues and some rather unorthodox business practices at work. But in September this year, I sat down with their new marketing director who went over with me issues from the past as well as current issues. This is documented here:

He is also a member of the forum and can be contacted here:

The Ladydream page needs to be updated obviously. That is a section from the old Casinomeister site :oops:

But then on another note, I wasn't aware of the "play for fun" being programmed differently from the "play for real". Even though it's mentioned in their T&Cs, that ain't a good thing.
I now remember where I saw that screenshot that I think was ladydream - in the inner sanctum of GPWA.

Probably is still there but I can't access it anymore. It demonstrated a software bug in BJ.

Maybe someone from GPwA can retrieve it for us.
Oh my gosh, lady dream turned into lady nightmare.
I went back today, and it was running fine.
I played for a good 45 minuits, then on the racing game, It gave me three wilds! I held all three buttons, and guess what, server error, It disconted from the server. I went back into the game, and the orginal bet back in my balance, no win. I guess they would blame this on techinal error? Funny it only happened when I hit the top jackpot. The only reason Im not flaming mad it was a free bonus, but I will never pay to play there after that.
Its too bad because the games were really fun, if they were fair.

Amatrine / LadyDream Response

Hello Group,

Thank you for your interest in our casinos. I believe there is a lot of ground to cover, so please allow me to begin. has taken over the Advertising, Affiliate Marketing, and Relations for the following casinos as of April 05.

With the help of the Meister, I became aware of some things that needed attention based upon past communications and outstanding issues that had not been properly resolved. With most of these issues dating back to 2003, I have relied on the Meister to gather information, build a solid bridge of communication, and enable me to address those items with the Casino Management Team at that time.

Since the official launch of in September 05, is the liaison for the aforementioned Casinos. The launch of has been, and continues to be a successful, ethical, and responsive Affiliate Program. values our Affiliates and helps them build successful marketing programs. We have multiple services that can not be found in other affiliate programs, but, most importantly, our Affiliate and Player satisfaction/retention are one of the highest in our industry, based upon the information that we have shared and obtained from various well known and established casino affiliate programs.

Now, that obviously does not preclude us from having new issues that arise from time to time. However, I can assure you that we deal with any arising issue from a practical and fact based position. I have done that with the Meister, and other forums, every time there has been a topic for concern or interest.

Based upon the recent posts there appears to be a couple of items that need to be addressed.

The first matter is from post: winbig72 regarding Free Play vs. Real Play

Our casinos do offer Free Play. In fact that is one of the leading marketing tools we have. You can go to any one of our casinos and begin playing our games for free, instantly. No downloading, no entering in your email address.nothing. Just click and play. We have tens of thousands of people playing our games for free at any given time. They are high quality, attractive and fun.

The Free Play games are designed for that reason. Fun! They are, I play them all the time with my family and friends. The games are high quality flash on these Free Games and it is fun to win, often. That is the fact portion of my explanation.

For the practical portion, our Free Games are not the same odds as our Real Games based upon security reasons. You will find that our security measures are aggressive and better than most. We need them to be. We are not a small mom and pop company, yet we are not the large conglomerate either. We have major investments in all security and counter fraud initiatives. Because slots are not actually random number generated games, slots are subject to pattern cracking. We have seen this in the past, it does exist. And with the proliferation of software cracks and programs readily available, we have taken measures as part of our across the board policy to proactively secure our business, our Affiliates and our Players by keeping them protected to the best of our ability.

Our Players end up staying with us for a very long time. We have remarkable player retention, which is partly because of the quality of our casinos, and partly because of the heavy bonuses we give out to our existing players. In addition to getting Birthday, Holiday, and randomly requested bonuses, we take care of our honest, long term players like no other casino can.

We disclose the difference between Free Play and Real Play in our Ts & Cs. We are an ethical business that offers a great program for Affiliates and quality games for Users.

Our Affiliates enjoy the benefits of having a program like this because we take care of their players and keep them playing.

Unlike many casinos, you can play our Real Games for $0.05 all day long to try them out, for real. A deposit of $20 is required. :)

Our games may not be for everyone. There are many casinos to choose from. We understand and support each players decision to play where they want to. We try to offer the best experience possible for the players that do decide to play our games. We dont offer poker or sports betting. We do offer high quality slots, table games, and soon BINGO.

We respect the opinions of everyone, and understand that our response to the group may not completely satisfy everyones feelings on how a casino business should be run. I encourage you to direct any questions that you may have to me directly at or continue to your post on the Casinomeisters forum. I will be happy to respond.

Thank you all for your time;

FiftyPercent aka Todd and the Team. :thumbsup:
Because slots are not actually random number generated games, slots are subject to pattern cracking.

That says it all for me. Though I appreciate the fact that you came in here to explain - this simple fact is just an obtuse way of saying that your slots are RIGGED.
LadyDream is a Great Casino!


It is nice to see you fast response, thank you. Your opinions are yours, we respect that. If you do not favor our products it is best to move onward, rather than arbitrarily assess our company.

It is important for you to note that ALL online and landbased slots are based on programed payout results rather than random number generation.

Online, only table games are based on random generated odds.

Therefore your assesment of our products being rigged must be the same for every casino slot machine, land based or online. :eek:

Our products and services are all above board. We take pride in delivering the best products we can and servicing the honest folks who choose us as there casino of choice.


Hello / LadyDream

Hello BadSmoker,

Thank you for your post. We are indeed a very legitimate casino and have nearly more than 2000 existing affiliates. We offer a 50% rev share, negative balances are not carried over, and our casinos convert very well.

All of our programs are managed through If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask,
FiftyPercent said:
It is important for you to note that ALL online and landbased slots are based on programed payout results rather than random number generation.

Online, only table games are based on random generated odds.

I think thats a fair point actually. Its well known that "offline" and "online" slots are weighted, therefore the true randomness is not present. Its that old "what is random" argument again :D Lets not go there again again again....

Fifty(Per)Cent said:
For the practical portion, our Free Games are not the same odds as our Real Games based upon security reasons

Care to expand on this one? I'd be interested to know why not.
spearmaster said:
That says it all for me. Though I appreciate the fact that you came in here to explain - this simple fact is just an obtuse way of saying that your slots are RIGGED.

Given the long and frustrating history of these casinos, I have a few questions, too:

1) Is the Wager 21 software still in use? If not what has replaced it and when?

2) Your description of the CashWave management responsibilities is confined to "Advertising, Affiliate Marketing, and Relations" the latter presumably being CRM. This suggests that these duties have been outsourced to your company. That being the case, who handles the actual casinos operational side, who are the owners, and who handles the financial and accounting responsibilities?

3) In what jurisdiction is the group now licensed?

Many of us can still vividly remember the at times infuriating antics of the previous management here and his laptop activities, and you will therefore understand that there exists some cynicism.

The way to dispel this and make a success of the group is obviously to perform in an ethical and efficient manner that answers the needs of the players who constitute your business now and in the future.

Spearmaster is also a widely respected and knowledgeable industry insider who's opinion always gets close attention. That suggests that you might have to work harder at convincing the players that your software is all you claim it to be.
Ladydream Slots

If your slots are preprogrammed to a pattern it is good that you admit it!

To say that ALL online slots are so is a contentious issue. Microgaming, for example, have gone to great lengths to assure players that games, including slots, are completeley random. These businesses may consider your global statement as libel, as it could seriously damage confidence in their honesty and reliability.

There is nothing wrong with cyclic slots if this fact is stated, and no pretence is made to fool the players it is random. In such case, running free games on the same cyclic programme is asking for it from us lot in the UK who play Fruit Machines. Our Fruits are so rigged that the patterns are pretty obvious. Players unfamiliar with the UK should note that this means that the slots can be programmed so as to offer a totally ZERO chance of a certain outcome based on what has happened before (usually a recent Jackpot or cyclic "streak"). Players here though are generally uncomfortable with anything that is not random due to issues in the past, and even in the present when they are totally wiped out by incredible bad runs in so called random games. Cyclic slots should allow them to be programmed such that such long spells of bad luck do not happen. If any players DO experience long losing "wipe outs" on non-random slots, this shows an intent to clean out players rather than give them a long, but controlled, period of entertainment. I thus do not expect to see posts like "I deposited $1000 at Ladydream and was wiped out in 20 mins on their slots". I would expect that the software would NOT deliberately be set such that winning players are purposely given losing slot cycles in preference to winning ones, or that cycles are not given to ensure all players taking bonuses can never win with them.

Incidentally, you are still exposed to pattern cracking in the long term if indeed you can play at 5c, crack the pattern, and bet at $5!! UK Fruit Machine manufacturers are paying dearly for their practice of rigging game patterns, although it is the operators who take the financial consequences. You really would be better off using altered paytables and random reel stepping, and employ a mathematician to double check the paytables before launch!
Q & A / Cheers!

Hello Friends,

Thank you for the opportunity to respond. I am happy to provide additional information as it pertains to the welfare of players, affiliates and good business. Here is what I am not looking for; long and arduous strings of conversations defending our business decisions and Corp infrastructure. This only drains positive time/resources, which I am not suggestion that we are going down that road, however, I feel that jetset may be in the beginning stages of an inquisition:)

At any rate, here are the answers to your questions, and thank you for taking the interest.

Free Games are not the same odds, by providing the free games to anyone who wants to play without any verification or policing from us, puts us at risk for potential risk from software pirates and hacks, we have seen this happen with our games in past. In addition, we liked the marketing approach our free games have with the winning feel. As I have mentioned before, we have thousands of users who love playing our games for free simply because it is fun.

Now to move on to jetsets questions and reasonable cynicism.:notworthy Yes, I understand that past communications were poor and amateur at best, however this operation is different. I have been asked to manage many aspects of the operations via my company, WebMedia1 Ltd. WebMedia1 Ltd is an ad agency that works with various companies and industries in promoting online services and launching affiliate campaigns.

My background is in the search space, which I spent several years in charge of large search companys global business development division.

MGM Media, who has purchased all the software rights from Wager21, has asked me to help them with their image, marketing, affiliate relations, industry relations and strategic alliances. They still run the day to day casino operations regarding player support, security, payment, software upgrades, programming and network infrastructure. We work closely together and I have no problem stepping in to get fast resolution to any issues that arise.

The Casinos are all licensed Curacao.

Understanding that trust is earned, and respect should be granted, they are both bidirectional avenues.

Once again, I thank the group for its time and interest.
It is important for you to note that ALL online and landbased slots are based on programed payout results rather than random number generation.

Your source of this information, I might ask?

*ALL* slots must use a random number generator. The fact that payout tables can be modified or programmed has absolutely no bearing on the outcome of the random number generator. Any game or device where the results are predetermined would likely be in violation of the law in any jurisdiction in the world.

I hereby refer you to someone who is far more knowledgeable than I am in the world of gambling - my friend, the Wizard of Odds.

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Todd - please do me a favor - learn what you're talking about before you rush to judge others. Your experience in the search space won't earn you any credits here.
"play for fun" being programmed differently from the "play for real".
Ok, help me here people.

I thought ALL casinos were setup differently this way from the very first time I played at one many years ago. I, myself, never expected the same play for fun as I did for real. I don't know why I thought this, I guess it was just MY common sense telling me this?:confused:

When I joined Intercasino, I noticed the play for fun was "offline" which just re-confirmed this "feeling, knowledge".

What I am asking is this,was I supposed to think differently then, that "play mode" and "real mode" were supposed to be the same? :what:

Ok, here goes....THAT DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE TO ME AT ALL! :eek: I can't even wrap my thought around that one...that they would be set up the same...I, myself would not set them up the same if I owned a casino, for , fun play is just that, FUN and who cares what the payback is in this mode??

It depends on the game. Clearly if a different and higher paytable is used in fun mode it would be obviously more fun. However, having fun mode BJ repeatedly letting the player win, and real mode holding the house edge would cause the integrity of the software and it's RNG into question. The argument would be that if the software could be rigged to play better than the norm for fun, it could be argued that it could be rigged to cheat at cards in real mode, such as the saga at the "second chance" alleged to be given to the dealer at BJ if the player has won "too much". (Second chance being where if the card is a bust for the dealer, the software discards the result as unacceptable and requests another random number and accepts it whatever - this artificially boosts the house edge considerably, but many players will not spot the deception).
Microgaming has no difference between fun and real modes due to the games being played on MG servers. Crypto fun offline relies on the players own PC and its internal RNG, and they will always be the one to win the rapid fire jackpots.
The problem is really one of addict psychology. they will win big in fun, and be tempted to play for real. They will NEVER experience the degree of winning they had in fun if the fun mode is enhanced. They could be sucked into chasing the dream of getting the winning experience for real, and logic will fly out the window. If fun games are deliberately enhanced, they must be CLEARLY different from the real thing, not a disclaimer buried in the T & C for playing for real money, something like:-

Hello, you are playing for FUN!!!
Please note the games have been programmed to give a continually enhanced level of payouts, which you will NOT experience if you choose to play with real money.

This should appear each time fun mode is accessed.

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