Kiss Casino

[cj.]

I requested a withdrawal from kiss over a month ago for about $700 and still haven't received it. I send them e-mails and once awhile get a response saying they have to wait for the manager's approval. It is ridiculous. This place is a complete joke and should be put in the rogue section.

Hi florst28

What is your Kiss Casino username?

 

[sandmanfromlv]

Pif

Just received payment...thanks to all of those who helped!!

 

[florst28]

hi, my username is Gallin43. Any help in the matter would be much appreciated.

 

[jetset]

Jetset, could you please pm, icq or email me a contact number so we may address the questions you have directly?

email: carlaj@giantrevenue.com
icq: 3422430

thank you.

Here's the thing, CJ. I have no problem contacting your management direct (and we have already been doing a little digging to facilitate that because this dispute is worrying).

But I think that before initiating a private exchange you should consider the fact that very concerned players have started and are posting in this thread and are therefore entitled to some straight and public answers on a particular question that is important because it reflects so often the financial health of an online casino.

That question is a comment in several emails to players that they will have to wait for payment until the casino receives fresh investor-owner funds. That has so often been the precursor to players being left holding the baby that it worries them, and the unfortunate implication is that the casino is not sufficiently healthy in a cashflow sense to pay its players timeously, and should therefore not be accepting deposits until it is.

Another tactic that has previously been used just before a crash is to single out individual and relatively low-value outstanding payouts and pay those to give the impression that issues are being addressed and there is no problem.

But what is really necessary is that players be paid timeously and in chronological order regardless of the amount owed.

If you guys are at an acceptable level of funding I think you should give an assurance here that you can meet your obligations in a timely manner to all owed players, and then back that up immediately by paying owed players...those who are smart enough to read message boards like this will be quick to praise you if they are treated right.

Rest assured we will be in contact with a few questions.

 

[jetset]

??????????

*bump*

 

[cj.]

Hi Jetset, you have contact details for the casino manager so you may take your concerns up with him directly. He has been waiting for your call and has also tried to call you.

Your comments regarding the *players* right to be ensured of our financial stability are duly noted. Each of the players who have not been paid have been contacted individually. Only 1 of the players (aside from Dirk, whose situation is in mediation as I have explained) has been paid so far for the amount of $2500 (plus an ipod!). The player owed $350 is aware of the status of his request and is being dealt with, florst28 knows why his payment has been delayed - a minor issue which he will hear from me about again later today so he can fix it up. There are no other issues, aside from Dirk, which are genuine complaints.

What exactly is your motivation for this? Are you a player elsewhere, an affiliate, an interested party? I am confused as you are not a moderator and have no site for infopowa news?

I hope you dont mind me asking but I am quite new to the industry and the only information available is that once were an operator yourself. How are your casino's going these days?

 

[bagofmaggots]

Oh Boy

I don't know about everyone else, but I can hardly wait to make a large deposit here!

 

[Macgyver]

You'll excuse the long post, but I had a LOT of copying and pasting going on here. For the record, I've played at Kiss (using their bonuses) and lost and won at their casino. What keeps me checking this thread is the following:

(These quotes are in order of posting, but without the date they were posted)

Posted by Sandmanfromlv

I am currently owed $2500 by Kiss which has been pending now for over 2 weeks. While they respond to emails, I have been receiving the standard RTG banking untruths, such as the old Costa Rican banking holiday stall, we're waiting on some banking issues to clear up in a couple of days, and finally, the one that should get both myself and others worried....

"Unfortunately we do not have a date as to when your withdrawal will be payed yet. I will contact you as soon as we do. We are waiting for a wire transfer and all I can assure you is that we are doing everything in our power to have your money for you as soon as possible"

RTG needs to step up and do the right thing here...!

Posted by Jetset

Perhaps CJ would like to comment on this wire transfer that seems to be holding payouts up over there and clarify this issue...does it suggest that they cannot meet their obligations at present, and if so should they still be accepting deposits?

Posted by CJ

Hi All,

Thanks for the comments and feedback. I'll try to respond to as many individual, legit business points as I can ... without offending anyone ;-)

Posted by Jetset

CJ - you missed this one, and I believe some clarification is necessary.

Posted by Caruso

LOL, the old "We're waiting for a Wire Transfer to hit our account" gambit.

I've heard that one once or twice.

Translation from casino-speak: "We're waiting for a few players to make wire transfers and lose, so we can pay you."

Posted by jyde

Uh - can't wait to hear what cj has to say.

I wonder where these wire transfers are coming from (if they exist). Can't think of anywhere in the civilized, world where it would take more than a week to send a wire from (counting from ACTUALLY sent). A wire from CR takes two banking days to hit my account in Denmark. A wire from the states is as fast as a transfer between to banks in my own country -> 1 banking day.

Posted by Jetset

And *BUMP* again! Still no answer, CJ?

I repeat - this is the sort of email from a casino that worries the hell out of me, because we have seen it too many times before - usually just before a financial crisis:

"Unfortunately we do not have a date as to when your withdrawal will be payed yet. I will contact you as soon as we do. We are waiting for a wire transfer and all I can assure you is that we are doing everything in our power to have your money for you as soon as possible"

Perhaps CJ would like to comment on this wire transfer that seems to be holding payouts up over there and clarify this issue...does it suggest that they cannot meet their obligations at present, and if so should they still be accepting deposits?

Posted by cj

Jetset, the only wire which has not been paid is Dirk's and as explained, it is in dispute. This is not related to cash flow but is due to the disagreement over the amount which was owed. Larger and smaller payments have been made successfully during the situation with Dirk.

Posted by Casinomeister

Why would the casino require a wire from the owners in order to pay an apparent legitimate win? My instincts tell me that there is a cashflow problem - thus the warning that went out yesterday. I also gave RTG a call yesterday to give them a heads up on this. The casino should not be accepting deposits if they can not make good on paying their winners.

Posted by Jetset

QUOTE CJ contacted me and said that they spoke with Montana yesterday and expect a solution within a few days.UNQUOTE

That's good, Bryan but did she clarify this "waiting on cash from the owners" excuse?

Posted by Casinomeister

Nope.

Posted by Jetset

Here's the thing, CJ. I have no problem contacting your management direct (and we have already been doing a little digging to facilitate that because this dispute is worrying).

But I think that before initiating a private exchange you should consider the fact that very concerned players have started and are posting in this thread and are therefore entitled to some straight and public answers on a particular question that is important because it reflects so often the financial health of an online casino.

I've bolded the essential question and what appears to be cj's only answer to the question. cj, you've pretty much answered everything else, why not this one? Obviously, it's been posted enough times that you couldn't miss it. Even Bryan hasn't received a response when he asked about it.

If you disagree that it's a valid question that needs to be addressed publicly, then say so. Hoping that it will disappear in the 100+ posts on this thread quite obviously isn't going to happen. Ignoring it is akin to either pretending you're deaf at a crucial moment (i.e. when you just don't want to hear something) or taking the Fifth when you're on a witness stand testifying in court.

So, I'll even ask you myself, cj. From a person who doesn't have any vested interest in anything posted on here other than wanting all questions to be asked:

Why was the wire transfer email sent out and does it indicate problems with your casino? If you were indeed waiting for the transfer, has it been received and therefore you'll have no more problems paying winning players? (bolded again for ease of reading)

Nothing else, just one answer.

 

[jetset]

LOL. I hope I am wrong in observing that you are now trying to deflect criticism by attacking my credibility and implying a hidden agenda here, CJ.

If you are, then that is a tactical error on your part and you really ought to revise it in consultation with your boss, Brian Goodman imo. Perhaps this misjudgement is the result of your admitted unfamiliarity with this industy.

Let's deal with the "casino operator" implication first. You or Brian Goodman have been talking to Warren Cloud (also in Sydney) I would guess. Or perhaps certain notorious and even malicious affiliates that I could name but will not so as to keep things on track in this thread. Back in the early days of online gambling (1996) I was involved as marketing consultant with a Canadian group of casinos that enjoyed some success. After I completed the job and moved on they got into a world of trouble and players were initially screwed before being looked after by MGS...and I was one of their principal detractors despite the fact that I had a minority 10 pc interest in one of their twelve operations (I lost everything invested in it)

I continued in the industry as an independent marketing consultant, and four years back my partners and I additionally started InfoPowa, a subscribed executive news service that also caters for several portal clients.

Independently of these activities I have voluntarily worked with respected people in this industry who share my concern regarding ripped off players and the more undesirable elements on both sides of the fence. Like those industry people I have just mentioned, I have mediated literally hundreds of cases over the years, and before you make any other adverse implications it has been done for free.

Now, perhaps you would care to answer the question once and for all?

Why was the wire transfer email sent out and does it indicate problems with your casino? If you were indeed waiting for the transfer, should you have been accepting deposits without the cashflow to pay your players? Have the new funds been received and can we therefore assume there will be no further problems paying winning players?

 

[bagofmaggots]

Well C.J. ?

Does anyone buy the "be gentile, I'm new" tag? LOL C.J is one sharp operator and I doubt she will give a satisfactory answer to Jetset's question.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Hi Jetset, you have contact details for the casino manager so you may take your concerns up with him directly. He has been waiting for your call and has also tried to call you.

Your comments regarding the *players* right to be ensured of our financial stability are duly noted. Each of the players who have not been paid have been contacted individually. Only 1 of the players (aside from Dirk, whose situation is in mediation as I have explained) has been paid so far for the amount of $2500 (plus an ipod!). The player owed $350 is aware of the status of his request and is being dealt with, florst28 knows why his payment has been delayed - a minor issue which he will hear from me about again later today so he can fix it up. There are no other issues, aside from Dirk, which are genuine complaints.

What exactly is your motivation for this? Are you a player elsewhere, an affiliate, an interested party? I am confused as you are not a moderator and have no site for infopowa news?

I hope you dont mind me asking but I am quite new to the industry and the only information available is that once were an operator yourself. How are your casino's going these days?

CJ - I find it totally unbelievable that you would even attempt to question Jetset's motives. They are one of the most respected posters on this site (and many others) and their aim is clear to me - to try and make sure players (and Casinos alike) are treated fairly.

Seing as your CS continually give bullsh*t excuses as to why it is taking an age to process players payout's, can you serously wonder why your financial stability is being called in to question?

You may be sorting out the problems of players who post on here, but it shouldn't be needed. I'm sure that they are only being taken care of at the expense of other players who do not know about this site.

Your posts continually contradict one another - in regards to my situation alone you claimed I had turned down a $2K cashout (total cr*p), and then back tracked to say I hadn't been paid as my cashin was in mediation - even though the $2K is not in mediation, only the $2.25K is.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Just received an email from Montana saying that a 'Pay The Player' request has been submitted for $3,850??

I really don't understand where they can of pulled this figure from - it's $400 less than they owe me and I'm not happy with it.

The bonus they gave me was for $275 so it's not like it's even that been removed.

I've emailed then to ask where they've arrived at this figure from, but considering their previous form I doubt I'll get it a response.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Amazingly they did respond within minutes - with this:

The Terms and Conditions on the website clearly state that the MAX cashout is 10x the bonus + the deposit. 10 x $275 = $3750. $3750 + $1100 = $3850. If you have any questions, please let us know. Thanks

To which I responded with this:

But as explained when submitting my dispute to yourselves, the offer they sent me contained terms and conditions - with no mention of a max cashout or that further terms existed on the website.

In fact I have never looked at their website for terms and conditions and never been told to. I've previously taken part in two bonuses prior to this one, each time they sent me them via email (inlcluding signup bonus) and never mentioned to look on the website for terms and conditions. On both the previous occasions the emails never contained the terms and conditions, so I emailed support who replied, but they NEVER once informed me of any max cashout.

Seeing as they've NEVER told me that a max cashout exists or that terms and conditions exist on the website, how can you reasonably expect me to be held to these?

Rgrds

Steve

I'm really not happy that they can take the view that I should be held to terms I've never been informed of - or to look for.

It's nice to know that I should be getting more than the $2K Kiss were trying to give me, but I'm still not happy that it's $400 short.

 

[jetset]

Damn, but this is frustrating and it has been dragging on for far too long.

When Montana make a finding the least they should do is explain it to the satisfaction of the player. If you don't get a response to your latest email to them please let me know, Dirk and I'll try to get an explanation through RTG.

 

[caruso]

$3850 is deposit + 10X bonus. They already explained this:

"The Terms and Conditions on the website clearly state that the MAX cashout is 10x the bonus + the deposit. 10 x $275 = $3750. $3750 + $1100 = $3850."

 

[jpm]

But he's saying there was no 10x restriction in the T&C's of the bonus he received that he used to make this win.

 

[caruso]

Yuh, but bereft of a dated screenshot of that page to prove that the 10X rule wasn't there at the time, there's not a lot to be done.

It's an object leeson in the importance of ALWAYS taking dated screenshots when playing at an RTG. Doesn't matter how often you've played there or how good a "rapport" you appear to have with them. Without that proof, you're sunk if they pull this standard trick.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

Caruso - I don't need a screenshot, the terms and conditions were in an email sent to me, with nothing saying terms existed elsewhere.

Jetset - I've just recieved a reply from them but all it says is that "An update has been made to dispute # 2537" ??.

 

[bagofmaggots]

congrats Dirk

Congratulations Dirk. I know its not what you hoped for , but it is a victory none the less WTG

 

[jpm]

It's an object leeson in the importance of ALWAYS taking dated screenshots when playing at an RTG. Doesn't matter how often you've played there or how good a "rapport" you appear to have with them. Without that proof, you're sunk if they pull this standard trick.

Not just RTG, this is good practice for any casino you play at. I always save a web archive of the bonus rules when I claim one. Then after I get paid, I delete it to make room for the next time.

 

[caruso]

Dirk, I'm not trying to play down your case but the terms on the site take precendence. I had an issue with Club Player a couple of years ago: I fulfilled all the terms in the Email only to find I had a load more wagering to do based on the website terms that were conveniently NOT included in the Email. I ended up turning a $200 win into an $800 loss. I didn't contest the misleading Email issue because I knew I didn't have a leg to stand on, in spite of the fact that to include SOME terms, but not ALL, in a promo Email is clearly and intentionally misleading.

If you could prove that those terms were introduced AFTER you played, all well and good, but unfortunately you can't. In your position I'd take this for the victory it is and not bother trying to chase those remaining $400, because the casino have a case you aren't in a position to dispute without a screenshot as proof of a retroactive terms change.

 

[Dirk Diggler]

I disagree Caruso, if you are sent an email with terms and conditions in it and no mention that further terms exist (i.e. no mention of checking website for full terms), then the email terms should take precedence. How can you seriously say terms that you've never been told to look at should take precedence?

I've played three offers at Kiss since they changed to RTG. ALL three of which were emailed to me (including signup) and not once did any of the emails say to see website for terms and conditions.

The previous two didn't have the terms included so I emailed support who replied to me with them. Not once did they mention a max cashout, and NEVER did they say to see website for terms.

 

[jetset]

That Montana email sounds like a holding response, Dirk - they probably don't work over the weekend.

I am inclined to agree with you that this significant "condition" regarding max payout should have been included in the email inviting you to use the promo, and I believe it is worth fighting.

Let's see what Montana does about this after the weekend, and then we'll take it up with the owner of the casino and the RTG people again. Can I confirm that you have a copy of that email giving you the promo details?

 

[caruso]

How can you seriously say terms that you've never been told to look at should take precedence?

You HAVE to look at all terms. It's not a question of anyone telling you to do so or not. It's deceiptful and misleading, no question about that. It's designed to con players, no doubt about that either. All that aside, they still take precedence, and an experienced player should know to check and record them EVERY time he plays. And I DID post warnings about this lot some time ago, as I keep saying.

However, with Bryan and Jetset working for you the casino / RTG may end up considering the beating they're taking to not be worth the $400. In that case, you'll probably receive the outstanding amount. My opinion remains the same: the website takes precedence, although here, and on many past occasions - and many future ones no doubt, knowing the people RTG license to - the fact is being used to abuse the player. It would be poetic justice if they ended up having to pay.

 

[Lurkio]

Wow .. long thread !

So you got your money according to the rules and youre still crying???

The guy is right..there aint no such thing as a free lunch..there are ALWAYS conditions attached to freebies! Grow up! Take your WINNINGS and play elsewhere..what waste of energy! You won fer chrissake! I never win LOL

I dont apologise for playing devils advocate here but you obviously know what you are doing ( ie you play a lot!)..you are the equivalent of semi pros at land based casinos..learn from it.

Is it always RTG that get stick? What are playtec like?

Why would they want to give you the $ 400 after youve agreed to be mediated or whatever? Just how much influence does a board guy and that pompous consultant guy have!!??..very little Ill bet.