Resolved King Solomons: loss after loss!

[praytech]

Wow...

Not long after my bonus issue was resolved (previous post) I deposited again and again and again (over $8,000 in total in a month) and no wins!

I asked for my payout ratio and was told 86%, and that was before my losing streak! I calculated it at around 75%. That's pretty bad, and after $8k in deposits, you would think at some stage a win would be imminent, but no.

They shower you with bonuses (I was gold vip) and give you incentives to play, but at the end of the day, if you keep losing, it's pointless!

I have actually never come across a casino where the odds are so stacked against a player.

I will elaborate further, and provide evidence of the ratios and ongoing deceptive conduct soon.

See Related Threads:

• King Solomons - What Happened?
• KING SOLOMONS Great Customer Service but Can't Win
• CIPHER STRANDS on KING SOLOMONS
• RTG/MG/Playtech Casinos with a Fair Game of BJ
• King Solomons Casino

 

[praytech]

After depositing $300 to $500 + Month after Month for the past 12 months +, and getting 70% bonuses, I have not been able to withdraw ONE FUCKING CENT from this SCAM of a casino!!!!
I have been playing $1 - $5 per spin.
I am really SO pissed off, ...It just can't be true.. but IT IS!
For me: IT JUST IS NOT POSSIBLE TO WIN ANYTHING at this SWINDLING place!
One week ago, I requested transaction details for 2006-2007 ... NO answer.
So King Solomons do not want to provide me with the evidence.

You have to take me on my word: KING SOLOMONS is a GENUINE SCAM.
Today I deposited another $100, $70 bonus, FIVE (5) features (!!!) at Caesar's Empire, not ONE of them more than $60. Suffice to say, I lost all ..AGAIN!

I am DONE with this!!

Me too! i did $8k in one month, just loss after loss! payout ratio under 75%... it's just a horrendous casino to play at! Avoid at all costs!

 

[praytech]

The folks that work at KS are some of the most honest in the business, especially Greg. The WagerJunction group is as honest as they come and as far as I know they have never ever welshed on a bet. As a matter of fact KS just paid out a whopping 330,000 ($514,094.10 USD, as of today) to a player that only deposited 120.

That said, The owners of KS made a HUGE mistake (in my opinion) by moving platforms from RTG to Playtech. Not only was this change over a very bad decision, but the transition from RTG to Playtech was badly botched (again my opinion) and the change over became about as confusing as things like that can get... and that is very confusing indeed.

The migration of KS player accounts and affiliate accounts from RTG to Playtech was, again my opinion, terribly mishandled.

But honest mistakes and bad decisions, in this case, are not in my opinion Roguish behavior. KS may have screwed up on occasion, but I for one want to play at a casino you KNOW will payoff when you hit the big one.

I disagree, and I have the proof! Their payout ratio is the lowest online, at under 85%, and their independent audit is a joke! I will be posting a major expose on King Solomons in the coming days, along with some chat sessions that just makes the mind boggle!

 

[praytech]

please do not open account for me.

I also dont appreciate being sent a username and password via snail mail

A sign of a desperate casino... and having just lost $8k in a month with a payout ratio of 85%, i can see why! IF you get an offer from these guys, run a mile... you've just been tagged for a scam!

 

[praytech]

Hmm.... $8k in one month, not a win in sight, and a payout ratio under 85%.... I really picked a dud with King Solomons...

oh well, you live and learn.. i'll know to avoid them like the plague in future!

 

[maxd]

Attn: praytech.

As you will see I've gathered your posts from the three other threads you posted in. In no case do I see that you were contributing to the original topic. You're obviously on about your own thing and that's why your own thread is appropriate.

When you post unrelated material in other people's threads it is called "hijacking" and it's not a good practice.

Furthermore please don't post the same thing in various threads. That's called "cross-posting" and that's not good practice either.

So: your topic = your thread & one topic = one thread. Okay? Thank you.

 

[praytech]

Attn: praytech.

As you will see I've gathered your posts from the three other threads you posted in. In no case do I see that you were contributing to the original topic. You're obviously on about your own thing and that's why your own thread is appropriate.

When you post unrelated material in other people's threads it is called "hijacking" and it's not a good practice.

Furthermore please don't post the same thing in various threads. That's called "cross-posting" and that's not good practice either.

So: your topic = your thread & one topic = one thread. Okay? Thank you.

I disagree with that in part... in fact, the following was HIGHLY RELEVANT to the previous post, so I don't quite know what to say, other than I believe that I contributed my experience to that post correctly.

King Solomons: loss after loss!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweiger
After depositing $300 to $500 + Month after Month for the past 12 months +, and getting 70% bonuses, I have not been able to withdraw ONE FUCKING CENT from this SCAM of a casino!!!!
I have been playing $1 - $5 per spin.
I am really SO pissed off, ...It just can't be true.. but IT IS!
For me: IT JUST IS NOT POSSIBLE TO WIN ANYTHING at this SWINDLING place!
One week ago, I requested transaction details for 2006-2007 ... NO answer.
So King Solomons do not want to provide me with the evidence.

You have to take me on my word: KING SOLOMONS is a GENUINE SCAM.
Today I deposited another $100, $70 bonus, FIVE (5) features (!!!) at Caesar's Empire, not ONE of them more than $60. Suffice to say, I lost all ..AGAIN!

I am DONE with this!!

Me too! i did $8k in one month, just loss after loss! payout ratio under 75%... it's just a horrendous casino to play at! Avoid at all costs!

 

[maxd]

Well, I hope for your sake that "disagree in part" translates into "agree in principle and will comply" because what you did was bad, BAD forum etiquette and would normally be more than enough to get you booted off.

Given that you splattered your complaint across every dusty old KS thread you could find -- at least four different threads I believe -- not to mention posting your own, twice!, with exactly the same content I'd say that actually hitting a thread that was somewhat related was more accident than purpose.

Just so we're clear here: don't hijack and don't cross-post, please and thank you.

 

[praytech]

well, re-instate my previous thread then!

i had a thread called roguish King Solomons- casino to avoid, but someone deleted it!

Is my experience, even though i spend probably ten times more per month than most people here, suddenly lessened?

the fact remains that if you had wanted me to have my own thread, then the thread that i actually started, relating to non-bonus issues, would have remained there.

instead, you chose to delete that thread, which is of itself quite concerning, as if casinomeister could not live down criticism of king solomons casino...

 

[praytech]

King Solomons - AVOID!

Here is my post again, as it was deleted under odd circumstances:

I have spent to date $8,000 in one month at King Solomons. Despite getting many bonuses (72%), I just could not win! I asked a chat rep for my payout ratio, and was informed it was 86%... this is at a casino that claims all player payout ratios are 97%!

So, I looked over how much I have wagered in total, my deposits, my bonuses, and how many spins actually won (i kept my own stats for the last week), and I came out with a figure closer to 75%!!!!

The chat reps will always come up with offers to keep you depositing, but I just got to a point where i thought, this is $8k of my money that these guys are just keeping! And they always say the same thing - you'll get lucky soon! Yeah right.

I have to tell you, if you are a high stakes player ($1000 per month and up) do NOT play at King Solomons! You can have a look at some of the older threads which say the same thing. Make up your own mind, but be forewarned, MY experience with $8k of deposits is that you cannot win.

I would dearly love to see their true payout ratio... I think it would shock everyone who plays there.

Here is the chat transcript:

{Lyndon} the Payout Ratio is 97%
{player} mine is NOT 97% is it
{player} mine is closer to 79%
{Lyndon} the payout is standard for all the players
{Lyndon} including you as well
{Lyndon} as the system cannot determine
{Lyndon} who is who
{player} i have a chat session where the agent told me my ratio is a lot lower
{Lyndon} or else, it would be a very very intelligent system
{Lyndon} no
{Lyndon} impossible
{player} at that time, before my losing streak, my ratio was 86%
{player} would you like to see the chat session?
{Lyndon} this is what you have calculated
{player} i keep them all
{Lyndon} I know
{Lyndon}
{player} no, this is the amount i was told by a chat agent
{player} 86% BEFORE my losing streak
{Lyndon} anyway, I will need to leave now
{player} I have calculated it is a LOT lower than that
{player} around 75-80%
{Lyndon} because, I will not be in a position to provide you with anymore answers
{player} i have proof that you cannot modify, in the previous chat session
{Lyndon} in regards to your questions
{player} how can you argue with that?
{Lyndon} what do you mean by modify?
{player} you cannot alter the chat sessions, therefore it stands as proof
{Lyndon} this is correct
{Lyndon} and this was told to you by one of my colleagues
{player} okay, well as i said, the agent told me 86%
{Lyndon} I have seen this chat
{player} really, well who was i talking to ?
{player} on what day?
{Lyndon} I do not have to give you any proofs
{Lyndon} I do not loe
{Lyndon} lie, I mean
{Lyndon} sorry
{player} that's what i thought.... anyway, i have the chat session showing my payout ratio as 86%, i have evidence of my deposits, and as far as i am concerned, there is a legitimate cause for concern
{Lyndon} and what I say is based on facts
{player} it's based on ks information
{player} not fact
{player} fact is indisputable
{player} i am disputing it
{Lyndon} so player, I am sorry , but I will need to leave now
{Lyndon} so like I told you
{Lyndon} I will refer the situation to our casino mananger
{Lyndon} Casino Manager, sorry
{Lyndon} and we will get back to you accordingly

 

[The Dude]

well, re-instate my previous thread then!

i had a thread called roguish King Solomons- casino to avoid, but someone deleted it!

Is my experience, even though i spend probably ten times more per month than most people here, suddenly lessened?

the fact remains that if you had wanted me to have my own thread, then the thread that i actually started, relating to non-bonus issues, would have remained there.

instead, you chose to delete that thread, which is of itself quite concerning, as if casinomeister could not live down criticism of king solomons casino...

I deleted that post because you were cross posting the complaint across the entire forum.

Please comply with the forum rules that Max has referred to or take it elsewhere -- last warning.

 

[maxd]

i had a thread called roguish King Solomons- casino to avoid, but someone deleted it!

Yes, because you posted exactly the same thing in other people's threads (that's hijacking and cross-posting) and duplicated it in another thread of your own.

Here is my post again, as it was deleted under odd circumstances ....

I'm sorry to say this but you are behaving as if you've never visited an on-line forum before.

I'm a Moderator here, which means that it's my job to keep the place clean and civil, and improve it along the way if I can.

When someone comes in and splatters a duplicate post across many threads and creates several duplicate threads themselves that creates a hell of a mess which, as mentioned, I have to clean up. In doing so I have done my job, so there are no 'odd circumstances' involved. It was purposeful and deliberate and I have every right and the responsibility to do so.

So let's be perfectly clear here:
- you do not have the right to hijack people's threads by posting your own un-related stuff in it.

- you do not have the right to duplicate your post in multiple threads because that is cross-posting and is not permitted.

- you do not have the right to repost a thread when the Moderator has decided it should be deleted because that's simply unwise: the Moderator will take a strong dislike to you and you'll probably get booted off the boards.

Fortunately I am a patient Moderator and I have cleaned up you messes, gathered all your duplicate posting together in this one thread (including your deleted thread and the new one you very unwisely reposted), stripped your hijack posts out of the other people's threads, and painstakingly explained to you what you've done wrong and how you can avoid doing it again in the future.

Need I mention that it would behoove you take notice and comply? Hopefully not because one more stunt like you've been pulling the last couple days and you're out on your ear!

I trust we're all clear now and things will proceed smoothly from here.

 

[praytech]

I deleted that post because you were cross posting the complaint across the entire forum.

Please comply with the forum rules that Max has referred to or take it elsewhere -- last warning.

Bryan, I DID NOT INTENTIONALLY 'CROSS POST' !! Please listen to what I am saying! I didn't check how old the threads were, I just clicked on the related threads at the bottom of the page!

I posted in these to give MY experience of king solomons, which is bad. i was simply putting my two cents worth in, and agreeing with what had been said!

I really feel like you are expecting me to be a pro at posting, and penalising me for not being an expert. I did what I thought was the right thing to do. I get what you are saying, but it wasn't done to intentionally break any of the rules of the forum.

 

[praytech]

Yes, because you posted exactly the same thing in other people's threads (that's hijacking and cross-posting) and duplicated it in another thread of your own.



I'm sorry to say this but you are behaving as if you've never visited an on-line forum before.

QUOTE]

I haven't posted much in a forum before! That's the point! I'm getting a lot of flak and un-necessary grief because i am being accused of doing something that I did not even know was the wrong thing to do! My intention was to contribute. Geez, why can't you just accept that it was done in error, instead of giving me a hard time over it!

Anyway, the point is that I lost $8k in one month, I am angry, I have been lied to, and I am the victim in all of this! It's not your $8k they have! See it from my point of view.

 

[Roar]

Praytech can you give us a little more detail on the extent of your complaint beyond a particularly bad payout percentage?

For instance, which games did you play and in what manner did you play? I could lose over 10% of bets made on BJ if I hit every time I got dealt a 20 count.

I am more than cautious about MG slots over a week end period. Won't go near them from Friday night onwards.

I agree with the hollow nature of the audits on which casinos seek to rely to prove "game fairness". Totally inadequate. Laughable crap. In MG's case they don't even bother to break each individual game return down let alone a myriad of other audting indice that never rate the merest mention.

Anyway let us in on a little more detail of your quite horrendous experience on the punt if you want to.

 

[maxd]

I'm getting a lot of flak and un-necessary grief because i am being accused of doing something that I did not even know was the wrong thing to do! My intention was to contribute.

Fair enough, let's take it as a given then that your mistakes were honest and no harm was intended. In that case my explanation of what you've done wrong and how to avoid it in the future was entirely appropriate.

So far so good, but notice that you weren't being penalized for not being 'a pro' you were being told -- and fairly politely I might add -- that you were messing things up and that you should stop. It was a serious error to then assume that you knew better and to start reposting your stuff because you felt like it. Moderators moderate and members contribute: don't confuse the two and we can put this all behind us.

So, yes, it sounds like you've had some trouble at King Solomons: let me alert the casino representative to your post(s) and perhaps they can assist.

 

[praytech]

Praytech can you give us a little more detail on the extent of your complaint beyond a particularly bad payout percentage?

For instance, which games did you play and in what manner did you play? I could lose over 10% of bets made on BJ if I hit every time I got dealt a 20 count.

I am more than cautious about MG slots over a week end period. Won't go near them from Friday night onwards.

I agree with the hollow nature of the audits on which casinos seek to rely to prove "game fairness". Totally inadequate. Laughable crap. In MG's case they don't even bother to break each individual game return down let alone a myriad of other audting indice that never rate the merest mention.

Anyway let us in on a little more detail of your quite horrendous experience on the punt if you want to.

All in all, with various online casinos, i have wagered over $4m in around a year, all on slots. I don't play bj or roulette or anything. I think my total deposits at all casinos are about $30k in that period.

Although I don't play there anymore, my best experience was Casino Tropez in both bonuses and wins (and, conversley, payout ratio). I withdrew around $16k from them a while back. Cost me maybe $4k.

My worst experience is definitely King Solomons. Incidentally this is a Playtech casino, not an RTG casino or microgaming.

My total deposits were over $8,000 in just under a month. With that $8,000, plus bonuses of 72% (a further $5,000 or so) I only managed to wager around $180k in total. My average bet was $1.35-$5 per spin (although at times i went as high as $10 to $20 over short periods).

I played just about every game there, and I think it was only diamond valley that had a half decent win ($1,000 on one ocassion). The highest my account EVER reached (with NO cashouts at all) was around $1,200. Take into account that this is AFTER depositing around $400, and going down to almost nothing.

What should have given it away is my high bonuses, the 15% cashback I got (which was lost in about an hour of play) and of course, the constant lack of wins. I should have really twigged when I noticed that i would get a half decent win (maybe $300 or so) then lose twice that again in about a quarter of the time.

Conversations I had with staff were always 'oh well, you will get lucky soon' and 'it's just luck' and so forth, but I really started losing faith in this casino when I had gone through $8k without a decent lookin. As I said, one rep told me that I would get a bonus because my payout ratio was so low, however that bonus of 300 did not get one single win. In a later conversation that I have posted in part here, the rep tells me my ratio is 97%, which is absolutely impossible when you look at how much I have wagered compared to how much I have deposited. I worked it out (after monitoring all spins, wins and losses over a week) to be around 75% payout ratio... in my mind, that is pretty much a scam. I may as well just pay them 25% of all my intended deposits and play in the play money casino!

Just to bring this into perspective:

Casino Tropez
Total Deposits $4000
Total Wagered $1.2million
Cashouts $16000

32Red
Total Deposits $7000
Total Wagered $800,000
Cashouts $0

Another Casino (Don't want to name as they read these posts!)
Total Deposits $5000
Total Wagered $1.8million
Cashouts $2,000

And Finally King Solomons
Total Deposits $8000
Total Wagered $180,000
Cashouts $0

You can clearly see the total wagered amount is well below par. I don't know, maybe I have just been very lucky at other casinos, or maybe the payout figure is really bad... any opinions? Does anyone know what IS going on here?

 

[lots0]

I know I am going to regret asking this, but I just have too...

So praytech, exactly what proof or evidence do you have that Kind Solomons payout rate is under 97%?

In your post where you quoted me, you insinuated that King Solomons was not honest, do you have any proof of that?

 

[Wagerjunction]

Always a Looser

I really think that whenever somebody has a loosing streak online and then goes to a forum to complain there really is no winner at all. The Casino invariably tries to defend itself and the player and other players jump all over the Casino for various things.

Praytech with regards to your posts i can understand you feeling sore and do feel sympathy for you in regards to your loss. I must tell you though and i am sure that you do know that spending a lot of money at a Casino is no guarantee of winning anything .

Saying that i will get my CRM team to take a look at your account and the payout percentages .

As for being rigged or a rogue i think that you need to review the matter in a calmer light

King Solomons has been around for 10 years and no rogue Casino would last that long .

Also it is on the same software platform as Casino TRRRRRR - i cant get that out and the software company that it licenses its software from is a PLC and as they actually manage and run the RNG we are not able to influence game play in any way .

I will be very happy to take a look at your game play as stated and if you can PM me your username myself and my CRM team can take an in depth look at the matter.

I look forward to hearing from you

Regards
Greg

 

[SlotsWizard]

King Solomons has been around for 10 years and no rogue Casino would last that long

Except for this part, that was a great post.

 

[praytech]

I really think that whenever somebody has a loosing streak online and then goes to a forum to complain there really is no winner at all. The Casino invariably tries to defend itself and the player and other players jump all over the Casino for various things.

Praytech with regards to your posts i can understand you feeling sore and do feel sympathy for you in regards to your loss. I must tell you though and i am sure that you do know that spending a lot of money at a Casino is no guarantee of winning anything .

Saying that i will get my CRM team to take a look at your account and the payout percentages .

As for being rigged or a rogue i think that you need to review the matter in a calmer light

King Solomons has been around for 10 years and no rogue Casino would last that long .

Also it is on the same software platform as Casino TRRRRRR - i cant get that out and the software company that it licenses its software from is a PLC and as they actually manage and run the RNG we are not able to influence game play in any way .

I will be very happy to take a look at your game play as stated and if you can PM me your username myself and my CRM team can take an in depth look at the matter.

I look forward to hearing from you

Regards
Greg

Absolutely... I make my biggest point based on the total wagered... it does not take a rocket scientist to work out that if I spend $x, and wager $y dollars, at an average of $z per spin, the payout ratio can be determined by that end result.

If you look at what I have wagered for the same deposit amounts, King Solomons is WAAAAY behind the others! it's not just a minor discrepancy, it's actually quite significant. $8k + $5k in bonuses = $13,000 and couple that with the total wagered of only $180k, one can see straight away that the total amount wagered should have been significantly higher.... the amount wagered is directly proportional to the amounts won. If for example I was winning, then I would be able to wager a lot more than I did. The sheer fact that the wagered amount was much lower than it should have been indicates that either a) the total wagered is inaccurate or b) the total wagered is accurate, therefore the payout ratio cannot be accurate.

Besides, all of that is moot, as I was already informed by chat staff that the payout percentage was lower. Then Lyndon suggests that it is set at 97%, therefore if it was 97% firm, then $13,000 divided by the return to player (which means the casino only takes 3%) should mean that the total amount wagered would be $433,333 on $13,000 spent.

As I have said previously, you produce the exact payout ratio as evidence, and we can discuss it, but until you do, my deposits, low wagered amount, no wins, and overall bad experience remains relevant.

I will supply you my details by pm. I will point out that I had asked for $1,000 of my deposits back because of the poor payout ratio.

 

[praytech]

Except for this part, that was a great post.

how was it a great post? all they did was justify their existence (Wagerjunction being King Solomons) and claim it's just because I lost... and that a rogue casino cannot survive for so long!

They didn't even need to ask me to give them my details, as they could have just pm'd me from the get-go!

i will obviously need to post all of my chats in order to prove deceptive conduct, so you can see the clear pattern.

 

[maxd]

.... Lyndon suggests that it is set at 97%, therefore if it was 97% firm, then $13,000 divided by the return to player (which means the casino only takes 3%) should mean that the total amount wagered would be $433,333 on $13,000 spent.

Umm, have you ever heard of 'gambling'. That's where people offer money in a game of chance in the expectation that they might win but there's a non-trivial chance they'll lose too ... as in lose it all ... and in go-brokey and have nothing to show for it, like you.

I failed statistics (the first time) at Uni but even I know that (a) a few grand is no serious test of a game, (b) subsequent bets have nothing to do with previous bets, (c) if a $0 end-sum was any proof of rigged games then there are legions of gamblers past, present and future who are being fleeced at pretty much any and every game you'd care to name.

PT, you must see that your outrage is your only clear thought here. The rest of it is seriously botched.

PS. I find your request for the return of $1000 of your deposits proof that you're not quite with us on the planet Earth. Think how unbelievably unrealistic that is! If they even considered doing that they've have "me too!" requests flooding their inboxes of the next 100 years ... except they wouldn't last that long because they'd go broke long before that. In a nutshell, you're dreamin' in technicolor!

 

[praytech]

Umm, have you ever heard of 'gambling'. That's where people offer money in a game of chance in the expectation that they might win but there's a non-trivial chance they'll lose too ... as in lose it all ... and in go-brokey and have nothing to show for it, like you.

I failed statistics (the first time) at Uni but even I know that (a) a few grand is no serious test of a game, (b) subsequent bets have nothing to do with previous bets, (c) if a $0 end-sum was any proof of rigged games then there are legions of gamblers past, present and future who are being fleeced at pretty much any and every game you'd care to name.

PT, you must see that your outrage is your only clear thought here. The rest of it is seriously botched.

PS. I find your request for the return of $1000 of your deposits proof that you're not quite with us on the planet Earth. Think how unbelievably unrealistic that is! If they even considered doing that they've have "me too!" requests flooding their inboxes of the next 100 years ... except they wouldn't last that long because they'd go broke long before that. In a nutshell, you're dreamin' in technicolor!

If you are a moderator, why are you wading into this debate, instead of 'moderating' ? As you say, you failed statistics, so that sort of discounts any input you might have, as I had asked in a previous post for someone who could make sense of the stats.

This post of yours clearly seems to be a personal attack. I thought we weren't going to go down that path?

Anyway, statistically, you are incorrect. The total amount wagered shows the payout ratio. THAT is a fact. Unless you can prove otherwise, why even make the statement you did? And you are wrong. At an average wager of $5 per bet, $13,000 IS a good indicator of the payout percentage! It is naive to think otherwise.

And when did I even say that $0 end sum was proof of a rigged game? I NEVER said that, so I would appreciate it if you don't put words in my mouth. I made it clear that I had monitored the results over a period, and I came to a figure of 75% payout, not 97%

Are you seriously telling me that we should just fully trust that casinos tell the truth about their payout ratio?

Are you also telling me that if a player suspects that the games may be rigged, he should just say nothing, and let other players lose thousands of dollars to the same operator?

What is the point of Casinomeister, if not a player advocate? if it doesn't concern itself with allowing players to voice their concerns without shouting them down, then the site simply becomes an advertising medium for the casinos... I'd think that isn't the intention of Casinomeister.

As for the $1k return, I could have just kept that private between me and the casino, but I wanted EVERYTHING to be transparent. i wonder if that works both ways...

 

[The Dude]

...What is the point of Casinomeister, if not a player advocate? if it doesn't concern itself with allowing players to voice their concerns without shouting them down, then the site simply becomes an advertising medium for the casinos... I'd think that isn't the intention of Casinomeister. ...

You may voice your concern, but please follow the posting rules and general posting etiquette. Up until yesterday, you had failed to do so but were corrected. No one is shouting you down.

Max has every right to question your problem, motives, etc., since he manages the complaints here. You need to have a clear understanding on this.

You also need to back off and quit being so aggressive. Thank you.

 

[Roar]

how was it a great post? all they did was justify their existence (Wagerjunction being King Solomons) and claim it's just because I lost... and that a rogue casino cannot survive for so long!

They didn't even need to ask me to give them my details, as they could have just pm'd me from the get-go!

i will obviously need to post all of my chats in order to prove deceptive conduct, so you can see the clear pattern.

Settle praytech. SW was merely pointing to the stupidity of the "we been in business 10 years so we can't be rogue" comment. It was just a nice way of asking the King Solomons rep to stop treating Forum members like frigging idiots. There are RTG Casinos mugging grannies every night of the week that have been around for longer than 10 years.

Your numbers on the King Solomons (I was thinking King Neptunes MG - doh) are as I understand:

wagered $180,00 on variety of Slots

lose $13,000 representing a loss of 7.22% or $7.22 for every $1 wagered.

Assuming you did not avail your self of gamble features (even money no house edge bets) then a -EV 7.22% on Slots does not cause a ripple on my rigged online Casino meter.

I mentioned the weekend MG Slots phenomenon that anecdotally I can attest to as having more than a little substance. But even if the MG Slots were "adjusted" for weekend Slot flunkies then I am still not sure one could label the game as rigged. Casinos are at liberty to adjust Slot returns according to whim especially online.

I know in various countries legislation governs minimum Slot returns but online I am unaware of any such restriction. In the event online Slot returns are not bound by any legislated minimum return I fail to see how they can they can be labeled "rigged" even if they never returned a single $1.

The resident Forum expert in all matters Slots is Vinyl Weatherman Man but I have a feeling he targets MG slots exclusively (and avoids weekends).

He does possess some peculiar knowledge how Slots can be manipulated so follow up with the good fellow as he maybe more obliging than you think.

best of luck going forward.

/

 

[praytech]

You may voice your concern, but please follow the posting rules and general posting etiquette. Up until yesterday, you had failed to do so but were corrected. No one is shouting you down.

Max has every right to question your problem, motives, etc., since he manages the complaints here. You need to have a clear understanding on this.

You also need to back off and quit being so aggressive. Thank you.

I disclosed anything that might be interpreted as skewing my motives, hence I mentioned the 1k refund, so that people reading this post were NOT deceived about what was going on... I had presumed this was the right thing to do. I don't think that it helps Casinomeister to go on the attack like Max did, as it just deters other people from having a viewpoint that is clearly contrary to max's. As for disclosure, does Max have any interest in WagerJunction as an affiliate or someone who makes money from their good name? Just so that this thread IS fully transparent, I would really like to know.

Max has already admitted to failing statistics, therefore any statistical input would be useless. He has waded in to this debate, which is about my personal experience with a rogue operator, in a manner that is not helping this situation, but merely having the effect of tarnishing my rep in this regard.

Making statements like 'it's called Gambling' is not constructive, and I think you know that. I am well aware of what gambling is, and spend around $10k per month at my local casino. I am not new to gambling, and i am also not new to online casinos. The fact remains that my dollar went so much less further at King Solomons than any other casino i have played at (more than 10 in total). So much so that it has (and I hope you can appreciate this) spent a LOT of time writing the thread and dealing with this issue. If it wasn't for the fact that I am CONVINCED that KS's ratio is incorrect (either accidentally or intentionally) I would not have bothered taking this so far.

So, as far as personal experience goes, I believe I am in an ideal situation to say that in my experience, King Solomons is the worst casino to play at, and I do not believe their payout ratio is true and correct.

Still no one has proven otherwise, and they probably won't. If players saw King Solomons REAL payout figures, I personally think they would stay away in droves, especially the high stakes players.

But anyway, I digress...

So, someone PLEASE PROVE ME WRONG! SHOW ME the error of my ways! Give me evidence that the payout ratio CAN NOT be rigged!

It is of note that even the vip manager paid me a bonus because my payout ratio was too low.... and it was a substantial bonus. On it's own , that is not overly significant, but look at the whole picture.

 

[praytech]

Settle praytech. SW was merely pointing to the stupidity of the "we been in business 10 years so we can't be rogue" comment. It was just a nice way of asking the King Solomons rep to stop treating Forum members like frigging idiots. There are RTG Casinos mugging grannies every night of the week that have been around for longer than 10 years.

Your numbers on the King Solomons (I was thinking King Neptunes MG - doh) are as I understand:

wagered $180,00 on variety of Slots

lose $13,000 representing a loss of 7.22% or $7.22 for every $1 wagered.

Assuming you did not avail your self of gamble features (even money no house edge bets) then a -EV 7.22% on Slots does not cause a ripple on my rigged online Casino meter.

I mentioned the weekend MG Slots phenomenon that anecdotally I can attest to as having more than a little substance. But even if the MG Slots were "adjusted" for weekend Slot flunkies then I am still not sure one could label the game as rigged. Casinos are at liberty to adjust Slot returns according to whim especially online.

I know in various countries legislation governs minimum Slot returns but online I am unaware of any such restriction. In the event online Slot returns are not bound by any legislated minimum return I fail to see how they can they can be labeled "rigged" even if they never returned a single $1.

The resident Forum expert in all matters Slots is Vinyl Weatherman Man but I have a feeling he targets MG slots exclusively (and avoids weekends).

He does possess some peculiar knowledge how Slots can be manipulated so follow up with the good fellow as he maybe more obliging than you think.

best of luck going forward.

/

Thanks for that. However, I am not sure how you calculated the EV.... that still seems off to me. That's the problem with slots I guess... it's a really complex science. I can only see that when I was at Tropez and other casinos, I was able to wager a LOT more (like, 10 times the amount) than at KS... it's sort of like saying ' I lost ten times quicker at KS than I have at any other online casino'

Actually, maybe I should simply be stating that, as it is a fact. The payout ratio is confusing for most people but that fact speaks for itself... okay...

FACT: I HAVE LOST TEN TIMES FASTER AT KING SOLOMONS THAN AT ANY OTHER CASINO I HAVE PLAYED AT ONLINE (AND THIS IS A LIST OF MORE THAN 10 DIFFERENT CASINOS).

 

[The Dude]

...I don't think that it helps Casinomeister to go on the attack like Max did, as it just deters other people from having a viewpoint that is clearly contrary to max's. As for disclosure, does Max have any interest in WagerJunction as an affiliate or someone who makes money from their good name? Just so that this thread IS fully transparent, I would really like to know..

I'm not going on the attack - never did. But you have failed to abide by the the posting rules (which you agreed to upon signing up). You need to count to ten, and take a few minutes to read them again. Specifically Section 2 - Posting Complaints.
https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/

You have been corrected a number of times both in private and in public. If you cannot participate in this forum responsibly, then your account will be suspended.

That is the final warning.

Max has no interest in Wagerjunction - he has an interest to do the job he gets paid for which is to moderate the complaints section in this forum.

 

[Wagerjunction]

????

It was just a nice way of asking the King Solomons rep to stop treating Forum members like frigging idiots

Roar i think that you are overstepping the mark here a little bit and making assumptions that are wildly off the mark . I have been a member of this forum for a long time and have never treated anyone like an idiot what i was doing was trying to tell Praytech that if we were rogue we would not now be in business .

There are RTG Casinos mugging grannies every night of the week that have been around for longer than 10 years.

Again can you tell me how many of these RTGs are on the accredited list here - the King Solomons RTG Casino is and i was i think the second or third RTG on Casinomeister and am very proud of that fact .

Also Praytech is playing on the Playtech version of the Casino

Whilst we are here to help players and i do my level best this is called gambling and sometimes you do have streaks both ways - a month ago we had a player win every single jackpot there was to be won and took away over €350k from a €150 purchase .

We cant tell him - well something has to be wrong - the percentages are way out here - so now we wont pay you . We are obliged to pay him as he has GAMBLED and won

One more thing that perhaps did not come out so well in my original post

There is no possible way to manipulate these games on either our part or the software providers part

With regards for the request for $1k back i can tell you that we do not entertain requests like that - what we will do is look at the payout ratio and will will be speaking to Praytech re the issue .

 

[Wagerjunction]

Reviewed

Praytech a little note for you - my CRM team have reviewed your game play and an email with all of your game play data and percentages will be sent to you in due course . I will PM you with further information

Regards
Greg

 

[maxd]

If you are a moderator, why are you wading into this debate, instead of 'moderating' ?

Actually I don't think I was debating anything, I was just trying to bring a little perspective to the scene. Please notice that I didn't say anything about the validity of your request to KS to cough up some data for you, I was just trying to remind you that gamblers have swings and it could well be the case that you're on one of them. Maybe, maybe not, but if you re-read my post with a beer in your hand instead of a hatchet you might see that.

As you say, you failed statistics, so that sort of discounts any input you might have ...

Actually you might want to have a look at that again. I said I failed it 'the first time'. I did quite nicely on the second go.

And when did I even say that $0 end sum was proof of a rigged game? I NEVER said that, so I would appreciate it if you don't put words in my mouth.

Having just re-read your posts I think I'm quite comfortable in stating that that's virtually all you have been saying. Statements like "I have actually never come across a casino where the odds are so stacked against a player" have formed the bulk of your contribution here and it's hard to read things like that any other way.

You're entitled to your opinion of course but my point was and is that your opinion seems more about your rage at losing than anything else. Hence I don't see that I was putting words in your mouth at all, merely highlighting and underscoring what you've already said.

Are you also telling me that if a player suspects that the games may be rigged, he should just say nothing, and let other players lose thousands of dollars to the same operator?

You don't know much about my work here do you? Have a look at the Past PABs and you'll have a good idea how misplaced your question really is. The PABs since December have been the bulk of my work here at Casinomeister.

I don't think that it helps Casinomeister to go on the attack like Max did ...

Again, I suggest you read those posts a little closer. You're doing the attacking sweat-pea, not me.

He has waded in to this debate, which is about my personal experience with a rogue operator, in a manner that is not helping this situation, but merely having the effect of tarnishing my rep in this regard.

(a) Just to be clear, KS is not officially a 'rogue casino' at this time. You're obviously not liking how thing's have gone for you there but that doesn't make them Rogue. (b) Your 'rep' was plenty tarnished by your highly inappropriate use of our forums from the get-go, for which you've made no apology as I recall, not to mention your in-your-face approach to this discussion since. I can't see that I've done anything to worsen that.

Max ... has an interest to do the job he gets paid for which is to moderate the complaints section in this forum.

An excellent point, which I'll take as a queue to abandon my attempt to help settle praytech's mind and recognize that I will find my time better spent elsewhere at Casinomeister today. :nod:

 

[praytech]

well, i guess we agree to disagree.

Fact is, I have lost ten times quicker at King Solomons than at any other of the 10 casinos I have played at...

 

[praytech]

Praytech a little note for you - my CRM team have reviewed your game play and an email with all of your game play data and percentages will be sent to you in due course . I will PM you with further information

Regards
Greg

To quote your pm,

Hi Justin

My guys have pulled a report that has indicated to us that your overall payout ration is 92.1%

They are emailing over the details of each game and the overall and then you can examine it if you wish

I look forward to hearing from you re this

Regards
Greg

Rubbish! Let's see the report! I was going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you would help here, and give me truthful answers, but that ratio goes against not only what I have experienced but also what I have already been told by your own staff.

How can you possibly get that ratio with the low level of wagers I have been able to make with my deposits?

 

[Fleur-De-Lis]

May be it is not too wise to get involved in such a heated discussion, but I just felt obliged to share my experience, since I was playing in KS for over half a year. While I did have a fair share of complaints (concerning customer service people who are not too helpful, slower-than-one-would-like withdrawal processing etc.), I must say they in no way struck me as a potential rogue enterprise. In fact, for the time being it might be the only casino I regularly play at where I have "plus" balance - i.e. where I withdrew more than I deposited.
The KS games ARE very streaky, especially slots, that's true... but that's just SO nice when you get the LUCKY streak

 

[praytech]

May be it is not too wise to get involved in such a heated discussion, but I just felt obliged to share my experience, since I was playing in KS for over half a year. While I did have a fair share of complaints (concerning customer service people who are not too helpful, slower-than-one-would-like withdrawal processing etc.), I must say they in no way struck me as a potential rogue enterprise. In fact, for the time being it might be the only casino I regularly play at where I have "plus" balance - i.e. where I withdrew more than I deposited.
The KS games ARE very streaky, especially slots, that's true... but that's just SO nice when you get the LUCKY streak

Well, congrats then. My experience has been the opposite, and from other posts on casinomeister, it seems the vast majority of other players have experienced what I have.. a casino that just takes your money

 

[Janek12]

Praytech, I myself lost more than 20k USD over the last 2 years, mostly in Playtech casinos; so I think I know how it hurts to lose a lot of money.
I have a lot of experience with various Playtech casinos and now, when I avoid lots of errors that I was doing as a novice and do not let the way I play be influenced by unrealistic expectations, I find the software fair (at least it seems to me that it is fair to me ).

I also think you need to take your experience on Playtech software as a whole:
You won 12k at Casino Tropez and lost 8k at King Solomons. So you managed to win 4k overall. Statistically, you are way ahead, in my opinion.
So I think, from a purely mathematical point of view, even if you encountered another loss of a few thousand at KS (not that I would wish you to experience it), it would still not mean that the software is rigged, IMHO.

Also, if you do not use any steep progressions (you wrote your bets are from 1 USD to 5 USD), I think it is quite possible to experience a downswing and to lose 8k (especially with 5 USD bets).

To sum it up, I think your point of view should be that so far, your slots payout percentage has been way above 100 % on Playtech, since you are 4k USD up (if I get the numbers right from what you have posted).

Best of luck in your life!

 

[Wagerjunction]

Stats

Praytech i am helping you - I am giving you the cold hard statistical facts that we have on your game play . This is taken directly form the Playtech system .

If you wish i can and will send a screenshot of this to the Casinomeister for verification of this data

You are welcome to post the data that you get from my CRM team as well seeing as you posted my PMs .

I also think that there is not much more to be said re this - you seem bent on tarnishing the good reputation of KS because you had an unlucky streak .

I am sorry that you lost but that is why they call it gambling .

As for your statement

Well, congrats then. My experience has been the opposite, and from other posts on casinomeister, it seems the vast majority of other players have experienced what I have.. a casino that just takes your money

I dont think that i need to point out that winners hardly ever draw publicity to themselves .

I do wonder though if there is some other force at play here . Ever the Cynic i am .

 

[praytech]

Praytech, I myself lost more than 20k USD over the last 2 years, mostly in Playtech casinos; so I think I know how it hurts to lose a lot of money.
I have a lot of experience with various Playtech casinos and now, when I avoid lots of errors that I was doing as a novice and do not let the way I play be influenced by unrealistic expectations, I find the software fair (at least it seems to me that it is fair to me ).

I also think you need to take your experience on Playtech software as a whole:
You won 12k at Casino Tropez and lost 8k at King Solomons. So you managed to win 4k overall. Statistically, you are way ahead, in my opinion.
So I think, from a purely mathematical point of view, even if you encountered another loss of a few thousand at KS (not that I would wish you to experience it), it would still not mean that the software is rigged, IMHO.

Also, if you do not use any steep progressions (you wrote your bets are from 1 USD to 5 USD), I think it is quite possible to experience a downswing and to lose 8k (especially with 5 USD bets).

To sum it up, I think your point of view should be that so far, your slots payout percentage has been way above 100 % on Playtech, since you are 4k USD up (if I get the numbers right from what you have posted).

Best of luck in your life!

I agree with your post. I have NO issues with the playtech software, and I enjoy the games (though I wish there was more of them). I simply have an issue with one particular playtech casino. I had never said at any stage that I felt the software itself was rigged. I think though that each casino has a level of 'manipulation' of the payout ratio on a given day, week or month.

 

[praytech]

Praytech i am helping you - I am giving you the cold hard statistical facts that we have on your game play . This is taken directly form the Playtech system .

If you wish i can and will send a screenshot of this to the Casinomeister for verification of this data

You are welcome to post the data that you get from my CRM team as well seeing as you posted my PMs .

I also think that there is not much more to be said re this - you seem bent on tarnishing the good reputation of KS because you had an unlucky streak .

I am sorry that you lost but that is why they call it gambling .

As for your statement



I dont think that i need to point out that winners hardly ever draw publicity to themselves .

I do wonder though if there is some other force at play here . Ever the Cynic i am .

Other force? OMG! What? A conspiracy? There seems to be only one conspiracy here, buddy. That is taking my $8,000 ! If you want any justification for motive, how about that for starters!

I got the stats now from the pitboss, Riaan, which I will include in the next post.

 

[praytech]

The Statistics from King Solomons

Okay, here are the stats that KS sent through. The first lot read like this:

Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 00:13:59 - Wagered $304.30 and payouts of $254.00 and your Payout ratio: 83.47%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 03:05:23 - Wagered $2,781.75 and payouts of $2,329.00 and your Payout ratio: 83.72%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 07:45:36 - Wagered $540.04 and payouts of $311.00 and your Payout ratio: 57.59%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 08:41:10 - Wagered $1,729.52 and payouts of $1,170.75 and your Payout ratio: 67.70%

Then there are others they attached to the email in the form of a spreadsheet. I looked at the spreadsheet, did some VERY simple sums (ie.. total bet divided by the total games played) and noticed a significant anomaly that I think should be clear to anyone (the total games x set bets per spin do not add up correctly)

Game # games Total bets Total wins Payout %
Forest of Wonder 5599 31,497.25 26,851.18 85.20%
Keno 4958 6,728.25 4,482.25 66.60%
Diamond Valley $1 4252 20,681.10 20,811.00 100.60%
Bonus Bears 3454 27,639.00 22,124.85 80.00%
Wallstreet 5Reel 10c2865 1,196.42 1,180.40 98.70%
What's Cooking 1569 5,626.80 5,091.00 90.50%
Queen of Pyramids 1421 3,062.81 3,788.25 123.70%
Fruit Mania 25c 1416 1,718.39 1,972.00 114.80%
Alien Hunter 1177 10,808.50 13,213.70 122.30%
Thrill Seekers 942 10,977.50 10,776.65 98.20%
Football Rules 812 7,951.25 8,359.50 105.10%
Queen of Pyramids 15c 767 980.99 1,187.55 121.10%
Lotto Madness 533 5,590.00 4,133.75 73.90%
A Night Out 512 8,926.00 8,104.00 90.80%
Standard Fivereel 402 367.17 246.3 67.10%
Golden Tour 379 7,570.00 7,882.00 104.10%
Beach Life 114 1,076.70 1,013.00 94.10%
Ultimate Fighters 105 624 541.5 86.80%

I play a lot more games than this! Anyway, the point remains. The figures do not add up, just more proof that these figures are completely fictitious. So I emailed them stating:

Diamond Valley is a set bet of $5 per spin. You recorded $20,681.10 as total bet, yet at $5 per spin, the total for that bet amount would be 4,136 spins, not the 4,252 you have in the spreadsheet.

Fruitmania is a set bet of $1.25 per spin. You recorded $1,718.39 as total bet, yet at $1.25 per spin, the total for that amount would be 1,374 spins.

Beach Life is a set bet of $10 per spin. You recorded $1076.7 and 114 spins. The total should be 107 spins.

Wall Street is a set 50c per spin. You recorded $1196 and 2865 spins. The total should be 2392 spins.

Their own statistics show now that they are engaged in at the very LEAST, poor accounting. At the very most, deceptive conduct.

 

[praytech]

It should be noted that at no stage, in my entire history of gambling, have I EVER played anything except the maximum number of lines in ANY game, with the sole exception of a 5-reel King Solomon Slot Game that I use to zero my balance (at either 5c,4c,3c, 2c or 1c per spin for enough spins to zero the balance (usually 1 or 2 spins).

 

[praytech]

Complaint Resolved

Okay, it has been explained to me by the pit boss that the discrepancy between the total bet and the number of games is, in fact, the free spins OR bonus round features. He has since provided me with evidence of this, as well as screenshots showing the payout ratio.

I have to keep my payout details confidential, but it appears I was mistaken. My return to player is not quite 97%, but as someone put it already, thats called gambling.

I withdraw my complaint, and thank everyone for their input and apologise for wasting everyone's time.

 

[zuga]

so much fuss for nothing

 

[Wagerjunction]

Figures

Praytech you are engaging in very poor conduct at the moment and i am going to advise you to desist in making slanderous comments on a public forum

The stats that you showed were for your last 4 sessions at the Casino something that you conveniently forgot to point out

Your overall ratio as per the email and i quote

Justin, I received your complaint regarding the odds, and also what you have been informed by the support desk regarding the payout ratio being 97%.

Firstly, as to the 97% you were informed about, please note this is our casino average payout ratio, and player's payout ratios can sometimes differ from this, but overall will be roughly the same as the global payout ratio.

I would like to take this opportunity to give you some more information on your recent game play and also payout ratios.

I went through your last 4 sessions on the casino which ran from 2008-06-03 00:13:59 to 2008-06-03 10:21:00. During these 4 sessions you wagered the following amounts per session:

Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 00:13:59 - Wagered $304.30 and payouts of $254.00 and your Payout ratio: 83.47%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 03:05:23 - Wagered $2,781.75 and payouts of $2,329.00 and your Payout ratio: 83.72%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 07:45:36 - Wagered $540.04 and payouts of $311.00 and your Payout ratio: 57.59%
Sessions Start: 2008-06-03 08:41:10 - Wagered $1,729.52 and payouts of $1,170.75 and your Payout ratio: 67.70%

As we can see from the above the odds were against you and I agree fully with you that these session it does seem that the odds were against you.

I then had a look at your total account gameplay, and the figures for this:
Total Wagers: $154,645.30
Total Wins: $142,502.78
Overall Payout Ratio: 92.2%

I have also attached a excel sheet indicating all games you have played with us, showing their respective totals and payout ratios. I have only included games where you wagered more than 100 games. Overall you will notice that your payout ratio is not bad at all.

I would like to let you know that I have also added a $300 bonus to your account as a small token of our appreciation of your loyalty.

It should be quite clear to you but perhaps your intention is merely to slag us off . Now i will get the guys to get you all of the game play - i am not sure why they did not do it the first time around but i am steaming now re this so they will do what i want .

You are merely using portions of the email that suit your argument and omitting the rest .

 

[Wagerjunction]

Posted to Quickly

Apologies - Praytech you must have been posting while i was posting on the matter and i did not speak to my CRM guys re this before posting.

Zuga I dont think its a waste of time - i think it is necessary for all Casinos to be as transparent as possible and where there are areas of doubt and unceretainty this forum allows people to ask questions that can be answered

By the way Bryan - congratulations on your 10th Anniversary -

Saying that - i want to advise all that there will be a new person taking over my responsibilities on this board as from today .

I will be back on the board in my personal capacity but this partricular complaint has highlighted the fact that it should not be myself dealing with players but rather people who are dedicated to Player Support within the orginization .

Have a great day guys and speak to you all soon

Regards
Greg

 

[zuga]

Zuga I dont think its a waste of time - i think it is necessary for all Casinos to be as transparent as possible and where there are areas of doubt and unceretainty this forum allows people to ask questions that can be answered

i never thought of this as waste of time...anyway glad to see this matter resolved.

 

[juuso]

King Solomon's was nice to send me a letter with free 30€ bonus to celebrate their 10th birthday last week. Played a bit, met 25x wagering requirements and won max. 100€. Cash out required a 50€ deposit and playing it 2X in any game. Black Jack was allowed. Decent offer. Hundred for little work.

Cash out was painless and fast.

I like Playtech as my main desktop OS is Linux and their browser version works great on it. Black Jack play speed is spectacular as well.

 

[azzy]

I deposit 30€ to King solomons and cashed out over 1400€.. Those games are just pretty high variance games. U can win big or loose all...

 

[azzy]

I liked that they had very good support and fast cashouts. Next day after withdrawn they paid.