KING NEPTUNES Is Withholding My Winnings!

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piecar

Dormant account
Joined
May 17, 2006
Location
Arizona
King Neptunes is not paying me almost 8,000 GBP.

I read the Terms & Conditions at King Neptunes website and the only video pokers on the list of excluded games were Aces video poker and jacks or better video poker. Deuces Wild was NOT on the list of excluded games in regards to the bonus money.

I deposited and played on April 1st in the evening.

I played slots, cyber stud poker, tri card poker, and deuces wild video poker.

They sent me an email that they changed their terms at midnight on March 31st.

Here is a copy of the email they sent me:


Hello xxxxxx

We carried out a thorough investigation to ensure, like we also do, that we deliver what we promise. When you claim a welcome/sign up bonus, you are advised to read the Terms & Conditions of that bonus when you claim it. We never change the Terms & Conditions of any promotion without advising our customers accordingly. We can not notify would-be customers, because we do not know who they are if they have not registered yet. The new Terms & Conditions took effect on March 31 at midnight; you registered, made your first deposit and claimed your bonus in the evening of April 1. It was your responsibility to read the Terms & Conditions that govern the 200 bonus when you claimed the bonus.

You played on Deuces Wild 10 Play Power Poker, a restricted game, with the 200 welcome bonus you claimed, before you played on any other games, including any appropriate games. Since you accumulated winnings with your game play on an excluded game, these winnings have been deemed null and void. Because you continued to play with these void credits to accumulate your additional winnings, all of your winnings have been deemed null and void. We have removed your totaled 7,794 in winnings from your withdrawal and your account balance based on our terms and conditions for the welcome bonus.

We are sorry this is not the answer you wish to hear.

You will notice that we copied eCOGRA on this issue. We have earned our reputation by always conducting our business ethically and with integrity. We are also strong advocates for responsible and regulated gaming; were one of the 1st casino group's to earn the eCOGRA Seal of approval (
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
) and have received numerous independent awards.

Regards

xxxxxx



I told them, "Look, I saw different terms and I played by the rules so why are you doing this to me?!?"

I had more than 8000 GBP in my account and they reduced my balance to ZERO. I don't know if what they are saying about the Deuces Wild is true or not; all I remember is that I before I played only Aces and Jacks or Better video pokers were excluded, but deuces wild was okay.

The only thing I am guilty of is an honest mistake.

Even if they are right and they changed terms hours before I deposited and played, is it right to just void my winnings? Where is the goodwill? Someone wins big at your casino and you just decide just not to pay them?

King Neptunes told me that they informed eCogra of the situation. I haven't heard anything from eCogra so I assume that they are siding with King Neptunes. But I think eCogra is a sham anyway, especially after reading all of the complaints against them in the online forums...

If anyone can help me with this, I could sure use the help.
 

ewhitaker

Registered
Joined
Apr 26, 2006
Location
Wisconsin
This does not seem right at all!

I have played in many online casinos with welcome bonuses and never heard anything like this!

Even if Deuces Power Poker was an excluded game, they could have told you that you can't make a withdrawl until you have met the terms meaning you would have had to wager more on slots or other included games. Your winnings should NEVER have been deemed null and void!

Bit of advice to anyone that plays casinos with bonuses. Don't apply for the bonus until you have run out of your own money first. That way if you win right away, you can withdraw your winnings with no worries on bonus conditions.
 

kenneth2816

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
Location
North Carolina
piecar:

I am assuming the e-mail you posted was perhaps from a later exchange with the casino since no mention was made of your deposit. Did you get your deposit refunded?

Secondly, you are technically bound by T&C on the date you actually deposit. There can be no possible way the casino COULD know that you were (as you say) unaware of T&C changes overnight.

Thirdly, you can verify ALL play via PlayCheck. I am confident you will find you DID play exactly as they say you did, thus validating the fact that your "restricted" winnings gave you an accumulated pot to further play NON restricted games.

If it were me, and I did get the deposit refunded, I would try to play it through again. Honest mistake or not, the casino is well within its bounds, and this particular group enjoys a very solid rep for being above board, IMHO. I personally deposited $100 at their sister casino, got the matching bonus, and cashed out a very sizeable win with zero problem.

My apologies if this reply seems unduly harsh to you.
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Location
UK
piecar said:
Even if they are right and they changed terms hours before I deposited and played, is it right to just void my winnings? Where is the goodwill? Someone wins big at your casino and you just decide just not to pay them?
Unfortunately the casino will almost certainly get away with this. eCOGRA will rule in their favour if the casino's actions are even vaguely covered in the terms and conditions (all the way to accepting the cover-all "bonus abuse" terms). To be fair to King Neptunes, though, the terms are pretty clear here (this is another trap for players to watch out for - at many casinos it's fine to play any games but they just don't count to the wr):
If you play any of the restricted games, which subsequently results in winnings, this play will not fulfill/complete the play through conditions. These winnings may be deemed null & void and will be removed/confiscated from your account balance or withdrawals at the sole discretion of Trident Entertainment Group.
That said, they have the discretion not to remove your winnings and in the light of the fact you played only hours after the terms changed I definitely think they should display some good will by restoring your balance and asking you to complete wagering if you haven't already.

Failing that, it'd be worth trying to confirm exactly when they did change the terms (perhaps some other player noticed?) - casinos often don't do this immediately and it's also possible your web browser didn't load the updated page.
 

nowinsituation

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 13, 2006
Location
Corpus christi
You are asking for help at the wrong place

piecar said:
King Neptunes is not paying me almost 8,000 GBP.

I read the Terms & Conditions at King Neptunes website and the only video pokers on the list of excluded games were Aces video poker and jacks or better video poker. Deuces Wild was NOT on the list of excluded games in regards to the bonus money.

I deposited and played on April 1st in the evening.

I played slots, cyber stud poker, tri card poker, and deuces wild video poker.

They sent me an email that they changed their terms at midnight on March 31st.

Here is a copy of the email they sent me:


Hello xxxxxx

We carried out a thorough investigation to ensure, like we also do, that we deliver what we promise. When you claim a welcome/sign up bonus, you are advised to read the Terms & Conditions of that bonus when you claim it. We never change the Terms & Conditions of any promotion without advising our customers accordingly. We can not notify would-be customers, because we do not know who they are if they have not registered yet. The new Terms & Conditions took effect on March 31 at midnight; you registered, made your first deposit and claimed your bonus in the evening of April 1. It was your responsibility to read the Terms & Conditions that govern the 200 bonus when you claimed the bonus.

You played on Deuces Wild 10 Play Power Poker, a restricted game, with the 200 welcome bonus you claimed, before you played on any other games, including any appropriate games. Since you accumulated winnings with your game play on an excluded game, these winnings have been deemed null and void. Because you continued to play with these void credits to accumulate your additional winnings, all of your winnings have been deemed null and void. We have removed your totaled 7,794 in winnings from your withdrawal and your account balance based on our terms and conditions for the welcome bonus.

We are sorry this is not the answer you wish to hear.

You will notice that we copied eCOGRA on this issue. We have earned our reputation by always conducting our business ethically and with integrity. We are also strong advocates for responsible and regulated gaming; were one of the 1st casino group's to earn the eCOGRA Seal of approval (
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
) and have received numerous independent awards.

Regards

xxxxxx



I told them, "Look, I saw different terms and I played by the rules so why are you doing this to me?!?"

I had more than 8000 GBP in my account and they reduced my balance to ZERO. I don't know if what they are saying about the Deuces Wild is true or not; all I remember is that I before I played only Aces and Jacks or Better video pokers were excluded, but deuces wild was okay.

The only thing I am guilty of is an honest mistake.

Even if they are right and they changed terms hours before I deposited and played, is it right to just void my winnings? Where is the goodwill? Someone wins big at your casino and you just decide just not to pay them?

King Neptunes told me that they informed eCogra of the situation. I haven't heard anything from eCogra so I assume that they are siding with King Neptunes. But I think eCogra is a sham anyway, especially after reading all of the complaints against them in the online forums...

If anyone can help me with this, I could sure use the help.
I know where you are coming from. You should get paid! The only reason they put terms in there is so they dont have to pay you. You are asking for help at the wrong place if your asking the guy that runs this place because he has casinos out there that are screwing people as well. He may say and make it look like he is trying to help but trust me he is not on any of us players side he is one of them in Descries. I have casinos over the Internet that owe me over $200,000.00. The best Casinos to play at are the ones that say they will pay the same day. Spanish Luck Casino pays just go talk to Tex and tell him COS**** sent you he will take good care of you. Black Dog Casino is another that will pay you the same day. The Casinos that have to hold your withdraws for days, do not trust them. I am thinking about opening up a web site to help people and advise them of what to look for. I have lost over a 1/2 million over the Internet and have a lot of experience. I dont plan on owning any of them and you dam sure cant trust someone that is playing both sides. I mean look at the picture of the meister, that tells everything.
 
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Pinababy69

RIP Lisa
Joined
Oct 15, 2004
Location
Toronto, Ontario - Canada
Black Dog? Spanish Luck? Man, you must be smoking some good shit in Corpus Christi there bud, lol.

nowinsituation said:
I mean look at the picture of the meister, that tells everything.
And whatever the hell that's supposed to mean, I don't have a clue. Make sure you give me a link to this website you're going to open, I'm always up for some comic relief.

Edited to add that an attitude like you're displaying sure isn't gonna help the original poster in any way. Piecar, have you PM'd the Trident rep here and explained the situation? Not sure if it will do any good, but it's certainly worth a try. God, I'm still shaking my head at this guy, what a great post, ha ha ha.
 

Vesuvio

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 23, 2004
Location
UK
nowinsituation said:
You are asking for help at the wrong place if your asking the guy that runs this place because he has casinos out there that are screwing people as well.
Nowinsituation - don't derail a thread with absurd accusations. You'll just be rightly banned, but unfortunately in the mean time you're reducing the OP's chances of seeing any of his winnings.
 

elscrabinda

Full Member
PABnoaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Oxford
It really pains me to see King Neptunes in this forum and not the positive one. I've only ever had good experiences with them and to see them pulling this kind of stunt is a real shame.

Of course they're allowed to do it. I'm sure they've covered themselves well enough with their terms but for a group of this calibre sticking to terms should not be the issue. Trust is whats important and EXCLUDING games has no other purpose but to be able to confiscate winnings later. RESTRICT them, fine but do not exclude them unless you are actively picking a fight. The games he played did not have a player edge. He gained no advantage from playing them and to confiscate winnings on these grounds is pathetic.
 

GemG7

Dormant account
Joined
May 9, 2004
Location
US
nowinsituation said:
I know where you are coming from. You should get paid! The only reason they put terms in there is so they dont have to pay you. You are asking for help at the wrong place if your asking the guy that runs this place because he has casinos out there that are screwing people as well. He may say and make it look like he is trying to help but trust me he is not on any of us players side he is one of them in Descries. I have casinos over the Internet that owe me over $200,000.00. The best Casinos to play at are the ones that say they will pay the same day. Spanish Luck Casino pays just go talk to Tex and tell him COS48945 sent you he will take good care of you. Black Dog Casino is another that will pay you the same day. The Casinos that have to hold your withdraws for days, do not trust them. I am thinking about opening up a web site to help people and advise them of what to look for. I have lost over a 1/2 million over the Internet and have a lot of experience. I dont plan on owning any of them and you dam sure cant trust someone that is playing both sides. I mean look at the picture of the meister, that tells everything.
:lolup: :lolup: :lolup: :lolup:
 

Slotster!

I predict a riot.
CAG
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Location
Location, Location!
elscrabinda said:
It really pains me to see King Neptunes in this forum and not the positive one. I've only ever had good experiences with them and to see them pulling this kind of stunt is a real shame.

Of course they're allowed to do it. I'm sure they've covered themselves well enough with their terms but for a group of this calibre sticking to terms should not be the issue. Trust is whats important and EXCLUDING games has no other purpose but to be able to confiscate winnings later. RESTRICT them, fine but do not exclude them unless you are actively picking a fight. The games he played did not have a player edge. He gained no advantage from playing them and to confiscate winnings on these grounds is pathetic.
Well put... The whole March 31st thing, and the exclusion/confiscation... They may well not be doing anything 'rogue', but you just wouldn't play there, would you... Not when you know you wouldn't get this hassle elsewhere.
 

elscrabinda

Full Member
PABnoaccred
PABnorogue
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Location
Oxford
Slotster! said:
Well put... The whole March 31st thing, and the exclusion/confiscation... They may well not be doing anything 'rogue', but you just wouldn't play there, would you... Not when you know you wouldn't get this hassle elsewhere.

But this is why its such a shame. We're rapidly running out of places where you CAN play and know you won't get hassle. I considered King Neptunes to be pretty much the best group out there and if trust is lost in them then it is pretty serious industry wide
 

Sodax77

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Location
EU|FI
Vesuvio said:
....the fact you played only hours after the terms changed I definitely think they should display some good will by restoring your balance and asking you to complete wagering if you haven't already...
Exactly!

King Neptune's / Trident Entertainment Group have a very good reputation, and i am suprised to see this complaint.

But if they don't know anything about "good will" or they don't offer any solution,
or/and they will start fighting with eCogra :)rolleyes: ), etc.
Then i will say goodbye to their group
 

mikepipe

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Location
still progressing
Thats fantastic!

nowinsituation said:
I know where you are coming from. You should get paid! The only reason they put terms in there is so they dont have to pay you. You are asking for help at the wrong place if your asking the guy that runs this place because he has casinos out there that are screwing people as well. He may say and make it look like he is trying to help but trust me he is not on any of us players side he is one of them in Descries. I have casinos over the Internet that owe me over $200,000.00. The best Casinos to play at are the ones that say they will pay the same day. Spanish Luck Casino pays just go talk to Tex and tell him COS48945 sent you he will take good care of you. Black Dog Casino is another that will pay you the same day. The Casinos that have to hold your withdraws for days, do not trust them. I am thinking about opening up a web site to help people and advise them of what to look for. I have lost over a 1/2 million over the Internet and have a lot of experience. I dont plan on owning any of them and you dam sure cant trust someone that is playing both sides. I mean look at the picture of the meister, that tells everything.
what do your problems have to do with his not getting the winning?
Maybe you are a big fish in the casino world - but why dont ou use your sharp teeth in helping this guy?
I bet my next 5 scatters win that this was your last post here:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

maxlevine

Webmaster
webmeister
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Location
Montreal
You may look up Bonus offers and Terms & Conditions to compare with other casinos before deciding to play but once you've decided to deposit, you must return on their site and c&p the rules; or at the very least, make sure nothing has changed. Based on the email, you have deposited on the evening of April 1st while rules were changed at midnight on March 31st. That's the next day. Promotions don't last forever and rules may change. I could go to a land-based casino and hear of a promotion without using it. If the following day, I return to use it but the offer is not valid anymore or the rules pertaining that offer would differ, what exactly would their obligations be? Whose responsibility is it?

In the case of King Neptunes, to claim the bonus you have to return to the website and enter a code. You had the opportunity to look up the rules then.

"Wagering requirements and game exclusions apply according to the date you claim your bonus and not the date you registered at the casino."

Although this does not apply to you since you've registered and deposited the same day, it is written to avoid such confusion. You have to abide by the rules stated at the moment you make your deposit.

"If you play any of the restricted games, which subsequently results in winnings, this play will not fulfill/complete the play through conditions. These winnings may be deemed null & void and will be removed/confiscated from your account balance or withdrawals at the sole discretion of Trident Entertainment Group." (my emphasis)

Have you won more than $8,000 playing Deuces Wild and other restricted games? If not, your account balance shouldn't go down to zero.

Slotster and Elscrabinda, the casino doesn't have to give bonuses. And when they do, they don't have to be the most generous. They can put up the rules they want without being considered rogue. And I would play there or anywhere else I know I will get paid if I follow the rules. 32Red had the worst initial deposit bonus and rules (they've improved on it now) and no one would claim this was a rogue operation. They've also changed their minimum wagering on Club Rouge monthly bonus (I believe it was $3600; now at $5000). Could I withdraw claiming the previous rules? You weren't allowed to play any Progressive slots before the minimum requirements were fulfilled; I don't see that in their T&Cs anymore but what if they had modified their rules the other way around and I would have won a jackpot in a Progressive? Would it be fair to give it to me considering I broke their rules? Again, what would be reasonable? 24 hours? 48 hours? 7 days? Who decides? Sorry guys but this is a question of opinion on the generosity of a bonus and its rules, not of roguedom behaviour. If you don't like the T&Cs, don't use the bonus. Piecar could get something back as an exception.

Hey look! My post is pro-casino. I must be chummy with the operator ;)

I know this is disappointing, Piecar. But despite what the one hostile poster wrote, Bryan Bailey will give it a shot if you file a PAB. But your first step should be to PM the Trident rep and discuss the matter with him, as Pinababy has suggested. Avoid antagonism and see if you couldn't come up with a settlement you'd be happy with.

Good luck.

Max
 

jenn1381

Meister Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
Canada
I've never really understood the whole restricted and excluded games. Perhaps I don't understand because I really only play slots for real funds, and poker for free. I'm not a big video poker fan, or any table game fan. Does the player have an advantage playing these games? Maybe someone can enlighten me :confused:

That being said, to me, changing conditions and not letting the players know shouldn't be allowed. I completely agree that it's the players responsibility to read the T&C's prior to playing any games, but it seems to me that these T&C's will just change tomorrow anyways! What if you were to deposit on March 15th, play for a bit.. go to bed, sleep 8 hours.. get up, and play some more. But the T&C's changed overnight, and now video poker is excluded. Which T&C's are you bound by? The current ones? Do we need to read them before ANY session in which we've claim a bonus, all the time?! I read them once and assume they will still be the same. Maybe I need to change that to avoid getting screwed.

I agree that this casino should show some class and good faith here. Even if they give back the winnings and place a WR on them on included games. To me, taking away everything should be nothing short of illegal. I guess Casino's rule though, and can do whatever they please.
 

tennis_balls

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 18, 2006
Location
Albuquerque, NM
This situation doesn't surprise me at all. I don't know why Neptune's even offers a bonus since their terms and exclusions are so many and varied.

These guys must really take care of the affiliates given the amount of praise they receive here.
 

maxlevine

Webmaster
webmeister
Joined
Dec 7, 2004
Location
Montreal
tennis_balls said:
...These guys must really take care of the affiliates given the amount of praise they receive here.
I would like to point out that I am not an affiliate of Trident group and that I've only played once at their casinos. Don't need personal benefits to be able to see that they haven't done anything wrong. Based on your reasoning, one would assume that all opinions are biased. Including yours.

Max
 

jetset

RIP Brian
CAG
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
Sensible posts - both of them, Max.

This is a reputable group with a fair and professional management, and as we have all so frequently commented, the T&Cs in force at the time of deposit and wager are those that count.
 

thelawnet

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 4, 2005
Location
UK
jetset said:
This is a reputable group with a fair and professional management, and as we have all so frequently commented, the T&Cs in force at the time of deposit and wager are those that count.
This is not really all that fair and professional now though is it.

The 'if you play any of these games we will confiscate all your money' clause is a particularly egregious one, and one that most reputable casinos steer well clear of.

Clearly he should have read the terms when he signed up, but you can't help feeling that this situation would not have arisen at a truly regulated and customer-focused casino such as Ladbrokes.

It is very sad when casinos feel they can operate an 'oops, you made a mistake, now all your money belongs to us HA HA HA' policy.

Certainly it is not exactly encouraging for this player to go back in the future, but I believe the decision has been made on a callous 'this player is unlikely to make us that much in profit', so better just seize his winnings.

Players make mistakes, and it is a mark of a truly reputable, fair and professional group that they do not exploit them.

Yes it costs money for the casino not to enforce every clause and subclause to their letter, but through such decisions reputations are built.
 
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